Making a Murderer (Crime-Docu similar to West Memphis Three case)

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  • ldent42ldent42 NYCPosts: 7,843
    Does the theme song remind anyone else of the Requiem for a Dream soundtrack?
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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 27,196
    I came into watching this assuming he was guilty. I am not convinced that he is innocent, but a couple things stick out...

    The vial obviously

    Why would he move bones around?

    Where is the blood?

    How did the sheriff call in the plate number like he was looking at it?

    This guy needs to be in jail.

    image
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019

    I came into watching this assuming he was guilty. I am not convinced that he is innocent, but a couple things stick out...

    The vial obviously

    Why would he move bones around?

    Where is the blood?

    How did the sheriff call in the plate number like he was looking at it?

    This guy needs to be in jail.

    image

    Yeah the vial is interesting...but the blood test closed the door on that even though there is still some controversy

    Moving bones: I think the cops would say that the body wasn't completely destroyed so he moved it to a bigger fire.

    The plate: I'm still stuck on why this is an issue. It seems to me that the cop was given the plate number and he just called it in to verify that the system matched the description that he was given. As a missing person they would have put out info on her and her vehicle. Maybe he was just making sure that the plate matched the description?
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

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  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    edited January 2016

    I came into watching this assuming he was guilty. I am not convinced that he is innocent, but a couple things stick out...

    The vial obviously

    Why would he move bones around?

    Where is the blood?

    How did the sheriff call in the plate number like he was looking at it?

    This guy needs to be in jail.

    image

    Yeah the vial is interesting...but the blood test closed the door on that even though there is still some controversy

    Moving bones: I think the cops would say that the body wasn't completely destroyed so he moved it to a bigger fire.

    The plate: I'm still stuck on why this is an issue. It seems to me that the cop was given the plate number and he just called it in to verify that the system matched the description that he was given. As a missing person they would have put out info on her and her vehicle. Maybe he was just making sure that the plate matched the description?
    Blood test was inconclusive. Didn't show stabilizer but doesn't mean it wasn't there.

    Not going to say Avery is innocent but state messed up big time. The key! Room Searched many times even emptying dresser and then months later cop with interest in case finds it? None of victims DNA on key!! Come on. The vial being pierced by syringe?!?!
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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 27,196

    I came into watching this assuming he was guilty. I am not convinced that he is innocent, but a couple things stick out...

    The vial obviously

    Why would he move bones around?

    Where is the blood?

    How did the sheriff call in the plate number like he was looking at it?

    This guy needs to be in jail.

    image

    Yeah the vial is interesting...but the blood test closed the door on that even though there is still some controversy

    Moving bones: I think the cops would say that the body wasn't completely destroyed so he moved it to a bigger fire.

    The plate: I'm still stuck on why this is an issue. It seems to me that the cop was given the plate number and he just called it in to verify that the system matched the description that he was given. As a missing person they would have put out info on her and her vehicle. Maybe he was just making sure that the plate matched the description?
    I will have to go back and watch, but that's not what he said when he was questioned on the plate, was it? he didn't have an explanation as to how he knew the plate and model, from what I remember...
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • I came into watching this assuming he was guilty. I am not convinced that he is innocent, but a couple things stick out...

    The vial obviously

    Why would he move bones around?

    Where is the blood?

    How did the sheriff call in the plate number like he was looking at it?

    This guy needs to be in jail.

    image

    Yeah the vial is interesting...but the blood test closed the door on that even though there is still some controversy

    Moving bones: I think the cops would say that the body wasn't completely destroyed so he moved it to a bigger fire.

    The plate: I'm still stuck on why this is an issue. It seems to me that the cop was given the plate number and he just called it in to verify that the system matched the description that he was given. As a missing person they would have put out info on her and her vehicle. Maybe he was just making sure that the plate matched the description?
    I think his demeanour as he was being pressed on the plate issue raised suspicions for me.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,553
    there is no cussin' way that avery killed halbach ...

