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Canadian Politics Redux

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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    edited September 2023
    Parksy said:
    Overall thoughts on the Nazi that was saluted in the House of Commons? 

    Without a doubt, shameful and embarrassing..... Opposition is blaming Trudeau (because, of course)  Liberals are blaming the Speaker. 
    Baffled as to how it happened and unfortunately I’m among those calling for Rota’s resignation over this lapse in judgment. I say unfortunately because as much as I mock Question Period, Rota as Speaker has always struck me as reasonable and fair.

     I’m not putting any responsibility for this directly on Trudeau, though it’s unclear if someone in his office should have caught this. At some point Rota would have (presumably) provided the man’s name to the security apparatus which is ultimately where the buck should stop. But Rota should have known better himself to start with.

    Having an uncle whose father was in the Austrian military during WWII I recognize that it’s not so cut-and-dried that those who fought against the Allies were all true believer Nazis, even if they swore oaths. However, the little bit of information that’s been reported on the current individual doesn’t sound good for him (volunteer regiment, his own quote about enthusiastically signing up, allegations made against the regiment by various organizations).

     I have to admit to a certain amount of pleasure watching ALL the politicians backpedal on this (and anytime something similar happens), it sometimes reaches the level of comical (probably just another instance of choosing to laugh or cry about something).

    Edited to change “probably” to “provided”.
    Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    In fairness to our security apparatus, it was mentioned in some of the reporting yesterday that this man would probably not have been flagged in a security screening but would have been in a “political” screening which isn’t currently part of the process for these events.

    Based on the information in this article I would say the responsibility for this incident falls squarely on Rota and I just don’t see any way he can continue as Speaker.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/yaroslav-hunka-poland-minister-extradite-1.6978266
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,681
    Agreed 
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,860
    Rota resigns
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    In fairness to our security apparatus, it was mentioned in some of the reporting yesterday that this man would probably not have been flagged in a security screening but would have been in a “political” screening which isn’t currently part of the process for these events.

    Based on the information in this article I would say the responsibility for this incident falls squarely on Rota and I just don’t see any way he can continue as Speaker.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/yaroslav-hunka-poland-minister-extradite-1.6978266
    That narrative doesn’t fit so it can’t be correct. Has to be pmjt’s fault. 
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    I’m glad Trudeau (finally) apologized, as I would have expected a similar apology from any Prime Minister. I’m still not putting any direct blame on Justin but it does sound like his office played a role in the blunder, among several organizations.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/yaroslav-hunka-fallout-1.6979628
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    edited September 2023
    I’m well established as being anti-Trudeau but this isn’t the answer, though it’s not yet clear who the primary target was (lots of information being withheld at this point, understandably). The biggest reason to not assassinate Trudeau is so that he isn’t made into some sort of beatified martyr.

     I fully expect this incident to be quickly linked to the political right by many media outlets unfortunately.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/francois-legault-justin-trudeau

    Edit: This story really needs to be fleshed out because it seems this incident occurred over a hundred kilometres away from the targets of the man’s threats.
    Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,860
    the biggest reason to not kill a man is to not make him a martyr? the BIGGEST REASON?
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    the biggest reason to not kill a man is to not make him a martyr? the BIGGEST REASON?
    You really like zeroing in on one specific part of my post while seemingly ignoring much of the substance.

    Fine, we should continue to elevate a man who seems to actively work to divide and conquer the population he is ostensibly meant to REPRESENT (not rule).
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    erebuserebus Posts: 555
    "Fine, we should continue to elevate a man who seems to actively work to divide and conquer the population he is ostensibly meant to REPRESENT (not rule)."

    Lol, I thought this was Poilievre's platform for a moment. 

    And I am well aware that JT is also a Mega turd. I wish there were better alternatives all around 

    Carry on
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    edited September 2023
    I’m glad there’s options for those of us uncomfortable with being part of the mRNA experiment…oh wait…thanks, federal government!

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pfizer-covid-xbb-vaccine-1.6981260

    Edit: There might be…eventually…will there be extra hoops and whistles to access it like last time?

    https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6949904
    Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,681
    the biggest reason to not kill a man is to not make him a martyr? the BIGGEST REASON?
    You really like zeroing in on one specific part of my post while seemingly ignoring much of the substance.

    Fine, we should continue to elevate a man who seems to actively work to divide and conquer the population he is ostensibly meant to REPRESENT (not rule).
    That's a pretty substantial 'specific part' 
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    Parksy said:
    the biggest reason to not kill a man is to not make him a martyr? the BIGGEST REASON?
    You really like zeroing in on one specific part of my post while seemingly ignoring much of the substance.

