Canadian Politics Redux

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

if Trudeau even HINTED at using the notwithstanding clause you'd lose your shit. let's be honest here. 

I honestly don’t know, but I sure as shit wouldn’t misrepresent things the way your initial posts did. Certainly sorely lacking any context.

So what about my last question then?

Personally I do wonder if the notwithstanding clause is one of the last remaining tools to the government in order to work against what could be characterized as judicial activism. Another option could be the appointment of more “conservative” judges but how would such a policy sit with you, Hugh?

I can’t speak to the bail system elsewhere but here in Toronto last week a guy committed a robbery and ended up killing 3 other people in a wrongway crash on a major highway. The CBC were all over the police response the other night, then the next day it broke that the individual was out on bail when this tragedy occurred, and it’s a regular occurrence locally.

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is definitely a good thing but needs more limits regarding those who have broken the social contract and engaged in criminal activities.

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'm interested to hear from the "trudeau is a dictator" crowd reconciles Pollievre's announcement that he will use the notwithstanding clause for various means. I'm guessing it will be an answer that will contain phrases like "well Trudeau opened the door" or words like "goose" and "gander". 

DarthMaeglin said:

To be fair, the notwithstanding clause is one of the few autocratic measures that the Trudeau Liberals have not (yet) employed.

that sure didn't take long. haha

Wtf? I try to cut Trudeau some slack and you choose to piss on it, nice.

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'm interested to hear from the "trudeau is a dictator" crowd reconciles Pollievre's announcement that he will use the notwithstanding clause for various means. I'm guessing it will be an answer that will contain phrases like "well Trudeau opened the door" or words like "goose" and "gander". 

DarthMaeglin said:

To be fair, the notwithstanding clause is one of the few autocratic measures that the Trudeau Liberals have not (yet) employed.

that sure didn't take long. haha

The more I consider this response, I feel like I should congratulate you on a successful trolling operation.

 I’m going to do my best not to engage you anymore except to correct any disinformation you post in the future (you’ve lost the benefit of the doubt that you don’t know better).

DarthMaeglin

This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).

How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?

It seems a reminder is needed.

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

So it seems that what happened was that Poilievre was addressing an Ontario police association when he suggested that there were legislative options to pass legislation dealing specifically with the issue of bail. CBC’s story has it right that he hinted at the notwithstanding clause, but didn’t actually use the words.

The “my laws” phrase was actually him taking ownership of his government’s future actions, one could say.

Poilievre’s full quotes can be found in the link I provided above.

I might suggest then that the discussion is more appropriately framed as such:  Is the notwithstanding clause an appropriate tool to address the clear issues plaguing Canada’s bail system (editorializing, thanks to overly lenient court rulings)?

Two things;  Yes he is on record saying he would use the notwithstanding clause. He said something along the lines of 'i will use whatever means necessary as granted by the constitution to change the constitution'  which I found hilarious.  Two... he is not only on record, but literally tried to put a bill through the House demanding the arrest and physical presentation of the two fellows behind the ArriveCan fiasco. 

I'm on board with his criticism of the ArriveCan B.S.  but his rhetoric is going to get himself within the crosshairs of political irony and extreme hypocrisy if he keeps this crap up.  For what it's worth to any conservative or anti-trudeau person out there.... the problem with that, is it gives trudeau ammo to use against him.  

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).

How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?

It seems a reminder is needed.

Couple more things lol ...

People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it. 

I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means..  but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support.   I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. 

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).

How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?

It seems a reminder is needed.

Couple more things lol ...

People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it. 

I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means..  but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support.   I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. 

Regarding all the fear around PP and gay rights, I simply point to his deputy leader, Melissa Lantsman, an open lesbian. Besides the fact that several Conservative leaders in succession have all asserted that those issues are closed (yet for some reason they are asked about it daily on the campaign trail).

Please clearly show a direct link between the federal Conservatives and these “far right groups”. There’s been a lot of (I would call successful) fearmongering by the Trudeauites in this regard, I believe.

