Bernie Sanders for President

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

I get that Bernie wants to take his "revolution" to the convention, but he needs to stop lying to his supporters. It's over. Hillary has complete control. She owns the popular vote, the delegates, and the superdelegate count. The only thing Bernie is doing now is helping Trump. If that's his goal, then well played, Bernie.

I don't see how it would be helping Trump. The general election campaign isn't happening yet. Whether Bernie bows out now, or makes his point by staying in the race until the Dem nomination is ACTUALLY won, instead of fake-won the way the media wants it, it won't impact how the two ACTUAL nominees go head to head.

The general election campaigning is currently under way. The presumptive nominees have been decided, and both the presumptive nominees are focused on one another. So if Bernie keeps up his campaign against Hillary, that is providing fuel for Trump. It also essentially pits Hillary against Trump and Bernie. Bernie needs to help unite the party. The longer he battles Clinton, the more damage he's doing to the Dems chances in the general. His current fight against Clinton is an exercise in futility. If he plays nicely he can still have an influence on the party platform. But at this point he isn't and won't be the nominee. He needs to stop pretending.

Maybe Bernie knows something we don't know, I have no idea. But I really don't think that Bernie continuing to campaign will make those who wouldn't vote for Trump now change their minds. I honestly do not think that it will have the kind of impact you're suggesting. Also, I think that just on principle alone, Bernie has a good point. The way the media has played this nomination "announcement" is just plain wrong.

It may have been wrong but HRC didn't want it either. It doesn't make her any less the nominee.

The guy spent a month in California and lost by 12. He spent weeks in NY and got clobbered. He lost FL, VA, NC, OH, PA. These are the swing states. He lost pledged, super, and total vote. There is literally no argument for him not to concede, other than stubbornness or narcissism. He has the influence to shape the platform, but he will lose it if he doesn't drop by next week.

Well, it does actually make her less the nominee, because she's not the nominee until she is nominated!

I think there are a few arguments for him not to concede myself. I'm not saying that I agree with them in the long run (although do on principle if not in practice), but they are still valid arguments IMO. Perhaps stubbornness has something to do with it (which isn't always a bad thing), but I don't think narcissism does. And remember, you can't lose pledged or SD votes until you lose them. This is the main point. Until the convention, he hasn't lost those, and Hillary hasn't won them. I understand that predictions hold some water, but I don't feel like they're being handled as prediction anymore, which is a real problem.

I hear you but there's no practical argument for him not to concede. He knows the SD will not switch unless something cataclysmic happens. And if that does, he can put his name up, considering he has 1800 pledged delegates. There's nothing that precludes that. Staying in may make his hard core supporters happy, but not helping the team.

benjs

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

I get that Bernie wants to take his "revolution" to the convention, but he needs to stop lying to his supporters. It's over. Hillary has complete control. She owns the popular vote, the delegates, and the superdelegate count. The only thing Bernie is doing now is helping Trump. If that's his goal, then well played, Bernie.

I don't see how it would be helping Trump. The general election campaign isn't happening yet. Whether Bernie bows out now, or makes his point by staying in the race until the Dem nomination is ACTUALLY won, instead of fake-won the way the media wants it, it won't impact how the two ACTUAL nominees go head to head.

The general election campaigning is currently under way. The presumptive nominees have been decided, and both the presumptive nominees are focused on one another. So if Bernie keeps up his campaign against Hillary, that is providing fuel for Trump. It also essentially pits Hillary against Trump and Bernie. Bernie needs to help unite the party. The longer he battles Clinton, the more damage he's doing to the Dems chances in the general. His current fight against Clinton is an exercise in futility. If he plays nicely he can still have an influence on the party platform. But at this point he isn't and won't be the nominee. He needs to stop pretending.

Maybe Bernie knows something we don't know, I have no idea. But I really don't think that Bernie continuing to campaign will make those who wouldn't vote for Trump now change their minds. I honestly do not think that it will have the kind of impact you're suggesting. Also, I think that just on principle alone, Bernie has a good point. The way the media has played this nomination "announcement" is just plain wrong.