    Fine, we should continue to elevate a man who seems to actively work to divide and conquer the population he is ostensibly meant to REPRESENT (not rule).
    That's a pretty substantial 'specific part' 
    Fair enough, but I’m being taken far too literally on this.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,860
    the biggest reason to not kill a man is to not make him a martyr? the BIGGEST REASON?
    You really like zeroing in on one specific part of my post while seemingly ignoring much of the substance.

    Fine, we should continue to elevate a man who seems to actively work to divide and conquer the population he is ostensibly meant to REPRESENT (not rule).
    sorry, am I beholden to address every single sentence in your posts? I zeroed in on that one (of the whopping 5, heaven for fend) because I found it utterly shocking. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    the biggest reason to not kill a man is to not make him a martyr? the BIGGEST REASON?
    You really like zeroing in on one specific part of my post while seemingly ignoring much of the substance.

    Fine, we should continue to elevate a man who seems to actively work to divide and conquer the population he is ostensibly meant to REPRESENT (not rule).
    sorry, am I beholden to address every single sentence in your posts? I zeroed in on that one (of the whopping 5, heaven for fend) because I found it utterly shocking. 
    And am I supposed to apologize for not putting “One of the” before the line you took offence to?

    You already told me not to tell you how to post so I’d better shut up now, for fucks’ sakes.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,860
    "one of the biggest reasons" and "the biggest reason" are two very different statements, "for fucks' sakes". 

    no need to apologize, just say what you mean or don't whine when someone challenges you on it. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    I did forget the lesson I was taught here a couple/few weeks ago, that when posting leave zero room for ambiguity. Because I will be misread and misunderstood (I have to admit I do sometimes wonder if that’s being done intentionally).

    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander however.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    This does illustrate the worth that can be placed on a pledge made by the Trudeau Liberals. It is kind of cute that 8 years in they claim to have discovered fiscal responsibility.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/department-national-defence-budget-billion-1.6981974
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,860
    I did forget the lesson I was taught here a couple/few weeks ago, that when posting leave zero room for ambiguity. Because I will be misread and misunderstood (I have to admit I do sometimes wonder if that’s being done intentionally).

    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander however.
    honestly I don't think your post-distinction makes it any less gross. the fact that you even put "the biggest reason/one of the biggest reasons I don't want him to be assassinated is because of martyrdom" is just that: disgusting. 

    now, it's one thing to make the observation that an unfortunate consequence of that happening would be the martyrdom (as has been mentioned about Trump in the past), but one of the biggest reasons you don't want it to happen? how about an innocent man not being murdered? how about a family not watching their father have their head blown off? an extra judicial killing of a world power?

    there's no intention of being misread or any type of gotcha nonsense. I'm just plain old disgusted. 

    and regarding your constant whining that I only pick portions of your posts to address: this is literally what we do in real life conversation and online conversation. I can address whatever portions of your post I want. As can you. If it was a context issue where I'm omitting key parts of a sentence, I could understand that, but that's not what you're complaining about. You complain I respond to some points but not all. 

    I don't bitch when you don't respond to every single sentence in a post. that's absurd. I respond to what I feel is relevant, and, admittedly, what I feel I'm educated about enough to respond to; nothing more. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    I did forget the lesson I was taught here a couple/few weeks ago, that when posting leave zero room for ambiguity. Because I will be misread and misunderstood (I have to admit I do sometimes wonder if that’s being done intentionally).

    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander however.
    honestly I don't think your post-distinction makes it any less gross. the fact that you even put "the biggest reason/one of the biggest reasons I don't want him to be assassinated is because of martyrdom" is just that: disgusting. 

    now, it's one thing to make the observation that an unfortunate consequence of that happening would be the martyrdom (as has been mentioned about Trump in the past), but one of the biggest reasons you don't want it to happen? how about an innocent man not being murdered? how about a family not watching their father have their head blown off? an extra judicial killing of a world power?

    there's no intention of being misread or any type of gotcha nonsense. I'm just plain old disgusted. 

    and regarding your constant whining that I only pick portions of your posts to address: this is literally what we do in real life conversation and online conversation. I can address whatever portions of your post I want. As can you. If it was a context issue where I'm omitting key parts of a sentence, I could understand that, but that's not what you're complaining about. You complain I respond to some points but not all. 

