Big box stores, large greenhouses, factories all were allowed to operate. But yet somehow your convinced the small mom and pop who could easily control the amount of people in their establishments were going cause Covid to spread..Yet 200 people is fine n a big stor…yeah common sense calls bullshit on that
yeah common sense states that the stores that could serve the biggest group for food should stay open. a mom and pop store simply couldn't do that. factories were necessary to keep the economy moving. I did not agree that places that sold electronics could stay open. but supermarkets? yep.
if you thought it was a grand idea to have 2000 people lined up outside a 200 square foot store that could accommodate 5 people at a time, not distanced (that's the key), making your wait for a jug of milk 4 days, then, um, common sense is not really your forte.
and our supermarkets did control how many people were in them. i saw it first hand. one person at the front with a counter, one person at the exit with one, each radioing the other on a constant basis. people lined up outside. directional floor decals. mom and pops simply couldn't logistically do that. it was unfortunate. but necessary, especially pre-vaccine.
Dude, I don't really care what you have to say. You're a celebrity worshipper and Trudeau is a celebrity you worship...anyone knows what Trudeau is doing is wrong and there is plenty of evidence to support that...you choose to ignore that evidence you let hate for a movement cloud your judgement...you should continue to engage with your fellow liberal cultist...just sayin'
yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal.
I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.
omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.
there is no denying this.
Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.
the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread.
in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates.
Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.
I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.
I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.
what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?
It would be a combination of hospitalization statistics, community spread, severity of the dominant strain, all balanced against our wonderful rights and freedoms. (I’m probably missing some factors to be considered, but that’s what jumps to top of mind.)
As I typed the above, cbc had a doctor on who was making the point that given the current situation it seems reasonable to ease restrictions and end the segregation of the unvaccinated (transmission by the vaccinated being specifically cited). Which begs the question of the Prime Minister, why continue the divisive and antagonistic policies and rhetoric? What will it accomplish now?
yes, we've all known this would happen for a while. we've all known that plans were in place since mid-january that most or all restrictions would end this coming spring. which makes this convoy all the more absurd. and the claim of victory laughable.
trudeau is trying to get these idiots to end their occupation. it's interesting you call him antagonizing. he is the one RESPONDING to the antagonizing.
You’ve apparently chosen (or just as likely see it differently) to not acknowledge Trudeau’s shift from “Canada doesn’t mandate vaccines” in June to “Mandates or the highway” when he called the election in August (credibly established by members of his own caucus). Remember the uproar over unvaccinated Conservatives when Parliament returned? Since the election he’s done everything he can to paint anyone (not minorities, obviously) who has questions or disagreements as anti-vaccine and a card-carrying Conservative. He has been utterly inflexible on his policies, despite only leading a minority government (clear mandate my ass).
As I see it (feel free to disagree, I know many will), but Trudeau began laying the groundwork for the current protests when he chose to conquer and divide in the last election. These are his chickens coming home to roost.
It was very telling as I watched the emergency debate that all the parties were talking about the need to bring the people together. Except the Liberal party which wanted to unite Canadians by everyone acquiescing to their policies with zero negotiation.
policies tend to change as situations change. he was hoping enough people would be smart enough to get the jab.
Just to be clear, you’re saying mandates were an evolution of policy, not a political tactic in an election? Is MP Lightbound a liar?
a liar? that he has an opinion that mirrors yours? that he was pro mandate but now because of how he views the vaccine's effectiveness as "very low" because it doesn't protect much against infection (but again, it does against severe outcomes)? again, that view makes no sense to me.
I couldn't give two shits if omicron gives 30 million people the sniffles. if it stops 70% of those who would normally suffer severe outcomes, then yes, it's STILL HIGHLY EFFECTIVE.
it's weird to me to make such a substantial change in stance simply because you might get a runny nose now instead of not. why should that be the main driving factor? shouldn't DEATH be the main factor?