It may have been wrong but HRC didn't want it either. It doesn't make her any less the nominee.

The guy spent a month in California and lost by 12. He spent weeks in NY and got clobbered. He lost FL, VA, NC, OH, PA. These are the swing states. He lost pledged, super, and total vote. There is literally no argument for him not to concede, other than stubbornness or narcissism. He has the influence to shape the platform, but he will lose it if he doesn't drop by next week.

Well, it does actually make her less the nominee, because she's not the nominee until she is nominated!

I think there are a few arguments for him not to concede myself. I'm not saying that I agree with them in the long run (although do on principle if not in practice), but they are still valid arguments IMO. Perhaps stubbornness has something to do with it (which isn't always a bad thing), but I don't think narcissism does. And remember, you can't lose pledged or SD votes until you lose them. This is the main point. Until the convention, he hasn't lost those, and Hillary hasn't won them. I understand that predictions hold some water, but I don't feel like they're being handled as prediction anymore, which is a real problem.

I hear you but there's no practical argument for him not to concede. He knows the SD will not switch unless something cataclysmic happens. And if that does, he can put his name up, considering he has 1800 pledged delegates. There's nothing that precludes that. Staying in may make his hard core supporters happy, but not helping the team.

Any chance he's waiting to see if an indictment comes Clinton's way re: the email fiasco?

Jason P

Ledbetterman10 said:

Sanders reminds me of a football team that is losing by 30 points with 20 seconds to go, they complete a pass for a first down, and then they call time-out. "Sure we're beat and just wasting everybody's time...BUT HE HAVE 20 SECONDS LEFT AND WE'RE WITHIN OUR RIGHTS TO DO WHATEVER WE WANT WITH THOSE 20 SECONDS!"

The Democrat primary reminds me of a NFL team playing a college team and the college team kept the score close late into the 4th quarter.

Jason P

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

I get that Bernie wants to take his "revolution" to the convention, but he needs to stop lying to his supporters. It's over. Hillary has complete control. She owns the popular vote, the delegates, and the superdelegate count. The only thing Bernie is doing now is helping Trump. If that's his goal, then well played, Bernie.

I don't see how it would be helping Trump. The general election campaign isn't happening yet. Whether Bernie bows out now, or makes his point by staying in the race until the Dem nomination is ACTUALLY won, instead of fake-won the way the media wants it, it won't impact how the two ACTUAL nominees go head to head.

The general election campaigning is currently under way. The presumptive nominees have been decided, and both the presumptive nominees are focused on one another. So if Bernie keeps up his campaign against Hillary, that is providing fuel for Trump. It also essentially pits Hillary against Trump and Bernie. Bernie needs to help unite the party. The longer he battles Clinton, the more damage he's doing to the Dems chances in the general. His current fight against Clinton is an exercise in futility. If he plays nicely he can still have an influence on the party platform. But at this point he isn't and won't be the nominee. He needs to stop pretending.

Maybe Bernie knows something we don't know, I have no idea. But I really don't think that Bernie continuing to campaign will make those who wouldn't vote for Trump now change their minds. I honestly do not think that it will have the kind of impact you're suggesting. Also, I think that just on principle alone, Bernie has a good point. The way the media has played this nomination "announcement" is just plain wrong.

It may have been wrong but HRC didn't want it either. It doesn't make her any less the nominee.

The guy spent a month in California and lost by 12. He spent weeks in NY and got clobbered. He lost FL, VA, NC, OH, PA. These are the swing states. He lost pledged, super, and total vote. There is literally no argument for him not to concede, other than stubbornness or narcissism. He has the influence to shape the platform, but he will lose it if he doesn't drop by next week.

Well, it does actually make her less the nominee, because she's not the nominee until she is nominated!

