Bernie Sanders for President

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Comments

  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    JimmyV said:

    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    "Stop being afraid" and "You are listening to the media" aren't the most compelling messages Bernie Sanders supporters could be putting forth. I respect the passion but lashing out at others who are looking at the situation objectively is counterproductive.

    It has been asked several times in the Sanders threads. Has anyone taken the time to map out exactly what Bernie's path to the nomination is? What States does he win? Where does he finish close?

    We'll see what happens tomorrow and Tuesday but going in with my eyes open is not giving up or being afraid. It is understanding the likely outcome.

    This response is exactly what's wrong with the MSM and the voters. Ignore the issues and only report on the horse race. The MSM and voters family friends neighbors co workers need to talk more about the issues and less about the race.
    And the continued dodge on answering the question regarding Bernie's path to victory, instead pivoting and attacking anyone who asks it, is exactly what is wrong with some Bernie supporters on this board right now.

    This. It isn't surprising that they don't want to talk about the reality of the race, and are living on hopes and prayers. The reality of the race is that one must get the majority of the delegates to become the nominee. All I'm asking for is for one of you Sanders people to please explain how he gets the majority of the delegates? Which states will he will? Which superdelegates does he get? It isn't about being afraid, it is about being real. Sorry to burst any Bernie Bubbles, but I don't see how the math works, and I'm just asking for someone in the Bernie camp to lay out his path to the victory you're all seeing.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    jeffbr said:

    JimmyV said:

    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    "Stop being afraid" and "You are listening to the media" aren't the most compelling messages Bernie Sanders supporters could be putting forth. I respect the passion but lashing out at others who are looking at the situation objectively is counterproductive.

    It has been asked several times in the Sanders threads. Has anyone taken the time to map out exactly what Bernie's path to the nomination is? What States does he win? Where does he finish close?

    We'll see what happens tomorrow and Tuesday but going in with my eyes open is not giving up or being afraid. It is understanding the likely outcome.

    This response is exactly what's wrong with the MSM and the voters. Ignore the issues and only report on the horse race. The MSM and voters family friends neighbors co workers need to talk more about the issues and less about the race.
    And the continued dodge on answering the question regarding Bernie's path to victory, instead pivoting and attacking anyone who asks it, is exactly what is wrong with some Bernie supporters on this board right now.

    This. It isn't surprising that they don't want to talk about the reality of the race, and are living on hopes and prayers. The reality of the race is that one must get the majority of the delegates to become the nominee. All I'm asking for is for one of you Sanders people to please explain how he gets the majority of the delegates? Which states will he will? Which superdelegates does he get? It isn't about being afraid, it is about being real. Sorry to burst any Bernie Bubbles, but I don't see how the math works, and I'm just asking for someone in the Bernie camp to lay out his path to the victory you're all seeing.
    All I'm asking is one of these Bernie supporters to tell me tomorrows powerball numbers, will the eagles win a super bowl before I die and if a cure for cancer will ever be discovered.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    JC29856 said:

    jeffbr said:

    JimmyV said:

    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    "Stop being afraid" and "You are listening to the media" aren't the most compelling messages Bernie Sanders supporters could be putting forth. I respect the passion but lashing out at others who are looking at the situation objectively is counterproductive.

    It has been asked several times in the Sanders threads. Has anyone taken the time to map out exactly what Bernie's path to the nomination is? What States does he win? Where does he finish close?

    We'll see what happens tomorrow and Tuesday but going in with my eyes open is not giving up or being afraid. It is understanding the likely outcome.

    This response is exactly what's wrong with the MSM and the voters. Ignore the issues and only report on the horse race. The MSM and voters family friends neighbors co workers need to talk more about the issues and less about the race.
    And the continued dodge on answering the question regarding Bernie's path to victory, instead pivoting and attacking anyone who asks it, is exactly what is wrong with some Bernie supporters on this board right now.

