He has some legitimate points, but his passages 'seem' to reflect disdain for resource management in an era when resource management should be of paramount concern.
really!? what legitimate points does he have?
The hypocrisy.
My university roommate said one of the greatest things ever said: the only true environmentalists are the Amish- they talk the talk, but they walk the walk.
Treehuggers driving their Volkswagon vans and wearing their leather Birkenstocks up to the rainforest was hypocrisy to some degree.
k, well that I disagree with.
is it hypocritical to smoke weed and drink alcohol but be against hard drugs? nope. it's all about setting limits and balance. it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.
Right, exactly.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
He has some legitimate points, but his passages 'seem' to reflect disdain for resource management in an era when resource management should be of paramount concern.
really!? what legitimate points does he have?
The hypocrisy.
My university roommate said one of the greatest things ever said: the only true environmentalists are the Amish- they talk the talk, but they walk the walk.
Treehuggers driving their Volkswagon vans and wearing their leather Birkenstocks up to the rainforest was hypocrisy to some degree.
oh dear ...
the hypocrisy excuse is the lazy person's response to issues they don't want to address ...
i keep saying it on this board ... i could drive a hummer and leave the engine on all night while pumping AC through my open windows and it still doesn't take away from the fact that global warming is causing mass suffering and we are responsible ...
it's the easy way out so someone doesn't actually have to address any issues ...
I said he had made some legitimate points. He has spoken to the fact that we are all consumers and contribute to the environmental problems we experience- we create the demand.
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
I said he had made some legitimate points. He has spoken to the fact that we are all consumers and contribute to the environmental problems we experience- we create the demand.
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
I agree we all need to be conscious of our own contributions, both positive and negative. Absolutely. I think where the problem came in is when you called people hypocritical the way you did, that's all. Mostly because it has no real meaning in this context. Not realistically. It's not like everyone living like the Amish is an option.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I said he had made some legitimate points. He has spoken to the fact that we are all consumers and contribute to the environmental problems we experience- we create the demand.
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
I agree we all need to be conscious of our own contributions, both positive and negative. Absolutely. I think where the problem came in is when you called people hypocritical the way you did, that's all. Mostly because it has no real meaning in this context. Not realistically. It's not like everyone living like the Amish is an option.
I said he had made some legitimate points. He has spoken to the fact that we are all consumers and contribute to the environmental problems we experience- we create the demand.
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
I agree we all need to be conscious of our own contributions, both positive and negative. Absolutely. I think where the problem came in is when you called people hypocritical the way you did, that's all. Mostly because it has no real meaning in this context. Not realistically. It's not like everyone living like the Amish is an option.
Are you serious?
Geezuz, man. I never called anybody anything.
I stated that Unthought made some legitimate points regarding our collective hypocrisy. Then I also stated (basically despite our dependence on the earth's resources) that we need to make concerted efforts to manage our resources, consumption levels, and impact on the environment.
I used the expression my roommate used to illustrate the fact that we are all guilty of contributing to the problem we all lament.
I'm not Amish and my ecological footprint is too big for one person. Am I going to do anything about it? Not significant enough I'm afraid. Can you be honest?
I said he had made some legitimate points. He has spoken to the fact that we are all consumers and contribute to the environmental problems we experience- we create the demand.
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
I agree we all need to be conscious of our own contributions, both positive and negative. Absolutely. I think where the problem came in is when you called people hypocritical the way you did, that's all. Mostly because it has no real meaning in this context. Not realistically. It's not like everyone living like the Amish is an option.
Are you serious?
Geezuz, man. I never called anybody anything.
I stated that Unthought made some legitimate points regarding our collective hypocrisy. Then I also stated (basically despite our dependence on the earth's resources) that we need to make concerted efforts to manage our resources, consumption levels, and impact on the environment.
I used the expression my roommate used to illustrate the fact that we are all guilty of contributing to the problem we all lament.