I think there are a few arguments for him not to concede myself. I'm not saying that I agree with them in the long run (although do on principle if not in practice), but they are still valid arguments IMO. Perhaps stubbornness has something to do with it (which isn't always a bad thing), but I don't think narcissism does. And remember, you can't lose pledged or SD votes until you lose them. This is the main point. Until the convention, he hasn't lost those, and Hillary hasn't won them. I understand that predictions hold some water, but I don't feel like they're being handled as prediction anymore, which is a real problem.

I hear you but there's no practical argument for him not to concede. He knows the SD will not switch unless something cataclysmic happens. And if that does, he can put his name up, considering he has 1800 pledged delegates. There's nothing that precludes that. Staying in may make his hard core supporters happy, but not helping the team.

Any chance he's waiting to see if an indictment comes Clinton's way re: the email fiasco?

The Hail Mary pass!

jeffbr

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

I get that Bernie wants to take his "revolution" to the convention, but he needs to stop lying to his supporters. It's over. Hillary has complete control. She owns the popular vote, the delegates, and the superdelegate count. The only thing Bernie is doing now is helping Trump. If that's his goal, then well played, Bernie.

I don't see how it would be helping Trump. The general election campaign isn't happening yet. Whether Bernie bows out now, or makes his point by staying in the race until the Dem nomination is ACTUALLY won, instead of fake-won the way the media wants it, it won't impact how the two ACTUAL nominees go head to head.

The general election campaigning is currently under way. The presumptive nominees have been decided, and both the presumptive nominees are focused on one another. So if Bernie keeps up his campaign against Hillary, that is providing fuel for Trump. It also essentially pits Hillary against Trump and Bernie. Bernie needs to help unite the party. The longer he battles Clinton, the more damage he's doing to the Dems chances in the general. His current fight against Clinton is an exercise in futility. If he plays nicely he can still have an influence on the party platform. But at this point he isn't and won't be the nominee. He needs to stop pretending.

Maybe Bernie knows something we don't know, I have no idea. But I really don't think that Bernie continuing to campaign will make those who wouldn't vote for Trump now change their minds. I honestly do not think that it will have the kind of impact you're suggesting. Also, I think that just on principle alone, Bernie has a good point. The way the media has played this nomination "announcement" is just plain wrong.

It may have been wrong but HRC didn't want it either. It doesn't make her any less the nominee.

The guy spent a month in California and lost by 12. He spent weeks in NY and got clobbered. He lost FL, VA, NC, OH, PA. These are the swing states. He lost pledged, super, and total vote. There is literally no argument for him not to concede, other than stubbornness or narcissism. He has the influence to shape the platform, but he will lose it if he doesn't drop by next week.

Well, it does actually make her less the nominee, because she's not the nominee until she is nominated!

I think there are a few arguments for him not to concede myself. I'm not saying that I agree with them in the long run (although do on principle if not in practice), but they are still valid arguments IMO. Perhaps stubbornness has something to do with it (which isn't always a bad thing), but I don't think narcissism does. And remember, you can't lose pledged or SD votes until you lose them. This is the main point. Until the convention, he hasn't lost those, and Hillary hasn't won them. I understand that predictions hold some water, but I don't feel like they're being handled as prediction anymore, which is a real problem.

I hear you but there's no practical argument for him not to concede. He knows the SD will not switch unless something cataclysmic happens. And if that does, he can put his name up, considering he has 1800 pledged delegates. There's nothing that precludes that. Staying in may make his hard core supporters happy, but not helping the team.

Any chance he's waiting to see if an indictment comes Clinton's way re: the email fiasco?

He doesn't need to wait for that. He can suspend his campaign, work to further party goals, and if Hillary gets spanked prior to the convention, he can still step in with his delegates and be the guy.

