Canadian Politics Redux

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,882
    Why cancel it, I wonder? Would have been more effective to go ahead and highlight the fact that they are not participating. Climate change doesn't stop just because some people refuse to acknowledge it.
    Indeed!
    It's so crazy to me why anyone or any party should/would shy away from this important issue. 
    Sheer and Trump are one and the same regarding the environment. They don't think it's a problem....
    Meanwhile, Canadian voters now consider it the #1 issue.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:
    Meanwhile, Canadian voters now consider it the #1 issue.
    As it should be !!  
    What we don't need is a step back in the wrong direction on this issue.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,303
    It is going to be a minority government and the liberals spending 20 billion on a fucking pipeline to sell oil to China tells me that care very little about the environment.

    The cons and liberals are essentially the same...
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,497
    holy shit Obama just endorsed Trudeau on twitter. 
    12/29/19
  • herogroundzeroherogroundzero Posts: 204
    edited October 16
    ^^^ Very Cool. Love that guy. Still
    and for sure he would not endorse someone who's pro life and anti-abortion
    Post edited by herogroundzero on
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,882
    ^^^ Very Cool. Love that guy. Still
    and for sure he would not endorse someone who's pro life and anti-abortion
    Of course not - I think the surprise might be that he chose Trudeau over Singh? But he knows Trudeau, and they got along well if memory serves, so this makes sense. It's quite an endorsement.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,497
    I have asked for a source on this "fun fact", but I have been told that in the 73 years since WW2, the federal budget has been balanced only 24 times. 

    21 times by Liberals. 
    3 times by Conservatives. 
    12/29/19
  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Calgary ABPosts: 1,345
    I have to tell you, it’s getting harder and harder to be a proud Albertan. I’m sick of all the constant whining about how we paid so much in transfer payments and now we are struggling.  The only people struggling are the ones who pissed, coked or spent away everything they made. By spent I mean a 3/4 tonne pickup, 27’ toy trailer, pair of quads, house bigger than their needs and in some cases a boat. House sales are up 16% in Calgary alone year over year.  How are we “struggling”? Why do we continue to espouse this narrative to the rest of the country? To get some pipelines built... yeah. It’s a lie folks. It isn’t that bad here. Still building houses and condos. Lots of them.

    Politically, I am embarrassed by our provincial government’s response to Greta Thunberg’s visit this week (not even mentioning the deadbeats on social media).  Telling her to “go visit Russia, Saudi’s Arabia, Iran” was straight out bully tactics. This is a 16 year-old! 

    That’s really just the tip of the iceberg on my venting. But I guess I’m just hoping my fellow Canadian Jammers don’t lump us all together.  Not all Albertans are as depicted by the media.  I’ve changed a lot in the past five years, mostly by educating myself and rediscovering the kind, thoughtful, caring side of myself that I allowed to be overrun with fables of how “Ontario doesn’t care” and “those hippies in BC are fucking us over”. I apologize for offending anyone in the past and I am so happy that insecure, self-absorbed person of the past is gone. 

    I’m not even talking about the morons who want “Wexit” and wear those idiotic “Make Alberta Great Again” hats.  Change is coming fast and I am on the train! To Greta I say “Welcome!”  


     


    “We’re keepin it loose, maybe not Grateful Dead loose... but like Rolling Stones loose”
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,497
    ^^^ thank you. 

    the thing about Greta, I don't give her the "she's only 16" pass. I highly respect what she's doing, that's amazing. but if she wants to wade into the adult waters, then we can't treat her like she's still in the shallow end. Do I condone the assholes calling her names and making fun of her appearance or her asperger's? no, that is sick no matter what your age. I just think wanting to treat her as an intelligent and knowledgeable person, it does her a disservice to say "she's only 16! leave her alone!". I think it de-legitimizes her cause and abilities. 
    12/29/19
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,573
    I have to tell you, it’s getting harder and harder to be a proud Albertan. I’m sick of all the constant whining about how we paid so much in transfer payments and now we are struggling.  The only people struggling are the ones who pissed, coked or spent away everything they made. By spent I mean a 3/4 tonne pickup, 27’ toy trailer, pair of quads, house bigger than their needs and in some cases a boat. House sales are up 16% in Calgary alone year over year.  How are we “struggling”? Why do we continue to espouse this narrative to the rest of the country? To get some pipelines built... yeah. It’s a lie folks. It isn’t that bad here. Still building houses and condos. Lots of them.

