they WERE fringe. a very small minority is the exact definition of "fringe". that's what they were. just because they were loud as fuck doesn't make the group bigger.
Trudeau is not an outlier here. We couldn't even fly to the US without a vaccine. that was an AMERICAN requirement. that goes for dozens of democratic countries around the world.
his opinion was that they held unacceptable views. how does that prove he lied about anything? that's a leap
The vaccine mandate extended to domestic flights as well as international, if I recall correctly.
yes, it was. my point was that his mandates were not out of line with most of the rest of the planet. but conservatives are making it out like they were.
The fact we’re both using the word “mandate” shows that choice was on many ways an illusion.
We don’t have a Charter right to enter the U.S., but we do have one for free movement within Canada. Because of the federal mandates that right was severely curtailed for many (sure, they could drive if they needed, but compare a six hour flight from Toronto to Vancouver as opposed to a three day drive.
If Trudeau wants to retroactively claim he was incentivizing people to get vaccinated, where was my carrot in the form of a payment or tax credit for getting the first two shots (which required me to set aside my own discomfort with the rushed “science” and what turned out to be false claims in its efficacy)?
From my point of view since covid never reached the point (yet) of an existential threat to humanity, all the hysteria was overblown. The measures that actually worked to stop spread were the lockdowns, isolation and quarantine, methods that I understand were effective back in the Middle Ages during the bubonic plague.
And Hugh you implied that my own characterization of Trudeau’s new take as revisionist history as over the top, which I allow was a bit hyperbolic but I still say a lot of hyperbole gets directed at the political right that goes unchallenged by most. I do get that this forum skews to the left but we should all (myself included) be striving to see things as they are, not forcing them into our own particular worldviews.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
they WERE fringe. a very small minority is the exact definition of "fringe". that's what they were. just because they were loud as fuck doesn't make the group bigger.
Trudeau is not an outlier here. We couldn't even fly to the US without a vaccine. that was an AMERICAN requirement. that goes for dozens of democratic countries around the world.
his opinion was that they held unacceptable views. how does that prove he lied about anything? that's a leap
The vaccine mandate extended to domestic flights as well as international, if I recall correctly.
yes, it was. my point was that his mandates were not out of line with most of the rest of the planet. but conservatives are making it out like they were.
The fact we’re both using the word “mandate” shows that choice was on many ways an illusion.
We don’t have a Charter right to enter the U.S., but we do have one for free movement within Canada. Because of the federal mandates that right was severely curtailed for many (sure, they could drive if they needed, but compare a six hour flight from Toronto to Vancouver as opposed to a three day drive.
If Trudeau wants to retroactively claim he was incentivizing people to get vaccinated, where was my carrot in the form of a payment or tax credit for getting the first two shots (which required me to set aside my own discomfort with the rushed “science” and what turned out to be false claims in its efficacy)?
From my point of view since covid never reached the point (yet) of an existential threat to humanity, all the hysteria was overblown. The measures that actually worked to stop spread were the lockdowns, isolation and quarantine, methods that I understand were effective back in the Middle Ages during the bubonic plague.
And Hugh you implied that my own characterization of Trudeau’s new take as revisionist history as over the top, which I allow was a bit hyperbolic but I still say a lot of hyperbole gets directed at the political right that goes unchallenged by most. I do get that this forum skews to the left but we should all (myself included) be striving to see things as they are, not forcing them into our own particular worldviews.
as you said, movement was not federally restricted; that was provincial.
I suppose one person's incentive is another person's entitlement? I don't know. If you didn't want to get the jab, then you shouldn't have gotten it. I'd be more concerned you are so easily purchased into getting something you deem "rushed science". And they weren't false claims. It was what was believed would be achieved outside in the real world at the time. People call that lying; I call that the scientific method.
The hysteria was not overblown in the context of the first wave and subsequent few variants. if it was back then like it is now, I'd agree with you. But people were dying and hospitals were overrun for months. Ask any health care worker: this was underblown by the public and health authorities. Doctors and nurses were calling for more strict lockdowns and mandates!
I didn't say your comment was over the top of hyperbolic. I said it was incorrect. nothing more. But, if I'm understanding your last paragraph, if I find something you say to be hyperbole, I'm supposed to ignore it because other lefties are hyperbolic too?
