Canadian Politics Redux

DarthMaeglin

This is more than a little confusing when juxtaposed against the (in a practical sense uninterrupted) funding of UNRWA (and its clear links to Hamas’ terrorism).

Then again, it took our government how many months to figure out that sexual violence occurred on October 7, I guess they missed all the videos that were livestreamed or subsequently posted, for fuck’s sake.

https://apple.news/AtDYRoKIZTpmaFd6NCVPftw

DarthMaeglin

And now it’s looking more and more like the Liberal government is actively persecuting journalist David Menzies for doing his job, using the tools of the state, unless this is some incredibly shoddy journalism and it turns out Menzies threw a punch or something.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/rebel-news-reporter-one-of-two-arrested-at-protest-that-delayed-trudeau-event

DarthMaeglin

It is feeling more and more like the Trudeau Liberals have more support for terrorists than they do our democratic allies. Sure, the Liberals watered down the NDP motion somewhat but calling for ending military trade with Israel while pledging continued funding for UNRWA speaks volumes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-government-palestinian-statehood-motion-1.7148387

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

It is feeling more and more like the Trudeau Liberals have more support for terrorists than they do our democratic allies. Sure, the Liberals watered down the NDP motion somewhat but calling for ending military trade with Israel while pledging continued funding for UNRWA speaks volumes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-government-palestinian-statehood-motion-1.7148387

Trudeau is... and will continue to do... everything to stay in power. No different than most politicians. 

Flip flopping with the  Israel / Palestine issue is decent proof of that.  He needs (now more than ever with Pierre's forthcoming motion of non confidence) Jagmeet's NDP.  

That said... another important fact that gets often dismissed by those who hate him is that he won his mandate in a democratic election. His woke-ness, his carbon tax, and his pandering is nothing new since the last election. Even his scandals are nothing new.  And while those who vote Conservative and PPC REALLY, REALLY don't like that.... those who voted Liberal and NDP are obviously ok with it. 

To Darth.. please don't take this as an insult or meant to be disrespectful.... but when you suggest that the "Trudeau Liberals" are yadda yadda... you're not seeing the forest through the trees. "Trudeau's Liberals" are being held up by Jagmeet's NDP. I consider Jagmeet to be Prime Minister #2 at this point... and he has been for a while now. 

***As an aside....   I find it remarkably comical how much and what Trudeau gets blamed for in this country... by social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, the conservative party, and the yokels who wave the F Trudeau flags.  Zero clue about the man and what he is doing and how he is doing it. Zero clue about political strategy. Zero clue about our electoral system. 

Love him, hate him, etc. one would be super dumb not to see that he is a good politician (SUPER greasy). That's not meant to be a compliment to him... it's just a fact. You don't wake up and win three elections without having some savvy to go along with your nepotism. 

It's got zero to do with 'supporting terrorism' .... and honestly the more people who hate him start to admit that he is a good politician ... the quicker they (Conservatives) will be to beating him in an election.  Trudeau is playing chess, while everyone who hates him... is playing checkers. (IMO, no disrespect intended.) 

Speaking of Pierre's motion.....  and boy would I love an audience larger than Darth here.... this is what I'm talking about. Checkers / Chess.  This guy (Pierre) stands up on a platform, bitching and whining and complaining..... every day about Trudeau. Trudeau Trudeau Trudeau Trudeau.  Blame Blame Blame. Getting his right wing base fired up... talking about Axe the Tax, Spike the Hike, trying to force an election.  And his followers are eating this shit up. And what's gonna happen? Another loss. The motion will be voted down, and he'll be left sitting there the powerless Leader of the Opposition. 

I don't care what the media and the Nanos polls are saying.  Pierre isn't doing enough to get the 1.5 - 2 million voters who went Left to now support him on the Right. 

Regarding your....  I'm not even sure what to call it... statement about the "Trudeau Liberals" persecuting a journalist....  What? Huh?  Proof? Evidence? Anything?  I read in your story that the Toronto Police arrested and charged a couple people with crimes. Where am I wrong here? Where is the anything even close to a smoking gun with regards to any collusion between Trudeau and the Toronto Police Department? And I do mean anything. 

That said... I call your blanket, non-backed up statement suggesting that we live in some sort of Police State where Trudeau secretly is running Toronto Police.... all of which comes with zero evidence... and I raise you this:   Pierre Polievre, the man who is supposed to replace Trudeau.. is now ON RECORD... and QUOTED as saying the he wants to have members of a private company associated with the ArriveCAN fiasco ARRESTED by police and PHYSICALLY DRAGGED into the commons to answer questions. Quoted. He said that. That's not good. Not even a little bit. You may agree with him.   But how do the 1.5 - 2 million voters that HE NEEDS... how do they (me) feel about it? 