    Politically, I am embarrassed by our provincial government’s response to Greta Thunberg’s visit this week (not even mentioning the deadbeats on social media).  Telling her to “go visit Russia, Saudi’s Arabia, Iran” was straight out bully tactics. This is a 16 year-old! 

    That’s really just the tip of the iceberg on my venting. But I guess I’m just hoping my fellow Canadian Jammers don’t lump us all together.  Not all Albertans are as depicted by the media.  I’ve changed a lot in the past five years, mostly by educating myself and rediscovering the kind, thoughtful, caring side of myself that I allowed to be overrun with fables of how “Ontario doesn’t care” and “those hippies in BC are fucking us over”. I apologize for offending anyone in the past and I am so happy that insecure, self-absorbed person of the past is gone. 

    I’m not even talking about the morons who want “Wexit” and wear those idiotic “Make Alberta Great Again” hats.  Change is coming fast and I am on the train! To Greta I say “Welcome!”  


     


    Amen fellow Albertan.



  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Calgary ABPosts: 1,345
    edited October 18
    ^^^ thank you. 

    the thing about Greta, I don't give her the "she's only 16" pass. I highly respect what she's doing, that's amazing. but if she wants to wade into the adult waters, then we can't treat her like she's still in the shallow end. Do I condone the assholes calling her names and making fun of her appearance or her asperger's? no, that is sick no matter what your age. I just think wanting to treat her as an intelligent and knowledgeable person, it does her a disservice to say "she's only 16! leave her alone!". I think it de-legitimizes her cause and abilities. 
    It is unacceptable for the provincial government that represents me to bully a 16 year old visiting our province that simply wants world leaders to do more in the face of an environmental crisis no one can dispute. The provincial government representatives speak on behalf of all Albertans and should conduct itself accordingly.
    I did not say she should be left alone... just treated with respect and dignity any other visitor would receive, well-known or otherwise.  The fact she is a kid leaves an especially bad taste in my mouth.  I was raised to let and even encourage kids have dreams and goals no matter what your personal opinion on the subject might be. 
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
    “We’re keepin it loose, maybe not Grateful Dead loose... but like Rolling Stones loose”
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,497
    ^^^ thank you. 

    the thing about Greta, I don't give her the "she's only 16" pass. I highly respect what she's doing, that's amazing. but if she wants to wade into the adult waters, then we can't treat her like she's still in the shallow end. Do I condone the assholes calling her names and making fun of her appearance or her asperger's? no, that is sick no matter what your age. I just think wanting to treat her as an intelligent and knowledgeable person, it does her a disservice to say "she's only 16! leave her alone!". I think it de-legitimizes her cause and abilities. 
    It is unacceptable for the provincial government that represents me to bully a 16 year old visiting our province that simply wants world leaders to do more in the face of an environmental crisis no one can dispute. The provincial government representatives speak on behalf of all Albertans and should conduct itself accordingly.
    I did not say she should be left alone... just treated with respect and dignity any other visitor would receive, well-known or otherwise. 
    i didn't realize you were talking about the government. i thought you were referencing private citizens. holy shit. that's brutal. 
    12/29/19
  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Calgary ABPosts: 1,345
    edited October 18
    ^^^ thank you. 

    the thing about Greta, I don't give her the "she's only 16" pass. I highly respect what she's doing, that's amazing. but if she wants to wade into the adult waters, then we can't treat her like she's still in the shallow end. Do I condone the assholes calling her names and making fun of her appearance or her asperger's? no, that is sick no matter what your age. I just think wanting to treat her as an intelligent and knowledgeable person, it does her a disservice to say "she's only 16! leave her alone!". I think it de-legitimizes her cause and abilities. 
    It is unacceptable for the provincial government that represents me to bully a 16 year old visiting our province that simply wants world leaders to do more in the face of an environmental crisis no one can dispute. The provincial government representatives speak on behalf of all Albertans and should conduct itself accordingly.
    I did not say she should be left alone... just treated with respect and dignity any other visitor would receive, well-known or otherwise. 
    i didn't realize you were talking about the government. i thought you were referencing private citizens. holy shit. that's brutal. 
    “ Meanwhile, the United Conservative government said on Sunday they expect Thunberg to consider what they described as Alberta’s leading human rights and environmental record.
    In a statement from Christine Myatt, spokesperson for the Alberta premier’s office, the government “trusts” she’ll recognize these traits especially “in comparison to oil-producing dictatorships such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia, and Venezuela — which she will presumably visit next — as well as major growing emitters like China.“