It appears to me you seem to believe that just because I don't get outraged over everything Trudeau has done, that I've been somehow brainwashed or I'm at the very least hyper partisan, or not being fair. As I've said, he's made some mistakes. I'm not a big fan. The whole "unacceptable views" comment; I didn't think that was very ministerial. He should have kept that to himself. he could have left it as a "small minority" or even "fringe" didn't bother me.
I've acknowledged my own biases that for sure play a part in the level of annoyance of any given politician. anyone who claims otherwise is a robot. I try to be as objective as they come but even I know 100% objectivity isn't real.
I've said it before: if someone else comes along that is better, I'll vote for them. Right now he is head and shoulders above the competition. So I will continue to vote for him. I wanted to vote for Jagmeet so bad. But he ruined it. And Pierre is dangerous in his rhetoric. The Greens are a joke at this point.
they WERE fringe. a very small minority is the exact definition of "fringe". that's what they were. just because they were loud as fuck doesn't make the group bigger.
Trudeau is not an outlier here. We couldn't even fly to the US without a vaccine. that was an AMERICAN requirement. that goes for dozens of democratic countries around the world.
his opinion was that they held unacceptable views. how does that prove he lied about anything? that's a leap
The vaccine mandate extended to domestic flights as well as international, if I recall correctly.
yes, it was. my point was that his mandates were not out of line with most of the rest of the planet. but conservatives are making it out like they were.
The fact we’re both using the word “mandate” shows that choice was on many ways an illusion.
We don’t have a Charter right to enter the U.S., but we do have one for free movement within Canada. Because of the federal mandates that right was severely curtailed for many (sure, they could drive if they needed, but compare a six hour flight from Toronto to Vancouver as opposed to a three day drive.
If Trudeau wants to retroactively claim he was incentivizing people to get vaccinated, where was my carrot in the form of a payment or tax credit for getting the first two shots (which required me to set aside my own discomfort with the rushed “science” and what turned out to be false claims in its efficacy)?
From my point of view since covid never reached the point (yet) of an existential threat to humanity, all the hysteria was overblown. The measures that actually worked to stop spread were the lockdowns, isolation and quarantine, methods that I understand were effective back in the Middle Ages during the bubonic plague.
And Hugh you implied that my own characterization of Trudeau’s new take as revisionist history as over the top, which I allow was a bit hyperbolic but I still say a lot of hyperbole gets directed at the political right that goes unchallenged by most. I do get that this forum skews to the left but we should all (myself included) be striving to see things as they are, not forcing them into our own particular worldviews.
as you said, movement was not federally restricted; that was provincial.
I suppose one person's incentive is another person's entitlement? I don't know. If you didn't want to get the jab, then you shouldn't have gotten it. I'd be more concerned you are so easily purchased into getting something you deem "rushed science". And they weren't false claims. It was what was believed would be achieved outside in the real world at the time. People call that lying; I call that the scientific method.
The hysteria was not overblown in the context of the first wave and subsequent few variants. if it was back then like it is now, I'd agree with you. But people were dying and hospitals were overrun for months. Ask any health care worker: this was underblown by the public and health authorities. Doctors and nurses were calling for more strict lockdowns and mandates!
I didn't say your comment was over the top of hyperbolic. I said it was incorrect. nothing more. But, if I'm understanding your last paragraph, if I find something you say to be hyperbole, I'm supposed to ignore it because other lefties are hyperbolic too?
It appears to me you seem to believe that just because I don't get outraged over everything Trudeau has done, that I've been somehow brainwashed or I'm at the very least hyper partisan, or not being fair. As I've said, he's made some mistakes. I'm not a big fan. The whole "unacceptable views" comment; I didn't think that was very ministerial. He should have kept that to himself. he could have left it as a "small minority" or even "fringe" didn't bother me.
I've acknowledged my own biases that for sure play a part in the level of annoyance of any given politician. anyone who claims otherwise is a robot. I try to be as objective as they come but even I know 100% objectivity isn't real.
I've said it before: if someone else comes along that is better, I'll vote for them. Right now he is head and shoulders above the competition. So I will continue to vote for him. I wanted to vote for Jagmeet so bad. But he ruined it. And Pierre is dangerous in his rhetoric. The Greens are a joke at this point.