As regards blackface, yes, he apologized, but has done any penance or atonement? By his own admission he worked to keep it hidden all those years, which speaks directly to his integrity, and the India trip showed he hadn’t learned yet that it is wrong. Some can move past this (or even justify it as has been done here), but some of us haven’t. Those pictures would have ended any right-leaning politician’s career, but somehow Justin’s is accepted (what about all the people who were chastised for insensitive costumes before Justin’s adult blackface? Are they being apologized to?). Didn’t drama Justin learn that Sir Laurence Olivier took heat for performing Othello in blackface? In the 60s?

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).

How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?

It seems a reminder is needed.

Couple more things lol ...

People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it. 

I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means..  but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support.   I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. 

Regarding all the fear around PP and gay rights, I simply point to his deputy leader, Melissa Lantsman, an open lesbian. Besides the fact that several Conservative leaders in succession have all asserted that those issues are closed (yet for some reason they are asked about it daily on the campaign trail).

Please clearly show a direct link between the federal Conservatives and these “far right groups”. There’s been a lot of (I would call successful) fearmongering by the Trudeauites in this regard, I believe.

As regards blackface, yes, he apologized, but has done any penance or atonement? By his own admission he worked to keep it hidden all those years, which speaks directly to his integrity, and the India trip showed he hadn’t learned yet that it is wrong. Some can move past this (or even justify it as has been done here), but some of us haven’t. Those pictures would have ended any right-leaning politician’s career, but somehow Justin’s is accepted (what about all the people who were chastised for insensitive costumes before Justin’s adult blackface? Are they being apologized to?). Didn’t drama Justin learn that Sir Laurence Olivier took heat for performing Othello in blackface? In the 60s?

Regarding his characterization of being cozy with the far right... to your point, there is no 'direct link' which is why I say he's cozy with them, but not with them.  He maintains an arms length.  It's not all that indifferent than the populist downstairs, Trump. 

Like Biden did during the debates in 2020, he put him right on the stand nationally asking him to downright condemn the Proud Boys... which he of course could not do. Trudeau is using the same tactic as Biden.  He sees the subtle dog whistling and the crowd he keeps... and then he baits him.  Diagolon, Alex Jones, Freedom Convoy, Jordan Peterson... Trudeau is calling Pierre out and saying 'Hey you... I see you're getting support from Diagolon and Alex Jones, etc. and asking him to speak on it.' Pierre doesn't.  Which is smart for a couple reasons... but again also gives Trudeau ammo. The silence is deafening. 

And it's not make belief fear mongering... he's on record saying he wishes Canada was more anglo-saxon, he has done interviews with Peterson, he has met and shook hands with people who support or are a part of Diagolon and of course his support of the Freedom Convoy. 

To be clear... it ain't like Trudeau is squeaky clean either. Which is why he should be easy to beat in an election... but the more Pierre panders to the right and keeps them at arms length (in an effort not to lose too many of them to the ridiculous PPC) he risks not gaining the left-centre vote that he needs.   

Consider this if you want Trudeau gone so bad.  If Alex Jones is publicly supporting Pierre from the States, that's not good. And it crushes the notions that people like me are just buying into the 'fearmongering' you speak of. 

With the blackface stuff... If an old photo of Pierre came out tomorrow where he doned the blackface but owned it and apologized for it, I would not be here criticizing him for it. 

Finally..  I do understand where you can see folks like me as simply pro trudeau, anti pierre.   I'm not. I don't like Trudeau. The list of his fuck ups do in deed outweigh Pierre's by just about any metric.   But looking at an impending election as just another chapter in the ongoing culture war between left and right...  Pierre ought to start figuring out that like it or not, as a country we are more woke than not, we are more left than not.  That's not opinion, and you're not just seeing it here because this is a PJ forum..... that's our voting history of the last ten years. As mentioned above, beyond his just dooshy persona... he's doing things and saying things that are making the left not like him.  That's a terrible idea, and it seems completely unnecessary. People won't vote to support Trudeau. They'll vote to stop Pierre because of this stuff. Trudeau knows that. 

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).

How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?

It seems a reminder is needed.

Couple more things lol ...

People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it. 

I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means..  but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support.   I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. 

Regarding all the fear around PP and gay rights, I simply point to his deputy leader, Melissa Lantsman, an open lesbian. Besides the fact that several Conservative leaders in succession have all asserted that those issues are closed (yet for some reason they are asked about it daily on the campaign trail).