I'm not Amish and my ecological footprint is too big for one person. Am I going to do anything about it? Not significant enough I'm afraid. Can you be honest?
Yeah, that's what I meant. I was talking in the context of what you posted (sorry, I took your calling them legit points as agreement... that's not the case?).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I said he had made some legitimate points. He has spoken to the fact that we are all consumers and contribute to the environmental problems we experience- we create the demand.
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
who isn't taking ownership? ... everyone here uses "we" in discussing the issues ... he wants to dismiss the points by pointing to hypocrisy ... that's just lazy ...
not sure how using the hypocrisy excuse is a legitimate point ... nor the fact we are all complicit ...
they are just meant to detract and not contribute to any discussion ...
I said he had made some legitimate points. He has spoken to the fact that we are all consumers and contribute to the environmental problems we experience- we create the demand.
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
who isn't taking ownership? ... everyone here uses "we" in discussing the issues ... he wants to dismiss the points by pointing to hypocrisy ... that's just lazy ...
not sure how using the hypocrisy excuse is a legitimate point ... nor the fact we are all complicit ...
they are just meant to detract and not contribute to any discussion ...
His point- which has been well served- was don't throw stones when you live in glass houses. It bears some legitimacy in my mind whether you care to admit it or not.
Now to his point... he lost the impact he might have gained had he not brushed off what is critical in these types of discussions: it cannot just be carte blanche on the planet and its resources because "meh... we all want this shit soooo whatareyagonnado?"
Managing our activities to do as little harm as possible is without question the prudent thing to do. You don't have to be intelligent to understand this simple truth (and no... I'm not calling anyone dumb here).
I said he had made some legitimate points. He has spoken to the fact that we are all consumers and contribute to the environmental problems we experience- we create the demand.
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
who isn't taking ownership? ... everyone here uses "we" in discussing the issues ... he wants to dismiss the points by pointing to hypocrisy ... that's just lazy ...
not sure how using the hypocrisy excuse is a legitimate point ... nor the fact we are all complicit ...
they are just meant to detract and not contribute to any discussion ...
His point- which has been well served- was don't throw stones when you live in glass houses. It bears some legitimacy in my mind whether you care to admit it or not.
Now to his point... he lost the impact he might have gained had he not brushed off what is critical in these types of discussions: it cannot just be carte blanche on the planet and its resources because "meh... we all want this shit soooo whatareyagonnado?"
Managing our activities to do as little harm as possible is without question the prudent thing to do. You don't have to be intelligent to understand this simple truth (and no... I'm not calling anyone dumb here).
no one here is saying we couldn't all contribute more. but does that mean we should have the discussion on HOW we should all improve, to increase our collective knowledge on how to better serve our home? of course not. so saying he has a legitimate gripe about hypocrisy is off base, to say the least.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I think the hypocrisy is part of such a discussion as well though. We can all acknowledge the need for reform. Shouldn't we acknowledge the fact that at times- many times at that- our actions do not reconcile with our words?
We're quick to jump on, oh... say oil spills... and shame oil companies, but who were they bringing the oil to? Our consumption patterns dictate the demand on resources. We all share responsibility for these items we bemoan.
With that said... and again... it's important to have these discussions and we need to try and figure out a better way; not looking in the mirror, however, does little to advance the cause.
I think the hypocrisy is part of such a discussion as well though. We can all acknowledge the need for reform. Shouldn't we acknowledge the fact that at times- many times at that- our actions do not reconcile with our words?
We're quick to jump on, oh... say oil spills... and shame oil companies, but who were they bringing the oil to? Our consumption patterns dictate the demand on resources. We all share responsibility for these items we bemoan.
With that said... and again... it's important to have these discussions and we need to try and figure out a better way; not looking in the mirror, however, does little to advance the cause.
That's a fair assessment.
Since we as a collective can't seem to get our shit together how does everyone feel about government legislating us to be more environmentally conscious? I guess in the form of penalties.
I'm going to guess the more politically conservative members would be against that...you know, more legislation.
