Canadian Politics Redux

PJ_Soul

It's more a thing with a lot of the supporters, which in turn will influence the direction of the party. It's not the other way around.

Parksy

I wouldn't go so far as to call the Conservatives "far right" ... like perhaps not even close.  To Darth's point, I think that's being mis labelled in the media. If you buy into or read into what some.. not all.. but some media outlets are saying, you would think that the Conservatives are similar to the PPC which to what Darth is saying.. is nowhere even close. 

No disrespect intended to Darth.. but more often than not... you reply with a lot of 'what about isms.'  And giving the benefit of the doubt... there are of course issues with both parties as well as their supporters. 

That said... the degree to which behaviour and language is used to throw shade at either party is to me at least remarkably one sided. And I cannot personally stress enough how important this is. 

If you need any proof of that... show me the "F*ck Polievre" flags. I honestly feel bad for folks on the right who are just beyond rationale and class.

As an example... i work with one in particular and we were in a meeting yesterday.  Someone at some point made a quip about "elbows up, eh!" and right on cue she instantly turned into an Eeyore and said quite loud "That is so ridiculously pathetic."  To be clear, she is Pro-Trump Canadian. It boggles my mind personally... but what I cannot figure out is the behaviour. Any issue that is ever brought up about it, she turns quite simply mean and rude. 

Setting aside the dumpster fire that is the internet... I personally know people and have spoken to people who have a burning hatred of all that is Liberal (including but not limited to the above). They believe anyone who voted Liberal is a moron. They despise Canada. They believe we are completely doomed and all of their problems are because of Liberals.

Where does this come from?

In the last few years... I can easily draw a line between that mentality, right wing media, Trump, and yes, very much so... Mr. Polievre.   And I'm not the only one who saw this coming. If you read or watch real journalists discuss this stuff as well as former Conservatives like Erin O'Toole... they all warned against the rhetoric. Pierre doubled down on the rhetoric wherever possible. It hurt him, it hurt his party and I personally believe it hurts the country as a whole. 

Contrast that with those who are Pro-Liberal. I don't see the vitriol and angst against Canadian Conservatism even in the face of recent populist tactics. I've seen them get uglier and band together against Trump of late. The 51st state talk is what is prompting that in my opinion. 

HughFreakingDillon

Canadian conservatives aren't far right. If you compare to the US, they aren't even really right. lol. 

To your point, though, Parksy, I'm not excusing the behaviour, but we simply can't expect people to have the same derision towards politicians who haven't been in power, who they don't personally blame for all of their/the country's woes. They haven't been in power in a decade. I think it's natural that there is going to be at least some degree of higher doses of anger towards the party/PM that has had the reigns. 

But you're right. You simply don't hear "c*ntservatives" or anything vile like that on the left that you see on the right. You don't see the level of glee from a liberal when a conservative is hurting like you see when a con has "owned the libs". Some, yes, but nowhere near the same amount. 

It's always interesting to me to hear both sides saying how much hatred their values show. To me it's 100% clear who is more hateful and angry. 

Parksy

HughFreakingDillon said:

Canadian conservatives aren't far right. If you compare to the US, they aren't even really right. lol. 

To your point, though, Parksy, I'm not excusing the behaviour, but we simply can't expect people to have the same derision towards politicians who haven't been in power, who they don't personally blame for all of their/the country's woes. They haven't been in power in a decade. I think it's natural that there is going to be at least some degree of higher doses of anger towards the party/PM that has had the reigns. 

But you're right. You simply don't hear "c*ntservatives" or anything vile like that on the left that you see on the right. You don't see the level of glee from a liberal when a conservative is hurting like you see when a con has "owned the libs". Some, yes, but nowhere near the same amount. 

It's always interesting to me to hear both sides saying how much hatred their values show. To me it's 100% clear who is more hateful and angry. 

agreed. I think a key X factor here is media. Every form of media.. but in particular non traditional media. YouTube, FC, insta.. you name it.  These outlets are completely unchecked. Folks have become absurdly popular for no other reason other than echoing fearmongering sentiments in the name of a particular 'side.'  And a lot of the public eat it up. 