    This. It isn't surprising that they don't want to talk about the reality of the race, and are living on hopes and prayers. The reality of the race is that one must get the majority of the delegates to become the nominee. All I'm asking for is for one of you Sanders people to please explain how he gets the majority of the delegates? Which states will he will? Which superdelegates does he get? It isn't about being afraid, it is about being real. Sorry to burst any Bernie Bubbles, but I don't see how the math works, and I'm just asking for someone in the Bernie camp to lay out his path to the victory you're all seeing.
    All I'm asking is one of these Bernie supporters to tell me tomorrows powerball numbers, will the eagles win a super bowl before I die and if a cure for cancer will ever be discovered.
    Thank you for confirmation that a rational explanation about the math necessary for Bernie to get the nomination is in the same category as the other topics you mentioned. That's what I thought.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    JC29856 said:

    jeffbr said:

    JimmyV said:

    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    "Stop being afraid" and "You are listening to the media" aren't the most compelling messages Bernie Sanders supporters could be putting forth. I respect the passion but lashing out at others who are looking at the situation objectively is counterproductive.

    It has been asked several times in the Sanders threads. Has anyone taken the time to map out exactly what Bernie's path to the nomination is? What States does he win? Where does he finish close?

    We'll see what happens tomorrow and Tuesday but going in with my eyes open is not giving up or being afraid. It is understanding the likely outcome.

    This response is exactly what's wrong with the MSM and the voters. Ignore the issues and only report on the horse race. The MSM and voters family friends neighbors co workers need to talk more about the issues and less about the race.
    And the continued dodge on answering the question regarding Bernie's path to victory, instead pivoting and attacking anyone who asks it, is exactly what is wrong with some Bernie supporters on this board right now.

    This. It isn't surprising that they don't want to talk about the reality of the race, and are living on hopes and prayers. The reality of the race is that one must get the majority of the delegates to become the nominee. All I'm asking for is for one of you Sanders people to please explain how he gets the majority of the delegates? Which states will he will? Which superdelegates does he get? It isn't about being afraid, it is about being real. Sorry to burst any Bernie Bubbles, but I don't see how the math works, and I'm just asking for someone in the Bernie camp to lay out his path to the victory you're all seeing.
    All I'm asking is one of these Bernie supporters to tell me tomorrows powerball numbers, will the eagles win a super bowl before I die and if a cure for cancer will ever be discovered.
    Perfect response.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,072
    Hope is not the conviction that things will turn out well. Hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Free said:

    JC29856 said:

    jeffbr said:

    JimmyV said:

    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    "Stop being afraid" and "You are listening to the media" aren't the most compelling messages Bernie Sanders supporters could be putting forth. I respect the passion but lashing out at others who are looking at the situation objectively is counterproductive.

    It has been asked several times in the Sanders threads. Has anyone taken the time to map out exactly what Bernie's path to the nomination is? What States does he win? Where does he finish close?

    We'll see what happens tomorrow and Tuesday but going in with my eyes open is not giving up or being afraid. It is understanding the likely outcome.

    This response is exactly what's wrong with the MSM and the voters. Ignore the issues and only report on the horse race. The MSM and voters family friends neighbors co workers need to talk more about the issues and less about the race.
    And the continued dodge on answering the question regarding Bernie's path to victory, instead pivoting and attacking anyone who asks it, is exactly what is wrong with some Bernie supporters on this board right now.

    This. It isn't surprising that they don't want to talk about the reality of the race, and are living on hopes and prayers. The reality of the race is that one must get the majority of the delegates to become the nominee. All I'm asking for is for one of you Sanders people to please explain how he gets the majority of the delegates? Which states will he will? Which superdelegates does he get? It isn't about being afraid, it is about being real. Sorry to burst any Bernie Bubbles, but I don't see how the math works, and I'm just asking for someone in the Bernie camp to lay out his path to the victory you're all seeing.
    All I'm asking is one of these Bernie supporters to tell me tomorrows powerball numbers, will the eagles win a super bowl before I die and if a cure for cancer will ever be discovered.
    Perfect response.
    Agreed! It aligned perfectly with my expectation for receiving a logical, reality-based answer to a valid and important question.