Dude, I don't really care what you have to say. You're a celebrity worshipper and Trudeau is a celebrity you worship...anyone knows what Trudeau is doing is wrong and there is plenty of evidence to support that...you choose to ignore that evidence you let hate for a movement cloud your judgement...you should continue to engage with your fellow liberal cultist...just sayin'
then put me on ignore, genius.
you need to believe I worship trudeau because otherwise my views confuse you. fine. believe what you want. I couldn't give two shits. especially someone who posts racist memes and openly body shames people. we all know who you are. you show us with each consecutive idiotic post. keep it up.
I know you have trouble understanding that you can dislike a politician and still agree with some things they do, and vice versa. it's ok. we get it. thinking for yourself is hard.
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
Hamilton 9-13-05; Toronto 5-9-06, Toronto 8-21-09, Toronto 9-12-11, Hamilton 9-15-11....
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
I meant they had no affect on easing of restrictions.
why any need to interact with them? this information was readily available anywhere you read. first alberta, then saskatchewan, then manitoba, we all knew it was going to be a domino effect, as long as it looked like the wave was heading downward, which all signs pointed to since December when we saw the modeling from South Africa (it was assumed and hoped we all would follow the same short trajectory-so far we have). so these people decided they were going to affect change that was already happening and claim victory. it's hilarious.
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
Biden pressured JT to go to court to break the protest, not to negotiate or acquiesce.
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
Biden pressured JT to go to court to break the protest, not to negotiate or acquiesce.
I also stated earlier in this thread that court was an option...but guess what Biden doesn't get to decide He's just meddling old man...
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
Biden pressured JT to go to court to break the protest, not to negotiate or acquiesce.
I also stated earlier in this thread that court was an option...but guess what Biden doesn't get to decide He's just meddling old man...
Well guess what, JT went to court, got an order and the Bridge is open. So go yell at some clouds.
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
Biden pressured JT to go to court to break the protest, not to negotiate or acquiesce.
I also stated earlier in this thread that court was an option...but guess what Biden doesn't get to decide He's just meddling old man...
Well guess what, JT went to court, got an order and the Bridge is open. So go yell at some clouds.
he didn't go to court...do your research...otherwise, you continue to look ignorant...i think your senile president yells at the clouds...
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
I meant they had no affect on easing of restrictions.
why any need to interact with them? this information was readily available anywhere you read. first alberta, then saskatchewan, then manitoba, we all knew it was going to be a domino effect, as long as it looked like the wave was heading downward, which all signs pointed to since December when we saw the modeling from South Africa (it was assumed and hoped we all would follow the same short trajectory-so far we have). so these people decided they were going to affect change that was already happening and claim victory. it's hilarious.
Exactly. Anyone paying attention to omicron waves in other places around the world knew it would hit hard and fast then retreat.
No politician this late in the pandemic wanted to keep restrictions on longer than needed. Especially given how well vaccines have worked and new effective treatments. The restrictions were put in place to mainly protect our healthcare system from the unvaccinated, we knew they would over burden our hospitals.
Sane Canadians knew that the end of this wave was coming soon, so we didn't feel the need to throw a tantrum and hurt more people unnecessarily. Smooth brains just couldn't help themselves though. Had to stick it to the Libs and hurt the Canadian economy. Could have just waited a couple of weeks.
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
Biden pressured JT to go to court to break the protest, not to negotiate or acquiesce.
I also stated earlier in this thread that court was an option...but guess what Biden doesn't get to decide He's just meddling old man...
Well guess what, JT went to court, got an order and the Bridge is open. So go yell at some clouds.
he didn't go to court...do your research...otherwise, you continue to look ignorant...i think your senile president yells at the clouds...
Fine, a court ordered the bridge cleared. Check your lithium.
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
Biden pressured JT to go to court to break the protest, not to negotiate or acquiesce.
I also stated earlier in this thread that court was an option...but guess what Biden doesn't get to decide He's just meddling old man...
Well guess what, JT went to court, got an order and the Bridge is open. So go yell at some clouds.
he didn't go to court...do your research...otherwise, you continue to look ignorant...i think your senile president yells at the clouds...