For those in the know... picture Rhea Perlman's character from Canadian Bacon when she was watching the propaganda news outlets purposely lying and engaging in misinformation to make people against Canada. (talk about foreshadowing) 

While satirical, I think what we were watching then in 1993 I think is now extremely common for everyday people who don't need to wait until the 6 o clock news to get their brain sauce... they get it constantly 24/7.  Mix in algorithms.... and here we are. 

I often chat with people about the differences between Jordan Peterson and Noam Chomsky.  One thing is very, very, very apparent.  Emotion.  Chomsky is dull and pedantic... where as Peterson rose to fame using anger and emotion. Any topic can be discussed and debated.... but usually to do that correctly it requires a substantial amount of time and information.  Using fear and anger and sometimes humour is far more effective especially with folks nowadays who don't have patience or any kind of long attention span. Not only is it effective... it becomes lucrative. 

Because of the election... I've been diversifying my social media portfolio for lack of a better term. I look up right wing pages, conservative politicians, etc. It's neat to see where the algorithms start directing me lol  One lady who seemed fairly popular was ranting and raving about Carney and Trudeau destroying the country. The same old sky is falling and we're all doomed bullshit. Checked a few posts and a few weeks earlier she was bragging and showing off her and her girlfriends vacationing in Whistler living it up. I guess the Liberal economic destruction missed her. lol 

I did notice a pattern with some though.  There is an organization online called "Canada Proud." It's the same right wing, conservative talking points, misinformation, propaganda stuff... with of course a link to donate and a merch store lol. The Trump playbook. 

benjs

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Canadian conservatives aren't far right. If you compare to the US, they aren't even really right. lol. 

To your point, though, Parksy, I'm not excusing the behaviour, but we simply can't expect people to have the same derision towards politicians who haven't been in power, who they don't personally blame for all of their/the country's woes. They haven't been in power in a decade. I think it's natural that there is going to be at least some degree of higher doses of anger towards the party/PM that has had the reigns. 

But you're right. You simply don't hear "c*ntservatives" or anything vile like that on the left that you see on the right. You don't see the level of glee from a liberal when a conservative is hurting like you see when a con has "owned the libs". Some, yes, but nowhere near the same amount. 

It's always interesting to me to hear both sides saying how much hatred their values show. To me it's 100% clear who is more hateful and angry. 

agreed. I think a key X factor here is media. Every form of media.. but in particular non traditional media. YouTube, FC, insta.. you name it.  These outlets are completely unchecked. Folks have become absurdly popular for no other reason other than echoing fearmongering sentiments in the name of a particular 'side.'  And a lot of the public eat it up. 

For those in the know... picture Rhea Perlman's character from Canadian Bacon when she was watching the propaganda news outlets purposely lying and engaging in misinformation to make people against Canada. (talk about foreshadowing) 

While satirical, I think what we were watching then in 1993 I think is now extremely common for everyday people who don't need to wait until the 6 o clock news to get their brain sauce... they get it constantly 24/7.  Mix in algorithms.... and here we are. 

I often chat with people about the differences between Jordan Peterson and Noam Chomsky.  One thing is very, very, very apparent.  Emotion.  Chomsky is dull and pedantic... where as Peterson rose to fame using anger and emotion. Any topic can be discussed and debated.... but usually to do that correctly it requires a substantial amount of time and information.  Using fear and anger and sometimes humour is far more effective especially with folks nowadays who don't have patience or any kind of long attention span. Not only is it effective... it becomes lucrative. 

Because of the election... I've been diversifying my social media portfolio for lack of a better term. I look up right wing pages, conservative politicians, etc. It's neat to see where the algorithms start directing me lol  One lady who seemed fairly popular was ranting and raving about Carney and Trudeau destroying the country. The same old sky is falling and we're all doomed bullshit. Checked a few posts and a few weeks earlier she was bragging and showing off her and her girlfriends vacationing in Whistler living it up. I guess the Liberal economic destruction missed her. lol 

I did notice a pattern with some though.  There is an organization online called "Canada Proud." It's the same right wing, conservative talking points, misinformation, propaganda stuff... with of course a link to donate and a merch store lol. The Trump playbook. 

One thing that Stephen Harper said that resonated with me - is to be skeptical of politicians that speak with a lot of emotionality, because it’s often an act.

