The real causes of mass shootings?

HughFreakingDillon

as many others have said, yes, it is a multitude of things. I once thought all these violent first-person shooter games were not to blame; now I'm not so sure. the glorification of violence, and to the extent that people play these games, HAS to have something to do with it. it almost transfers over, like their reality becomes their fantasy.

so much social pressure, absolutely. with bullying in person, now bullying online, jesus. there has to be a way to stop it. intensive sensitivity classes? workshops? I don't have the answer.

not one of these people is ever known as a popular person in school. all loners, ,"losers". but I think a good first step, absolutely, is to never identify the shooter in the media. maybe first name and last initial, but no picture. take away the famous end-game portion of it. some of the motivation might be lost.

and yes, access to guns and ammo. it isn't the SOLE issue. it is part of it. unfortunately, when you couple that with American culture, it's a powderkeg.

Gern Blansten

Other countries have video games, crazy people, shitty parents....that's not it folks

ldent42

Gern Blansten said:

Other countries have video games, crazy people, shitty parents....that's not it folks

I dont wanna speak for Hugh but I'm pretty sure he means that it's a combination of all those things on top of our gun availability problem.

PJ_Soul

I love Americans, but as a large group they seem pretty angry and scared. Maybe that has something to do with it.

HughFreakingDillon

ldent42 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Other countries have video games, crazy people, shitty parents....that's not it folks

I dont wanna speak for Hugh but I'm pretty sure he means that it's a combination of all those things on top of our gun availability problem.

correct. I wasn't implying it was one of those factors alone or even that my list was in any way exhaustive. it's a complex issue.

callen

PJ_Soul said:

I love Americans, but as a large group they seem pretty angry and scared. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Been to a pj show in US? Not much anger there. Portions of population. Many peace loving chilled folks.

HughFreakingDillon

yeah, the americans I've met on my limited travels have all been pretty nice and pretty happy.

ldent42

Its the problem I was trying to discuss before - "Americans" as a cultural term is just inaccurate. You take a born & bred American from the NE, the PNW, and the Bible Belt & you've got three people from entirely separate cultures, united by an ignorance of the metric system & not much else. Even language is different in some ways by region.

dignin

Gern Blansten said:

Other countries have video games, crazy people, shitty parents....that's not it folks

Yup. We can talk ourselves in circles about the causes but what we do know that separates the states from other comparative countries is easy access to GUNS, lots of them. No way around it.

It's as simple as that.

HughFreakingDillon

ldent42 said:

Its the problem I was trying to discuss before - "Americans" as a cultural term is just inaccurate. You take a born & bred American from the NE, the PNW, and the Bible Belt & you've got three people from entirely separate cultures, united by an ignorance of the metric system & not much else. Even language is different in some ways by region.

true enough.

HughFreakingDillon

I recently made a comment in a thread on AMT that Americans need to stop worrying so much about terrorism and "shipping them back to where they came from" and closing the boarders to immigrants, and instead worrying about the people in their own backyard. Well, now I have come across proof of this fact, and it is overwhelming:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/index.html


(CNN)—During his presidency, President Barack Obama has had to deliver statements on gun violence 15 times.

After a gunman opened fire at Oregon's Umpqua Community College, killing nine people and injuring seven, a visibly upset Obama said the shootings were becoming all too routine.

The gunman also died, although it's unclear whether he was shot by police or committed suicide.

"The reporting is routine," he said. "My response here at this podium ends up being routine, the conversation in the aftermath of it. We've become numb to this."

He then asked news organizations to tally up the number of Americans killed through terrorist attacks in the last decade and compare it with the number of Americans who have died in gun violence.

Using numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, we found that from 2004 to 2013, 316,545 people died by firearms on U.S. soil. (2013 is the most recent year CDC data for deaths by firearms is available.) This data covered all manners of death, including homicide, accident and suicide.

According to the U.S. State Department, the number of U.S. citizens killed overseas as a result of incidents of terrorism from 2004 to 2013 was 277.

In addition, we compiled all terrorism incidents inside the U.S.* and found that between 2004 and 2013, there were 36 people killed in domestic acts of terrorism. This brings the total to 313.

dignin

HughFreakingDillon said:

I recently made a comment in a thread on AMT that Americans need to stop worrying so much about terrorism and "shipping them back to where they came from" and closing the boarders to immigrants, and instead worrying about the people in their own backyard. Well, now I have come across proof of this fact, and it is overwhelming:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/index.html


(CNN)—During his presidency, President Barack Obama has had to deliver statements on gun violence 15 times.

After a gunman opened fire at Oregon's Umpqua Community College, killing nine people and injuring seven, a visibly upset Obama said the shootings were becoming all too routine.

The gunman also died, although it's unclear whether he was shot by police or committed suicide.

"The reporting is routine," he said. "My response here at this podium ends up being routine, the conversation in the aftermath of it. We've become numb to this."

He then asked news organizations to tally up the number of Americans killed through terrorist attacks in the last decade and compare it with the number of Americans who have died in gun violence.

Using numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, we found that from 2004 to 2013, 316,545 people died by firearms on U.S. soil. (2013 is the most recent year CDC data for deaths by firearms is available.) This data covered all manners of death, including homicide, accident and suicide.

According to the U.S. State Department, the number of U.S. citizens killed overseas as a result of incidents of terrorism from 2004 to 2013 was 277.

In addition, we compiled all terrorism incidents inside the U.S.* and found that between 2004 and 2013, there were 36 people killed in domestic acts of terrorism. This brings the total to 313.