Please clearly show a direct link between the federal Conservatives and these “far right groups”. There’s been a lot of (I would call successful) fearmongering by the Trudeauites in this regard, I believe.

As regards blackface, yes, he apologized, but has done any penance or atonement? By his own admission he worked to keep it hidden all those years, which speaks directly to his integrity, and the India trip showed he hadn’t learned yet that it is wrong. Some can move past this (or even justify it as has been done here), but some of us haven’t. Those pictures would have ended any right-leaning politician’s career, but somehow Justin’s is accepted (what about all the people who were chastised for insensitive costumes before Justin’s adult blackface? Are they being apologized to?). Didn’t drama Justin learn that Sir Laurence Olivier took heat for performing Othello in blackface? In the 60s?

Regarding his characterization of being cozy with the far right... to your point, there is no 'direct link' which is why I say he's cozy with them, but not with them.  He maintains an arms length.  It's not all that indifferent than the populist downstairs, Trump. 

Like Biden did during the debates in 2020, he put him right on the stand nationally asking him to downright condemn the Proud Boys... which he of course could not do. Trudeau is using the same tactic as Biden.  He sees the subtle dog whistling and the crowd he keeps... and then he baits him.  Diagolon, Alex Jones, Freedom Convoy, Jordan Peterson... Trudeau is calling Pierre out and saying 'Hey you... I see you're getting support from Diagolon and Alex Jones, etc. and asking him to speak on it.' Pierre doesn't.  Which is smart for a couple reasons... but again also gives Trudeau ammo. The silence is deafening. 

And it's not make belief fear mongering... he's on record saying he wishes Canada was more anglo-saxon, he has done interviews with Peterson, he has met and shook hands with people who support or are a part of Diagolon and of course his support of the Freedom Convoy. 

To be clear... it ain't like Trudeau is squeaky clean either. Which is why he should be easy to beat in an election... but the more Pierre panders to the right and keeps them at arms length (in an effort not to lose too many of them to the ridiculous PPC) he risks not gaining the left-centre vote that he needs.   

Consider this if you want Trudeau gone so bad.  If Alex Jones is publicly supporting Pierre from the States, that's not good. And it crushes the notions that people like me are just buying into the 'fearmongering' you speak of. 

With the blackface stuff... If an old photo of Pierre came out tomorrow where he doned the blackface but owned it and apologized for it, I would not be here criticizing him for it. 

Finally..  I do understand where you can see folks like me as simply pro trudeau, anti pierre.   I'm not. I don't like Trudeau. The list of his fuck ups do in deed outweigh Pierre's by just about any metric.   But looking at an impending election as just another chapter in the ongoing culture war between left and right...  Pierre ought to start figuring out that like it or not, as a country we are more woke than not, we are more left than not.  That's not opinion, and you're not just seeing it here because this is a PJ forum..... that's our voting history of the last ten years. As mentioned above, beyond his just dooshy persona... he's doing things and saying things that are making the left not like him.  That's a terrible idea, and it seems completely unnecessary. People won't vote to support Trudeau. They'll vote to stop Pierre because of this stuff. Trudeau knows that. 

The Alex Jones endorsement is filed right alongside Obama’s for Trudeau, both inappropriate foreign interference. If Poilievre feels addressing this wacko’s endorsement is beneath him, I don’t blame him. Must Trudeau equally address every endorsement? Or maybe to use a party that’s more comparable in terms of the spectrum, every endorsement Jagmeet receives?

I hope Diagolon’s endorsement doesn’t stem from the trailer Poilievre stepped into because that specific trailer apparently has a longer story than has generally been reported, and while we’re at it, shall we analyze every single person’s political affiliations that’s shaken Trudeau’s hand? When accusations are based so flimsily, much more proof is required.

 I’m glad you mentioned the pendulum because it does seem to swing in ten year increments so as a (supposed) Conservative, it means I should be due, lol.