Parksy

benjs said:

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Canadian conservatives aren't far right. If you compare to the US, they aren't even really right. lol. 

To your point, though, Parksy, I'm not excusing the behaviour, but we simply can't expect people to have the same derision towards politicians who haven't been in power, who they don't personally blame for all of their/the country's woes. They haven't been in power in a decade. I think it's natural that there is going to be at least some degree of higher doses of anger towards the party/PM that has had the reigns. 

But you're right. You simply don't hear "c*ntservatives" or anything vile like that on the left that you see on the right. You don't see the level of glee from a liberal when a conservative is hurting like you see when a con has "owned the libs". Some, yes, but nowhere near the same amount. 

It's always interesting to me to hear both sides saying how much hatred their values show. To me it's 100% clear who is more hateful and angry. 

agreed. I think a key X factor here is media. Every form of media.. but in particular non traditional media. YouTube, FC, insta.. you name it.  These outlets are completely unchecked. Folks have become absurdly popular for no other reason other than echoing fearmongering sentiments in the name of a particular 'side.'  And a lot of the public eat it up. 

For those in the know... picture Rhea Perlman's character from Canadian Bacon when she was watching the propaganda news outlets purposely lying and engaging in misinformation to make people against Canada. (talk about foreshadowing) 

While satirical, I think what we were watching then in 1993 I think is now extremely common for everyday people who don't need to wait until the 6 o clock news to get their brain sauce... they get it constantly 24/7.  Mix in algorithms.... and here we are. 

I often chat with people about the differences between Jordan Peterson and Noam Chomsky.  One thing is very, very, very apparent.  Emotion.  Chomsky is dull and pedantic... where as Peterson rose to fame using anger and emotion. Any topic can be discussed and debated.... but usually to do that correctly it requires a substantial amount of time and information.  Using fear and anger and sometimes humour is far more effective especially with folks nowadays who don't have patience or any kind of long attention span. Not only is it effective... it becomes lucrative. 

Because of the election... I've been diversifying my social media portfolio for lack of a better term. I look up right wing pages, conservative politicians, etc. It's neat to see where the algorithms start directing me lol  One lady who seemed fairly popular was ranting and raving about Carney and Trudeau destroying the country. The same old sky is falling and we're all doomed bullshit. Checked a few posts and a few weeks earlier she was bragging and showing off her and her girlfriends vacationing in Whistler living it up. I guess the Liberal economic destruction missed her. lol 

I did notice a pattern with some though.  There is an organization online called "Canada Proud." It's the same right wing, conservative talking points, misinformation, propaganda stuff... with of course a link to donate and a merch store lol. The Trump playbook. 

One thing that Stephen Harper said that resonated with me - is to be skeptical of politicians that speak with a lot of emotionality, because it’s often an act.

I like my politicians the same way I like my news anchors and my hotdogs.... boring. lol     (i only use mustard and mustard only) 

benjs

Parksy said:

benjs said:

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Canadian conservatives aren't far right. If you compare to the US, they aren't even really right. lol. 

To your point, though, Parksy, I'm not excusing the behaviour, but we simply can't expect people to have the same derision towards politicians who haven't been in power, who they don't personally blame for all of their/the country's woes. They haven't been in power in a decade. I think it's natural that there is going to be at least some degree of higher doses of anger towards the party/PM that has had the reigns. 

But you're right. You simply don't hear "c*ntservatives" or anything vile like that on the left that you see on the right. You don't see the level of glee from a liberal when a conservative is hurting like you see when a con has "owned the libs". Some, yes, but nowhere near the same amount. 

It's always interesting to me to hear both sides saying how much hatred their values show. To me it's 100% clear who is more hateful and angry. 

agreed. I think a key X factor here is media. Every form of media.. but in particular non traditional media. YouTube, FC, insta.. you name it.  These outlets are completely unchecked. Folks have become absurdly popular for no other reason other than echoing fearmongering sentiments in the name of a particular 'side.'  And a lot of the public eat it up. 

For those in the know... picture Rhea Perlman's character from Canadian Bacon when she was watching the propaganda news outlets purposely lying and engaging in misinformation to make people against Canada. (talk about foreshadowing) 

While satirical, I think what we were watching then in 1993 I think is now extremely common for everyday people who don't need to wait until the 6 o clock news to get their brain sauce... they get it constantly 24/7.  Mix in algorithms.... and here we are. 