Even his advisors (including the ONLY US Senator in his camp) are telling him it is time to get real:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/06/08/top-supporters-of-bernie-sanders-gently-tell-him-its-time/
“Once a candidate has won a majority of the pledged delegates and a majority of the popular vote, which Secretary Clinton has now done, we have our nominee,” Merkley, who is Sanders’ sole supporter in the Senate, told me. “This is the moment when we need to start bringing parts of the party together so they can go into the convention with locked arms and go out of the convention unified into the general election.”

Jearlpam0925

jeffbr said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

I get that Bernie wants to take his "revolution" to the convention, but he needs to stop lying to his supporters. It's over. Hillary has complete control. She owns the popular vote, the delegates, and the superdelegate count. The only thing Bernie is doing now is helping Trump. If that's his goal, then well played, Bernie.

I don't see how it would be helping Trump. The general election campaign isn't happening yet. Whether Bernie bows out now, or makes his point by staying in the race until the Dem nomination is ACTUALLY won, instead of fake-won the way the media wants it, it won't impact how the two ACTUAL nominees go head to head.

The general election campaigning is currently under way. The presumptive nominees have been decided, and both the presumptive nominees are focused on one another. So if Bernie keeps up his campaign against Hillary, that is providing fuel for Trump. It also essentially pits Hillary against Trump and Bernie. Bernie needs to help unite the party. The longer he battles Clinton, the more damage he's doing to the Dems chances in the general. His current fight against Clinton is an exercise in futility. If he plays nicely he can still have an influence on the party platform. But at this point he isn't and won't be the nominee. He needs to stop pretending.

Maybe Bernie knows something we don't know, I have no idea. But I really don't think that Bernie continuing to campaign will make those who wouldn't vote for Trump now change their minds. I honestly do not think that it will have the kind of impact you're suggesting. Also, I think that just on principle alone, Bernie has a good point. The way the media has played this nomination "announcement" is just plain wrong.

It may have been wrong but HRC didn't want it either. It doesn't make her any less the nominee.

The guy spent a month in California and lost by 12. He spent weeks in NY and got clobbered. He lost FL, VA, NC, OH, PA. These are the swing states. He lost pledged, super, and total vote. There is literally no argument for him not to concede, other than stubbornness or narcissism. He has the influence to shape the platform, but he will lose it if he doesn't drop by next week.

Well, it does actually make her less the nominee, because she's not the nominee until she is nominated!

I think there are a few arguments for him not to concede myself. I'm not saying that I agree with them in the long run (although do on principle if not in practice), but they are still valid arguments IMO. Perhaps stubbornness has something to do with it (which isn't always a bad thing), but I don't think narcissism does. And remember, you can't lose pledged or SD votes until you lose them. This is the main point. Until the convention, he hasn't lost those, and Hillary hasn't won them. I understand that predictions hold some water, but I don't feel like they're being handled as prediction anymore, which is a real problem.

I hear you but there's no practical argument for him not to concede. He knows the SD will not switch unless something cataclysmic happens. And if that does, he can put his name up, considering he has 1800 pledged delegates. There's nothing that precludes that. Staying in may make his hard core supporters happy, but not helping the team.

Any chance he's waiting to see if an indictment comes Clinton's way re: the email fiasco?

He doesn't need to wait for that. He can suspend his campaign, work to further party goals, and if Hillary gets spanked prior to the convention, he can still step in with his delegates and be the guy.

Even his advisors (including the ONLY US Senator in his camp) are telling him it is time to get real:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/06/08/top-supporters-of-bernie-sanders-gently-tell-him-its-time/
“Once a candidate has won a majority of the pledged delegates and a majority of the popular vote, which Secretary Clinton has now done, we have our nominee,” Merkley, who is Sanders’ sole supporter in the Senate, told me. “This is the moment when we need to start bringing parts of the party together so they can go into the convention with locked arms and go out of the convention unified into the general election.”

Exactly.

I really get the feeling, though, that he's just keeping his supporters riled up to pivot his rhetoric towards supporting Clinton. He was given, what 4, 5 seats on the Democratic platform? I can't think this was done without a modicum of goodwill no matter where this was going win, lose (mostly lose), or draw.