    I think Brian addressed the issue perfectly. Hope and vote your convictions. When a Sanders supporter tells me they're voting for Sanders because he's the best candidate to address issues, or because he aligns most closely with their views, I completely support that and don't question it. Absolutely vote your convictions! When a Sanders supporter tells me that Sanders will win the nomination, that is different matter altogether. That moves things from the subjective to the objective, and that's when I ask the hard question - How? Pesky logic. Pesky math. Pesky reality.

    As a disclaimer, I haven't voted for a winner in a presidential race since 1980, so I completely understand backing a candidate based on conviction. I don't belittle Sanders supporters for wanting him to win. I just question them when they're convinced he can.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    jeffbr said:

    Free said:

    JC29856 said:

    jeffbr said:

    JimmyV said:

    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    "Stop being afraid" and "You are listening to the media" aren't the most compelling messages Bernie Sanders supporters could be putting forth. I respect the passion but lashing out at others who are looking at the situation objectively is counterproductive.

    It has been asked several times in the Sanders threads. Has anyone taken the time to map out exactly what Bernie's path to the nomination is? What States does he win? Where does he finish close?

    We'll see what happens tomorrow and Tuesday but going in with my eyes open is not giving up or being afraid. It is understanding the likely outcome.

    This response is exactly what's wrong with the MSM and the voters. Ignore the issues and only report on the horse race. The MSM and voters family friends neighbors co workers need to talk more about the issues and less about the race.
    And the continued dodge on answering the question regarding Bernie's path to victory, instead pivoting and attacking anyone who asks it, is exactly what is wrong with some Bernie supporters on this board right now.

    This. It isn't surprising that they don't want to talk about the reality of the race, and are living on hopes and prayers. The reality of the race is that one must get the majority of the delegates to become the nominee. All I'm asking for is for one of you Sanders people to please explain how he gets the majority of the delegates? Which states will he will? Which superdelegates does he get? It isn't about being afraid, it is about being real. Sorry to burst any Bernie Bubbles, but I don't see how the math works, and I'm just asking for someone in the Bernie camp to lay out his path to the victory you're all seeing.
    All I'm asking is one of these Bernie supporters to tell me tomorrows powerball numbers, will the eagles win a super bowl before I die and if a cure for cancer will ever be discovered.
    Perfect response.
    Agreed! It aligned perfectly with my expectation for receiving a logical, reality-based answer to a valid and important question.

    I think Brian addressed the issue perfectly. Hope and vote your convictions. When a Sanders supporter tells me they're voting for Sanders because he's the best candidate to address issues, or because he aligns most closely with their views, I completely support that and don't question it. Absolutely vote your convictions! When a Sanders supporter tells me that Sanders will win the nomination, that is different matter altogether. That moves things from the subjective to the objective, and that's when I ask the hard question - How? Pesky logic. Pesky math. Pesky reality.

    As a disclaimer, I haven't voted for a winner in a presidential race since 1980, so I completely understand backing a candidate based on conviction. I don't belittle Sanders supporters for wanting him to win. I just question them when they're convinced he can.
    Boom goes the weasel!
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    jeffbr said:

    Free said:

    JC29856 said:

    jeffbr said:

    JimmyV said:

    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    "Stop being afraid" and "You are listening to the media" aren't the most compelling messages Bernie Sanders supporters could be putting forth. I respect the passion but lashing out at others who are looking at the situation objectively is counterproductive.

    It has been asked several times in the Sanders threads. Has anyone taken the time to map out exactly what Bernie's path to the nomination is? What States does he win? Where does he finish close?

    We'll see what happens tomorrow and Tuesday but going in with my eyes open is not giving up or being afraid. It is understanding the likely outcome.