I suggest you go back upthread where I explained my reasoning behind joining the grand MNRA experiment. And yes, we clearly have different definitions of what an incentive is (going back to the column I posted I wonder which definition our Literature Major PM endorses (pretty obvious to me given his own words)).
Yes, local movements were determined by provincial and municipal governments, but methods of travel were limited by the federal government (hence the discussion around the federal mandates, since it was Trudeau that is now claiming a different course of events than many of us experienced).
So the human race faced extinction with covid? I have never seen any numbers that came close to that threshold.
Trudeau is just as dangerous and divisive in his rhetoric, in my opinion.
I’ll also add that Trudeau has out-Harpered the man himself, with his omnibus bills and legislative trickery (just for a start).
Food for thought:
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Well, what was your standard for extreme action to fight covid other than lots of people got sick and hospitals were overwhelmed? Did that justify using the general populace as guinea pigs in what amounted to an experiment (I believe you’ve already essentially answered yes)?
Were you comfortable when the Canadian government, without any data to justify the move, decided that it was ok to extend the gap between doses? Was that good science that followed the scientific method? Or was it done for political reasons?
I’d still also like to see some objective analysis done to determine which measures were actually effective. When we tried opening up after hitting a critical mass of vaccinations the provincial and municipal governments were generally forced to reenact the lockdowns and gathering limits. That in and of itself should cause one to consider how effective the vaccines were compared to the other measures. I’m not hopeful this government will ever undertake such a study so I suppose it falls to academia.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I need to give the government credit for having learned from their earlier screw up in Afghanistan and doing a far better job with this evacuation (albeit the numbers are much lower here but that doesn't matter ultimately).
Sorry to backtrack to this again, but I realized that you let my use of “existential threat” slide but decided to take umbrage with the word “extinction”? I meant the same thing in both cases.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Granted that this is a column (opinion), the claims made (sourced from the reputable Globe & Mail) are beyond the pale and needs to be stopped.
I’m going to preemptively stop any comparisons some might consider making to Freeland’s encounter or anything else that has occurred domestically. Not even the gravel tosser I posted about earlier. Apples and oranges, definitely.
Had a good chuckle when the local news cut to federal Question Period and Pierre Poilievre was criticizing Trudeau for jetting off to the G7. Pretty sure that’s one of the few trips most of us don’t have a problem with.
Unfortunately they shortly after cut to Trudeau getting a live briefing from the military deployed to fight the wildfires, showing (again) a case of showing that what’s good for the goose isn’t for the gander, with Trudeau having criticized Harper for making a similar trip. If memory serves correctly this isn’t Trudeau’s first visit to the wildfires as well. Maybe this one’s ok because it’s just a stopover on his way to Japan, lol?
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Had a good chuckle when the local news cut to federal Question Period and Pierre Poilievre was criticizing Trudeau for jetting off to the G7. Pretty sure that’s one of the few trips most of us don’t have a problem with.
Unfortunately they shortly after cut to Trudeau getting a live briefing from the military deployed to fight the wildfires, showing (again) a case of showing that what’s good for the goose isn’t for the gander, with Trudeau having criticized Harper for making a similar trip. If memory serves correctly this isn’t Trudeau’s first visit to the wildfires as well. Maybe this one’s ok because it’s just a stopover on his way to Japan, lol?
All politicians rely on citizens having short memories. Just about everything that Pierre P accuses JT of... he will likely inevitably do himself, or a previous conservative PM has done before. It's a vicious cycle.
That said.. most of what Pierre says about JT is largely true. That said... he is bringing conservative politics back into the strategy that I believe ultimately cost them their worst loss in election history... attacking.
You can blame JT for a lot of things... he's awful. But... and I can only speak for myself here but I think history has shown that quite a few Canucks agree with me here. Don't tell me why your opponent is awful... tell me how you're different and what you're going to do for the public that is largely better than what our current government is doing.
Housing is an example. Conservatives (Polievre and Ford) are beating us over the head with 'housing crisis.' Polievre talks about the 'gatekeepers' stopping developments. (I recall a recent politician who was also super against regulation, ahem, Trump) Then you have Ford wanting to remove conservation spaces to re-zone for housing. Thing is... while they are opening the door for more housing, they are also VERY much opening the door and keeping super quiet about how much money developers, contractors, and the real estate sector is going to make here. Allowing developers to build on more land and then charge whatever the going rate is for housing is not a solution to this 'crisis' we're facing.
