Canadian Politics Redux

DarthMaeglin

Fuck Trudeau and his revisionist history. Speaking at the Liberal caucus, he’s playing fast and loose with the facts, both regarding the Conservatives and his own family history.

 He just implied that daddy Pierre fought for Canada in WWII, while in fact Pierre was riding around Montreal on his motorcycle wearing fascist gear (not Nazi). As someone who’s family sent 4 sons and a son-in-law to fight (fortunately they all came home) this false implication is (and let’s be honest, should be) offensive.

It would also be nice if he used such strong language about Hamas as he does about the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Edit: His exact words were “when OUR (bolding is mine) fathers and grandfathers were fighting in World War II.”

DarthMaeglin

I stand corrected, daddy Pierre served but over two years didn’t make it overseas.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Canada_by_military_service#:~:text=The%20last%20prime%20minister%20to,Canadian%20Army%2C%20or%20the%20CEF.

It’s not clear when his ride in fascist gear fits around his military service, probably during the time he spent protesting conscription.

Edit: As I think about it further it’s probably for the best that Pierre didn’t make it overseas given his well-established history of opposition to the war (and also democracy), as long as he was kept away from any sensitive communications.

DarthMaeglin

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ed-broadbent-funeral-1.7091098

DarthMaeglin

So it seems that we’re moving towards a scenario where no politician shall be protested to their face because every protest is now deemed a threat (there is nothing shown in this case that comes close to a threat)? And at the same time journalists can be accosted by security details while simply performing their job?

How the fuck is this deemed acceptable (using the progressive barometer that silence is assent) in our democracy?!?

And don’t forget that if we let this stand then there can be no complaints when the pendulum swings the other way (even though we did just that when truckers did what others had done).

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-security-threat-against-trudeau-all-of-canadas-concern

Zod

DarthMaeglin said:

So it seems that we’re moving towards a scenario where no politician shall be protested to their face because every protest is now deemed a threat (there is nothing shown in this case that comes close to a threat)? And at the same time journalists can be accosted by security details while simply performing their job?

How the fuck is this deemed acceptable (using the progressive barometer that silence is assent) in our democracy?!?

And don’t forget that if we let this stand then there can be no complaints when the pendulum swings the other way (even though we did just that when truckers did what others had done).

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-security-threat-against-trudeau-all-of-canadas-concern

What I couldn't tell in that video edit, was what they were the swarming.  They put Trudeau in a black SUV looking vehicle that took off, there's a rough edit, and those people are running up to a sedan looking car.

Generally if people are swarming the vehicle the leader of your government is in, you've got issues.    That's shitty security.  If that happened in the US, and the president got swarmed in vehicle, I think the secret service wouldn't be so nice about it.

DarthMaeglin

Zod said:

DarthMaeglin said:

So it seems that we’re moving towards a scenario where no politician shall be protested to their face because every protest is now deemed a threat (there is nothing shown in this case that comes close to a threat)? And at the same time journalists can be accosted by security details while simply performing their job?

How the fuck is this deemed acceptable (using the progressive barometer that silence is assent) in our democracy?!?

And don’t forget that if we let this stand then there can be no complaints when the pendulum swings the other way (even though we did just that when truckers did what others had done).

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-security-threat-against-trudeau-all-of-canadas-concern

What I couldn't tell in that video edit, was what they were the swarming.  They put Trudeau in a black SUV looking vehicle that took off, there's a rough edit, and those people are running up to a sedan looking car.

Generally if people are swarming the vehicle the leader of your government is in, you've got issues.    That's shitty security.  If that happened in the US, and the president got swarmed in vehicle, I think the secret service wouldn't be so nice about it.

One of the descriptions of the incident I read had the RCMP put Trudeau in the lead car which apparently had a clearer avenue of escape, then the remaining officers piled into the other SUV which the group did move towards while continuing their chant.

But is the default position that any chanting crowd is a threat (it could potentially be, I have to allow)? Based on the Freeland-Menzies encounter I can’t really say the RCMP are exercising overly sound judgment. It would be interesting to hear from the RCMP as to whether they even perceived a threat (it is a columnist’s characterization that I’m moreso reacting to).