I think the hypocrisy is part of such a discussion as well though. We can all acknowledge the need for reform. Shouldn't we acknowledge the fact that at times- many times at that- our actions do not reconcile with our words?
We're quick to jump on, oh... say oil spills... and shame oil companies, but who were they bringing the oil to? Our consumption patterns dictate the demand on resources. We all share responsibility for these items we bemoan.
With that said... and again... it's important to have these discussions and we need to try and figure out a better way; not looking in the mirror, however, does little to advance the cause.
That's a fair assessment.
Since we as a collective can't seem to get our shit together how does everyone feel about government legislating us to be more environmentally conscious? I guess in the form of penalties.
I'm going to guess the more politically conservative members would be against that...you know, more legislation.
Our government is already starting to do that. I.e. penalties for disposing of chemicals or car oil improperly, penalties now (in greater Vancouver, anyway) for putting food scraps in the trash, etc. However, government can't be trusted as far as that goes once you get into the realm of natural resources, because $$$$$ is #1. They do shit like AirCare and raise gas taxes and shit, but that is simply another money grab IMO. I have never met anyone who actually got rid of their car because gas taxes went up. I know ONE person who has switched to a hybrid (what would really help would be for hybrids and electric cars to be way more affordable, even if the government has to subsidize it. They'd also have to really get going on more charging stations all over the place, including in the middle of nowhere on highways).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think the hypocrisy is part of such a discussion as well though. We can all acknowledge the need for reform. Shouldn't we acknowledge the fact that at times- many times at that- our actions do not reconcile with our words?
We're quick to jump on, oh... say oil spills... and shame oil companies, but who were they bringing the oil to? Our consumption patterns dictate the demand on resources. We all share responsibility for these items we bemoan.
With that said... and again... it's important to have these discussions and we need to try and figure out a better way; not looking in the mirror, however, does little to advance the cause.
I feel I do some of what I can in order to live in the current social climate we do. Is there more we can do? obviously. we all recognize that. but labelling it "hypocrisy" is a bit harsh. we need our elected leaders to make good on what they say they are going to do that got them elected; use tax money for environmentally sustainable initiatives. is it all up to government? of course not. but it makes it difficult to ride my bike to work if there are no bike lanes, for instance. it makes it difficult for people in the suburbs to take the bus to work if they don't have rapid transit to get them to the downtown area, for instance.
but at a base level, a neighbourhood or home level, of course there are things I can do more of. Be a little more dilligent in knowing what I can and can't recycle. I still catch my wife throwing things out that can be recycled. I'm sure there are things that can be that I'm not aware of that end up in a landfill. Last summer, I read an email from David Suzuki something so simple, yet effective: don't use a bag for mowing your lawn. why? it creates less waste, and your lawn actually BENEFITS from the discarded shavings and gives you a thicker lawn. WIN WIN. it's mostly about education. I want to get a rain barrel.
but making a constant and consistent effort to be more environmentally conscious, while not living in a hut and eating berries, does not make me a hypocrite.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I think the hypocrisy is part of such a discussion as well though. We can all acknowledge the need for reform. Shouldn't we acknowledge the fact that at times- many times at that- our actions do not reconcile with our words?
We're quick to jump on, oh... say oil spills... and shame oil companies, but who were they bringing the oil to? Our consumption patterns dictate the demand on resources. We all share responsibility for these items we bemoan.
With that said... and again... it's important to have these discussions and we need to try and figure out a better way; not looking in the mirror, however, does little to advance the cause.
That's a fair assessment.
Since we as a collective can't seem to get our shit together how does everyone feel about government legislating us to be more environmentally conscious? I guess in the form of penalties.
I'm going to guess the more politically conservative members would be against that...you know, more legislation.
dignin, while I'm not Canadian, I'm fiscally conservative and can tell you that our government here in California DID effect legislation to reduce water consumption. And we did. Kicked ass at it, in fact.