I often chat with people about the differences between Jordan Peterson and Noam Chomsky.  One thing is very, very, very apparent.  Emotion.  Chomsky is dull and pedantic... where as Peterson rose to fame using anger and emotion. Any topic can be discussed and debated.... but usually to do that correctly it requires a substantial amount of time and information.  Using fear and anger and sometimes humour is far more effective especially with folks nowadays who don't have patience or any kind of long attention span. Not only is it effective... it becomes lucrative. 

Because of the election... I've been diversifying my social media portfolio for lack of a better term. I look up right wing pages, conservative politicians, etc. It's neat to see where the algorithms start directing me lol  One lady who seemed fairly popular was ranting and raving about Carney and Trudeau destroying the country. The same old sky is falling and we're all doomed bullshit. Checked a few posts and a few weeks earlier she was bragging and showing off her and her girlfriends vacationing in Whistler living it up. I guess the Liberal economic destruction missed her. lol 

I did notice a pattern with some though.  There is an organization online called "Canada Proud." It's the same right wing, conservative talking points, misinformation, propaganda stuff... with of course a link to donate and a merch store lol. The Trump playbook. 

One thing that Stephen Harper said that resonated with me - is to be skeptical of politicians that speak with a lot of emotionality, because it’s often an act.

I like my politicians the same way I like my news anchors and my hotdogs.... boring. lol     (i only use mustard and mustard only) 

I’m a ketchup on hot dog kind of guy, but I love a good mustard on a great sausage. 

HughFreakingDillon

benjs said:

Parksy said:

benjs said:

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Canadian conservatives aren't far right. If you compare to the US, they aren't even really right. lol. 

To your point, though, Parksy, I'm not excusing the behaviour, but we simply can't expect people to have the same derision towards politicians who haven't been in power, who they don't personally blame for all of their/the country's woes. They haven't been in power in a decade. I think it's natural that there is going to be at least some degree of higher doses of anger towards the party/PM that has had the reigns. 

But you're right. You simply don't hear "c*ntservatives" or anything vile like that on the left that you see on the right. You don't see the level of glee from a liberal when a conservative is hurting like you see when a con has "owned the libs". Some, yes, but nowhere near the same amount. 

It's always interesting to me to hear both sides saying how much hatred their values show. To me it's 100% clear who is more hateful and angry. 

agreed. I think a key X factor here is media. Every form of media.. but in particular non traditional media. YouTube, FC, insta.. you name it.  These outlets are completely unchecked. Folks have become absurdly popular for no other reason other than echoing fearmongering sentiments in the name of a particular 'side.'  And a lot of the public eat it up. 

For those in the know... picture Rhea Perlman's character from Canadian Bacon when she was watching the propaganda news outlets purposely lying and engaging in misinformation to make people against Canada. (talk about foreshadowing) 

While satirical, I think what we were watching then in 1993 I think is now extremely common for everyday people who don't need to wait until the 6 o clock news to get their brain sauce... they get it constantly 24/7.  Mix in algorithms.... and here we are. 

I often chat with people about the differences between Jordan Peterson and Noam Chomsky.  One thing is very, very, very apparent.  Emotion.  Chomsky is dull and pedantic... where as Peterson rose to fame using anger and emotion. Any topic can be discussed and debated.... but usually to do that correctly it requires a substantial amount of time and information.  Using fear and anger and sometimes humour is far more effective especially with folks nowadays who don't have patience or any kind of long attention span. Not only is it effective... it becomes lucrative. 

Because of the election... I've been diversifying my social media portfolio for lack of a better term. I look up right wing pages, conservative politicians, etc. It's neat to see where the algorithms start directing me lol  One lady who seemed fairly popular was ranting and raving about Carney and Trudeau destroying the country. The same old sky is falling and we're all doomed bullshit. Checked a few posts and a few weeks earlier she was bragging and showing off her and her girlfriends vacationing in Whistler living it up. I guess the Liberal economic destruction missed her. lol 

I did notice a pattern with some though.  There is an organization online called "Canada Proud." It's the same right wing, conservative talking points, misinformation, propaganda stuff... with of course a link to donate and a merch store lol. The Trump playbook. 