 If blackface pictures did surface of Poilievre I like to think that I’d be all over him until he did the minimum honourable act of resigning as leader (even better to resign as MP in my opinion). For me to accept his keeping his seat would require some sort of sincere bridgebuilding with the offended community (but I’m not his constituent). However I strongly suspect I’ll never have to put that conviction to the test because such pictures likely don’t exist, and don’t until they do. Anyone that voted Liberal in 2019 voted for a party led by the man in the pictures I posted, and as a result my Prime Minister is the only world leader (that I’m admittedly aware of) that has blackface pictures that can be easily found. And then he and his party were reelected when pitted against an RCAF officer turned lawyer turned politician. Does. Not. Compute.

PJ_Soul

An endorsement from Alex Jones is vastly different than one from most other people, just like one from, say, the leader of the KKK would be.

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).

How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?

It seems a reminder is needed.

Couple more things lol ...

People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it. 

I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means..  but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support.   I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. 

Regarding all the fear around PP and gay rights, I simply point to his deputy leader, Melissa Lantsman, an open lesbian. Besides the fact that several Conservative leaders in succession have all asserted that those issues are closed (yet for some reason they are asked about it daily on the campaign trail).

Please clearly show a direct link between the federal Conservatives and these “far right groups”. There’s been a lot of (I would call successful) fearmongering by the Trudeauites in this regard, I believe.

As regards blackface, yes, he apologized, but has done any penance or atonement? By his own admission he worked to keep it hidden all those years, which speaks directly to his integrity, and the India trip showed he hadn’t learned yet that it is wrong. Some can move past this (or even justify it as has been done here), but some of us haven’t. Those pictures would have ended any right-leaning politician’s career, but somehow Justin’s is accepted (what about all the people who were chastised for insensitive costumes before Justin’s adult blackface? Are they being apologized to?). Didn’t drama Justin learn that Sir Laurence Olivier took heat for performing Othello in blackface? In the 60s?

Regarding his characterization of being cozy with the far right... to your point, there is no 'direct link' which is why I say he's cozy with them, but not with them.  He maintains an arms length.  It's not all that indifferent than the populist downstairs, Trump. 

Like Biden did during the debates in 2020, he put him right on the stand nationally asking him to downright condemn the Proud Boys... which he of course could not do. Trudeau is using the same tactic as Biden.  He sees the subtle dog whistling and the crowd he keeps... and then he baits him.  Diagolon, Alex Jones, Freedom Convoy, Jordan Peterson... Trudeau is calling Pierre out and saying 'Hey you... I see you're getting support from Diagolon and Alex Jones, etc. and asking him to speak on it.' Pierre doesn't.  Which is smart for a couple reasons... but again also gives Trudeau ammo. The silence is deafening. 

And it's not make belief fear mongering... he's on record saying he wishes Canada was more anglo-saxon, he has done interviews with Peterson, he has met and shook hands with people who support or are a part of Diagolon and of course his support of the Freedom Convoy. 

To be clear... it ain't like Trudeau is squeaky clean either. Which is why he should be easy to beat in an election... but the more Pierre panders to the right and keeps them at arms length (in an effort not to lose too many of them to the ridiculous PPC) he risks not gaining the left-centre vote that he needs.   

Consider this if you want Trudeau gone so bad.  If Alex Jones is publicly supporting Pierre from the States, that's not good. And it crushes the notions that people like me are just buying into the 'fearmongering' you speak of. 

With the blackface stuff... If an old photo of Pierre came out tomorrow where he doned the blackface but owned it and apologized for it, I would not be here criticizing him for it. 

Finally..  I do understand where you can see folks like me as simply pro trudeau, anti pierre.   I'm not. I don't like Trudeau. The list of his fuck ups do in deed outweigh Pierre's by just about any metric.   But looking at an impending election as just another chapter in the ongoing culture war between left and right...  Pierre ought to start figuring out that like it or not, as a country we are more woke than not, we are more left than not.  That's not opinion, and you're not just seeing it here because this is a PJ forum..... that's our voting history of the last ten years. As mentioned above, beyond his just dooshy persona... he's doing things and saying things that are making the left not like him.  That's a terrible idea, and it seems completely unnecessary. People won't vote to support Trudeau. They'll vote to stop Pierre because of this stuff. Trudeau knows that. 

The Alex Jones endorsement is filed right alongside Obama’s for Trudeau, both inappropriate foreign interference. If Poilievre feels addressing this wacko’s endorsement is beneath him, I don’t blame him. Must Trudeau equally address every endorsement? Or maybe to use a party that’s more comparable in terms of the spectrum, every endorsement Jagmeet receives?