BTW, still waiting for you to quote me saying Ukraine is in NATO. When's that going to happen? Don't think I forgot the idiocy you put on full display in the Ukraine page.
yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal.
I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.
omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.
there is no denying this.
Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.
the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread.
in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates.
Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.
I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.
I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.
what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?
It would be a combination of hospitalization statistics, community spread, severity of the dominant strain, all balanced against our wonderful rights and freedoms. (I’m probably missing some factors to be considered, but that’s what jumps to top of mind.)
As I typed the above, cbc had a doctor on who was making the point that given the current situation it seems reasonable to ease restrictions and end the segregation of the unvaccinated (transmission by the vaccinated being specifically cited). Which begs the question of the Prime Minister, why continue the divisive and antagonistic policies and rhetoric? What will it accomplish now?
yes, we've all known this would happen for a while. we've all known that plans were in place since mid-january that most or all restrictions would end this coming spring. which makes this convoy all the more absurd. and the claim of victory laughable.
trudeau is trying to get these idiots to end their occupation. it's interesting you call him antagonizing. he is the one RESPONDING to the antagonizing.
You’ve apparently chosen (or just as likely see it differently) to not acknowledge Trudeau’s shift from “Canada doesn’t mandate vaccines” in June to “Mandates or the highway” when he called the election in August (credibly established by members of his own caucus). Remember the uproar over unvaccinated Conservatives when Parliament returned? Since the election he’s done everything he can to paint anyone (not minorities, obviously) who has questions or disagreements as anti-vaccine and a card-carrying Conservative. He has been utterly inflexible on his policies, despite only leading a minority government (clear mandate my ass).
As I see it (feel free to disagree, I know many will), but Trudeau began laying the groundwork for the current protests when he chose to conquer and divide in the last election. These are his chickens coming home to roost.
It was very telling as I watched the emergency debate that all the parties were talking about the need to bring the people together. Except the Liberal party which wanted to unite Canadians by everyone acquiescing to their policies with zero negotiation.
policies tend to change as situations change. he was hoping enough people would be smart enough to get the jab.
Just to be clear, you’re saying mandates were an evolution of policy, not a political tactic in an election? Is MP Lightbound a liar?
a liar? that he has an opinion that mirrors yours? that he was pro mandate but now because of how he views the vaccine's effectiveness as "very low" because it doesn't protect much against infection (but again, it does against severe outcomes)? again, that view makes no sense to me.
I couldn't give two shits if omicron gives 30 million people the sniffles. if it stops 70% of those who would normally suffer severe outcomes, then yes, it's STILL HIGHLY EFFECTIVE.
it's weird to me to make such a substantial change in stance simply because you might get a runny nose now instead of not. why should that be the main driving factor? shouldn't DEATH be the main factor?
Why do you feel the need to keep reminding me of my own words regarding mitigation of outcomes?
I suggest you read this article, especially the statements regarding the trucker mandate where Lightbound confirms there has been no science to support the mandate (well, maybe there is, we’re all used to Trudeau not being “open and transparent” with any information by now).
Remember just before the pointless election (other than killing the order to produce the Winnipeg lab papers), all the health experts (who Trudeau claims he listens to) were practically begging politicians to NOT politicize vaccines? And right out of the gates Trudeau did.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
Biden pressured JT to go to court to break the protest, not to negotiate or acquiesce.
I also stated earlier in this thread that court was an option...but guess what Biden doesn't get to decide He's just meddling old man...
Well guess what, JT went to court, got an order and the Bridge is open. So go yell at some clouds.
he didn't go to court...do your research...otherwise, you continue to look ignorant...i think your senile president yells at the clouds...
the same guy who got outed for not knowing what he was talking about re: the US constitution and when called out and told to read the specific article, proclaimed he would refuse to read it, knowing he was correct. hahahaha
yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal.
I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.
omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.
there is no denying this.
Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.
the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread.
in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates.
Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.
I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.
I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.
what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?