And now we're going to get hit with increased water rates. Makes perfect sense, no?
LADWP (not government but a pretty fucking powerful agency here) asked everyone to limit energy use, use appliances at certain hours, etc. And we did. Kicked ass at it, in fact.
And now they are saying they "goofed" on past meter readings and *edit we will have to retro-actively pay. THAT makes perfect sense too, no?
So yeah...I'm more a fan of common sense than poor-planning and/or greedy idiots dictating my life - on those two fronts among others, for sure.
We have a garden and grow many of our own vegetables. We recycle diligently. We are conscientious of electrical usage and unnecessary trips with the vehicles. I could go on, but I won't. As I mentioned, despite all this, my ecological footprint is brutal.
So, I'll do what I can and encourage others to do the same, but until the day comes where I change my lifestyle in meaningful fashion... I can't be the one to hop up on a soapbox and tout the environment. I'm doing more harm than good.
We have a garden and grow many of our own vegetables. We recycle diligently. We are conscientious of electrical usage and unnecessary trips with the vehicles. I could go on, but I won't. As I mentioned, despite all this, my ecological footprint is brutal.
So, I'll do what I can and encourage others to do the same, but until the day comes where I change my lifestyle in meaningful fashion... I can't be the one to hop up on a soapbox and tout the environment. I'm doing more harm than good.
I actually think that is irresponsible of you in a way, since you care about the subject. People need to speak out about the environment every chance they get no matter what their private habits are, because talking about it is what gets other people doing it. I understand what you mean here, but I think it's definitely a throwing the baby out with the bathwater kind of idea. If everyone thought the way you are, we'd hardly ever hear about taking care of the environment at all! If you're worried about being a hypocrite, don't. If you get on a soapbox and tout growing your own food, recycling, being conscientious of electrical usage and unnecessary trips with the vehicles, and whatever else you actually pay at least some attention to, that would be a noble thing to be up on a soapbox about.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I appreciate you actually considered my point of view thirty.
I consider the environment in everything I do. I'm from the mountains people! I've come face to face with a grizzly and a cougar and those are still the most exhilarating moments of my life
Fact is, thirty makes a good point. No one is all right and no one is all wrong. I once did a ten minute radio documentary in journalism school about a very controversial new mine which opened in the Rockies near the Jasper National Park about 23 years ago. I talked to the government, the publicist of the mining company, an environmentalist group. And all of them seemed to have skin in the game somehow or another. After about seven interviews I decided to contact a University of Alberta Economics professor (wish I could remember his name). He said something to me I'll never forget after we discussed what some of the other experts had said:
"Young man listen. We have resources and we must harvest them. They are a gift. But the thing is, we must harvest them in a responsible manner." Made perfect sense to me.
I have worked in coal, oilsands, pipeline, high voltage electricity. They work hard so all of us can enjoy the products and benefits which come from these resources. The astronomical progress made in technology is due to the exploitation of these resources. Your quality of life is owed to science which exploits resources.
People who work in these industries would like the enviro-left to give them a little credit for how far they have come. In my working lifetime, the focus on the environment has increased exponentially. The company who employs me now, the environment is number 2 in everything we do, right behind the safety of our people.
I appreciate that people care about our planet. When I am on a mountain top in Kananaskis or Waterton or Banff and I am in awe of the power of nature. I am also thankful that advances in technology allow me: A) the freedom to get there (truck) great footwear to climb in C) the fuel,I put in the truck to drive there D) the plastic water bottle to hydrate
And on and on and on. Can industry improve? You bet! Can't everyone? But I am telling you, pipeline is the latest "thing" from the cause people. Five years ago it was tailings ponds. No one talks about those anymore!
I said he had made some legitimate points. He has spoken to the fact that we are all consumers and contribute to the environmental problems we experience- we create the demand.
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
I agree we all need to be conscious of our own contributions, both positive and negative. Absolutely. I think where the problem came in is when you called people hypocritical the way you did, that's all. Mostly because it has no real meaning in this context. Not realistically. It's not like everyone living like the Amish is an option.