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

I get that Bernie wants to take his "revolution" to the convention, but he needs to stop lying to his supporters. It's over. Hillary has complete control. She owns the popular vote, the delegates, and the superdelegate count. The only thing Bernie is doing now is helping Trump. If that's his goal, then well played, Bernie.

I don't see how it would be helping Trump. The general election campaign isn't happening yet. Whether Bernie bows out now, or makes his point by staying in the race until the Dem nomination is ACTUALLY won, instead of fake-won the way the media wants it, it won't impact how the two ACTUAL nominees go head to head.

The general election campaigning is currently under way. The presumptive nominees have been decided, and both the presumptive nominees are focused on one another. So if Bernie keeps up his campaign against Hillary, that is providing fuel for Trump. It also essentially pits Hillary against Trump and Bernie. Bernie needs to help unite the party. The longer he battles Clinton, the more damage he's doing to the Dems chances in the general. His current fight against Clinton is an exercise in futility. If he plays nicely he can still have an influence on the party platform. But at this point he isn't and won't be the nominee. He needs to stop pretending.

Maybe Bernie knows something we don't know, I have no idea. But I really don't think that Bernie continuing to campaign will make those who wouldn't vote for Trump now change their minds. I honestly do not think that it will have the kind of impact you're suggesting. Also, I think that just on principle alone, Bernie has a good point. The way the media has played this nomination "announcement" is just plain wrong.

It may have been wrong but HRC didn't want it either. It doesn't make her any less the nominee.

The guy spent a month in California and lost by 12. He spent weeks in NY and got clobbered. He lost FL, VA, NC, OH, PA. These are the swing states. He lost pledged, super, and total vote. There is literally no argument for him not to concede, other than stubbornness or narcissism. He has the influence to shape the platform, but he will lose it if he doesn't drop by next week.

Well, it does actually make her less the nominee, because she's not the nominee until she is nominated!

I think there are a few arguments for him not to concede myself. I'm not saying that I agree with them in the long run (although do on principle if not in practice), but they are still valid arguments IMO. Perhaps stubbornness has something to do with it (which isn't always a bad thing), but I don't think narcissism does. And remember, you can't lose pledged or SD votes until you lose them. This is the main point. Until the convention, he hasn't lost those, and Hillary hasn't won them. I understand that predictions hold some water, but I don't feel like they're being handled as prediction anymore, which is a real problem.

I hear you but there's no practical argument for him not to concede. He knows the SD will not switch unless something cataclysmic happens. And if that does, he can put his name up, considering he has 1800 pledged delegates. There's nothing that precludes that. Staying in may make his hard core supporters happy, but not helping the team.

Okay, but the thing about this is, since when was Bernie an idiot? He's not. He's a very reasonable man. This gives me reason to think that he has practical reasons, whatever they may be.

Free

FACT: Superdelegates vote in July.

The establishment parties have now chosen (albeit SDs vote in July) the two most disliked presidential candidates in history. Congrats America!

However, you bozos who think Sanders should concede are not winning. (Winning!)
He's going right up til the convention as is his right and it just pisses you all off.

Soul, if you think you can have a reasonable discussion on Bernie with that guy russell? You are wasting your time.

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

I get that Bernie wants to take his "revolution" to the convention, but he needs to stop lying to his supporters. It's over. Hillary has complete control. She owns the popular vote, the delegates, and the superdelegate count. The only thing Bernie is doing now is helping Trump. If that's his goal, then well played, Bernie.

I don't see how it would be helping Trump. The general election campaign isn't happening yet. Whether Bernie bows out now, or makes his point by staying in the race until the Dem nomination is ACTUALLY won, instead of fake-won the way the media wants it, it won't impact how the two ACTUAL nominees go head to head.