I hope Diagolon’s endorsement doesn’t stem from the trailer Poilievre stepped into because that specific trailer apparently has a longer story than has generally been reported, and while we’re at it, shall we analyze every single person’s political affiliations that’s shaken Trudeau’s hand? When accusations are based so flimsily, much more proof is required.

 I’m glad you mentioned the pendulum because it does seem to swing in ten year increments so as a (supposed) Conservative, it means I should be due, lol.

 If blackface pictures did surface of Poilievre I like to think that I’d be all over him until he did the minimum honourable act of resigning as leader (even better to resign as MP in my opinion). For me to accept his keeping his seat would require some sort of sincere bridgebuilding with the offended community (but I’m not his constituent). However I strongly suspect I’ll never have to put that conviction to the test because such pictures likely don’t exist, and don’t until they do. Anyone that voted Liberal in 2019 voted for a party led by the man in the pictures I posted, and as a result my Prime Minister is the only world leader (that I’m admittedly aware of) that has blackface pictures that can be easily found. And then he and his party were reelected when pitted against an RCAF officer turned lawyer turned politician. Does. Not. Compute.

See... your logic evades me when you compare Alex Jones to Barack Obama.  Like.. completely and utterly evades me. 

Endorsements are akin to references.

Barack Obama = former CEO of a reputable company. 
Alex Jones = crack head down the road who doesn't shower and has no teeth.  

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).

How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?

It seems a reminder is needed.

Couple more things lol ...

People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it. 

I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means..  but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support.   I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. 

Regarding all the fear around PP and gay rights, I simply point to his deputy leader, Melissa Lantsman, an open lesbian. Besides the fact that several Conservative leaders in succession have all asserted that those issues are closed (yet for some reason they are asked about it daily on the campaign trail).

Please clearly show a direct link between the federal Conservatives and these “far right groups”. There’s been a lot of (I would call successful) fearmongering by the Trudeauites in this regard, I believe.

As regards blackface, yes, he apologized, but has done any penance or atonement? By his own admission he worked to keep it hidden all those years, which speaks directly to his integrity, and the India trip showed he hadn’t learned yet that it is wrong. Some can move past this (or even justify it as has been done here), but some of us haven’t. Those pictures would have ended any right-leaning politician’s career, but somehow Justin’s is accepted (what about all the people who were chastised for insensitive costumes before Justin’s adult blackface? Are they being apologized to?). Didn’t drama Justin learn that Sir Laurence Olivier took heat for performing Othello in blackface? In the 60s?

Regarding his characterization of being cozy with the far right... to your point, there is no 'direct link' which is why I say he's cozy with them, but not with them.  He maintains an arms length.  It's not all that indifferent than the populist downstairs, Trump. 

Like Biden did during the debates in 2020, he put him right on the stand nationally asking him to downright condemn the Proud Boys... which he of course could not do. Trudeau is using the same tactic as Biden.  He sees the subtle dog whistling and the crowd he keeps... and then he baits him.  Diagolon, Alex Jones, Freedom Convoy, Jordan Peterson... Trudeau is calling Pierre out and saying 'Hey you... I see you're getting support from Diagolon and Alex Jones, etc. and asking him to speak on it.' Pierre doesn't.  Which is smart for a couple reasons... but again also gives Trudeau ammo. The silence is deafening. 

And it's not make belief fear mongering... he's on record saying he wishes Canada was more anglo-saxon, he has done interviews with Peterson, he has met and shook hands with people who support or are a part of Diagolon and of course his support of the Freedom Convoy. 

To be clear... it ain't like Trudeau is squeaky clean either. Which is why he should be easy to beat in an election... but the more Pierre panders to the right and keeps them at arms length (in an effort not to lose too many of them to the ridiculous PPC) he risks not gaining the left-centre vote that he needs.   

Consider this if you want Trudeau gone so bad.  If Alex Jones is publicly supporting Pierre from the States, that's not good. And it crushes the notions that people like me are just buying into the 'fearmongering' you speak of. 

With the blackface stuff... If an old photo of Pierre came out tomorrow where he doned the blackface but owned it and apologized for it, I would not be here criticizing him for it. 