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Polievre has stated that Trudeau's woke economic policies are causing more homelessness in Canada.
Does anyone here know what those policies are? Also, what makes them woke?
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Had a good chuckle when the local news cut to federal Question Period and Pierre Poilievre was criticizing Trudeau for jetting off to the G7. Pretty sure that’s one of the few trips most of us don’t have a problem with.
Unfortunately they shortly after cut to Trudeau getting a live briefing from the military deployed to fight the wildfires, showing (again) a case of showing that what’s good for the goose isn’t for the gander, with Trudeau having criticized Harper for making a similar trip. If memory serves correctly this isn’t Trudeau’s first visit to the wildfires as well. Maybe this one’s ok because it’s just a stopover on his way to Japan, lol?
All politicians rely on citizens having short memories. Just about everything that Pierre P accuses JT of... he will likely inevitably do himself, or a previous conservative PM has done before. It's a vicious cycle.
That said.. most of what Pierre says about JT is largely true. That said... he is bringing conservative politics back into the strategy that I believe ultimately cost them their worst loss in election history... attacking.
You can blame JT for a lot of things... he's awful. But... and I can only speak for myself here but I think history has shown that quite a few Canucks agree with me here. Don't tell me why your opponent is awful... tell me how you're different and what you're going to do for the public that is largely better than what our current government is doing.
Housing is an example. Conservatives (Polievre and Ford) are beating us over the head with 'housing crisis.' Polievre talks about the 'gatekeepers' stopping developments. (I recall a recent politician who was also super against regulation, ahem, Trump) Then you have Ford wanting to remove conservation spaces to re-zone for housing. Thing is... while they are opening the door for more housing, they are also VERY much opening the door and keeping super quiet about how much money developers, contractors, and the real estate sector is going to make here. Allowing developers to build on more land and then charge whatever the going rate is for housing is not a solution to this 'crisis' we're facing.
I agree with a lot of what you said there, though I don’t think the cycle will break until we demand better as the electorate. Unfortunately that may mean a series of one-term governments as the liars/hypocrites get shown the door after a single term.
As for attacking the incumbent in an election I do believe that criticism should be levelled when warranted but it is more important to present a solid platform of their own. Right now, with no election imminent I don’t see a need for the opposition parties to have full platforms available, since they aren’t the ones in power and their current role is to hold the sitting government to account.
Polievre has stated that Trudeau's woke economic policies are causing more homelessness in Canada.
Does anyone here know what those policies are? Also, what makes them woke?
This one’s a bit of a head scratcher for me, I suspect he may be confusing provincial court rulings with the federal government, because I believe it’s been the courts that have ruled in favour of rights for the homeless, as a start.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Sadly, I don't see much change on the horizon here. Trudeau alone has brought on a lot of criticism... but attacking him seems like low hanging fruit.
I would personally want to know in detail what his opponent would do different.
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Sadly, I don't see much change on the horizon here. Trudeau alone has brought on a lot of criticism... but attacking him seems like low hanging fruit.
I would personally want to know in detail what his opponent would do different.
Agreed about changes not being imminent, I’m convinced it’s part of why politicians of all stripes are working so hard to keep us divided.
Another option for accountability would be enacting recall legislation but I’ve yet to see any politician bring in measures to hold themselves to account.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Sadly, I don't see much change on the horizon here. Trudeau alone has brought on a lot of criticism... but attacking him seems like low hanging fruit.
I would personally want to know in detail what his opponent would do different.
Agreed about changes not being imminent, I’m convinced it’s part of why politicians of all stripes are working so hard to keep us divided.
Another option for accountability would be enacting recall legislation but I’ve yet to see any politician bring in measures to hold themselves to account.
That, good sir... is bang on.
American politics is a prime example. All the things Trump did with regard to circumventing accountability (executive privileges, etc) To the best of my knowledge, not one democrat has attempted to cut back on Biden's executive powers. One would think that if they hated what Trump did so much, their first order of business would be to see that another President wouldn't be able to exploit what he did. Alas... here we are.
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Sadly, I don't see much change on the horizon here. Trudeau alone has brought on a lot of criticism... but attacking him seems like low hanging fruit.
I would personally want to know in detail what his opponent would do different.