    This response is exactly what's wrong with the MSM and the voters. Ignore the issues and only report on the horse race. The MSM and voters family friends neighbors co workers need to talk more about the issues and less about the race.
    And the continued dodge on answering the question regarding Bernie's path to victory, instead pivoting and attacking anyone who asks it, is exactly what is wrong with some Bernie supporters on this board right now.

    This. It isn't surprising that they don't want to talk about the reality of the race, and are living on hopes and prayers. The reality of the race is that one must get the majority of the delegates to become the nominee. All I'm asking for is for one of you Sanders people to please explain how he gets the majority of the delegates? Which states will he will? Which superdelegates does he get? It isn't about being afraid, it is about being real. Sorry to burst any Bernie Bubbles, but I don't see how the math works, and I'm just asking for someone in the Bernie camp to lay out his path to the victory you're all seeing.
    All I'm asking is one of these Bernie supporters to tell me tomorrows powerball numbers, will the eagles win a super bowl before I die and if a cure for cancer will ever be discovered.
    Perfect response.
    Agreed! It aligned perfectly with my expectation for receiving a logical, reality-based answer to a valid and important question.

    I think Brian addressed the issue perfectly. Hope and vote your convictions. When a Sanders supporter tells me they're voting for Sanders because he's the best candidate to address issues, or because he aligns most closely with their views, I completely support that and don't question it. Absolutely vote your convictions! When a Sanders supporter tells me that Sanders will win the nomination, that is different matter altogether. That moves things from the subjective to the objective, and that's when I ask the hard question - How? Pesky logic. Pesky math. Pesky reality.

    As a disclaimer, I haven't voted for a winner in a presidential race since 1980, so I completely understand backing a candidate based on conviction. I don't belittle Sanders supporters for wanting him to win. I just question them when they're convinced he can.
    And who said that he's going to win? All I've been doing is calling you folks out for saying he's NOT going to win! Study the math, media and polls all you want, doesn't mean that you know who's going to win. Following the horse race play by play doesn't make anyone an expert on who will win. Again, look back eight years. And that's my point.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,072
    I would encourage you guys to look at the bigger picture. This isn't just about winning nomination. This is about creating fundamental change in U.S. politics. You can say, "He hasn't got a chance so why bother". Looking at it that way is accepting the status quo, it is lacking imagination, it is giving in, it is one step away from apathy. If that's the case, you might as well just not vote at all or vote for Trump because that would be a really cynical move!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    edited February 2016
    Free said:

    jeffbr said:

    Free said:

    JC29856 said:

    jeffbr said:

    JimmyV said:

    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    "Stop being afraid" and "You are listening to the media" aren't the most compelling messages Bernie Sanders supporters could be putting forth. I respect the passion but lashing out at others who are looking at the situation objectively is counterproductive.

    It has been asked several times in the Sanders threads. Has anyone taken the time to map out exactly what Bernie's path to the nomination is? What States does he win? Where does he finish close?

    We'll see what happens tomorrow and Tuesday but going in with my eyes open is not giving up or being afraid. It is understanding the likely outcome.

    This response is exactly what's wrong with the MSM and the voters. Ignore the issues and only report on the horse race. The MSM and voters family friends neighbors co workers need to talk more about the issues and less about the race.
    And the continued dodge on answering the question regarding Bernie's path to victory, instead pivoting and attacking anyone who asks it, is exactly what is wrong with some Bernie supporters on this board right now.

    This. It isn't surprising that they don't want to talk about the reality of the race, and are living on hopes and prayers. The reality of the race is that one must get the majority of the delegates to become the nominee. All I'm asking for is for one of you Sanders people to please explain how he gets the majority of the delegates? Which states will he will? Which superdelegates does he get? It isn't about being afraid, it is about being real. Sorry to burst any Bernie Bubbles, but I don't see how the math works, and I'm just asking for someone in the Bernie camp to lay out his path to the victory you're all seeing.
    All I'm asking is one of these Bernie supporters to tell me tomorrows powerball numbers, will the eagles win a super bowl before I die and if a cure for cancer will ever be discovered.
    Perfect response.
    Agreed! It aligned perfectly with my expectation for receiving a logical, reality-based answer to a valid and important question.

