Hillary won more votes for President

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Comments

  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited June 2016
    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    And THAT sort of 'asleep at the wheel' attitude is why the media and the system get away with it, pushing it further and further away from a democratic process every election cycle. Give yourself a pat on the back. NOT.

    Not to mention, you just would rather blast people like me who actually care and call the system out on their shit.
    Post edited by Free on
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    And THAT sort of 'asleep at the wheel' attitude is why the media and the system get away with it, pushing it further and further away from a democratic process every election cycle. Give yourself a pat on the back. NOT.
    Hahaha do you think pissing and moaning about how it is unfair is doing anything?
    The media doesn't effect me, 3 gigs of data/month is the only connection I have to the world outside my farm. They aren't swaying me at all, and the sheep will continue to bah and bleat at their TV's even with your petulant child's attitude flooding the Pearl Jam forum. Come down off your high horse.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    And THAT sort of 'asleep at the wheel' attitude is why the media and the system get away with it, pushing it further and further away from a democratic process every election cycle. Give yourself a pat on the back. NOT.
    Hahaha do you think pissing and moaning about how it is unfair is doing anything?
    The media doesn't effect me, 3 gigs of data/month is the only connection I have to the world outside my farm. They aren't swaying me at all, and the sheep will continue to bah and bleat at their TV's even with your petulant child's attitude flooding the Pearl Jam forum. Come down off your high horse.
    Good god, please. Check yourself!
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 20,286
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    And THAT sort of 'asleep at the wheel' attitude is why the media and the system get away with it, pushing it further and further away from a democratic process every election cycle. Give yourself a pat on the back. NOT.
    Hahaha do you think pissing and moaning about how it is unfair is doing anything?
    The media doesn't effect me, 3 gigs of data/month is the only connection I have to the world outside my farm. They aren't swaying me at all, and the sheep will continue to bah and bleat at their TV's even with your petulant child's attitude flooding the Pearl Jam forum. Come down off your high horse.
    Good god, please. Check yourself!
    Free, if you have a problem with the election process, use your democratic right to free speech and propose something better. Highlighting problems can only take you so far in a reasonable debate; at a certain point, empathy really does run dry when complaints are constant but solutions aren't even put on the table.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • EarlWelshEarlWelsh Posts: 1,118
    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Posts: 17,041
    It's getting served to her on a fucking silver platter. Here's hoping she doesn't fuck it up...
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited June 2016
    benjs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    And THAT sort of 'asleep at the wheel' attitude is why the media and the system get away with it, pushing it further and further away from a democratic process every election cycle. Give yourself a pat on the back. NOT.
    Hahaha do you think pissing and moaning about how it is unfair is doing anything?
    The media doesn't effect me, 3 gigs of data/month is the only connection I have to the world outside my farm. They aren't swaying me at all, and the sheep will continue to bah and bleat at their TV's even with your petulant child's attitude flooding the Pearl Jam forum. Come down off your high horse.
    Good god, please. Check yourself!
    Free, if you have a problem with the election process, use your democratic right to free speech and propose something better. Highlighting problems can only take you so far in a reasonable debate; at a certain point, empathy really does run dry when complaints are constant but solutions aren't even put on the table.
    It's very interesting Benjs. Exactly how do you propose throwing actual solutions on the table when everyone here, including yourself, choose to attack the poster bringing up the electoral corruption problems rather than debate the topic itself? Does "shoot the messenger" have a nice ring to it?

    Have you guys noticed Brian Lux gone, who left for this exact reason? Continually, you guys prefer to let loose on the messenger and NOT actually discuss the topic of election corruption. When we actually have a decent discussion without need to personally attack, that's when solutions can be proposed. But that can't Doesn't happen here.
    Post edited by Free on
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    Thanks for this. I am so glad someone else here can acknowledge it.
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,150
    edited June 2016
    Free said:

    benjs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    And THAT sort of 'asleep at the wheel' attitude is why the media and the system get away with it, pushing it further and further away from a democratic process every election cycle. Give yourself a pat on the back. NOT.
    Hahaha do you think pissing and moaning about how it is unfair is doing anything?
    The media doesn't effect me, 3 gigs of data/month is the only connection I have to the world outside my farm. They aren't swaying me at all, and the sheep will continue to bah and bleat at their TV's even with your petulant child's attitude flooding the Pearl Jam forum. Come down off your high horse.
    Good god, please. Check yourself!
    Free, if you have a problem with the election process, use your democratic right to free speech and propose something better. Highlighting problems can only take you so far in a reasonable debate; at a certain point, empathy really does run dry when complaints are constant but solutions aren't even put on the table.
    It's very interesting Benjs. Exactly how do you propose throwing actual solutions on the table when everyone here, including yourself, choose to attack the poster bringing up the electoral corruption problems rather than debate the topic itself? Does "shoot the messenger" have a nice ring to it?