Agreed about changes not being imminent, I’m convinced it’s part of why politicians of all stripes are working so hard to keep us divided.
Another option for accountability would be enacting recall legislation but I’ve yet to see any politician bring in measures to hold themselves to account.
That, good sir... is bang on.
American politics is a prime example. All the things Trump did with regard to circumventing accountability (executive privileges, etc) To the best of my knowledge, not one democrat has attempted to cut back on Biden's executive powers. One would think that if they hated what Trump did so much, their first order of business would be to see that another President wouldn't be able to exploit what he did. Alas... here we are.
On a totally different tack, I just recognized what your avatar is and I love it! I’ve been saying for a while now that the world has gotten so absurd that we must actually be living on Planet Monty Python, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
My favourite part is: "God idea my Lord!" "Course it's a good idea!"
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Timing is everything in the end, lol. I just saw an ad paid for by the CPC attacking Trudeau for being out of the country again. If this ad had aired during one of his several Carribean getaways I’d fully stand behind it. However, airing the ad while Trudeau’s actually at the G7 summit makes the ad silly to me (discussions about how worthwhile the G7 actually is being a separate discussion obviously).
There’s enough room for discussion of Trudeau’s travel habits and expenses I believe, but right now (attending an international summit) is one time I throw my support behind (whoever’s) the PM on the basis that they’re representing the entire country (as long as the current PM can stay away from the piano bar, lol).
Edit: I supported the trip to India until the costumes became an issue, so supporting the PM on the international stage isn’t a carte blanche affair.
Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Timing is everything in the end, lol. I just saw an ad paid for by the CPC attacking Trudeau for being out of the country again. If this ad had aired during one of his several Carribean getaways I’d fully stand behind it. However, airing the ad while Trudeau’s actually at the G7 summit makes the ad silly to me (discussions about how worthwhile the G7 actually is being a separate discussion obviously).
There’s enough room for discussion of Trudeau’s travel habits and expenses I believe, but right now (attending an international summit) is one time I throw my support behind (whoever’s) the PM on the basis that they’re representing the entire country (as long as the current PM can stay away from the piano bar, lol).
Edit: I supported the trip to India until the costumes became an issue, so supporting the PM on the international stage isn’t a carte blanche affair.
Conservative strategy boggles my mind. You're bang on.. even in the house of commons they are critical of his travel when he is on diplomatic trips. Freeland had to explain to Poliviere that yes, we exist as a country amongst many other allies. It was pretty amazing.
To me, it's like releasing an ad against his jay-walking. Forget SNC-Lavalin... no, no... jaywalking.
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I agree with the writer with regards to how people vote. 'Vibes'
I don't agree with her assertion that Pierre is 'vibing' better than Trudeau. In general... EVERYTHING aside.. just looking at the way the two people perform... Trudeau is a nice, stately man. Pierre is an annoying D-Bag.
Trudeau should be low hanging fruit to any political contender. Strangely though, Pierre still seems to 'vibe' with populism. To me, that won't 'vibe' well with most Canadians.
The sooner Pierre loses the words "regime" and "woke" from his campaign vernacular, the sooner I would consider voting for him... but that's still far fetched considering his track record and campaign strategy.
The day he stood next to a man who compared COVID to the Holocaust... and straight faced agreed with him.... that left a sour taste in my mouth... as much as I don't like Trudeau.
Whenever I talk to Trudeau haters I always say that I think he would win another election. Baffled, people then lose their minds to me. lol
Those same people can never tell me anything from the last election. But the stats are simple. To de-throne Trudeau, you need to convince approx. 2 million Canadians to stop thinking left, and start thinking right... or least realize that the Trudeau stench is too strong to deal with anymore. Pierre is not doing a good enough job of that... which should be pretty easy.
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Another thing I don't understand about the Conservatives... they seem to be spinning their wheels a bit. Listening to Pierre, you would think that an election was right around the corner. To the best of my knowledge... it's not. 2025 I think. Trudeau can basically rope-a-dope for a couple years before he needs to put much effort into campaigning.
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For a party and a leader who pride themselves on accountability... Pierre did something and continues to do things in the House of Commons that are to me at least completely disrespectful and rude.