    I think Brian addressed the issue perfectly. Hope and vote your convictions. When a Sanders supporter tells me they're voting for Sanders because he's the best candidate to address issues, or because he aligns most closely with their views, I completely support that and don't question it. Absolutely vote your convictions! When a Sanders supporter tells me that Sanders will win the nomination, that is different matter altogether. That moves things from the subjective to the objective, and that's when I ask the hard question - How? Pesky logic. Pesky math. Pesky reality.

    As a disclaimer, I haven't voted for a winner in a presidential race since 1980, so I completely understand backing a candidate based on conviction. I don't belittle Sanders supporters for wanting him to win. I just question them when they're convinced he can.
    And who said that he's going to win? All I've been doing is calling you folks out for saying he's NOT going to win! Study the math, media and polls all you want, doesn't mean that you know who's going to win. Following the horse race play by play doesn't make anyone an expert on who will win. Again, look back eight years. And that's my point.
    But you "call us out" by basically telling us to ignore reality. It isn't effective. It is a normal part of an election process to try to understand momentum shifts, strength of message, performance in debates, endorsements and other indicators to try to gauge where a race is headed. It is called a race for a reason. Could Bernie win the nomination? Absolutely! Hillary could get hit by a bus crossing the street later this evening. But barring that, I don't see it.

    I feel like I'm talking to a deeply religious person who is able to suspend disbelief and ho
    Post edited by jeffbr on
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,913

    what if hillary picks obama to run for vp?

    stranger things have happened. obama is experienced. he is still very popular. he said that his political career is not going to be over, and he knows how to make the gop look very, very foolish.

    i would say he is qualified for the gig, for sure.

    Stranger things than what you are suggesting have certainly not happened.
    sure stranger things have happened.

    johnny football got drafted in the first round. that is stranger than obama being picked to stay in the executive branch.
    by the browns. i disagree.
    www.myspace.com
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    what if hillary picks obama to run for vp?

    stranger things have happened. obama is experienced. he is still very popular. he said that his political career is not going to be over, and he knows how to make the gop look very, very foolish.

    i would say he is qualified for the gig, for sure.

    Stranger things than what you are suggesting have certainly not happened.
    sure stranger things have happened.

    johnny football got drafted in the first round. that is stranger than obama being picked to stay in the executive branch.
    by the browns. i disagree.
    Wisdom.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited February 2016
    jeffbr said:

    Free said:

    jeffbr said:

    Free said:

    JC29856 said:

    jeffbr said:

    JimmyV said:

    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    "Stop being afraid" and "You are listening to the media" aren't the most compelling messages Bernie Sanders supporters could be putting forth. I respect the passion but lashing out at others who are looking at the situation objectively is counterproductive.

    It has been asked several times in the Sanders threads. Has anyone taken the time to map out exactly what Bernie's path to the nomination is? What States does he win? Where does he finish close?

    We'll see what happens tomorrow and Tuesday but going in with my eyes open is not giving up or being afraid. It is understanding the likely outcome.

    This response is exactly what's wrong with the MSM and the voters. Ignore the issues and only report on the horse race. The MSM and voters family friends neighbors co workers need to talk more about the issues and less about the race.
    And the continued dodge on answering the question regarding Bernie's path to victory, instead pivoting and attacking anyone who asks it, is exactly what is wrong with some Bernie supporters on this board right now.