One thing that Stephen Harper said that resonated with me - is to be skeptical of politicians that speak with a lot of emotionality, because it’s often an act.

I like my politicians the same way I like my news anchors and my hotdogs.... boring. lol     (i only use mustard and mustard only) 

I’m a ketchup on hot dog kind of guy, but I love a good mustard on a great sausage. 

mustard isn't good for you on that part of the body. 

HughFreakingDillon

benjs said:

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Canadian conservatives aren't far right. If you compare to the US, they aren't even really right. lol. 

To your point, though, Parksy, I'm not excusing the behaviour, but we simply can't expect people to have the same derision towards politicians who haven't been in power, who they don't personally blame for all of their/the country's woes. They haven't been in power in a decade. I think it's natural that there is going to be at least some degree of higher doses of anger towards the party/PM that has had the reigns. 

But you're right. You simply don't hear "c*ntservatives" or anything vile like that on the left that you see on the right. You don't see the level of glee from a liberal when a conservative is hurting like you see when a con has "owned the libs". Some, yes, but nowhere near the same amount. 

It's always interesting to me to hear both sides saying how much hatred their values show. To me it's 100% clear who is more hateful and angry. 

agreed. I think a key X factor here is media. Every form of media.. but in particular non traditional media. YouTube, FC, insta.. you name it.  These outlets are completely unchecked. Folks have become absurdly popular for no other reason other than echoing fearmongering sentiments in the name of a particular 'side.'  And a lot of the public eat it up. 

For those in the know... picture Rhea Perlman's character from Canadian Bacon when she was watching the propaganda news outlets purposely lying and engaging in misinformation to make people against Canada. (talk about foreshadowing) 

While satirical, I think what we were watching then in 1993 I think is now extremely common for everyday people who don't need to wait until the 6 o clock news to get their brain sauce... they get it constantly 24/7.  Mix in algorithms.... and here we are. 

I often chat with people about the differences between Jordan Peterson and Noam Chomsky.  One thing is very, very, very apparent.  Emotion.  Chomsky is dull and pedantic... where as Peterson rose to fame using anger and emotion. Any topic can be discussed and debated.... but usually to do that correctly it requires a substantial amount of time and information.  Using fear and anger and sometimes humour is far more effective especially with folks nowadays who don't have patience or any kind of long attention span. Not only is it effective... it becomes lucrative. 

Because of the election... I've been diversifying my social media portfolio for lack of a better term. I look up right wing pages, conservative politicians, etc. It's neat to see where the algorithms start directing me lol  One lady who seemed fairly popular was ranting and raving about Carney and Trudeau destroying the country. The same old sky is falling and we're all doomed bullshit. Checked a few posts and a few weeks earlier she was bragging and showing off her and her girlfriends vacationing in Whistler living it up. I guess the Liberal economic destruction missed her. lol 

I did notice a pattern with some though.  There is an organization online called "Canada Proud." It's the same right wing, conservative talking points, misinformation, propaganda stuff... with of course a link to donate and a merch store lol. The Trump playbook. 

One thing that Stephen Harper said that resonated with me - is to be skeptical of politicians that speak with a lot of emotionality, because it’s often an act.

I know that some thought JT was full of shit, but I found him refreshing in his ability to be emotional. That spoke to me. I don't think he's good enough of an actor to pull that off. 

HughFreakingDillon

I mean, Harper was an asshole, and he was unemotional. 

PJ_Soul

And he had lego hair.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

And he had lego hair.

🤣 

BF89905

Parksy said:

BF89905 said:

Parksy said:

OnWis97 said:

Percentage of Canadians whose vote was impacted by their negative feelings towards Trump? Certainly not zero. Don't say Trump doesn't have coattails...he very well have delivered that victory yesterday.

Trump was a factor well before the 51st state stuff. I said it years ago, months ago, weeks ago..... if a Canadian Conservative Party wants to run Canada... they need to do everything in their power to avoid comparisons to the populist tactics that Trump uses daily. They did not. They lost. 