Finally..  I do understand where you can see folks like me as simply pro trudeau, anti pierre.   I'm not. I don't like Trudeau. The list of his fuck ups do in deed outweigh Pierre's by just about any metric.   But looking at an impending election as just another chapter in the ongoing culture war between left and right...  Pierre ought to start figuring out that like it or not, as a country we are more woke than not, we are more left than not.  That's not opinion, and you're not just seeing it here because this is a PJ forum..... that's our voting history of the last ten years. As mentioned above, beyond his just dooshy persona... he's doing things and saying things that are making the left not like him.  That's a terrible idea, and it seems completely unnecessary. People won't vote to support Trudeau. They'll vote to stop Pierre because of this stuff. Trudeau knows that. 

The Alex Jones endorsement is filed right alongside Obama’s for Trudeau, both inappropriate foreign interference. If Poilievre feels addressing this wacko’s endorsement is beneath him, I don’t blame him. Must Trudeau equally address every endorsement? Or maybe to use a party that’s more comparable in terms of the spectrum, every endorsement Jagmeet receives?

I hope Diagolon’s endorsement doesn’t stem from the trailer Poilievre stepped into because that specific trailer apparently has a longer story than has generally been reported, and while we’re at it, shall we analyze every single person’s political affiliations that’s shaken Trudeau’s hand? When accusations are based so flimsily, much more proof is required.

 I’m glad you mentioned the pendulum because it does seem to swing in ten year increments so as a (supposed) Conservative, it means I should be due, lol.

 If blackface pictures did surface of Poilievre I like to think that I’d be all over him until he did the minimum honourable act of resigning as leader (even better to resign as MP in my opinion). For me to accept his keeping his seat would require some sort of sincere bridgebuilding with the offended community (but I’m not his constituent). However I strongly suspect I’ll never have to put that conviction to the test because such pictures likely don’t exist, and don’t until they do. Anyone that voted Liberal in 2019 voted for a party led by the man in the pictures I posted, and as a result my Prime Minister is the only world leader (that I’m admittedly aware of) that has blackface pictures that can be easily found. And then he and his party were reelected when pitted against an RCAF officer turned lawyer turned politician. Does. Not. Compute.

See... your logic evades me when you compare Alex Jones to Barack Obama.  Like.. completely and utterly evades me. 

Endorsements are akin to references.

Barack Obama = former CEO of a reputable company. 
Alex Jones = crack head down the road who doesn't shower and has no teeth.  

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).

How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?

It seems a reminder is needed.

Couple more things lol ...

People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it. 

I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means..  but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support.   I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. 

Regarding all the fear around PP and gay rights, I simply point to his deputy leader, Melissa Lantsman, an open lesbian. Besides the fact that several Conservative leaders in succession have all asserted that those issues are closed (yet for some reason they are asked about it daily on the campaign trail).

Please clearly show a direct link between the federal Conservatives and these “far right groups”. There’s been a lot of (I would call successful) fearmongering by the Trudeauites in this regard, I believe.

As regards blackface, yes, he apologized, but has done any penance or atonement? By his own admission he worked to keep it hidden all those years, which speaks directly to his integrity, and the India trip showed he hadn’t learned yet that it is wrong. Some can move past this (or even justify it as has been done here), but some of us haven’t. Those pictures would have ended any right-leaning politician’s career, but somehow Justin’s is accepted (what about all the people who were chastised for insensitive costumes before Justin’s adult blackface? Are they being apologized to?). Didn’t drama Justin learn that Sir Laurence Olivier took heat for performing Othello in blackface? In the 60s?

Regarding his characterization of being cozy with the far right... to your point, there is no 'direct link' which is why I say he's cozy with them, but not with them.  He maintains an arms length.  It's not all that indifferent than the populist downstairs, Trump. 

Like Biden did during the debates in 2020, he put him right on the stand nationally asking him to downright condemn the Proud Boys... which he of course could not do. Trudeau is using the same tactic as Biden.  He sees the subtle dog whistling and the crowd he keeps... and then he baits him.  Diagolon, Alex Jones, Freedom Convoy, Jordan Peterson... Trudeau is calling Pierre out and saying 'Hey you... I see you're getting support from Diagolon and Alex Jones, etc. and asking him to speak on it.' Pierre doesn't.  Which is smart for a couple reasons... but again also gives Trudeau ammo. The silence is deafening. 