    Have you guys noticed Brian Lux gone, who left for this exact reason? Continually, you guys prefer to let loose on the messenger and NOT actually discuss the topic of election corruption. When we actually have a decent discussion without need to personally attack, that's when solutions can be proposed. But that can't Doesn't happen here.
    Excuse me? You haven't proposed a single solution. Had you brought up an electoral corruption solution, I'd have happily engaged you in debate - surely sometimes agreeing with you, other times not, and sometimes playing devil's advocate. You are not engaging in reasonable debate when you refuse to read linked statements accurately, be criticized with valid arguments, or provide your own evidence when asked to. And by the way - I'm saying this as a Bernie Sanders supporter...

    And for the record - I've long felt this way about the way debates are held on here: too much focusing on problems, not enough on discussing solutions. I don't think it's just you, and I'm sure I've been guilty of it too.
    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Posts: 17,041
    Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait....Wait. Before we get started here can we put our tin foil hats on first?
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • EarlWelshEarlWelsh Posts: 1,118
    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Free said:

    benjs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    And THAT sort of 'asleep at the wheel' attitude is why the media and the system get away with it, pushing it further and further away from a democratic process every election cycle. Give yourself a pat on the back. NOT.
    Hahaha do you think pissing and moaning about how it is unfair is doing anything?
    The media doesn't effect me, 3 gigs of data/month is the only connection I have to the world outside my farm. They aren't swaying me at all, and the sheep will continue to bah and bleat at their TV's even with your petulant child's attitude flooding the Pearl Jam forum. Come down off your high horse.
    Good god, please. Check yourself!
    Free, if you have a problem with the election process, use your democratic right to free speech and propose something better. Highlighting problems can only take you so far in a reasonable debate; at a certain point, empathy really does run dry when complaints are constant but solutions aren't even put on the table.
    It's very interesting Benjs. Exactly how do you propose throwing actual solutions on the table when everyone here, including yourself, choose to attack the poster bringing up the electoral corruption problems rather than debate the topic itself? Does "shoot the messenger" have a nice ring to it?

    Have you guys noticed Brian Lux gone, who left for this exact reason? Continually, you guys prefer to let loose on the messenger and NOT actually discuss the topic of election corruption. When we actually have a decent discussion without need to personally attack, that's when solutions can be proposed. But that can't Doesn't happen here.
    I don't think anybody but Mr Lux can speak for Brian, but I know he has toyed with the idea of leaving this forum for a long time, for various reasons.
    The man has fought the good fight for decades, sometimes exasperation is part of the cycle, but I don't like the idea of pinning his current absence on a single issue, topic, or group of posters.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,676
    EarlWelsh said:

    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may.
    It's not suppression. No one is stopping them. Could it influence? Sure but you are misusing the word.

    Btw, I support HRC. There's also 13.5 million voters that have done the same.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    benjs said:

    Free said:

    benjs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    And THAT sort of 'asleep at the wheel' attitude is why the media and the system get away with it, pushing it further and further away from a democratic process every election cycle. Give yourself a pat on the back. NOT.
    Hahaha do you think pissing and moaning about how it is unfair is doing anything?
    The media doesn't effect me, 3 gigs of data/month is the only connection I have to the world outside my farm. They aren't swaying me at all, and the sheep will continue to bah and bleat at their TV's even with your petulant child's attitude flooding the Pearl Jam forum. Come down off your high horse.
    Good god, please. Check yourself!
    Free, if you have a problem with the election process, use your democratic right to free speech and propose something better. Highlighting problems can only take you so far in a reasonable debate; at a certain point, empathy really does run dry when complaints are constant but solutions aren't even put on the table.
    It's very interesting Benjs. Exactly how do you propose throwing actual solutions on the table when everyone here, including yourself, choose to attack the poster bringing up the electoral corruption problems rather than debate the topic itself? Does "shoot the messenger" have a nice ring to it?