I realize this isn’t a popular sentiment around here but could all this hostility being shown towards the sitting government be a reflection of policies that could easily be called contentious, coupled with an administration that has made clear it has zero interest in considering those opposed to its policies?

And when and where is it appropriate to protest public figures and issues? About the only line I personally draw is “don’t go to their home” (something our Minister of the Environment disagrees with me on after he terrorized Ralph Klein’s wife, Ralph not even being home as Guilbeault was climbing all over the roof).

DarthMaeglin

The more I think about it the RCMP didn't really do anything wrong and in fact were probably following their own protocols. It really is just Warmington's characterization of an angry (or is it even just a loud? ) group of protesters as being a threat by default that's troubling to me.

Zod

yah.. like it's probably bad security protocol to let anybody that doesn't have clearance within X amount meters near your government leader.   You want to keep them at distance in case someone does something unexpected.

We've never really had great security in this country.   Didn't Cretien have someone break into the official residence with a knife back in the day?  Way to go RCMP.

Theoretically they should of scoped what was out that door before Trudeau walked outside, that's a pretty big fail.  Should of checked and then come up with a different exit strategy to avoid confrontation.

DarthMaeglin

Zod said:

yah.. like it's probably bad security protocol to let anybody that doesn't have clearance within X amount meters near your government leader.   You want to keep them at distance in case someone does something unexpected.

We've never really had great security in this country.   Didn't Cretien have someone break into the official residence with a knife back in the day?  Way to go RCMP.

Theoretically they should of scoped what was out that door before Trudeau walked outside, that's a pretty big fail.  Should of checked and then come up with a different exit strategy to avoid confrontation.

Pretty much completely agree, lol.

If I remember right Chretien’s wife fended off the intruder or something with an Inuit carving.

I was going to crack wise earlier that the days of Chretien choking a protester are long gone, lol (though that may be an example of a security breakdown).

Parksy

Zod said:

yah.. like it's probably bad security protocol to let anybody that doesn't have clearance within X amount meters near your government leader.   You want to keep them at distance in case someone does something unexpected.

We've never really had great security in this country.   Didn't Cretien have someone break into the official residence with a knife back in the day?  Way to go RCMP.

Theoretically they should of scoped what was out that door before Trudeau walked outside, that's a pretty big fail.  Should of checked and then come up with a different exit strategy to avoid confrontation.

I used to find it almost romantic in Canada that yes, certainly, we don't have great security here for our political leaders.  I liked that. Because ultimately we didn't really need it. 

Disclaimer... I do indeed regret and feel ashamed about the following story... but it is what it is.  When I was like 16 or 17 I found myself very intoxicated in Ottawa.... and in my drunken stupor, walked up to the parliament building and urinated on centre block.  Yes, extremely disrespectful and I am very sorry about doing it. Very sorry. 

That said......  it was neat. To me at least.  And I have no idea if it's still the same today as it was that many years ago, but it was neat that I could indeed do that.  Just walk right up to the building.... and do what I did with no one really watching or caring. 

Nowadays, yeah I think we do need more security and with good reason.  But that makes me sad. 

Regarding the 'threat' of not being able to protest etc....  no one should be swarming a politician.  In my personal (likely off based) opinion... the issue isn't so much our lack of security or the fault of the RCMP...   it's the general feeling of the public here.  I draw a direct line that connects the following things: 

1. People like Tucker Carlson and Jordan Peterson do nothing but stoke fear and irrational hatred towards Canada and Trudeau and a lot of people drink  that stuff like coffee every day. 

2. That leads to people flying "F Trudeau" flags from their vehicles and their houses. 

3. That leads to a growing almost cult like mentality of hatred towards politicians. 

4. That leads to people feeling empowered to angerly approach our politicians and/or throw things at them. 

The reason we look at the RCMP as a failure and our lack of security is certainly valid, but I can't help also blame the people who are irresponsibly stoking fear and hatred for their own gain. 

This isn't good. And to me at the heart of this... are the two D-Bags and everyone like them at the on set who are doing these things for one reason and one reason only:  $$$. 

It's really quite simple...  don't like a politician? Vote them out. Feel so strongly about something and can't wait to vote? Grab a sign and march  your way to the closest government building and protest peacefully. Or, use your voice via letter, email, social media. None of these things have any emotional undertones in it at all. 