And it's not make belief fear mongering... he's on record saying he wishes Canada was more anglo-saxon, he has done interviews with Peterson, he has met and shook hands with people who support or are a part of Diagolon and of course his support of the Freedom Convoy. 

To be clear... it ain't like Trudeau is squeaky clean either. Which is why he should be easy to beat in an election... but the more Pierre panders to the right and keeps them at arms length (in an effort not to lose too many of them to the ridiculous PPC) he risks not gaining the left-centre vote that he needs.   

Consider this if you want Trudeau gone so bad.  If Alex Jones is publicly supporting Pierre from the States, that's not good. And it crushes the notions that people like me are just buying into the 'fearmongering' you speak of. 

With the blackface stuff... If an old photo of Pierre came out tomorrow where he doned the blackface but owned it and apologized for it, I would not be here criticizing him for it. 

Finally..  I do understand where you can see folks like me as simply pro trudeau, anti pierre.   I'm not. I don't like Trudeau. The list of his fuck ups do in deed outweigh Pierre's by just about any metric.   But looking at an impending election as just another chapter in the ongoing culture war between left and right...  Pierre ought to start figuring out that like it or not, as a country we are more woke than not, we are more left than not.  That's not opinion, and you're not just seeing it here because this is a PJ forum..... that's our voting history of the last ten years. As mentioned above, beyond his just dooshy persona... he's doing things and saying things that are making the left not like him.  That's a terrible idea, and it seems completely unnecessary. People won't vote to support Trudeau. They'll vote to stop Pierre because of this stuff. Trudeau knows that. 

The Alex Jones endorsement is filed right alongside Obama’s for Trudeau, both inappropriate foreign interference. If Poilievre feels addressing this wacko’s endorsement is beneath him, I don’t blame him. Must Trudeau equally address every endorsement? Or maybe to use a party that’s more comparable in terms of the spectrum, every endorsement Jagmeet receives?

I hope Diagolon’s endorsement doesn’t stem from the trailer Poilievre stepped into because that specific trailer apparently has a longer story than has generally been reported, and while we’re at it, shall we analyze every single person’s political affiliations that’s shaken Trudeau’s hand? When accusations are based so flimsily, much more proof is required.

 I’m glad you mentioned the pendulum because it does seem to swing in ten year increments so as a (supposed) Conservative, it means I should be due, lol.

 If blackface pictures did surface of Poilievre I like to think that I’d be all over him until he did the minimum honourable act of resigning as leader (even better to resign as MP in my opinion). For me to accept his keeping his seat would require some sort of sincere bridgebuilding with the offended community (but I’m not his constituent). However I strongly suspect I’ll never have to put that conviction to the test because such pictures likely don’t exist, and don’t until they do. Anyone that voted Liberal in 2019 voted for a party led by the man in the pictures I posted, and as a result my Prime Minister is the only world leader (that I’m admittedly aware of) that has blackface pictures that can be easily found. And then he and his party were reelected when pitted against an RCAF officer turned lawyer turned politician. Does. Not. Compute.

See... your logic evades me when you compare Alex Jones to Barack Obama.  Like.. completely and utterly evades me. 

Endorsements are akin to references.

Barack Obama = former CEO of a reputable company. 
Alex Jones = crack head down the road who doesn't shower and has no teeth.  

I understand the differences between the two, my point was moreso that they both qualify as foreign interference and should both be equally dismissed. Others don’t see it that way and that’s fair enough.

 I also get incredibly uncomfortable when politicians at different levels endorse candidates in elections for different levels of government, it sets a bad tone in the case that the other candidate wins.

Parksy

A political endorsement is different than a financial endorsement to me... that said, you do touch upon an interesting subject. 

Both are considered valuable. Trump for example uses endorsements like candy. He knows his endorsement is worth something, and like the greasy businessman he is, he knows you don't give anything of value away for free. 

PJ_Soul

An endorsement actually does not qualify as foreign political interference fwiw. Foreign political interference is a very real thing, and that ain't it.