To be clear, I don't like Trudeau and would love a better PM. That said... Pierre continues to take immature pot shots at the PM in the House. Non stop chirps about the "high school drama teacher," which in itself is disrespectful and completely unnecessary. Last week however he sunk to a new low by insinuating that the PM was dismissed from his job as a teacher because of sexual misconduct with a minor.. a completely de-bunked story that is amplified by the far right of our country.
Today, he gets asked about that comment not once but twice and cowards away from answering like a sniveling little weasel. And in the same press conference, he issues ultimatums to our government and vows to block any progress unless these conditions are not met.
In a country that absolutely needs it's governments to work together... we have this doosh mocking our leader personally and then issuing ultimatums to our democratically elected government.
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I don't like the 'sound of his own voice' thing either... but the high school drama teacher thing has been slung at JT over the past two weeks during house of commons.
It would have made more sense for Trudeau to address it far better than he did.. but I don't consider it the first shot fired. Matter of fact in the grand scheme of things... since campaigning for leadership, Pierre has made it his life to attack Trudeau. Going after his policies is one thing.. but the mocking and misleading is dumb. Personal opinion, it was these tactics that lost Harper his government. The Conservatives may have elected their own worst enemy by giving Pierre the leadership. He's like a political robot when it comes to slinging attacks and 'zing' words.
I don't think most Canadians want this horse manure politics on either side.
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For a party and a leader who pride themselves on accountability... Pierre did something and continues to do things in the House of Commons that are to me at least completely disrespectful and rude.
To be clear, I don't like Trudeau and would love a better PM. That said... Pierre continues to take immature pot shots at the PM in the House. Non stop chirps about the "high school drama teacher," which in itself is disrespectful and completely unnecessary. Last week however he sunk to a new low by insinuating that the PM was dismissed from his job as a teacher because of sexual misconduct with a minor.. a completely de-bunked story that is amplified by the far right of our country.
Today, he gets asked about that comment not once but twice and cowards away from answering like a sniveling little weasel. And in the same press conference, he issues ultimatums to our government and vows to block any progress unless these conditions are not met.
In a country that absolutely needs it's governments to work together... we have this doosh mocking our leader personally and then issuing ultimatums to our democratically elected government.
Unfortunately as far as I know the story isn’t actually debunked because the NDA Trudeau’s lawyers negotiated is still in place. Too bad no one’s fought to have the gag order lifted like there was with Trump’s arrangement with Stormy.
If there’s nothing untoward in his dismissal then Trudeau himself could address it but as far as I can tell he continues to hide behind the NDA.
It is entirely possible that his dismissal was due to his blackface appearance, but the question also needs to be asked by his supporters how they will feel if it turns out the worst is true and we have a PM who abused a student under his authority? I honestly think that’s a fair question that those who have voted for his party need to consider.
Only one person can really clear up this issue but his record on openness and transparency suggest that we’ll never know the truth.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Comments
If Trudeau wants to retroactively claim he was incentivizing people to get vaccinated, where was my carrot in the form of a payment or tax credit for getting the first two shots (which required me to set aside my own discomfort with the rushed “science” and what turned out to be false claims in its efficacy)?
From my point of view since covid never reached the point (yet) of an existential threat to humanity, all the hysteria was overblown. The measures that actually worked to stop spread were the lockdowns, isolation and quarantine, methods that I understand were effective back in the Middle Ages during the bubonic plague.
And Hugh you implied that my own characterization of Trudeau’s new take as revisionist history as over the top, which I allow was a bit hyperbolic but I still say a lot of hyperbole gets directed at the political right that goes unchallenged by most. I do get that this forum skews to the left but we should all (myself included) be striving to see things as they are, not forcing them into our own particular worldviews.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I suppose one person's incentive is another person's entitlement? I don't know. If you didn't want to get the jab, then you shouldn't have gotten it. I'd be more concerned you are so easily purchased into getting something you deem "rushed science". And they weren't false claims. It was what was believed would be achieved outside in the real world at the time. People call that lying; I call that the scientific method.
The hysteria was not overblown in the context of the first wave and subsequent few variants. if it was back then like it is now, I'd agree with you. But people were dying and hospitals were overrun for months. Ask any health care worker: this was underblown by the public and health authorities. Doctors and nurses were calling for more strict lockdowns and mandates!
I didn't say your comment was over the top of hyperbolic. I said it was incorrect. nothing more. But, if I'm understanding your last paragraph, if I find something you say to be hyperbole, I'm supposed to ignore it because other lefties are hyperbolic too?