The general election campaigning is currently under way. The presumptive nominees have been decided, and both the presumptive nominees are focused on one another. So if Bernie keeps up his campaign against Hillary, that is providing fuel for Trump. It also essentially pits Hillary against Trump and Bernie. Bernie needs to help unite the party. The longer he battles Clinton, the more damage he's doing to the Dems chances in the general. His current fight against Clinton is an exercise in futility. If he plays nicely he can still have an influence on the party platform. But at this point he isn't and won't be the nominee. He needs to stop pretending.

Maybe Bernie knows something we don't know, I have no idea. But I really don't think that Bernie continuing to campaign will make those who wouldn't vote for Trump now change their minds. I honestly do not think that it will have the kind of impact you're suggesting. Also, I think that just on principle alone, Bernie has a good point. The way the media has played this nomination "announcement" is just plain wrong.

It may have been wrong but HRC didn't want it either. It doesn't make her any less the nominee.

The guy spent a month in California and lost by 12. He spent weeks in NY and got clobbered. He lost FL, VA, NC, OH, PA. These are the swing states. He lost pledged, super, and total vote. There is literally no argument for him not to concede, other than stubbornness or narcissism. He has the influence to shape the platform, but he will lose it if he doesn't drop by next week.

Well, it does actually make her less the nominee, because she's not the nominee until she is nominated!

I think there are a few arguments for him not to concede myself. I'm not saying that I agree with them in the long run (although do on principle if not in practice), but they are still valid arguments IMO. Perhaps stubbornness has something to do with it (which isn't always a bad thing), but I don't think narcissism does. And remember, you can't lose pledged or SD votes until you lose them. This is the main point. Until the convention, he hasn't lost those, and Hillary hasn't won them. I understand that predictions hold some water, but I don't feel like they're being handled as prediction anymore, which is a real problem.

I hear you but there's no practical argument for him not to concede. He knows the SD will not switch unless something cataclysmic happens. And if that does, he can put his name up, considering he has 1800 pledged delegates. There's nothing that precludes that. Staying in may make his hard core supporters happy, but not helping the team.

Okay, but the thing about this is, since when was Bernie an idiot? He's not. He's a very reasonable man. This gives me reason to think that he has practical reasons, whatever they may be.

I'm open to a rational reason, I just don't know what it is.

mrussel1

Free said:

FACT: Superdelegates vote in July.

The establishment parties have now chosen (albeit SDs vote in July) the two most disliked presidential candidates in history. Congrats America!

However, you bozos who think Sanders should concede are not winning. (Winning!)
He's going right up til the convention as is his right and it just pisses you all off.

Soul, if you think you can have a reasonable discussion on Bernie with that guy russell? You are wasting your time.

The irony is thick with this one.

PJ_Soul

FTR, I thought our discussion was on a pretty reasonable track mrussel1.

jeffbr

You're right, it is Sanders right to campaign straight to the convention. Nobody has denied that. But the bozos you are calling out (I guess I'm one as well), are talking about what a reasonable candidate would/should do if that candidate cared about the party or the party's presumptive nominee winning the election against someone like Trump. Bernie can do whatever he wants. That doesn't mean it is the smart or right thing to do. The only US senator who supports Bernie is telling him that he's done and should pack it in. I guess he's a bozo, too.

Your fact about superdelegates voting in July is right on the money. The other fact that you don't like is that superdelegates have mostly already indicated how they'll be voting, and they typically stick to that. When they don't, it typically isn't in large enough numbers to affect the outcome.

As I've said previously, I don't have a dog in this fight. I just like being a spectator in this political game. I don't want any of the three remaining candidates to be my president. Only two of the three have a shot, and one of those two scares the hell out of me. I'm sure Trump is thankful to have people like you and like Bernie helping him fight Hillary.

Free

jeffbr said:

You're right, it is Sanders right to campaign straight to the convention. Nobody has denied that. But the bozos you are calling out (I guess I'm one as well), are talking about what a reasonable candidate would/should do if that candidate cared about the party or the party's presumptive nominee winning the election against someone like Trump. Bernie can do whatever he wants. That doesn't mean it is the smart or right thing to do. The only US senator who supports Bernie is telling him that he's done and should pack it in. I guess he's a bozo, too.