    This. It isn't surprising that they don't want to talk about the reality of the race, and are living on hopes and prayers. The reality of the race is that one must get the majority of the delegates to become the nominee. All I'm asking for is for one of you Sanders people to please explain how he gets the majority of the delegates? Which states will he will? Which superdelegates does he get? It isn't about being afraid, it is about being real. Sorry to burst any Bernie Bubbles, but I don't see how the math works, and I'm just asking for someone in the Bernie camp to lay out his path to the victory you're all seeing.
    All I'm asking is one of these Bernie supporters to tell me tomorrows powerball numbers, will the eagles win a super bowl before I die and if a cure for cancer will ever be discovered.
    Perfect response.
    Agreed! It aligned perfectly with my expectation for receiving a logical, reality-based answer to a valid and important question.

    I think Brian addressed the issue perfectly. Hope and vote your convictions. When a Sanders supporter tells me they're voting for Sanders because he's the best candidate to address issues, or because he aligns most closely with their views, I completely support that and don't question it. Absolutely vote your convictions! When a Sanders supporter tells me that Sanders will win the nomination, that is different matter altogether. That moves things from the subjective to the objective, and that's when I ask the hard question - How? Pesky logic. Pesky math. Pesky reality.

    As a disclaimer, I haven't voted for a winner in a presidential race since 1980, so I completely understand backing a candidate based on conviction. I don't belittle Sanders supporters for wanting him to win. I just question them when they're convinced he can.
    And who said that he's going to win? All I've been doing is calling you folks out for saying he's NOT going to win! Study the math, media and polls all you want, doesn't mean that you know who's going to win. Following the horse race play by play doesn't make anyone an expert on who will win. Again, look back eight years. And that's my point.
    But you "call us out" by basically telling us to ignore reality. It isn't effective. It is a normal part of an election process to try to understand momentum shifts, strength of message, performance in debates, endorsements and other indicators to try to gauge where a race is headed. It is called a race for a reason. Could Bernie win the nomination? Absolutely! Hillary could get hit by a bus crossing the street later this evening. But barring that, I don't see it.

    I feel like I'm talking to a deeply religious person who is able to suspend disbelief and ho
    Crack me up with the put down. :lol:

    Listen, I'm calling out the MSM, and all the lies that they throw at people and people believe.

    It Is up to each individual on how much they want to dissect the mainstream media And election process. Which takes two years to vote for a president. Much longer than most countries, and unnecessarily so. we still have 9 months left. You consider it your mission to understand the election process, I call it a circus especially with Trump involved. Politics are corrupt.

    The MSM is tightly involved with politics that are backed by corporations. Hence the reason why the media loves everyone but Bernie. To make sense out of this election is to see beyond what you see from the MSM, which is strictly backed by corporations aka establishment. Hence the reason why the media loves everyone but Bernie. To make sense out of this election is to certainly take everything you see and hear with a grain of salt. Not to study it play-by-play. We don't see everything that happens behind closed doors. We only hear what the media wants us to.

    Just because my reality is more about questioning what I see and hear and yours is not, doesn't mean you're right and I'm wrong. To trust the political process in the United States and not question anything isn't really the way to go. That's how fascism takes hold.

    Post edited by Free on
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,179
    The boogieman MSM, backed by corporations and desperate for ratings, hates the one guy who is challenging Clinton, making it a race, driving ratings and generating revenue for them? Sorry I don't buy that. It's moneymaking season in the political news world and a vibrant Sanders campaign helps reach that end.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited February 2016
    JimmyV said:

    The boogieman MSM, backed by corporations and desperate for ratings, hates the one guy who is challenging Clinton, making it a race, driving ratings and generating revenue for them? Sorry I don't buy that. It's moneymaking season in the political news world and a vibrant Sanders campaign helps reach that end.

    OMG. Wake up and smell the espresso. You have no idea what you're talking about, with all due respect.