Parksy

To Darth... in an effort to be somewhat impartial here... I did what I instantly regretted doing.. I watched Rebel News. 

Now... to a certain degree... can it be suggested that the police in the clip were not professional? Perhaps. It drives me crazy when I see cops trying to block cameras.  You shouldn't have anything to hide.  At the same time...... to be fair... whether I'm a cop or a carpenter... it would drive me bonkers to have someone waving a camera in my face while I work. 

Could it be even remotely suggested that this was a political black op arrest? Oh my goodness graciousness no.  Not even close. Making the jump from 'possibly, potentially' unprofessional police work (From Toronto Police no less)  to our federal government engaging in a politcal hit job.... exists in the realm of Coo Coo Bananas conspiracy theories. 

BY... THE... WAY...  the suggestion that Trudeau or the Liberals wanted this to happen is to suggest that they feel like David Menzies and Rebel Media are in some way a threat to them.  That's pretty stupid in my opinion.

I'd like to add this for flavour if I may...  Toronto Police showcased some of the worst... and I mean worst police work during the G20 summit of 2009 or 2010....  illegally arresting and illegally holding a whole bunch of citizens and yes... members of the media. At the time, Harper was PM.  But... I'm guessing this too was Trudeau's mastermind doing? 

What I did notice are a couple of things that someone of your ilk should take note of: 

1) When a "Media Company" throws up websites and asks for your money to support their legal bills... just say no. Full stop. Nope. Please don't give them your money. Save it for an expensive Pearl Jam show. lol

2) David Menzies appears to be a Grade A clown.  He approaches the protesters from the get-go. That is very important. And it is the cause of police interference, make no mistake about that.  When he approaches the group of protesters, they are clearly, clearly, clearly not interested in being interviewed by him. They calmly and peacefully ask him to go away and not bother them. Instead of doing so, he holds his ground in front of them.  This is what I at least and I'm assuming the police also took as antagonizing activity.   This is where things get murky in terms of the law and police powers. Could he (and in his mind, he obviously thought he could) could he then basically have his own little private protest on the street?  Maybe. That could have very well been his right. Then again, with his camera crew and pointing microphones at the other protesters, it's safe to assume he wasn't there to protest.  So the cops ask him to back away from the protesters... which to me is an OBVIOUS method of de-escalating and removing an OBVIIOUS person who means to antagonize. They did so with a small amount of force (again... can they do that? I'm really not sure). Menzies then resists. In this moment....  if the cops did have the right to remove him, and he resisted, that's illegal and he is subject to arrest.  If he later failed to ID himself properly even once or gave them a hard time about it, also subject to arrest.    He reminds me of a sovereign citizen. 

3) It's my belief... without evidence.. just belief that what you and I witnessed... is EXACTLY what they wanted to have happen.  These clowns do not look like journalists to me... they look and sound like shit disturbers.  And personally, they are the exact people you DON'T want at a pro-palestine protest.  Looking at this from a different lens...   if this was the Freedom Convoy and you had an obvious and known left wing, pro Trudeau ass hat approaching all of the F Trudeau protesters.....  I hope the police would zero in on that person as well... as they are likely there to cause trouble. 

4) The desperate Rebel Media man who asked for your money... is also heard commenting about how the streets of Toronto seemed more like Iran and that this was Sharia Law.   That's not journalism. That's not fact based.  That is misinformation and fearmongering. 

You do you.... but some advice if I may:  If someone, anyone asks you for money, while at the same time trying to make you  afraid of something... avoid that thing and be skeptical of it at all times.  Investigative journalism is the bedrock of any democracy. I want journalists all over the police and Trudeau and all governments.   These guys are not investigative journalists. They're performance clowns who would fit in better at a circus.  The 'story' you're up in arms about... was created by them. They didn't discover it. 

Zod

I do find it amusing we all argue about the different leaders and options, when statistically speaking, all 3 of them are most likely to leave office with the country in worse shape when they inherited it.

I still stand by my argument, that Cons, NDP, or Liberals won't or can't solve our current woes.  We basically elect scapegoats

Parksy

Zod said:

I do find it amusing we all argue about the different leaders and options, when statistically speaking, all 3 of them ore most likely to leave office with the country in worse shape when they inherited.

I still stand by my argument, than Cons, NDP, or Liberals will or can solve our current woes.  We basically elect scapegoats

that is correct lol 

I don't know enough about the world to know if there is a better governing system... but between us and the USA,  it's a never ending cycle of failure and blame, failure and blame. One thing does seem fairly consistent though,  the rich get richer and politicians all seem happy and comfortable. 

Parksy

So... about Polievre getting booted from the House. 