    Have you guys noticed Brian Lux gone, who left for this exact reason? Continually, you guys prefer to let loose on the messenger and NOT actually discuss the topic of election corruption. When we actually have a decent discussion without need to personally attack, that's when solutions can be proposed. But that can't Doesn't happen here.
    Excuse me? You haven't proposed a single solution. Had you brought up an electoral corruption solution, I'd have happily engaged you in debate - surely sometimes agreeing with you, other times not, and sometimes playing devil's advocate. You are not engaging in reasonable debate when you refuse to read linked statements accurately, be criticized with valid arguments, or provide your own evidence when asked to. And by the way - I'm saying this as a Bernie Sanders supporter...

    And for the record - I've long felt this way about the way debates are held on here: too much focusing on problems, not enough on discussing solutions. I don't think it's just you, and I'm sure I've been guilty of it too.
    Stop the need to shoot the messenger and I would gladly discuss solutions. The ball is in your court.
  • EarlWelshEarlWelsh Posts: 1,118
    mrussel1 said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may.
    It's not suppression. No one is stopping them. Could it influence? Sure but you are misusing the word.

    Btw, I support HRC. There's also 13.5 million voters that have done the same.
    Call it what you may. I call it a form of suppression.

    And, I don't know you, so the fact that you voted for HRC really has nothing to do with my point.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited June 2016
    EarlWelsh said:

    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may
    .
    Post edited by Free on
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,676
    EarlWelsh said:

    mrussel1 said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may.
    It's not suppression. No one is stopping them. Could it influence? Sure but you are misusing the word.

    Btw, I support HRC. There's also 13.5 million voters that have done the same.
    Call it what you may. I call it a form of suppression.

    And, I don't know you, so the fact that you voted for HRC really has nothing to do with my point.
    Just because you call it that doesn't make it so.

    Fair enough, you don't know me. I know lots of HRC supporters. Don't know any Trump or Cruz supporters. None of that is relevant at all.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    EarlWelsh said:

    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may.
    I guess I don't get very fired up about this issue, because it is just the way it goes. Being a West Coast voter, I am often voting when things have already been decided or called on election day. If people choose not to vote because they don't think their vote will matter, that is on them and speaks to their commitment to the process.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,676
    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may.
    I guess I don't get very fired up about this issue, because it is just the way it goes. Being a West Coast voter, I am often voting when things have already been decided or called on election day. If people choose not to vote because they don't think their vote will matter, that is on them and speaks to their commitment to the process.
    Great point. Obama was called by like 10:15 pm est on election in 12, wasn't he? He had the 270. I don't remember anyone yelling suppression.
  • EarlWelshEarlWelsh Posts: 1,118
    edited June 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    mrussel1 said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may.
    It's not suppression. No one is stopping them. Could it influence? Sure but you are misusing the word.

    Btw, I support HRC. There's also 13.5 million voters that have done the same.
    Call it what you may. I call it a form of suppression.

    And, I don't know you, so the fact that you voted for HRC really has nothing to do with my point.
    Just because you call it that doesn't make it so.

    Fair enough, you don't know me. I know lots of HRC supporters. Don't know any Trump or Cruz supporters. None of that is relevant at all.
    I was making an observation based on those in my life whose political viewpoints run the gamut. Interesting to me that none support her. That's all. Wasn't trying to make some grand statement.

    Fuck's sake. I do see why Free, who at times may be passionate to a fault, gets so worked up going back and forth with you.
    Post edited by EarlWelsh on
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,676
    EarlWelsh said:

    mrussel1 said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    mrussel1 said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may.
    It's not suppression. No one is stopping them. Could it influence? Sure but you are misusing the word.

    Btw, I support HRC. There's also 13.5 million voters that have done the same.
    Call it what you may. I call it a form of suppression.

    And, I don't know you, so the fact that you voted for HRC really has nothing to do with my point.
    Just because you call it that doesn't make it so.

    Fair enough, you don't know me. I know lots of HRC supporters. Don't know any Trump or Cruz supporters. None of that is relevant at all.
    I was making an observation based on those in my life whose political viewpoints run the gamut. Interesting to me that none support her. That's all. Wasn't trying to make some grand statement.