It would be a combination of hospitalization statistics, community spread, severity of the dominant strain, all balanced against our wonderful rights and freedoms. (I’m probably missing some factors to be considered, but that’s what jumps to top of mind.)
As I typed the above, cbc had a doctor on who was making the point that given the current situation it seems reasonable to ease restrictions and end the segregation of the unvaccinated (transmission by the vaccinated being specifically cited). Which begs the question of the Prime Minister, why continue the divisive and antagonistic policies and rhetoric? What will it accomplish now?
yes, we've all known this would happen for a while. we've all known that plans were in place since mid-january that most or all restrictions would end this coming spring. which makes this convoy all the more absurd. and the claim of victory laughable.
trudeau is trying to get these idiots to end their occupation. it's interesting you call him antagonizing. he is the one RESPONDING to the antagonizing.
You’ve apparently chosen (or just as likely see it differently) to not acknowledge Trudeau’s shift from “Canada doesn’t mandate vaccines” in June to “Mandates or the highway” when he called the election in August (credibly established by members of his own caucus). Remember the uproar over unvaccinated Conservatives when Parliament returned? Since the election he’s done everything he can to paint anyone (not minorities, obviously) who has questions or disagreements as anti-vaccine and a card-carrying Conservative. He has been utterly inflexible on his policies, despite only leading a minority government (clear mandate my ass).
As I see it (feel free to disagree, I know many will), but Trudeau began laying the groundwork for the current protests when he chose to conquer and divide in the last election. These are his chickens coming home to roost.
It was very telling as I watched the emergency debate that all the parties were talking about the need to bring the people together. Except the Liberal party which wanted to unite Canadians by everyone acquiescing to their policies with zero negotiation.
policies tend to change as situations change. he was hoping enough people would be smart enough to get the jab.
Just to be clear, you’re saying mandates were an evolution of policy, not a political tactic in an election? Is MP Lightbound a liar?
a liar? that he has an opinion that mirrors yours? that he was pro mandate but now because of how he views the vaccine's effectiveness as "very low" because it doesn't protect much against infection (but again, it does against severe outcomes)? again, that view makes no sense to me.
I couldn't give two shits if omicron gives 30 million people the sniffles. if it stops 70% of those who would normally suffer severe outcomes, then yes, it's STILL HIGHLY EFFECTIVE.
it's weird to me to make such a substantial change in stance simply because you might get a runny nose now instead of not. why should that be the main driving factor? shouldn't DEATH be the main factor?
Why do you feel the need to keep reminding me of my own words regarding mitigation of outcomes?
I suggest you read this article, especially the statements regarding the trucker mandate where Lightbound confirms there has been no science to support the mandate (well, maybe there is, we’re all used to Trudeau not being “open and transparent” with any information by now).
Remember just before the pointless election (other than killing the order to produce the Winnipeg lab papers), all the health experts (who Trudeau claims he listens to) were practically begging politicians to NOT politicize vaccines? And right out of the gates Trudeau did.
it was relevant because you brought up a guy who changed his stance on vaccines based on failed logic.
This is how you lose support and why the polling I've seen shows coalescing AGAINST the alleged Freedom Convoy. Their protest cost $300 million in wages and lost revenue to both companies and workers in Michigan and Canada. When you disrupt people's daily lives because you think your cause supersedes everyone else's priorities, you lose. It stops being about your cause very quickly.
Have at your vaccine. I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed. They lied. It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..
I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked. It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit.
yeah, because the pandemic has been static for two years.
these protests did nothing. these restrictions being lifted were in the works for weeks. but sure, keep on believing in your "victory". hahaha
lockdowns worked to ease the burden on the health care system; fact. but you don't care about doctors and nurses who have been demonized while healing the sick, spat on for doing their jobs, exhausted from treating the unvaccinated; just the "oppressed" truckers.
way to be on the right side.