    I don't bitch when you don't respond to every single sentence in a post. that's absurd. I respond to what I feel is relevant, and, admittedly, what I feel I'm educated about enough to respond to; nothing more. 
    To the second paragraph and the questions you ask, the fact you feel you have to ask/suggest them (as well as your initial reaction) tells me that you must have missed some of my posts along the way, as well as flat out ignoring the preamble before my offensive statement. I’m pretty well established as being anti-murder.

     I am often guilty of expecting others to conform to my own standards and I do try to work against that impulse (believe it or not). I also need to extend that to expecting a fulsome response from everyone who reacts to my posts.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    I'm struggling with the right words but I think brevity will be better (in part so I stop digging a deeper hole).

    I want to apologize to the thread (and even the larger board) if for nothing else than breaking the central covenant of this place and being an asshole in ways,  not least of which is breaking the "If you hate something..." rule.




    As an aside I just want to explain my editing of posts and the very limited amount that I do. Very early in my own online days (the forum for the show 24) I saw people substantially altering posts after the fact which if nothing else sometimes caused some confusion with subsequent replies.  Believing that one should stand behind their words (even anonymously online) I adopted the habit of only making cosmetic edits to my own posts and highlighting them, with only one exception that I can recall. I mention this in part to explain why I allow statements that might offend to remain even if I subsequently clarify or even retract them. 
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,681
    So Trudeau took a holiday in Montana and it costs $230K.  I don't know the full extent of the story, but apparently the Liberals were trying to mask the total costs of this trip for obvious reasons. 

    Now... I get the security aspect to this and how that can raise the cost of the trip. I get that.  But so should Trudeau. 

    By taking this trip, knowing the costs, to me is completely tone deaf on his part.   

    Politically...  it's a dumb move for Trudeau and the Liberals. 
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    Parksy said:
    So Trudeau took a holiday in Montana and it costs $230K.  I don't know the full extent of the story, but apparently the Liberals were trying to mask the total costs of this trip for obvious reasons. 

    Now... I get the security aspect to this and how that can raise the cost of the trip. I get that.  But so should Trudeau. 

    By taking this trip, knowing the costs, to me is completely tone deaf on his part.   

    Politically...  it's a dumb move for Trudeau and the Liberals. 
    It wasn’t even a holiday but a four-day long weekend. Cost as much or more than 2 weeks with his close, personal friend the Aga Khan.

     I did read somewhere that Trudeau claimed the Secret Service protection he was given as a gift, even though (properly) it’s something the SS does for all visiting world leaders.

    Lest we forget, it was a Liberal that claimed they were entitled to their entitlements.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    I still think the appropriate response would have been to let the press run the story and then simply say “The government is working with the Indian government to resolve this matter.”, as opposed to the nuclear option Trudeau ran with.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-india-making-life-difficult-1.7002961
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    Poilievre’s apple interview is pure gold. I laughed out loud at his take down of the small town journalist. True journalists are fair and objective. It seems they all want to be editorialists these days. 

    Look at CNN or MSNBC or Fox News. None of these are “news” channels. They are Editorial channels. What was once two pages in the newspaper is now several 24 hour entertainment channels. Utter nonsense. 

    When I was young, I never understood the editorials. I would read it and wonder why this person felt they needed to tell me how to think. Why did they not understand that I merely needed the facts and I could draw my own conclusions. Basically, journalism today is the halftime show on NFL Sunday. 
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,424
    edited October 2023
    Here’s the reporter’s version of the encounter, it’s almost comical compared to what is seen in the video.

    https://www.castanet.net/news/Oliver-Osoyoos/451775/Pierre-Poilievre-was-in-town-Wednesday-capping-the-visit-off-with-a-rally-in-Oliver

    Edit: Here’s the video in question as well, it breaks in mid-question and cuts off before the interview ends but is otherwise unedited.

    https://youtu.be/rnEj7WLsWbk?si=I-O96ntKbi0G7C6t
    Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    edited October 2023
    All of that reaffirms what I posted above. The write up is an even more editorialized version of the reporter’s thoughts. And the questions… accusing him of populism, Trump-like politics, etc. 
    It is so plainly obvious he doesn’t like PP, he can’t hide it in the interview or the article. 

    I say all of this as a person who studied journalism in school and dabbled in it in my 20s.  I prided myself on being fair and objective in my reporting. The number one rule was to report the story, don’t become the story: 

    But in today’s world, if you aren’t a talking head you are nothing so these small town hacks try to make a name for themselves. I live in the same area this happened which makes it funnier.