It appears to me you seem to believe that just because I don't get outraged over everything Trudeau has done, that I've been somehow brainwashed or I'm at the very least hyper partisan, or not being fair. As I've said, he's made some mistakes. I'm not a big fan. The whole "unacceptable views" comment; I didn't think that was very ministerial. He should have kept that to himself. he could have left it as a "small minority" or even "fringe" didn't bother me.
I've acknowledged my own biases that for sure play a part in the level of annoyance of any given politician. anyone who claims otherwise is a robot. I try to be as objective as they come but even I know 100% objectivity isn't real.
I've said it before: if someone else comes along that is better, I'll vote for them. Right now he is head and shoulders above the competition. So I will continue to vote for him. I wanted to vote for Jagmeet so bad. But he ruined it. And Pierre is dangerous in his rhetoric. The Greens are a joke at this point.
www.headstonesband.com
Yes, local movements were determined by provincial and municipal governments, but methods of travel were limited by the federal government (hence the discussion around the federal mandates, since it was Trudeau that is now claiming a different course of events than many of us experienced).
So the human race faced extinction with covid? I have never seen any numbers that came close to that threshold.
I’ll also add that Trudeau has out-Harpered the man himself, with his omnibus bills and legislative trickery (just for a start).
Food for thought:
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
www.headstonesband.com
Were you comfortable when the Canadian government, without any data to justify the move, decided that it was ok to extend the gap between doses? Was that good science that followed the scientific method? Or was it done for political reasons?
I’d still also like to see some objective analysis done to determine which measures were actually effective. When we tried opening up after hitting a critical mass of vaccinations the provincial and municipal governments were generally forced to reenact the lockdowns and gathering limits. That in and of itself should cause one to consider how effective the vaccines were compared to the other measures. I’m not hopeful this government will ever undertake such a study so I suppose it falls to academia.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/khartoum-sudan-violence-1.6826953
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
https://apple.news/AWFIOjzNXTISM6mIp8G1I2A
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
https://globalnews.ca/news/9663972/ontario-man-sentenced-throwing-gravel-prime-minister/
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I’m going to preemptively stop any comparisons some might consider making to Freeland’s encounter or anything else that has occurred domestically. Not even the gravel tosser I posted about earlier. Apples and oranges, definitely.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/trudeau-knew-but-didnt-act-on-chinas-threats-to-mps-family
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/csis-annual-report-1.6831920
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/st-thomas-ont-man-sentenced-to-house-arrest-probation-for-throwing-rocks-at-trudeau-1.6835722
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Unfortunately they shortly after cut to Trudeau getting a live briefing from the military deployed to fight the wildfires, showing (again) a case of showing that what’s good for the goose isn’t for the gander, with Trudeau having criticized Harper for making a similar trip. If memory serves correctly this isn’t Trudeau’s first visit to the wildfires as well. Maybe this one’s ok because it’s just a stopover on his way to Japan, lol?
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
That said.. most of what Pierre says about JT is largely true. That said... he is bringing conservative politics back into the strategy that I believe ultimately cost them their worst loss in election history... attacking.
You can blame JT for a lot of things... he's awful. But... and I can only speak for myself here but I think history has shown that quite a few Canucks agree with me here. Don't tell me why your opponent is awful... tell me how you're different and what you're going to do for the public that is largely better than what our current government is doing.
Housing is an example. Conservatives (Polievre and Ford) are beating us over the head with 'housing crisis.' Polievre talks about the 'gatekeepers' stopping developments. (I recall a recent politician who was also super against regulation, ahem, Trump) Then you have Ford wanting to remove conservation spaces to re-zone for housing. Thing is... while they are opening the door for more housing, they are also VERY much opening the door and keeping super quiet about how much money developers, contractors, and the real estate sector is going to make here. Allowing developers to build on more land and then charge whatever the going rate is for housing is not a solution to this 'crisis' we're facing.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Polievre has stated that Trudeau's woke economic policies are causing more homelessness in Canada.
Does anyone here know what those policies are?
Also, what makes them woke?
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
As for attacking the incumbent in an election I do believe that criticism should be levelled when warranted but it is more important to present a solid platform of their own. Right now, with no election imminent I don’t see a need for the opposition parties to have full platforms available, since they aren’t the ones in power and their current role is to hold the sitting government to account.