I have to respectfully disagree on your take regarding the convoy. I feel this was successful on a couple levels. One, being the publics increased involvement in politics once again- either for or against (I believe Oftenreading mentioned this before). Secondly, if anything it has shown that the people can have their voices heard regardless of the method or size and make an impact. Finally, Unity across all cultures. Yes yes i get you guys are against this.. ive seen it on the last hundred pages. Ha
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
Biden pressured JT to go to court to break the protest, not to negotiate or acquiesce.
I also stated earlier in this thread that court was an option...but guess what Biden doesn't get to decide He's just meddling old man...
Well guess what, JT went to court, got an order and the Bridge is open. So go yell at some clouds.
he didn't go to court...do your research...otherwise, you continue to look ignorant...i think your senile president yells at the clouds...
Fine, a court ordered the bridge cleared. Check your lithium.
It’s difficult to find a definitive answer but I was fairly certain it was local authorities (either the police or the city government) that sought the injunction. So meltdown was right in that Justin had nothing to do with clearing that blockade. He missed filling in the blanks, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Comments
if you thought it was a grand idea to have 2000 people lined up outside a 200 square foot store that could accommodate 5 people at a time, not distanced (that's the key), making your wait for a jug of milk 4 days, then, um, common sense is not really your forte.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
I couldn't give two shits if omicron gives 30 million people the sniffles. if it stops 70% of those who would normally suffer severe outcomes, then yes, it's STILL HIGHLY EFFECTIVE.
it's weird to me to make such a substantial change in stance simply because you might get a runny nose now instead of not. why should that be the main driving factor? shouldn't DEATH be the main factor?
www.headstonesband.com
you need to believe I worship trudeau because otherwise my views confuse you. fine. believe what you want. I couldn't give two shits. especially someone who posts racist memes and openly body shames people. we all know who you are. you show us with each consecutive idiotic post. keep it up.
www.headstonesband.com
And try supporting your opinions with facts not hate. ..this prime minister is the biggest sack shit alive and people like you enable this shit...
Meltdown99 said: and this....well.....this is two sentences that are so devoid of any type of sensical reasoning, it's really quite astounding.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
If talks were taking place in January- why not interact with convoy to inform at that time? I guess you would still have protests (people camping out and such) but perhaps a smaller contingent not tying up the streets of Ottawa or across Canada. I think it was the pressure applied with the blocking of the ambassador bridge if anything that finally got it to the point we are at today. Pressure from Biden and the auto industry greased the wheels. Also, let me put on my tin foil hat for a sec haha, if talks/plans were in place, was this a ploy for JT to invoke the EMA? tighter Gov't controls?
To refer to this group as the free-dumb convoy as many of you have stated here, is just wrong, they are anything but imo.
bash away...
why any need to interact with them? this information was readily available anywhere you read. first alberta, then saskatchewan, then manitoba, we all knew it was going to be a domino effect, as long as it looked like the wave was heading downward, which all signs pointed to since December when we saw the modeling from South Africa (it was assumed and hoped we all would follow the same short trajectory-so far we have). so these people decided they were going to affect change that was already happening and claim victory. it's hilarious.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
No politician this late in the pandemic wanted to keep restrictions on longer than needed. Especially given how well vaccines have worked and new effective treatments. The restrictions were put in place to mainly protect our healthcare system from the unvaccinated, we knew they would over burden our hospitals.
Sane Canadians knew that the end of this wave was coming soon, so we didn't feel the need to throw a tantrum and hurt more people unnecessarily. Smooth brains just couldn't help themselves though. Had to stick it to the Libs and hurt the Canadian economy. Could have just waited a couple of weeks.
www.headstonesband.com
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6343730
I suggest you read this article, especially the statements regarding the trucker mandate where Lightbound confirms there has been no science to support the mandate (well, maybe there is, we’re all used to Trudeau not being “open and transparent” with any information by now).
Remember just before the pointless election (other than killing the order to produce the Winnipeg lab papers), all the health experts (who Trudeau claims he listens to) were practically begging politicians to NOT politicize vaccines? And right out of the gates Trudeau did.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/accessibility/594424-ongoing-trucker-protests-at-us-canada-border-prompted
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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