    Fuck's sake. I do see why Free, who at times may be passionate to a fault, gets so worked up going back and forth with you.
    I'm more concerned with people throwing around words like fraud, corruption, suppression, etc., when there is no evidence any of that happened. So for fuck's sake, use the English language properly. If people did that, I wouldn't feel the need to argue with them.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited June 2016
    Free said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Comments like these only reach about five Americans, and we already know when super delegates vote. Perhaps you need a different pulpit if you really are intent on educating the unenlightened masses. Do you ever attend meetings at your local Democratic party precinct? I'm sure they're looking for volunteers. You might make a bigger difference there. You seem to be looking to make a difference.
    Attempting to deflect the issue here and getting personal when things don't work in your favor proves nothing and goes nowhere.
    I don't understand why you keep getting defensive when someone suggests that you actually do something with your enthusiasm for Bernie. You take it as an insult for some reason. You did the same with me when I suggested that you volunteer for Bernie's campaign. Why does this offend you??? If anything, it's a compliment to your dedication to a nominee, and you think it's a personal attack. It's kind of bizarre.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • EarlWelshEarlWelsh Posts: 1,118
    edited June 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    mrussel1 said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    mrussel1 said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    jeffbr said:

    EarlWelsh said:

    It's so strange to me that out of everyone I know, there has been at least one supporter of all the major candidates. This includes Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, O'Malley, and even some of the losers in the back. It includes all but one....Clinton.

    AP shouldn't have made that call, however presumptive it may have been, on the eve of such a big primary day. They knew the effect it would have. It's bullshit voter suppression. Legal, of course, but still a total bullshit move.

    She only needs to win 31% of the delegates today to reach the magic number of pledged delegates, so unless you somehow thought that Sanders was going to crush her in the remaining primaries and caucuses, this is already a fait accompli. It's not like he's had a big momentum swing and is on a roll. Add superdelegates to the equation and the fat lady has sung. This isn't voter suppression. If everyone who was registered came out to vote, Sanders still wouldn't have a prayer today.
    That's not the point. Let the people vote today without influencing their decision by declaring a winner. It is a form of voter suppression.

    Let the people vote and let the chips fall as they may.
    It's not suppression. No one is stopping them. Could it influence? Sure but you are misusing the word.

    Btw, I support HRC. There's also 13.5 million voters that have done the same.
    Call it what you may. I call it a form of suppression.

    And, I don't know you, so the fact that you voted for HRC really has nothing to do with my point.
    Just because you call it that doesn't make it so.

    Fair enough, you don't know me. I know lots of HRC supporters. Don't know any Trump or Cruz supporters. None of that is relevant at all.
    I was making an observation based on those in my life whose political viewpoints run the gamut. Interesting to me that none support her. That's all. Wasn't trying to make some grand statement.

    Fuck's sake. I do see why Free, who at times may be passionate to a fault, gets so worked up going back and forth with you.
    I'm more concerned with people throwing around words like fraud, corruption, suppression, etc., when there is no evidence any of that happened. So for fuck's sake, use the English language properly. If people did that, I wouldn't feel the need to argue with them.
    That's exactly what I'm talking about. You come off far beyond condescending and, for the sake of following board rules, I'll stop there.

    I'm aware of the meaning of these words, and sure, we're technically only speaking of influence here. To me, however, it's deeper than that and it's dirtier than that. It isn't fraud but it isn't merely suggesting or persuading someone to vote one way or another. This is telling people that it has been decided and that there's no need to show up and vote for your candidate. Perfect timing, too.

    So that is why I call it a type of suppression.
    Post edited by EarlWelsh on
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited June 2016
    Free said:

    benjs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Why do you want super delegates to overturn the will of the voters? That seems contrary to Bernie's core message. It's all very confusing.
    Comments like these emphasize how little you know about who and how Superdelegates work. Or is it what you want to believe?
    You are ignoring the point that Clinton has more votes from the people.
    And you are ignoring the point that it is fraud and voter suppression to call the race the night before 5 states vote, as well as counting SDs before they vote.
    I'm not ignoring that it is voter suppression at all.
    Please point out where you talk about voter suppression, then.

    This isn't about who will win the nom, this is about a fair and just election process. Which Americans are being robbed of.
    I haven't felt the need to whine about it because it's nothing new and it's just reality.
    And THAT sort of 'asleep at the wheel' attitude is why the media and the system get away with it, pushing it further and further away from a democratic process every election cycle. Give yourself a pat on the back. NOT.
    Hahaha do you think pissing and moaning about how it is unfair is doing anything?
    The media doesn't effect me, 3 gigs of data/month is the only connection I have to the world outside my farm. They aren't swaying me at all, and the sheep will continue to bah and bleat at their TV's even with your petulant child's attitude flooding the Pearl Jam forum. Come down off your high horse.
    Good god, please. Check yourself!
    Free, if you have a problem with the election process, use your democratic right to free speech and propose something better. Highlighting problems can only take you so far in a reasonable debate; at a certain point, empathy really does run dry when complaints are constant but solutions aren't even put on the table.
    It's very interesting Benjs. Exactly how do you propose throwing actual solutions on the table when everyone here, including yourself, choose to attack the poster bringing up the electoral corruption problems rather than debate the topic itself? Does "shoot the messenger" have a nice ring to it?