HughFreakingDillon

anyone who has a "F Trudeau" or any other politician bumper sticker or flag has the intelligence of a gnat.  

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

anyone who has a "F Trudeau" or any other politician bumper sticker or flag has the intelligence of a gnat.  

So is anyone who is a member of a political party a moron to you? Do you suggest banning such expressions or keep them to identify the morons and you can steer clear of them?

Fuck Trudeau didn't come out of nowhere,  it took years of scandals and controversial policy for people to get this angry.  And Trudeau himself is acting as divider-in-chief, especially these days.

HughFreakingDillon

once again, a small step for HFD, one giant leap for Darth. 

I never once said, nor even came close to inferring, that anyone who is a member of a political party is a moron. where in the fuck did you get that from? do you understand now why I have stopped engaging with you?

DarthMaeglin

I’m sorry but in my mind a person who (usually) pays for an official membership to join a political party is just as much a koolaid drinker (if we’re putting them down) as a flag waver or bumper sticker affixer. I think that’s more or less what you were inferring about the flags and stickers, or do you truly think those people stupid?

I have to admit that I get offended by your sweeping put downs and I guess I have to learn to just let them slide.

DarthMaeglin

Ho-hum,  just business as usual for the Trudeau Liberals. 

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/arrivecan-app-so-poorly-managed-auditor-general-can-only-guess-the-cost

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

I’m sorry but in my mind a person who (usually) pays for an official membership to join a political party is just as much a koolaid drinker (if we’re putting them down) as a flag waver or bumper sticker affixer. I think that’s more or less what you were inferring about the flags and stickers, or do you truly think those people stupid?

I have to admit that I get offended by your sweeping put downs and I guess I have to learn to just let them slide.

if you read would read what I actually write, instead of falling over yourself trying to infer something, I said anyone who adorns their vehicle with a classless flag/sticker such as FUCK TRUDEAU, REGARDLESS OF PARTY, they are idiots. putting a curse word on your car towards any living person or group justifies my so-called "sweeping put downs". 

same goes with those stupid Calvin urinating on (insert logo). or anything of the like. I think it shows a basic lack of maturity. 

HughFreakingDillon

my father in law is a card carrying member of the NDP. has been since his career-ending injury in construction. is it because he's a kool aid drinker? nope. he's a very intelligent man. his "make or break" issue is he stands firm with unions/workers. full stop. that's it. I can respect that. it even trumps his catholic ideology. 

that's why I've never subscribed to the "everyone who voted trump is a racist" garbage. Some people just can't vote liberal. they are conservatives to the bone, and they'd vote for the fucking devil if he was on the ticket. 

your attempts to pigeonhole me into some trudeau loving anticonservative is misguided (at best). something you'd probably consider much more insulting at worst. 

HughFreakingDillon

the fact that you seem to have equated a "fuck trudeau" sticker or flag with just any old political bumper sticker shows just how far down the hate hole you've gone. lol

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

the fact that you seem to have equated a "fuck trudeau" sticker or flag with just any old political bumper sticker shows just how far down the hate hole you've gone. lol

Down the hate hole, nice.

Again,  "Fuck Trudeau" didn't arise out of a vacuum.  And is a valid expression to me. Charter agrees with me, I believe. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I’m sorry but in my mind a person who (usually) pays for an official membership to join a political party is just as much a koolaid drinker (if we’re putting them down) as a flag waver or bumper sticker affixer. I think that’s more or less what you were inferring about the flags and stickers, or do you truly think those people stupid?

I have to admit that I get offended by your sweeping put downs and I guess I have to learn to just let them slide.

if you read would read what I actually write, instead of falling over yourself trying to infer something, I said anyone who adorns their vehicle with a classless flag/sticker such as FUCK TRUDEAU, REGARDLESS OF PARTY, they are idiots. putting a curse word on your car towards any living person or group justifies my so-called "sweeping put downs". 

same goes with those stupid Calvin urinating on (insert logo). or anything of the like. I think it shows a basic lack of maturity. 

Read what you initially wrote. 

Do I own a fuck Trudeau flag? No. Could I see myself buying one?  Why not?  So therefore I have the intelligence of a gnat.