    * he kills her with a knife and gun while chaining her so he and Brenden can rape her and there is absolutely no dna of hers in the house or garage at all!??
    * they don't find anything linking him to her death until fucking Link (who's on the hook for a lawsuit) finds a key pretty much in the wide open?
    * a key that miraculously has ONLY Avery's dna!? like no part of her dna is on her car key ...
    * he somehow manages to kill her but removes any evidence of her dna from his house which would take some friggin' tony stark brains but then decides to park his car in his salvage yard!??
    * Avery would kill someone that he actually tells people is coming to his property that day just before he is gonna get paid out large and put at least a couple of the fuckers who screwed him before in a lot of hurt (financially)

    c'mon peeps ... you can read all the shit about how Avery was a this or that ... it doesn't matter one iota ... this is the Wisconsin establishment fucking over someone they don't like ... plain and simple ...

    the best line in the documentary was that cussin' judge in his sentencing ... paraphrasing here ... but he says that he finds it incredible that Avery would do such a thing with the impending windfall in riches about to come his way! ... if you weren't a corrupt judge - you would know that it's incredulous because it's absolutely not true!

    this is exactly the same thing as the WM3 because there the Arkansas justice system also refused to own up to its own shortfalls and corruptness - hence the Alford plea ... it's the same thing here ... any kind of admittance on Avery opens up the justice system and they would rather screw over innocent people than do that ...
  • polaris_x said:

    there is no cussin' way that avery killed halbach ...

    * he kills her with a knife and gun while chaining her so he and Brenden can rape her and there is absolutely no dna of hers in the house or garage at all!??
    * they don't find anything linking him to her death until fucking Link (who's on the hook for a lawsuit) finds a key pretty much in the wide open?
    * a key that miraculously has ONLY Avery's dna!? like no part of her dna is on her car key ...
    * he somehow manages to kill her but removes any evidence of her dna from his house which would take some friggin' tony stark brains but then decides to park his car in his salvage yard!??
    * Avery would kill someone that he actually tells people is coming to his property that day just before he is gonna get paid out large and put at least a couple of the fuckers who screwed him before in a lot of hurt (financially)

    c'mon peeps ... you can read all the shit about how Avery was a this or that ... it doesn't matter one iota ... this is the Wisconsin establishment fucking over someone they don't like ... plain and simple ...

    the best line in the documentary was that cussin' judge in his sentencing ... paraphrasing here ... but he says that he finds it incredible that Avery would do such a thing with the impending windfall in riches about to come his way! ... if you weren't a corrupt judge - you would know that it's incredulous because it's absolutely not true!

    this is exactly the same thing as the WM3 because there the Arkansas justice system also refused to own up to its own shortfalls and corruptness - hence the Alford plea ... it's the same thing here ... any kind of admittance on Avery opens up the justice system and they would rather screw over innocent people than do that ...

    Correct.

    Well... partially. You left out a whole pile of other stuff that would lend support to Avery as well, but I guess that would be unsportsmanlike.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • How about that very first composite sketch of Avery that was used to falsely convict him? The one that was nearly traced?

    Framed afterwards and proudly hung up on the wall.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,553

    How about that very first composite sketch of Avery that was used to falsely convict him? The one that was nearly traced?

    Framed afterwards and proudly hung up on the wall.

    Apparently perjury is not really a crime.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • ldent42ldent42 NYCPosts: 7,843
    A 70 year old dude against a runner though?

    I mean he don't exactly look like the picture of health.
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    It was 10 years ago....he may have lured her in by pretending his car was broken down or something. That's what the guy said in the interview.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,617
    This mans proximity to the crime (living only an hour away) is very interesting.
  • dignin said:

    This mans proximity to the crime (living only an hour away) is very interesting.
    Indeed.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,667
    this is the most plausible version I have heard... and it makes more sense than the prosecution's version IMO

    http://www.zimbio.com/Beyond+the+Tube/articles/k59WEAE-XDv/Genius+Making+Murderer+Fan+Theory+Ties+Up

    “The police didn’t kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property… freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he “calls” in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to “call” in… instead of “radio” in… the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn’t in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the “field’ on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4… 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm….

    This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically STFU about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn’s calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach’s car and then report to him immediately.

    What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don’t realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach’s car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadych’s idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach’s cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach’s cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find… but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach’s cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach’s cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

    By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ….and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn’t aware of the other’s involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach’s RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

    None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated… everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn’t fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn’t conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right… Imagine Scott Tadych’s confused and utter relief when Steve Avery’s blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery’s bedroom….. he must have been like…. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach’s murder…. “THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN” ….. We will see Scott, we will see…………………”

    This is probably the most credible theory I have come across so far. Notice how the events here not only make logical sense, but they also line up with how many of the parties involved behaved during the documentary i.e how Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas seemed like they knew more about what happened than they were leading on. As well as Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey’s bizarre hostility towards Steven Avery.