    The only reason the MSM is talking about Bernie is because they can't ignore him anymore. His supporters has been blasting the media since he came on the scene for ignoring him.
    Post edited by Free on
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Believe it or not, we actually share many of the same opinions on mainstream media, the long drawn-out election process and the way politics are wrapped up in corporate media. But that is the system we have, and out of that system comes delegate counts and other indicators that lead one to conclusions about probabilities for winning nominations. It isn't a case of me not questioning what I see, it is a case of me taking what we have to work with and attempting to draw logical conclusions. I'm not sure how you can reach any conclusions absent appropriate data. And if you don't trust any source of data, then you have nothing to work with. Our disconnect is not about the fundamental corruptness of the parties, media or process, it is about drawing conclusions based on data. You seem to have no use for actual data or indicators, and prefer to draw conclusions based on... who knows? That's where my disconnect with your methodology lies.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,179
    Free said:

    JimmyV said:

    The boogieman MSM, backed by corporations and desperate for ratings, hates the one guy who is challenging Clinton, making it a race, driving ratings and generating revenue for them? Sorry I don't buy that. It's moneymaking season in the political news world and a vibrant Sanders campaign helps reach that end.

    OMG. Wake up and smell the espresso. You have no idea what you're talking about, with all due respect.

    The only reason the MSM is talking about Bernie is because they can't ignore him anymore. His supporters has been blasting the media since he came on the scene for ignoring him.
    I understand that Bernie being hated by the media is a compelling campaign narrative to whip supporters into a frenzy - and clearly that has worked.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    Bang my head against a wall please. What I've been saying over and over is that you cannot predict the winner of this race by merely looking at the data right now. Go vote. Make your voice heard. Were you doing this eight years ago? Did your results say Hillary? Did you learn anything from 8 years ago.


    Yes, delegates. Please look it up on the process for delegates and how they earned. Don't watch the news, just look up the information. Yes the winner who has the most delegates and then superdelegates wins. It's a flawed system. And I know how it works. Hillary has 52 delegates, Bernie has 51.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited February 2016
    brianlux said:

    I would encourage you guys to look at the bigger picture. This isn't just about winning nomination. This is about creating fundamental change in U.S. politics. You can say, "He hasn't got a chance so why bother". Looking at it that way is accepting the status quo, it is lacking imagination, it is giving in, it is one step away from apathy. If that's the case, you might as well just not vote at all or vote for Trump because that would be a really cynical move!

    Right on!

    Post edited by Free on
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,179
    Free said:

    Bang my head against a wall please. What I've been saying over and over is that you cannot predict the winner of this race by merely looking at the data right now. Go vote. Make your voice heard. Were you doing this eight years ago? Did your results say Hillary? Did you learn anything from 8 years ago.


    Yes, delegates. Please look it up on the process for delegates and how they earned. Don't watch the news, just look up the information. Yes the winner who has the most delegates and then superdelegates wins. It's a flawed system. And I know how it works. Hillary has 52 delegates, Bernie has 51.

    You realize this is a discussion board where people are going to engage in...discussions?

    Can you vote today? Can any of us? I can't until Tuesday.

    And eight years ago Barack Obama had a clear path to victory. Not a guarantee, but a visible, explainable path. He also won South Carolina so if we are going to keep making comparisons to eight years ago lets see what happens tomorrow.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    Discussions actually mean hearing each other, learning from each other, having a healthy conversation. A lot of insults on the site. And ganging up on others for having a differing opinion. Yeah.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    JimmyV said:

    The boogieman MSM, backed by corporations and desperate for ratings, hates the one guy who is challenging Clinton, making it a race, driving ratings and generating revenue for them? Sorry I don't buy that. It's moneymaking season in the political news world and a vibrant Sanders campaign helps reach that end.

    Small picture short sighted thinking...
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,179
    Free said:

    Discussions actually mean hearing each other, learning from each other, having a healthy conversation. A lot of insults on the site. And ganging up on others for having a differing opinion. Yeah.

    You have replied to my posts over the last few days with "real smart" and "OMG wake up." I don't really think either of those are insults but they are as close as our exchanges have come. And I have not reciprocated.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Free said:

    Bang my head against a wall please. What I've been saying over and over is that you cannot predict the winner of this race by merely looking at the data right now. Go vote. Make your voice heard. Were you doing this eight years ago? Did your results say Hillary? Did you learn anything from 8 years ago.