Those numbers are staggering.

brianlux

Good question and interesting discussion all around.

Three things come to mind:
-Somehow curb the media to give people seeking infamy far less attention.
-Make mental health more available and more affordable.
-Make gun purchases more difficult, background checks more thorough.

HughFreakingDillon

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I recently made a comment in a thread on AMT that Americans need to stop worrying so much about terrorism and "shipping them back to where they came from" and closing the boarders to immigrants, and instead worrying about the people in their own backyard. Well, now I have come across proof of this fact, and it is overwhelming:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/index.html


(CNN)—During his presidency, President Barack Obama has had to deliver statements on gun violence 15 times.

After a gunman opened fire at Oregon's Umpqua Community College, killing nine people and injuring seven, a visibly upset Obama said the shootings were becoming all too routine.

The gunman also died, although it's unclear whether he was shot by police or committed suicide.

"The reporting is routine," he said. "My response here at this podium ends up being routine, the conversation in the aftermath of it. We've become numb to this."

He then asked news organizations to tally up the number of Americans killed through terrorist attacks in the last decade and compare it with the number of Americans who have died in gun violence.

Using numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, we found that from 2004 to 2013, 316,545 people died by firearms on U.S. soil. (2013 is the most recent year CDC data for deaths by firearms is available.) This data covered all manners of death, including homicide, accident and suicide.

According to the U.S. State Department, the number of U.S. citizens killed overseas as a result of incidents of terrorism from 2004 to 2013 was 277.

In addition, we compiled all terrorism incidents inside the U.S.* and found that between 2004 and 2013, there were 36 people killed in domestic acts of terrorism. This brings the total to 313.

Those numbers are staggering.

aren't they?

over THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE IN 10 YEARS. that should not be acceptable by any society. that is unbelievable.

it actually is making me pretty angry right now.

ldent42

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I recently made a comment in a thread on AMT that Americans need to stop worrying so much about terrorism and "shipping them back to where they came from" and closing the boarders to immigrants, and instead worrying about the people in their own backyard. Well, now I have come across proof of this fact, and it is overwhelming:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/index.html


(CNN)—During his presidency, President Barack Obama has had to deliver statements on gun violence 15 times.

After a gunman opened fire at Oregon's Umpqua Community College, killing nine people and injuring seven, a visibly upset Obama said the shootings were becoming all too routine.

The gunman also died, although it's unclear whether he was shot by police or committed suicide.

"The reporting is routine," he said. "My response here at this podium ends up being routine, the conversation in the aftermath of it. We've become numb to this."

He then asked news organizations to tally up the number of Americans killed through terrorist attacks in the last decade and compare it with the number of Americans who have died in gun violence.

Using numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, we found that from 2004 to 2013, 316,545 people died by firearms on U.S. soil. (2013 is the most recent year CDC data for deaths by firearms is available.) This data covered all manners of death, including homicide, accident and suicide.

According to the U.S. State Department, the number of U.S. citizens killed overseas as a result of incidents of terrorism from 2004 to 2013 was 277.

In addition, we compiled all terrorism incidents inside the U.S.* and found that between 2004 and 2013, there were 36 people killed in domestic acts of terrorism. This brings the total to 313.

Those numbers are staggering.

aren't they?

over THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE IN 10 YEARS. that should not be acceptable by any society. that is unbelievable.

it actually is making me pretty angry right now.

The first time I read that I actually missed that figure.
I read something earlier the Australian PM or someone who was in charge when they had their laws passed in the 90s said that the US situation is just too far gone at this point. I kinda wish we could get those guys on our payroll though and see if they can't come up with some solution.

usamamasan1

mcgruff10 said:

I really think the op has hit upon something big. Prior to 1968 you could go to your local hardware store and buy surplus ww2 weapons like bazookas, flame throwers, etc and you didn't hear about any of these crazy massacres. Imagine if those weapons were legal today?
what has changed? to me the recipe for disaster includes: self gratification, social media, the current state of the "news", the number of guns available, depression, all these crazy prescription drugs that are now available, and the opportunity to become "famous". just a crazy ass world we live in. to me, these people are almost like suicide bombers in the middle east. I just can't wrap my head around it.

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brianlux said:

Good question and interesting discussion all around.

Three things come to mind:
-Somehow curb the media to give people seeking infamy far less attention.
-Make mental health more available and more affordable.
-Make gun purchases more difficult, background checks more thorough.

great ideas brian! I'd love to see all three passed.

FoxyRedLa

The Washington Post has an article up right now "shooting in Oregon: so far in 2015, we've had 274 days and 294 mass shootings"

Classifying a mass shooting as 4 or more people are killed or injured by gunfire.

ldent42

another thing since I was just scrolling through FB

so many people are posting or reposting reports of the statistics which very plainly show that more guns = more gun deaths, but there's still incredibly stupid shit popping up like a graph that shows the entire fault is "mentally disturbed people who don't care about laws"

That kind of willful ignorance JUST to be argumentative or contrarian astounds me

PJ_Soul

callen said:

PJ_Soul said:

I love Americans, but as a large group they seem pretty angry and scared. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Been to a pj show in US? Not much anger there. Portions of population. Many peace loving chilled folks.

HughFreakingDillon said:

yeah, the americans I've met on my limited travels have all been pretty nice and pretty happy.

I specifically said as a group. As a mass. I have talked about how much more friendly Americans are than Canadians on a personal level a ton of times. But the angry, nationalistic, paranoid, divisive fervor of Americans en masse and in their media and government is pretty hard to miss too, and that cultural bugaboo may contribute to all the mass killings.