    That was the terse statement given from our Premier when she announced she was visiting. It’s insulting and a bullying tactic. Jason Kenney is trash. 
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
    “We’re keepin it loose, maybe not Grateful Dead loose... but like Rolling Stones loose”
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,303
    I have to tell you, it’s getting harder and harder to be a proud Albertan. I’m sick of all the constant whining about how we paid so much in transfer payments and now we are struggling.  The only people struggling are the ones who pissed, coked or spent away everything they made. By spent I mean a 3/4 tonne pickup, 27’ toy trailer, pair of quads, house bigger than their needs and in some cases a boat. House sales are up 16% in Calgary alone year over year.  How are we “struggling”? Why do we continue to espouse this narrative to the rest of the country? To get some pipelines built... yeah. It’s a lie folks. It isn’t that bad here. Still building houses and condos. Lots of them.

    Politically, I am embarrassed by our provincial government’s response to Greta Thunberg’s visit this week (not even mentioning the deadbeats on social media).  Telling her to “go visit Russia, Saudi’s Arabia, Iran” was straight out bully tactics. This is a 16 year-old! 

    That’s really just the tip of the iceberg on my venting. But I guess I’m just hoping my fellow Canadian Jammers don’t lump us all together.  Not all Albertans are as depicted by the media.  I’ve changed a lot in the past five years, mostly by educating myself and rediscovering the kind, thoughtful, caring side of myself that I allowed to be overrun with fables of how “Ontario doesn’t care” and “those hippies in BC are fucking us over”. I apologize for offending anyone in the past and I am so happy that insecure, self-absorbed person of the past is gone. 

    I’m not even talking about the morons who want “Wexit” and wear those idiotic “Make Alberta Great Again” hats.  Change is coming fast and I am on the train! To Greta I say “Welcome!”  


     


    Do you think Albertans are the only ones that go nuts spending when times are good?  The same happens here in the manufacturing heartland of Southern Ontario.  I wish we had a premier in Ontario who would have fought tooth and nail against free trade which has gutted our manufacturing...and equalization is long overdue to be either overhauled or scrapped.  I prefer it to be scrapped altogether.  Time to cut Quebec loose financially...

    And diversifying economies are easier said than done...






  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,303


    Yup.  This proves Alberta made the right decision by tossing this twit to the curb.  She is supporting the federal NDP even though he wants to shut down the tar sands and kill the pipeline.  Yup.  She really supports Albertans.  Suckers.
  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Calgary ABPosts: 1,345
    I have to tell you, it’s getting harder and harder to be a proud Albertan. I’m sick of all the constant whining about how we paid so much in transfer payments and now we are struggling.  The only people struggling are the ones who pissed, coked or spent away everything they made. By spent I mean a 3/4 tonne pickup, 27’ toy trailer, pair of quads, house bigger than their needs and in some cases a boat. House sales are up 16% in Calgary alone year over year.  How are we “struggling”? Why do we continue to espouse this narrative to the rest of the country? To get some pipelines built... yeah. It’s a lie folks. It isn’t that bad here. Still building houses and condos. Lots of them.

    Politically, I am embarrassed by our provincial government’s response to Greta Thunberg’s visit this week (not even mentioning the deadbeats on social media).  Telling her to “go visit Russia, Saudi’s Arabia, Iran” was straight out bully tactics. This is a 16 year-old! 