    Yes, delegates. Please look it up on the process for delegates and how they earned. Don't watch the news, just look up the information. Yes the winner who has the most delegates and then superdelegates wins. It's a flawed system. And I know how it works. Hillary has 52 delegates, Bernie has 51.

    How many superdelegates does Bernie have? You admit that you need to include those as well.

    Endorsements are also a good indicator, especially in the Democratic party where endorsements from members of congress (who make up the bulk of their superdelegates) can provide a clue. If you'd like to know where it stands as far as endorsements go - check it out:

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-endorsement-primary/

    I know that 2008 was a bit different in terms of Obama coming from behind after Iowa, and that is acknowledged on the site as well:
    "Endorsements aren’t a foolproof predictor. In 2008 , more Democrats initially endorsed Hillary Clinton than Barack Obama (although Obama had some support). Still, a steady flow of endorsements for Obama after his early successes in states like Iowa and South Carolina helped to signal that he was an acceptable choice among party elites and presaged his success in other states."

    The problem for Bernie is that nobody can see him picking up many more states, and he isn't particularly well liked with the DNC and party elite, so I don't think Obama and Sanders are comparable.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,179
    JC29856 said:

    JimmyV said:

    The boogieman MSM, backed by corporations and desperate for ratings, hates the one guy who is challenging Clinton, making it a race, driving ratings and generating revenue for them? Sorry I don't buy that. It's moneymaking season in the political news world and a vibrant Sanders campaign helps reach that end.

    Small picture short sighted thinking...
    How many viewers do you think a debate between Hillary Clinton and no one would draw? Not many.

    When you look for a boogieman you usually find one. The MSM makes a great one and in many cases is one. But there is a breakdown in the self-serving logic that it hates the Bernie Sanders campaign in 2016.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Like I said before, the democratic nominee was selected 8 years ago, Bernie supportors cannot come to terms with it. I can't make it more simpler.
    Also some of these Bernie supporters busted their butts for hope and change 2 terms ago and look where that got them. Try to understand what it must feel like being let down first by your president then by the "system". Hopefully people are more educated about the "democratic" process, hopefully Bernie has inspired some to run for local office. That's the best that can come from his compain.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617

    Fang plumbs the resulting conflict:

    The Intercept reviewed transcripts for 50 television segments, from August 2015 through this month, in which Cardona has appeared on CNN to discuss Clinton. In five of those appearances, she was identified or she identified herself as a supporter of Clinton. In another five, she identified herself as someone who advised Clinton during the 2008 campaign. The other 40 appearances presented her as a neutral Democratic strategist or CNN contributor. And in none of her appearances was it disclosed that her firm, the Dewey Square Group, has been retained for consulting work by the Clinton Super PACs or that her colleagues at the firm are working on behalf of the Clinton campaign. Cardona did not respond to a request for comment.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,072
    Free said:

    Bang my head against a wall please. What I've been saying over and over is that you cannot predict the winner of this race by merely looking at the data right now. Go vote. Make your voice heard. Were you doing this eight years ago? Did your results say Hillary? Did you learn anything from 8 years ago.


    Yes, delegates. Please look it up on the process for delegates and how they earned. Don't watch the news, just look up the information. Yes the winner who has the most delegates and then superdelegates wins. It's a flawed system. And I know how it works. Hillary has 52 delegates, Bernie has 51.

    Exactly!

    Good gawd, some of you once showed support for Bernie now your backing off already? Instead, why not get out there, vote for what you believe in, stand up for what you believe in and stop throwing in the towel so easily! Nothing will change if we don't keep the momentum going in the right direction. If you believe Sanders is best person in the running, why back out now? That's nuts!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,179
    Can't speak for anyone else but I haven't backed out of anything. I'm just analyzing the race as I see it which some seem to think is a faux pas.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
This discussion has been closed.