    Before the anti-conservative mafia comes after me, I’m not here to defend Poilievre. I’m not a staunch conservative. I’ve voted for four different parties federally in my life. I simply thought his response to the awfully phrased and accusatory questions were hilariously bad.

    Reporter: “Blah blah blah…populism”
    PP: “what does that mean?”
    Reporter: “appealing to people’s more emotional levels I would guess”

    populism is a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups. The guy asked a question with a word he didn’t know the meaning of. 

    Then the questions are just plain horrible. Accusing him of tapping “strong ideological language” like “right wing, left wing, this and that” and as he is stumbling here he tries to bail out of that, only to make it worse that “some people would say you are taking a page out of the Donald Trump, uh” and then can’t answer when PP asks who is saying that. 

    Reporter : “Don’t know”
    PP: “You must know someone you asked the question”

    When he finally asked a straight forward question, PP have a thoughtful straightforward answer regarding some of his plans (it’s an interview, very high level). The discussion about drug addicts was incorrectly reported in the written article. 

    PP took him to the cleaners. Just one man’ opinion. Most of all it was all pretty hilarious. 
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,681
    Help me with something if you folks can: 

    In this interview where Pierre was mowing down on an apple... can anyone tell me who the 'journalist' represented?  

    I ask for a couple reasons, and yes, what I'm getting at is generally against Pierre because I generally think he's a doosh canoe. 

    Now... let's say someone can identify this 'reporter' ....  I'm going to take a wild shot in the dark and suggest that this 'reporter' does not come from a 'main steam media' news outlet.  

    IF... and that's an IF because I honestly don't know.  As I type this, the fellow may have been from Global News' Kelowna station. Who knows.   But if this guy was a Joe Blow 'reporter' from some obscure left wing media outlet.... or perhaps just some guy with a blog... and Pierre and his camp are plastering him on social media...   well... that's sad and hypocritical.  

    You cannot be vehemently against main steam media news who have real journalists and also use some left wing nobody to put on social media. 

    That said, I shall wait to see who this fellow was who was interviewing our Leader of the Opposition... learn who he works for, was his credentials are etc.  
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,681
    Didn't take me long... yes... the fellow is a joke of an editorial writer for an obscure newspaper.  Don Urquhart of the Times Chronicle of South Okanagan valley. 

    I hope that folks who look upon Pierre as someone 'awesome' for this completely understand this... The guy is a joke. 

    I quite honestly compare this to Auston Matthews scoring a goal on a U7 goalie. 

    The fact that the Conservatives and Pierre and his camp are eating this up and looking at this as any sort of 'win' or 'victory' or 'look at us, we just owned the libs' ... is so unbelievably sad and pathetic. No different than the Leafs posting a video of Mattews sniping on a 7 year old and then posting it online as if it's worth bragging about. 

    This is the guy Pierre Polievre took to the cleaners with his political savvy: 

    [A Vancouver native, Don spent half his life living, working and eating his way around Southeast Asia. A graduate of Simon Fraser University, Don began his career writing for consumer magazines in Singapore before joining a large daily newspaper and later a daily business paper.

    Moving to the South Okanagan in 2021 Don is still adjusting to the unique (read dry) environment with the fabulous wine and craft beer of the region aiding that adjustment. Whenever possible, backcountry hiking is top of the agenda.

    He is the editor of the Times Chronicle newspaper in Oliver and Osoyoos.]
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,681
    Poilievre’s apple interview is pure gold. I laughed out loud at his take down of the small town journalist. True journalists are fair and objective. It seems they all want to be editorialists these days. 

    Look at CNN or MSNBC or Fox News. None of these are “news” channels. They are Editorial channels. What was once two pages in the newspaper is now several 24 hour entertainment channels. Utter nonsense. 

    When I was young, I never understood the editorials. I would read it and wonder why this person felt they needed to tell me how to think. Why did they not understand that I merely needed the facts and I could draw my own conclusions. Basically, journalism today is the halftime show on NFL Sunday. 
    In some ways, I think he actually makes the joke of a journalist's point for him. 

    Look at this clown.... Leader of the Opposition... going 'viral' for all the wrong reasons. And the really blatant and sad part... it's not other "news organizations," pundits, or right wing media people eating this up... HE IS.  Our Leader or the Opposition and the Conservative Party of Canada is posting this like some sort of accomplishment.  And people ask me why I don't want to vote for this moron. What a joke. And I hate to say this... anyone out there who watches this as is like "HAHA... look at him TAKE DOWN this biased reporter" really needs to take a step back and look at what they get their jollies off of. 


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