We have a garden and grow many of our own vegetables. We recycle diligently. We are conscientious of electrical usage and unnecessary trips with the vehicles. I could go on, but I won't. As I mentioned, despite all this, my ecological footprint is brutal.
So, I'll do what I can and encourage others to do the same, but until the day comes where I change my lifestyle in meaningful fashion... I can't be the one to hop up on a soapbox and tout the environment. I'm doing more harm than good.
well I don't think anyone here is on a soapbox, just encouraging others as you say you do for ALL OF US to do our part.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I appreciate you actually considered my point of view thirty.
I consider the environment in everything I do. I'm from the mountains people! I've come face to face with a grizzly and a cougar and those are still the most exhilarating moments of my life
Fact is, thirty makes a good point. No one is all right and no one is all wrong. I once did a ten minute radio documentary in journalism school about a very controversial new mine which opened in the Rockies near the Jasper National Park about 23 years ago. I talked to the government, the publicist of the mining company, an environmentalist group. And all of them seemed to have skin in the game somehow or another. After about seven interviews I decided to contact a University of Alberta Economics professor (wish I could remember his name). He said something to me I'll never forget after we discussed what some of the other experts had said:
"Young man listen. We have resources and we must harvest them. They are a gift. But the thing is, we must harvest them in a responsible manner." Made perfect sense to me.
I have worked in coal, oilsands, pipeline, high voltage electricity. They work hard so all of us can enjoy the products and benefits which come from these resources. The astronomical progress made in technology is due to the exploitation of these resources. Your quality of life is owed to science which exploits resources.
People who work in these industries would like the enviro-left to give them a little credit for how far they have come. In my working lifetime, the focus on the environment has increased exponentially. The company who employs me now, the environment is number 2 in everything we do, right behind the safety of our people.
I appreciate that people care about our planet. When I am on a mountain top in Kananaskis or Waterton or Banff and I am in awe of the power of nature. I am also thankful that advances in technology allow me: A) the freedom to get there (truck) great footwear to climb in C) the fuel,I put in the truck to drive there D) the plastic water bottle to hydrate
And on and on and on. Can industry improve? You bet! Can't everyone? But I am telling you, pipeline is the latest "thing" from the cause people. Five years ago it was tailings ponds. No one talks about those anymore!
of course thoses who work in those industries deserve credit. Of course I appreciate the amenities that I currently enjoy. However, we have to recognize those amenities that are causing our world harm and do something about them.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
if hypocrisy is a legitimate means of dismissing issues ...
by the year 2050 - there will be more plastic in oceans than fish ... think about that while we worry about our "need" for oil ...
Think about that while you're pounding a water or pop on a road trip.
You can insert another word if you wish, but keep in mind your contributions to the growing problem while you advocate for a better way.
why bother having an opinion on anything in this world if we can use that as an excuse for ignorance?
feel free to not express a concern ever again because i can guarantee you there will be hypocrisy in your statement
sad
I do express concerns for our future. And when I do... there is a level of hypocrisy there.
I'm realistic. Would you prefer me to say, "Yah! F**k oil, man! F**k it good!" And then proceed to fly to Hawaii for the 6th time in the last 5 years and renew my golf membership?
"My friend says we're like the dinosaurs only we are doing ourselves in much faster than they ever did."
Here's a thought- and it's not well formulated nor necessarily what I believe:
We tend to think of ourselves as the height of the universe, but maybe we are not. Maybe, we were preordained to do exactly what we are doing: modest beginnings, swelling to epidemic proportions, and, finally, expiring as a result of our activities (just like the dinosaurs did)- lending way to the next form of life.