    That’s really just the tip of the iceberg on my venting. But I guess I’m just hoping my fellow Canadian Jammers don’t lump us all together.  Not all Albertans are as depicted by the media.  I’ve changed a lot in the past five years, mostly by educating myself and rediscovering the kind, thoughtful, caring side of myself that I allowed to be overrun with fables of how “Ontario doesn’t care” and “those hippies in BC are fucking us over”. I apologize for offending anyone in the past and I am so happy that insecure, self-absorbed person of the past is gone. 

    I’m not even talking about the morons who want “Wexit” and wear those idiotic “Make Alberta Great Again” hats.  Change is coming fast and I am on the train! To Greta I say “Welcome!”  


     


    Do you think Albertans are the only ones that go nuts spending when times are good?  The same happens here in the manufacturing heartland of Southern Ontario.  I wish we had a premier in Ontario who would have fought tooth and nail against free trade which has gutted our manufacturing...and equalization is long overdue to be either overhauled or scrapped.  I prefer it to be scrapped altogether.  Time to cut Quebec loose financially...

    And diversifying economies are easier said than done...






    Your comment infers a possible lack of understanding in how equalization transfer payments work (or just a simple bias of hatred towards Quebecers). The federal government can’t “cut Quebec loose” from receiving federal taxes to pay for provincially funded services.  Basically, Canadians pay taxes and they are distributed equally to all Canadians to ensure all have access to the same social programs which ensures all Canadians maintain the same standard of living. The statistics are lagging of course so it can take a few years for money to be redistributed.  Perhaps some improvements can be made in adjusting the lagging indicators to adjust the payments quicker, but that just downloads more pressure on provincial and subsequently municipal governments to “adjust on the fly”.  

    As for your first question... I assume Albertans aren’t the only ones, but it is the province where I live so I spoke from a place of knowledge.
    Point was... despite historical evidence to the contrary, people pissed away the boom years thinking it would never end. Same people wanted the provincial government to put money in the “rainy day fund” but didn’t save a dime themselves and in fact came out of the boom in debt.  So did the provincial government by the way, Conservative governments. 

    Now they whine about the bad economy (which isn’t that bad).  That’s what is embarrassing for a province that is supposed to “roll up their sleeves and gitter done and we want the government out of our shit”.  If you are blaming the government for the economic problem you are barking up the wrong tree
    “We’re keepin it loose, maybe not Grateful Dead loose... but like Rolling Stones loose”
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,484
    Good morning everybody. Time to get out and vote, if you haven’t already.

    Should be an interesting result. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,497
    I find it crazy that one party can get more seats and the incumbent PM can still "get the first crack" at forming government. 
    12/29/19
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,181
    Happy(?) Election Day everyone, I hope everyone is able to vote successfully regardless which way you vote! I had to vote in the advance polls since I’m away from home and was surprised how full the ballot box was.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,181
    I find it crazy that one party can get more seats and the incumbent PM can still "get the first crack" at forming government. 
    I’m hoping that if a Conservative minority is elected the GG will give them first crack at governing, but I’m not so sure she will. Personally I’m a fan of minority governments as they (sometimes) lead to more of a consensus than majorities.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,573
    edited October 21
    I find it crazy that one party can get more seats and the incumbent PM can still "get the first crack" at forming government. 
    I think in a minority result all parties should be able to try and form a combined majority gov. Majority wins, voters win. I like it.

    ABC
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,497
    dignin said:
    I find it crazy that one party can get more seats and the incumbent PM can still "get the first crack" at forming government. 
    I think in a minority result all parties should be able to try and form a combined majority gov. Majority wins, voters win. I like it.

    ABC
    with who at the helm?
    12/29/19
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,573
    edited October 21
    dignin said:
    I find it crazy that one party can get more seats and the incumbent PM can still "get the first crack" at forming government. 
    I think in a minority result all parties should be able to try and form a combined majority gov. Majority wins, voters win. I like it.