Exactly. Additionally, Poilievre is an elitist who acts like he's holier than thou. Good on Bruce Fanjoy to unseat him in his Carleton riding. We haven't had any door visits from a provincial or federal candidate in eight years and we live 30 minutes from downtown Toronto. Part of Fanjoy's success story is that he apparently spent significant time the past two years going door-to-door asking for people's support. That's all it took.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnmgL5CZqfs

One of my good friends is in Pierre's riding...  a few days before the election I asked what the scene is like there.  In the 7 or 8 days leading up to the election, he had NINE people at his door campaigning. 5 for Pierre, 4 for Bruce. 

My only thought was 'that must have been crazy annoying'   lol 

Nine campaigners over less than a week would be annoying.   Apparently, it was too late for Pierre's bid to view Fanjoy as a viable competitor. C'est la vie

Parksy

Well... about 15 minutes in, Carney's press conference sounds pretty good to me.  I'm a skeptical person though.. I hope he and his government are held to account and they deliver what he's saying.   But what he's laying out seems quite good. 

Parksy

I'll say this about Carney's speech and conference. Personally.. it's music to my ears but any and all Canadians should of course make sure that this man keeps his word.  However....   that said....   but......  and here's the thing....        based on what he's saying....  he has made it clear that his goals are quite honestly that of the Conservative governments goals. He addressed Polievre's complaints... without making it seem like the fucking sky was falling. 

Axe the Tax.  Stop the Crime. Build the Homes.  

He has now set out measurable goals to push this country of ours forward... and my challenge now to Conservatives is this:  Give this man a chance.    If he, as the PM is more than willing to govern along the same lines as a Conservative platform then what on earth could you possibly have to complain about?  There was no virtue signalling of any kind.  He addressed failures of the last government. He has agreed to slash the shit out of government wasteful spending.    LFG. 

dignin

It really feels like he's the right person for the moment.

Fingers crossed.

brianlux

Thank you, all of the above, for some good education.  I'm glad to know that at least your right wing is not as authoritarian, oligarchical, tyrannical, or as kakistocracy oriented as ours currently is.  I could live so much more peacefully with what you all have than what we have these days.

gimmesometruth27

Parksy said:

I'll say this about Carney's speech and conference. Personally.. it's music to my ears but any and all Canadians should of course make sure that this man keeps his word.  However....   that said....   but......  and here's the thing....        based on what he's saying....  he has made it clear that his goals are quite honestly that of the Conservative governments goals. He addressed Polievre's complaints... without making it seem like the fucking sky was falling. 

Axe the Tax.  Stop the Crime. Build the Homes.  

He has now set out measurable goals to push this country of ours forward... and my challenge now to Conservatives is this:  Give this man a chance.    If he, as the PM is more than willing to govern along the same lines as a Conservative platform then what on earth could you possibly have to complain about?  There was no virtue signalling of any kind.  He addressed failures of the last government. He has agreed to slash the shit out of government wasteful spending.    LFG. 

how many times did he say he will take care of things very quickly, and how he has been treated very unfairly?

that is pretty much all we hear from leadership here in the us.

Parksy

gimmesometruth27 said:

Parksy said:

I'll say this about Carney's speech and conference. Personally.. it's music to my ears but any and all Canadians should of course make sure that this man keeps his word.  However....   that said....   but......  and here's the thing....        based on what he's saying....  he has made it clear that his goals are quite honestly that of the Conservative governments goals. He addressed Polievre's complaints... without making it seem like the fucking sky was falling. 

Axe the Tax.  Stop the Crime. Build the Homes.  

He has now set out measurable goals to push this country of ours forward... and my challenge now to Conservatives is this:  Give this man a chance.    If he, as the PM is more than willing to govern along the same lines as a Conservative platform then what on earth could you possibly have to complain about?  There was no virtue signalling of any kind.  He addressed failures of the last government. He has agreed to slash the shit out of government wasteful spending.    LFG. 

how many times did he say he will take care of things very quickly, and how he has been treated very unfairly?

that is pretty much all we hear from leadership here in the us.

No disrespect intended... you don't have leadership in America...  you have a man who I'm not sure passes as a basic, normal human being running / ruining the most powerful country in the world. 

HughFreakingDillon

just watched it. a whole lot of ambition there. I do like he had a few specific target dates instead of "we will". And I liked the mesh of liberal and conservative wants. In the middle exactly where a PM should be. 

I'm optimistic.