What are we trying to do exactly? Are we trying to slow down the rate of consumption so that we can squeeze out a few extra generations at the end of it all? Or are we trying to find a balance so that mankind can sustain itself for eternity? If it is scenario 2... we have a lot of work to do and I'm not doing my part. If people here have made the changes in their lifestyle to contribute to scenario 2... I salute you. Well done- seriously.
if hypocrisy is a legitimate means of dismissing issues ...
by the year 2050 - there will be more plastic in oceans than fish ... think about that while we worry about our "need" for oil ...
Think about that while you're pounding a water or pop on a road trip.
You can insert another word if you wish, but keep in mind your contributions to the growing problem while you advocate for a better way.
why bother having an opinion on anything in this world if we can use that as an excuse for ignorance?
feel free to not express a concern ever again because i can guarantee you there will be hypocrisy in your statement
sad
I do express concerns for our future. And when I do... there is a level of hypocrisy there.
I'm realistic. Would you prefer me to say, "Yah! F**k oil, man! F**k it good!" And then proceed to fly to Hawaii for the 6th time in the last 5 years and renew my golf membership?
again, I disagree. I think you can move towards a viable solution while doing your best to live within the confines of the current system, as much as it is wrought with failures.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Comments
the hypocrisy excuse is the lazy person's response to issues they don't want to address ...
i keep saying it on this board ... i could drive a hummer and leave the engine on all night while pumping AC through my open windows and it still doesn't take away from the fact that global warming is causing mass suffering and we are responsible ...
it's the easy way out so someone doesn't actually have to address any issues ...
I also said he has seemed to scoff at resource management and environmental concerns which are items that should not be brushed aside.
This is the reality that seems to be ignored here: we are all part of the problem to varying degrees. I'm not saying we shove our heads up our asses and ignore the looming global meltdown, but let's also not ignore our complicity in the situation either.
Minus the breeding levels lol
Geezuz, man. I never called anybody anything.
I stated that Unthought made some legitimate points regarding our collective hypocrisy. Then I also stated (basically despite our dependence on the earth's resources) that we need to make concerted efforts to manage our resources, consumption levels, and impact on the environment.
I used the expression my roommate used to illustrate the fact that we are all guilty of contributing to the problem we all lament.
I'm not Amish and my ecological footprint is too big for one person. Am I going to do anything about it? Not significant enough I'm afraid. Can you be honest?
not sure how using the hypocrisy excuse is a legitimate point ... nor the fact we are all complicit ...
they are just meant to detract and not contribute to any discussion ...
Now to his point... he lost the impact he might have gained had he not brushed off what is critical in these types of discussions: it cannot just be carte blanche on the planet and its resources because "meh... we all want this shit soooo whatareyagonnado?"
Managing our activities to do as little harm as possible is without question the prudent thing to do. You don't have to be intelligent to understand this simple truth (and no... I'm not calling anyone dumb here).
-EV 8/14/93
We're quick to jump on, oh... say oil spills... and shame oil companies, but who were they bringing the oil to? Our consumption patterns dictate the demand on resources. We all share responsibility for these items we bemoan.
With that said... and again... it's important to have these discussions and we need to try and figure out a better way; not looking in the mirror, however, does little to advance the cause.
Since we as a collective can't seem to get our shit together how does everyone feel about government legislating us to be more environmentally conscious? I guess in the form of penalties.
I'm going to guess the more politically conservative members would be against that...you know, more legislation.
but at a base level, a neighbourhood or home level, of course there are things I can do more of. Be a little more dilligent in knowing what I can and can't recycle. I still catch my wife throwing things out that can be recycled. I'm sure there are things that can be that I'm not aware of that end up in a landfill. Last summer, I read an email from David Suzuki something so simple, yet effective: don't use a bag for mowing your lawn. why? it creates less waste, and your lawn actually BENEFITS from the discarded shavings and gives you a thicker lawn. WIN WIN. it's mostly about education. I want to get a rain barrel.
but making a constant and consistent effort to be more environmentally conscious, while not living in a hut and eating berries, does not make me a hypocrite.
-EV 8/14/93
And now we're going to get hit with increased water rates. Makes perfect sense, no?