    Have you guys noticed Brian Lux gone, who left for this exact reason? Continually, you guys prefer to let loose on the messenger and NOT actually discuss the topic of election corruption. When we actually have a decent discussion without need to personally attack, that's when solutions can be proposed. But that can't Doesn't happen here.
    Everyone here? I don't think so. I haven't attacked you on this. I have consistently mentioned electoral corruption in several threads, including this one, and now that I think about it, you never engaged with me when I brought it up. Nor have you ever engaged with me re the support I have shown for Bernie on these boards. You keep acting like everyone is against you... but you ignore the people who aren't against you. :confused: I honestly don't understand wtf it is you're looking for here. It kind of seems like you're just here to be contrary with everyone for the hell of it. Maybe you secretly enjoy the whole "me vs them" dynamic or something, I dunno.

    FWIW, I agree that this call by the media is really inappropriate, given that pledges aren't votes. Superdelegates can actually change their minds, so the media should just shut the fuck up until the ballots are counted.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    PJ_Soul said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Comments like these only reach about five Americans, and we already know when super delegates vote. Perhaps you need a different pulpit if you really are intent on educating the unenlightened masses. Do you ever attend meetings at your local Democratic party precinct? I'm sure they're looking for volunteers. You might make a bigger difference there. You seem to be looking to make a difference.
    Attempting to deflect the issue here and getting personal when things don't work in your favor proves nothing and goes nowhere.
    I don't understand why you keep getting defensive when someone suggests that you actually do something with your enthusiasm for Bernie. You take it as an insult for some reason. You did the same with me when I suggested that you volunteer for Bernie's campaign. Why does this offend you??? If anything, it's a compliment to your dedication to a nominee, and you think it's a personal attack. It's kind of bizarre.
    Ya know, we should rename this thread the "Attack Free" thread because again, most of you feel that I am the topic and that is just not so. If you have nothing to add to the topic then move on.
  • Free said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Comments like these only reach about five Americans, and we already know when super delegates vote. Perhaps you need a different pulpit if you really are intent on educating the unenlightened masses. Do you ever attend meetings at your local Democratic party precinct? I'm sure they're looking for volunteers. You might make a bigger difference there. You seem to be looking to make a difference.
    Attempting to deflect the issue here and getting personal when things don't work in your favor proves nothing and goes nowhere.
    I don't understand why you keep getting defensive when someone suggests that you actually do something with your enthusiasm for Bernie. You take it as an insult for some reason. You did the same with me when I suggested that you volunteer for Bernie's campaign. Why does this offend you??? If anything, it's a compliment to your dedication to a nominee, and you think it's a personal attack. It's kind of bizarre.
    Ya know, we should rename this thread the "Attack Free" thread because again, most of you feel that I am the topic and that is just not so. If you have nothing to add to the topic then move on.
    so you want to complain about being attacked and no one is allowed to respond?
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562

    Free said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    One would be a fool to believe what the news is saying right now. The almighty race to be the first media station to report the false news!! And ahead of 5 state primaries!

    Note to Americans:

    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25
    superdelegates do not vote until july 25

    Comments like these only reach about five Americans, and we already know when super delegates vote. Perhaps you need a different pulpit if you really are intent on educating the unenlightened masses. Do you ever attend meetings at your local Democratic party precinct? I'm sure they're looking for volunteers. You might make a bigger difference there. You seem to be looking to make a difference.
    Attempting to deflect the issue here and getting personal when things don't work in your favor proves nothing and goes nowhere.
    I don't understand why you keep getting defensive when someone suggests that you actually do something with your enthusiasm for Bernie. You take it as an insult for some reason. You did the same with me when I suggested that you volunteer for Bernie's campaign. Why does this offend you??? If anything, it's a compliment to your dedication to a nominee, and you think it's a personal attack. It's kind of bizarre.
    Ya know, we should rename this thread the "Attack Free" thread because again, most of you feel that I am the topic and that is just not so. If you have nothing to add to the topic then move on.
    so you want to complain about being attacked and no one is allowed to respond?
    Boy am I popular!
This discussion has been closed.