What an absolute clown show.  I'm not sure I've ever watched Question Period and thought "Wow, what a productive session, super proud to be Canadian."  This one was arguably the worst yet. 

Something really needs to give here. Both of our leaders were completely in the wrong, and the Speaker was also completely in the wrong (not to mention seemingly incompetent and can barely speak in public proper.)  I think he had reason to boot Pierre, to be clear.... but you can't let the PM call the Leader of the Opposition "spineless" without asking him to withdraw and then require the Leader of the Opposition to withdraw after he calls the PM a "wacko." 

Both leaders had an opportunity to set a much better tone, and both failed. Both leaders had an opportunity to debate facts, and they both failed. As far as I'm concerned, Trudeau cannot step up to a mic and say that Pierre is the one driving a wedge between Canadians, when he's doing the exact same thing.  If he wants to portray Pierre as an asshole (which he is) ... he cannot keep doing asshole things (which he is doing.) 

PJ_Soul

Agree. I am glad I voted NDP right now, lol.

HughFreakingDillon

I'm interested to hear from the "trudeau is a dictator" crowd reconciles Pollievre's announcement that he will use the notwithstanding clause for various means. I'm guessing it will be an answer that will contain phrases like "well Trudeau opened the door" or words like "goose" and "gander". 

HughFreakingDillon

he literally said the phrase "my laws" in his speech. anyone who has criticized anything trudeau has done that makes them feel like he does things that go against democratic norms or takes away people's freedoms, you better speak up. 

erebus

Not a fan of JT and less so PP.
In PP’s case I think it is more akin to Trump. Stick everything he can to JT, will say anything ,has no real platform, hangs with the “extremist right wingers” all in a ploy to rile his base and fundraise for his war chest. 

I think and would hope the majority are attuned to this, but the JT fatigue is strong and PP could very well be the next PM. Then we will see a shit show.

Zod

erebus said:

Not a fan of JT and less so PP.
In PP’s case I think it is more akin to Trump. Stick everything he can to JT, will say anything ,has no real platform, hangs with the “extremist right wingers” all in a ploy to rile his base and fundraise for his war chest. 

I think and would hope the majority are attuned to this, but the JT fatigue is strong and PP could very well be the next PM. Then we will see a shit show.

I think Pierre doesn't have to do much.  He just has to ride the anti Trudeau wave.  He doesn't even need a platform at this point.

I also don't think we're in a situation where it matters.  Both of them if elected would most likely leave Canada in worse shape than they inherited.  There's no picking one, and it turns out better.   I don't think it really matters who we elect at this point.

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'm interested to hear from the "trudeau is a dictator" crowd reconciles Pollievre's announcement that he will use the notwithstanding clause for various means. I'm guessing it will be an answer that will contain phrases like "well Trudeau opened the door" or words like "goose" and "gander". 

Could you kindly provide us a link with the full quote and its proper context?

Edit:  Is this it?

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7193180

DarthMaeglin

To be fair, the notwithstanding clause is one of the few autocratic measures that the Trudeau Liberals have not (yet) employed.

PJ_Soul

I'll take Trudeau over Pollievre any day. Pollievre uses Trump-like tactics that make me way more nervous about the future of politics and our society, and since he's not going to help Canada any more in any way compared to Trudeau and will create more harm to the environment compared to Trudeau, and since Con MPs will likely do more harm than Liberal ones in a general sense, I think there is still a clear choice between the two. Even rich people, while most will vote Conservative, can't put their fingers on how Pollievre is actually going to help them, despite how much they think Trudeau has hurt them, so that is saying a lot.

DarthMaeglin

So it seems that what happened was that Poilievre was addressing an Ontario police association when he suggested that there were legislative options to pass legislation dealing specifically with the issue of bail. CBC’s story has it right that he hinted at the notwithstanding clause, but didn’t actually use the words.

The “my laws” phrase was actually him taking ownership of his government’s future actions, one could say.

Poilievre’s full quotes can be found in the link I provided above.

I might suggest then that the discussion is more appropriately framed as such:  Is the notwithstanding clause an appropriate tool to address the clear issues plaguing Canada’s bail system (editorializing, thanks to overly lenient court rulings)?

HughFreakingDillon

if Trudeau even HINTED at using the notwithstanding clause you'd lose your shit. let's be honest here. 

HughFreakingDillon

.

HughFreakingDillon

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'm interested to hear from the "trudeau is a dictator" crowd reconciles Pollievre's announcement that he will use the notwithstanding clause for various means. I'm guessing it will be an answer that will contain phrases like "well Trudeau opened the door" or words like "goose" and "gander". 

DarthMaeglin said:

To be fair, the notwithstanding clause is one of the few autocratic measures that the Trudeau Liberals have not (yet) employed.

that sure didn't take long. haha