Your fact about superdelegates voting in July is right on the money. The other fact that you don't like is that superdelegates have mostly already indicated how they'll be voting, and they typically stick to that. When they don't, it typically isn't in large enough numbers to affect the outcome.

As I've said previously, I don't have a dog in this fight. I just like being a spectator in this political game. I don't want any of the three remaining candidates to be my president. Only two of the three have a shot, and one of those two scares the hell out of me. I'm sure Trump is thankful to have people like you and like Bernie helping him fight Hillary.

Reasonable candidate? He's no reasonable candidate when he challenges establishment America. Why do you think he has so many people supporting him? Because for the people of this country, the only candidate who's willing to fight for the actual people of this country, the people actually have a real candidate with THEIR back and not the corporations. He's not typical, and people are fed up with the corporations and 1% running this country. His supporters don't fall for that huge fear tactic of Trump. His supporters actually want much needed CHANGE. And real change doesn't follow any rules as to what a "reasonable candidate would/should do". And no, Sanders doesn't care about the Dems, nor the 2 party system. He cares about the PEOPLE of this country, not the facade of doing whatever possible to help the Dem candidate. That's what people are not understanding.

Sanders is the real deal, not some phony "get in line", "serve your backers", "incite fear into the people" bullshit. He is interested in real change and that's why his movement isn't a fleeting idea. He may not win, but this movement will continue. For the greater good of this country, and not in serving the establishment.

mrussel1

Are you guys Jacksonion or Jacobin? The lines are blurring.

rustneversleeps

PJ_Soul said:

FTR, I thought our discussion was on a pretty reasonable track mrussel1.

i think mrussell was saying hes open to a rational reason why sanders would prolong the inevitable, but just doesnt see one... not referring to your discussion as irrational.

rustneversleeps

PJ_Soul said:

FTR, I thought our discussion was on a pretty reasonable track mrussel1.

i see now, you were referring to frees comment... carry on.

Free

Jill Stein still wants Bernie Sanders to join her on the Green Party ticket

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/292314/jill-stein-bernie-sanders-join-green-party-ticket/

Free

Jason P said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

I get that Bernie wants to take his "revolution" to the convention, but he needs to stop lying to his supporters. It's over. Hillary has complete control. She owns the popular vote, the delegates, and the superdelegate count. The only thing Bernie is doing now is helping Trump. If that's his goal, then well played, Bernie.

I don't see how it would be helping Trump. The general election campaign isn't happening yet. Whether Bernie bows out now, or makes his point by staying in the race until the Dem nomination is ACTUALLY won, instead of fake-won the way the media wants it, it won't impact how the two ACTUAL nominees go head to head.

The general election campaigning is currently under way. The presumptive nominees have been decided, and both the presumptive nominees are focused on one another. So if Bernie keeps up his campaign against Hillary, that is providing fuel for Trump. It also essentially pits Hillary against Trump and Bernie. Bernie needs to help unite the party. The longer he battles Clinton, the more damage he's doing to the Dems chances in the general. His current fight against Clinton is an exercise in futility. If he plays nicely he can still have an influence on the party platform. But at this point he isn't and won't be the nominee. He needs to stop pretending.

Maybe Bernie knows something we don't know, I have no idea. But I really don't think that Bernie continuing to campaign will make those who wouldn't vote for Trump now change their minds. I honestly do not think that it will have the kind of impact you're suggesting. Also, I think that just on principle alone, Bernie has a good point. The way the media has played this nomination "announcement" is just plain wrong.

It may have been wrong but HRC didn't want it either. It doesn't make her any less the nominee.