    ABC
    with who at the helm?
    Whoever the leader is with the most seats in that coalition. With possibly some cabinet members from the other parties. A nice more representative democratic solution. It is done in a lot of other democracies. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,882
    edited October 21
    I think a Liberal/NDP coalition government would be fantastic. For me, that is ideal. Fingers crossed! We have an NDP/Green coalition in BC, and it's the best provincial government of my lifetime, IMO obviously. I think it could work just as well on the national level.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,573
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think a Liberal/NDP coalition government would be fantastic. For me, that is ideal. Fingers crossed! We have an NDP/Green coalition in BC, and it's the best provincial government of my lifetime, IMO obviously. I think it could work just as well on the national level.
    I'm with you. I wanted a Liberal/NDP coalition last go around. Maybe we would have some kind of PR system if that came to pass.
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,181
    If the Conservatives are handed a minority mandate, how or why can/should that be denied in favour of a coalition that has no mandate from the people? Seriously, in this scenario, why shouldn’t the CPC be given a chance to govern as, under our system they would be most representative of the voting population’s desires? If the other parties choose to simply be obstructionist and defeat a minority CPC government that speaks volumes about their supposed tolerance, in my opinion.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,882
    edited October 21
    If the Conservatives are handed a minority mandate, how or why can/should that be denied in favour of a coalition that has no mandate from the people? Seriously, in this scenario, why shouldn’t the CPC be given a chance to govern as, under our system they would be most representative of the voting population’s desires? If the other parties choose to simply be obstructionist and defeat a minority CPC government that speaks volumes about their supposed tolerance, in my opinion.
    Because a coalition would represent the majority of Canadian voters better? Canadian election law does allow for this to be done, so I'm not sure why Cons are suddenly trying to make it seem like there is something "off" about this possibility. I don't understand how they figure having the leader of the party who the minority of people voted for should necessarily be the leader, especially when this coalition has essentially been "put on the table" before the election. A coalition would in fact be the more democratic option than a Conservative minority government. In a country where progressives are split between 3 parties, while the entire right is lumped into only 1 party (PPC doesn't count), a coalition definitely seems like a very logical step to take. And it's a HELL of a lot better than 4 years of obstruction. I have no clue why you would prefer that scenario. Nothing would get done.
    Of course one has to acknowledge what a difficult pill that would be for Conservative voters to swallow.... But that is the way the cookie crumbles I figure, when the entire right only has one valid party. If they want to avoid this in the future, they should get more centrist and more right-leaning parties (that aren't insane) playing the game. Maybe then those could consider coalitions. Parties representing the majority of voters should lead, or we want to get as close to that as possible. Coalitions are a pretty good way to get closer to that.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,181
    PJ_Soul said:
    If the Conservatives are handed a minority mandate, how or why can/should that be denied in favour of a coalition that has no mandate from the people? Seriously, in this scenario, why shouldn’t the CPC be given a chance to govern as, under our system they would be most representative of the voting population’s desires? If the other parties choose to simply be obstructionist and defeat a minority CPC government that speaks volumes about their supposed tolerance, in my opinion.
    Because a coalition would represent the majority of Canadian voters better? Canadian election law does allow for this to be done, so I'm not sure why Cons are suddenly trying to make it seem like there is something "off" about this possibility. I don't understand how they figure having the leader of the party who the minority of people voted for should necessarily be the leader, especially when this coalition has essentially been "put on the table" before the election. A coalition would in fact be the more democratic option than a Conservative minority government. In a country where progressives are split between 3 parties, while the entire right is lumped into only 1 party (PPC doesn't count), a coalition definitely seems like a very logical step to take. And it's a HELL of a lot better than 4 years of obstruction. I have no clue why you would prefer that scenario. Nothing would get done.
    Except our system isn’t representative of the popular vote (which I think is what you’re getting at), as evidenced by the vote breakdown in the last few elections at least. There’s no reason to believe a CPC minority couldn’t be an effective government, except for other parties saying they refuse to cooperate in that situation without seeing a single piece of legislation.

    As for the obstruction I mentioned, I probably wasn’t clear enough, sorry. What I was envisioning was the other parties blocking every piece of legislation, leading to the defeat of the government at the first confidence vote (likely the budget), so I’d be surprised to see a full four years of such.

    All I’m asking for is to give the CPC a chance (as I tried, even worked to give Trudeau a chance), and if they fall let the coalition take over and the voters will eventually judge all parties in the next election.

    After all, Harper successfully negotiated 2 minorities before his majority (prorogue notwithstanding, lol).
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,497
    i'd rather not give scheer any chance whatsoever. 
    12/29/19
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