DarthMaeglin

PJ_Soul said:

An endorsement actually does not qualify as foreign political interference fwiw. Foreign political interference is a very real thing, and that ain't it.

Fair enough, I just consider it one type of foreign interference, and I absolutely agree that the more insidious forms of interference need to be strongly addressed by the government (I personally don’t see enough teeth in what was put forward the other day).

Pretty much I think that anyone whose vote is swayed by what any foreigner says should maybe not be allowed to vote on the basis of stupidity. Except for denying anyone the vote runs counter to my core beliefs, so let them vote, lol.

DarthMaeglin

Sad news in the world of Canadian political commentary,  Rex Murphy is dead at 77.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rex-murphy-obituary-1.7199788

Edit: Mark Critch puts it perfectly:

“You might not agree with what Rex had to say, but oh, boy, could he ever say it," said comedian and fellow Newfoundlander Mark Critch, who performed an impression of Murphy on This Hour Has 22 Minutes.

DarthMaeglin

Rex Murphy’s last column, a good one in my opinion (and not just because it’s critical of Trudeau).

https://torontosun.com/opinion/rex-murphy-trudeau-faced-an-essential-moral-test-after-oct-7-he-failed-it/wcm/6a53e507-3296-4b27-92eb-5155e5b67ed6

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

Rex Murphy’s last column, a good one in my opinion (and not just because it’s critical of Trudeau).

https://torontosun.com/opinion/rex-murphy-trudeau-faced-an-essential-moral-test-after-oct-7-he-failed-it/wcm/6a53e507-3296-4b27-92eb-5155e5b67ed6

You have your opinion... good on ya.

Mine is that this column by 'journalist' Rex Murphy is like chum for the Fox News loving propaganda seeking right wing whiners. Full of bias, assumptions, and salacious innuendo. 

Criticizing the PM of Canada for not supporting Israel while they commit genocide is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a 'journalist' write. It's mind boggling that you think this is a good criticism of Trudeau. 

What Rex (and perhaps yourself) doesn't understand here is that during conflict... countries, politicians, and people (campus heroes) do not need to choose a side and stick with it. 

What Hamas did is putrid and horrific. 

What Israel is now doing in response is putrid and horrific. 

In reading that BS article, Rex seems to want his readers to focus primarily on two things:  Hamas killed and raped people without mercy during and after October 7th.  And Justin Trudeau has failed for not fully supporting Israel. 

Darth... any chance you want to take a stab at a fairly glaring omission from this article?  Floor is yours, take a guess at what Rex is unsurprisingly omitting from his article. For your sake, I hope you know what that omission is. 

Then ask yourself.... if you know and understand that extremely factual and real thing that Rex is omitting from his article... ask yourself....  'is there ANY chance, that could be a reason why Trudeau isn't putting his full support behind Israel? And perhaps.... what is causing protests across our country?'   Let's see if you can admit and cite what Rex failed to do here. Put it in words here. 

While you're at it.. let me help you and Rex out a bit.  He asked "Where was the denunciation of Hamas from Trudeau?"  Answer:  Everywhere. From interviews to the House of Commons to official statements. That's where it was. Unfortunately, you wouldn't know that if you read Rex Murphy. 

Honestly... do you honestly read this stuff and believe it? If you can't smell the burning stench of this man's bogus and absolutely harmful propaganda... I can't help you. You are being hoodwinked. Bullshitted. Manipulated. There is zero denying that after reading this article that you posted and are celebrating here. I hope for you and those like you that you someday learn that drinking information from the same dirty fountain.. will poison your brain. 

Trudeau is not good for Canada.  And this article by Rex Murphy... is not good for Canada. See.. two things can be true at the same time. 

This guy was like the Jack Edwards of journalism.  If this was his last column.. what a shitty legacy he left. 

HughFreakingDillon

Murphy was not a journalist. He was canada's right wing propaganda machine. 

Parksy

To Darth.. forgiveness for seeming harsh.. but I gotta say.. these articles are just no good. Like at all. I think stuff like this from both sides left and right are tearing us apart.  The difference being that right leaning media goes way way further into plain old propaganda then left media does. Which is scary because people like you either don't recognize this or don't care. 

And the folks who own The Sun and the politicians they fund.. are the ones who win in the end.