The guy spent a month in California and lost by 12. He spent weeks in NY and got clobbered. He lost FL, VA, NC, OH, PA. These are the swing states. He lost pledged, super, and total vote. There is literally no argument for him not to concede, other than stubbornness or narcissism. He has the influence to shape the platform, but he will lose it if he doesn't drop by next week.

Well, it does actually make her less the nominee, because she's not the nominee until she is nominated!

I think there are a few arguments for him not to concede myself. I'm not saying that I agree with them in the long run (although do on principle if not in practice), but they are still valid arguments IMO. Perhaps stubbornness has something to do with it (which isn't always a bad thing), but I don't think narcissism does. And remember, you can't lose pledged or SD votes until you lose them. This is the main point. Until the convention, he hasn't lost those, and Hillary hasn't won them. I understand that predictions hold some water, but I don't feel like they're being handled as prediction anymore, which is a real problem.

I hear you but there's no practical argument for him not to concede. He knows the SD will not switch unless something cataclysmic happens. And if that does, he can put his name up, considering he has 1800 pledged delegates. There's nothing that precludes that. Staying in may make his hard core supporters happy, but not helping the team.

Any chance he's waiting to see if an indictment comes Clinton's way re: the email fiasco?

The Hail Mary pass!

Don't count it out!

ikiT

I'm originally from Vermont and even I think it's time to take that "Bernie" sign out of the front yard.
Math is math and rules are rules.

I think the only way to placate some of his supporters (and him maybe at this point) is to put him on the ticket, and incorporate his progressive ideas into the democratic platform. Clinton/Sanders, problem solved. Perhaps the Clinton campaign plays it close to the vest, seal the deal between the two of them and maybe hold off to announce until the convention.

Honestly I didn't think those TWO Geoge W Bush presidencies were in anyway at all possible (until he stole both of them), so it's time to align the two candidacies and stack this shit up as high as possible and demolish that two faced, all my ties and shirts were made in China, Trump steak selling, middle school reactionary pompous douchebag and disaster waiting to happen, Donald Trump.

Cliffy6745

Free said:

jeffbr said:

You're right, it is Sanders right to campaign straight to the convention. Nobody has denied that. But the bozos you are calling out (I guess I'm one as well), are talking about what a reasonable candidate would/should do if that candidate cared about the party or the party's presumptive nominee winning the election against someone like Trump. Bernie can do whatever he wants. That doesn't mean it is the smart or right thing to do. The only US senator who supports Bernie is telling him that he's done and should pack it in. I guess he's a bozo, too.

Your fact about superdelegates voting in July is right on the money. The other fact that you don't like is that superdelegates have mostly already indicated how they'll be voting, and they typically stick to that. When they don't, it typically isn't in large enough numbers to affect the outcome.

As I've said previously, I don't have a dog in this fight. I just like being a spectator in this political game. I don't want any of the three remaining candidates to be my president. Only two of the three have a shot, and one of those two scares the hell out of me. I'm sure Trump is thankful to have people like you and like Bernie helping him fight Hillary.

Reasonable candidate? He's no reasonable candidate when he challenges establishment America. Why do you think he has so many people supporting him? Because for the people of this country, the only candidate who's willing to fight for the actual people of this country, the people actually have a real candidate with THEIR back and not the corporations. He's not typical, and people are fed up with the corporations and 1% running this country. His supporters don't fall for that huge fear tactic of Trump. His supporters actually want much needed CHANGE. And real change doesn't follow any rules as to what a "reasonable candidate would/should do". And no, Sanders doesn't care about the Dems, nor the 2 party system. He cares about the PEOPLE of this country, not the facade of doing whatever possible to help the Dem candidate. That's what people are not understanding.

Sanders is the real deal, not some phony "get in line", "serve your backers", "incite fear into the people" bullshit. He is interested in real change and that's why his movement isn't a fleeting idea. He may not win, but this movement will continue. For the greater good of this country, and not in serving the establishment.

You know how many supporters he has? About 3 million less than Hillary, so scram dude, it's over