This one’s a bit of a head scratcher for me, I suspect he may be confusing provincial court rulings with the federal government, because I believe it’s been the courts that have ruled in favour of rights for the homeless, as a start.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I would personally want to know in detail what his opponent would do different.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Another option for accountability would be enacting recall legislation but I’ve yet to see any politician bring in measures to hold themselves to account.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
American politics is a prime example. All the things Trump did with regard to circumventing accountability (executive privileges, etc) To the best of my knowledge, not one democrat has attempted to cut back on Biden's executive powers. One would think that if they hated what Trump did so much, their first order of business would be to see that another President wouldn't be able to exploit what he did. Alas... here we are.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
There’s enough room for discussion of Trudeau’s travel habits and expenses I believe, but right now (attending an international summit) is one time I throw my support behind (whoever’s) the PM on the basis that they’re representing the entire country (as long as the current PM can stay away from the piano bar, lol).
Edit: I supported the trip to India until the costumes became an issue, so supporting the PM on the international stage isn’t a carte blanche affair.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
https://apple.news/AfXeRFpDSSESROcBOsLtdGg
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
To me, it's like releasing an ad against his jay-walking. Forget SNC-Lavalin... no, no... jaywalking.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
I don't agree with her assertion that Pierre is 'vibing' better than Trudeau. In general... EVERYTHING aside.. just looking at the way the two people perform... Trudeau is a nice, stately man. Pierre is an annoying D-Bag.
Trudeau should be low hanging fruit to any political contender. Strangely though, Pierre still seems to 'vibe' with populism. To me, that won't 'vibe' well with most Canadians.
The sooner Pierre loses the words "regime" and "woke" from his campaign vernacular, the sooner I would consider voting for him... but that's still far fetched considering his track record and campaign strategy.
The day he stood next to a man who compared COVID to the Holocaust... and straight faced agreed with him.... that left a sour taste in my mouth... as much as I don't like Trudeau.
Whenever I talk to Trudeau haters I always say that I think he would win another election. Baffled, people then lose their minds to me. lol
Those same people can never tell me anything from the last election. But the stats are simple. To de-throne Trudeau, you need to convince approx. 2 million Canadians to stop thinking left, and start thinking right... or least realize that the Trudeau stench is too strong to deal with anymore. Pierre is not doing a good enough job of that... which should be pretty easy.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
For a party and a leader who pride themselves on accountability... Pierre did something and continues to do things in the House of Commons that are to me at least completely disrespectful and rude.
To be clear, I don't like Trudeau and would love a better PM. That said... Pierre continues to take immature pot shots at the PM in the House. Non stop chirps about the "high school drama teacher," which in itself is disrespectful and completely unnecessary. Last week however he sunk to a new low by insinuating that the PM was dismissed from his job as a teacher because of sexual misconduct with a minor.. a completely de-bunked story that is amplified by the far right of our country.
Today, he gets asked about that comment not once but twice and cowards away from answering like a sniveling little weasel. And in the same press conference, he issues ultimatums to our government and vows to block any progress unless these conditions are not met.
In a country that absolutely needs it's governments to work together... we have this doosh mocking our leader personally and then issuing ultimatums to our democratically elected government.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
www.headstonesband.com
It would have made more sense for Trudeau to address it far better than he did.. but I don't consider it the first shot fired. Matter of fact in the grand scheme of things... since campaigning for leadership, Pierre has made it his life to attack Trudeau. Going after his policies is one thing.. but the mocking and misleading is dumb. Personal opinion, it was these tactics that lost Harper his government. The Conservatives may have elected their own worst enemy by giving Pierre the leadership. He's like a political robot when it comes to slinging attacks and 'zing' words.
I don't think most Canadians want this horse manure politics on either side.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
If there’s nothing untoward in his dismissal then Trudeau himself could address it but as far as I can tell he continues to hide behind the NDA.
It is entirely possible that his dismissal was due to his blackface appearance, but the question also needs to be asked by his supporters how they will feel if it turns out the worst is true and we have a PM who abused a student under his authority? I honestly think that’s a fair question that those who have voted for his party need to consider.
Only one person can really clear up this issue but his record on openness and transparency suggest that we’ll never know the truth.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022