    I
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,553
    ^^^
    then the ex and brother would surely know that colborn lied on trial which means they should theoretically suspect that Steven Avery didn't kill Theresa ... so, why do they continue with the frame job?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 44,180
    edited January 2016
    Yikes. I'm only on episode 3, but DAMN. That first wrongful conviction is absolutely infuriating. It's mindboggling that all of those fucks in the Sheriff's office were found to have done no wrongdoing. Disgusting.

    The documentary inclines the viewer to assume Steven is innocent of the murder before any evidence is presented. I guess there wasn't any way around that though. The first injustice was what it was, and it easily makes the viewer feel defensive on behalf of Avery right from the get go. And the murder investigation starts off shady with the fact that Avery's lawyers were unable to even find out where he was being held, and enforcement refused to say what jail he was in. And why in the fuck were they interviewing him without his lawyers? It seems to me they were acting like he was guilty of the first crime when they went after him for the second.

    Oh, and that key in Avery's bedroom and the fact that those fucks from the Sheriff's office were indeed on the crime scene seems really, really shady.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
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  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,667
    polaris_x said:

    ^^^
    then the ex and brother would surely know that colborn lied on trial which means they should theoretically suspect that Steven Avery didn't kill Theresa ... so, why do they continue with the frame job?

    I think they would be under the impression that if the information got out that Coburn knew of the car earlier... the scene would have been compromised and Avery (who they still think is guilty) would be able to walk free on a procedural technicality
  • ldent42ldent42 NYCPosts: 7,843
    PJ_Soul said:

    Yikes. I'm only on episode 3, but DAMN. That first wrongful conviction is absolutely infuriating. It's mindboggling that all of those fucks in the Sheriff's office were found to have done no wrongdoing. Disgusting.

    The documentary inclines the viewer to assume Steven is innocent of the murder before any evidence is presented. I guess there wasn't any way around that though. The first injustice was what it was, and it easily makes the viewer feel defensive on behalf of Avery right from the get go. And the murder investigation starts off shady with the fact that Avery's lawyers were unable to even find out where he was being held, and enforcement refused to say what jail he was in. And why in the fuck were they interviewing him without his lawyers? It seems to me they were acting like he was guilty of the first crime when they went after him for the second.

    Oh, and that key in Avery's bedroom and the fact that those fucks from the Sheriff's office were indeed on the crime scene seems really, really shady.

    I think that's probably intentional, since in the US you're supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty" but as Avery's fancy later-on lawyers argue, that's impossible in his case due to the media coverage.

    I like parts of that theory, but what would be Scott and Bobby's motive for raping and killing Teresa though? Also who are Scott and Bobby again? If Bobby is Brendon's brother or something and knowing Brendon is going to be in Jail for another 30 years before the possibility of parole I think it's unlikely he wouldn't have cracked already.
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 44,180
    edited January 2016
    That "sign the 'say you're sorry' form" interview with Brendan is fucked.

    And whoa, Wtf at that cop who was recorded asking about the licence plate and seemed to have found the car 2 days before it was found by searchers (who seemed to have been told where to look maybe, though who knows).
    And then there is the vile of blood that was tampered with. And the keys that had been wiped of all but Steve's DNA. And Teresa's shady ex-boyfriend. :tired_face: This guy actually lost his case?? Huh?
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 44,180
    :anguished:

    Episode 7.

    I don't even think anything that happens from now on, barring something like video showing Avery committing the murder or burning the body, could convince me that this is a just conviction under the law. Reasonable doubt and police misconduct has been established a dozen different ways already.....
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,553
    edited January 2016
    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/steven-averys-lawyer-rips-apart-213000067.html

    he's getting out ... the only thing stopping him from getting out is the Wisconsin DOJ figuring how to save face and not lose all credibility ... probably considering Alford Plea ... like I said - Avery would already be out if the House of Cards wasn't stacked so high in this case ...
    Post edited by polaris_x on
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,617
    ‘Making a Murderer’ subject Steven Avery has ‘airtight alibi,’ lawyer says

    http://globalnews.ca/news/2563979/making-a-murderer-subject-steven-avery-has-airtight-alibi-lawyer-says/?sf22155593=1
  • Dr. DelightDr. Delight Posts: 10,975
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  • Amongst the AniAmongst the Ani @WobbiePosts: 7,755
    It's about time. That kid got fucked by the system.
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