LADWP (not government but a pretty fucking powerful agency here) asked everyone to limit energy use, use appliances at certain hours, etc. And we did. Kicked ass at it, in fact.
And now they are saying they "goofed" on past meter readings and *edit we will have to retro-actively pay. THAT makes perfect sense too, no?
So yeah...I'm more a fan of common sense than poor-planning and/or greedy idiots dictating my life - on those two fronts among others, for sure.
So, I'll do what I can and encourage others to do the same, but until the day comes where I change my lifestyle in meaningful fashion... I can't be the one to hop up on a soapbox and tout the environment. I'm doing more harm than good.
30billspaid I am blown away
I consider the environment in everything I do. I'm from the mountains people!
Fact is, thirty makes a good point. No one is all right and no one is all wrong. I once did a ten minute radio documentary in journalism school about a very controversial new mine which opened in the Rockies near the Jasper National Park about 23 years ago.
I talked to the government, the publicist of the mining company, an environmentalist group. And all of them seemed to have skin in the game somehow or another. After about seven interviews I decided to contact a University of Alberta Economics professor (wish I could remember his name).
He said something to me I'll never forget after we discussed what some of the other experts had said:
"Young man listen. We have resources and we must harvest them. They are a gift. But the thing is, we must harvest them in a responsible manner." Made perfect sense to me.
I have worked in coal, oilsands, pipeline, high voltage electricity. They work hard so all of us can enjoy the products and benefits which come from these resources. The astronomical progress made in technology is due to the exploitation of these resources. Your quality of life is owed to science which exploits resources.
People who work in these industries would like the enviro-left to give them a little credit for how far they have come. In my working lifetime, the focus on the environment has increased exponentially. The company who employs me now, the environment is number 2 in everything we do, right behind the safety of our people.
I appreciate that people care about our planet. When I am on a mountain top in Kananaskis or Waterton or Banff and I am in awe of the power of nature. I am also thankful that advances in technology allow me:
A) the freedom to get there (truck)
C) the fuel,I put in the truck to drive there
D) the plastic water bottle to hydrate
And on and on and on. Can industry improve? You bet! Can't everyone? But I am telling you, pipeline is the latest "thing" from the cause people. Five years ago it was tailings ponds. No one talks about those anymore!
Don't be. We might have been at each other's throats a while back, but we're not terribly far apart at the moment.
well I don't think anyone here is on a soapbox, just encouraging others as you say you do for ALL OF US to do our part.
-EV 8/14/93
if hypocrisy is a legitimate means of dismissing issues ...
by the year 2050 - there will be more plastic in oceans than fish ... think about that while we worry about our "need" for oil ...
-EV 8/14/93
http://www.triplepundit.com/2016/01/official-solar-employs-people-oil-gas/?platform=hootsuite&utm_content=buffer49a31&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
You can insert another word if you wish, but keep in mind your contributions to the growing problem while you advocate for a better way.
feel free to not express a concern ever again because i can guarantee you there will be hypocrisy in your statement
sad
I'm realistic. Would you prefer me to say, "Yah! F**k oil, man! F**k it good!" And then proceed to fly to Hawaii for the 6th time in the last 5 years and renew my golf membership?
Here's a thought- and it's not well formulated nor necessarily what I believe:
We tend to think of ourselves as the height of the universe, but maybe we are not. Maybe, we were preordained to do exactly what we are doing: modest beginnings, swelling to epidemic proportions, and, finally, expiring as a result of our activities (just like the dinosaurs did)- lending way to the next form of life.
What are we trying to do exactly? Are we trying to slow down the rate of consumption so that we can squeeze out a few extra generations at the end of it all? Or are we trying to find a balance so that mankind can sustain itself for eternity? If it is scenario 2... we have a lot of work to do and I'm not doing my part. If people here have made the changes in their lifestyle to contribute to scenario 2... I salute you. Well done- seriously.
-EV 8/14/93