In 2011, we were told Gaddafi was going to commit grave bloodshed against his own people and that as a result, the international community needed to intervene to protect Libyan civilians. This proved to be false, according to an analysis of statistics obtained by Human Rights Watch. Further, an investigation conducted by Amnesty International also found a number of claims against Gaddafi were fabricated, as noted by the Independent: “Nato leaders, opposition groups and the media have produced a stream of stories since the start of the insurrection on 15 February, claiming the Gaddafi regime has ordered mass rapes, used foreign mercenaries and employed helicopters against civilian protesters. “An investigation by Amnesty International has failed to find evidence for these human rights violations and in many cases has discredited or cast doubt on them. It also found indications that on several occasions the rebels in Benghazi appeared to have knowingly made false claims or manufactured evidence.”
Benjs - fact: Hillary degrades young female voters who are supporters of Sanders. Fact: she laughs when Madeline Albright shame young women for not supporting Hillary. (see video I posted I believe in the trump thread) Fact: All of this:
presidential forum in Iowa, Clinton fielded a question from a millennial who asked why people his age think she is dishonest. She responded that it’s a symptom of their cluelessness, as they are paying attention to politics for the first time.
In February, Clinton was confronted by a young black protester at a $500-a-plate fundraiser over her lack of apology for supporting mass incarceration and using the racist term “super-predator” in the 1990s. She responded by angrily changing the subject, and declined to apologize.
While campaigning in Minnesota in March, Clinton responded to a young black woman complaining about the lack of diversity in the Democratic Party with a lazy, dismissive, “Why don’t you go run for something?”
During an April Meet the Press interview, Clinton condescendingly told MSNBC’s Chuck Todd that she feels sorry for young people who believe the lies Sanders tells about her. She specifically denied claims made by Greenpeace that she took donations from the fossil fuel industry. However, an investigative report by David Sirota of International Business Times found Clinton accepted millions of dollars in campaign and Clinton Foundation donations from oil companies just a year before she approved the controversial Alberta-Clipper oil pipeline. One of Clinton’s top campaign contributors, Donald Sussman, founder and chairman of the hedge fund Paloma Partners, has invested in several oil companies.
I don't know what to tell you if you don't like these facts. But don't don't jump on my back because you don't like them. These things happened. The defensiveness for Clinton is unbelievable even when facts are right there in front of our faces.
To add on: I know it was op Ed. It contained some factual moments when Clinton on camera degraded and put down millenials, esp. women, for supporting Sanders, they accuse her of accepting Big Oil money (she does) etc. We all know this, it's old news. So when Clinton suddenly recently is making pleas for the younger vote? Perhaps she has short-term memory loss.
Let's start at the beginning.
Clinton degrades young female voters who are supporters of Sanders: evidence, or it isn't a fact by definition.
Madeleine Albright's "shaming": obviously a very tongue-in-cheek joke, magnitudes less offensive or directorial than anything that Trump has said (anecdotally, I ran it by my sister and mother to confirm), and what a human does with jokes, is to laugh. Given the public's opinion of a robotic Clinton, why wouldn't she laugh along with an entire crowd full of laughing faces?
The cluelessness and super-predators are clearly mis-paraphrased topics which I explicitly addressed in my response to you (again - if you read them).
The "why don't you go run for something" was said with venom, and I hold Clinton responsible for an inappropriate comment, but I also feel that as a human being, these sorts of slips are only natural from time to time - usually at times of immense pressure and/or frustration.
I'm opposed to Clinton's hesitance to address climate change issues and their leading causes in any meaningful way, so absolutely hold her accountable. But as one does, when I weigh her cumulative good against her cumulative bad, I feel that it makes more sense to try to exert social and political pressure on the various levels of government, as a way to better her fit as POTUS of a world with a serious climate change problem.
Please don't accuse me of jumping on your back when I'm clearly not. I'm responding to piss-poor journalism - even when I agree with some of the points stated. A jury presented with evidence of an unclear nature is likely to come to conclusions as though the evidence did not exist, and the prosecution's representation is absolutely at fault for that. In this case, the public is the jury, there are a litany of prosecutors, but if the Observer were my attorney, I'd have them fired for all of the reasons I've clearly stated: as in, without links to links to links to conclusions based on unsubstantiated points.
The one thing we can agree on - I also don't know what to tell you if you don't like these facts.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802
She "feels sorry for stupid young people..." 1:10 mark
Wtf are you talking about? Did you watch the video?
Did I miss hearing and seeing the word "stupid" in that sentence? Was that word just invented?
PJ_Soul is on our side (the side of logic)! This was Free's post originally!
We all are on the same side if we are not 1%ers, (and no one here is) so this little competitive dig and piggy-backing just adds to the divisiveness and pettiness. Nice.
She "feels sorry for stupid young people..." 1:10 mark
Wtf are you talking about? Did you watch the video?
Did I miss hearing and seeing the word "stupid" in that sentence? Was that word just invented?
PJ_Soul is on our side (the side of logic)! This was Free's post originally!
We all are on the same side if we are not 1%ers, (and no one here is) so this little competitive dig and piggy-backing just adds to the divisiveness and pettiness. Nice.
OMG are you kidding me? You've been posting crap against Hillary for months, regardless of the state of the primary. You insult us left and right, about how we can't think for ourselves, etc. And now you say this? Listen, no one here cares to say a word about Bernie. If you want to call this truce so we can focus on Trump, then let's do it. Your call.
3rd Party, Russell. She probably won't win the Millenial vote so what are you going to do? Yell some more at Hillary's non-supporters? Do you think that will get them to vote for her?
3rd Party, Russell. She probably won't win the Millenial vote so what are you going to do? Yell some more at Hillary's non-supporters? Do you think that will get them to vote for her?
Yes Free, my strategy is to yell at people on the AMT. I'm sure that will work out.
Right now, according to ABC poll, she is winning under 40: 51/27/15/2 (that 2% is Jill Stein, FYI)
In the Washpo poll (2-way), she is up 41-29.
So who do you think will win the young vote if not HRC?
And don't forget that the "young" vote traditionally has the lowest turnout of any age demographic. They're always discussed as the "wave" but historically they're a "ripple." Regardless, Hillary will carry them.
See the article for details, This part especially entertaining.
...Clinton campaign explicitly advertised these events as an appeal to prodigal young voters.
The surrogate speeches haven’t always gone according to plan, though. Obama’s speech at George Mason University was at one point met with chants of “four more years”; her stumping apparently got the crowd pumped for the wrong politician.
See the article for details, This part especially entertaining.
...Clinton campaign explicitly advertised these events as an appeal to prodigal young voters.
The surrogate speeches haven’t always gone according to plan, though. Obama’s speech at George Mason University was at one point met with chants of “four more years”; her stumping apparently got the crowd pumped for the wrong politician.
This is a story.. not data. You know yourself that people write articles to drive eyeballs. Don't you think your eyeballs and those like you count too? They conduct polls for eyeballs too. If you want to laugh at polls, then fine. But you don't have any empirical data that represents someone other than HRC will win the youth vote. The question is whether she'll win enough of it. But if you think someone else will win a plurality, then please tell me who you think will do so.
3rd Party, Russell. She probably won't win the Millenial vote so what are you going to do? Yell some more at Hillary's non-supporters? Do you think that will get them to vote for her?
Do you think yelling some more at Hillary supporters is going to change the outcome of the election?
See the article for details, This part especially entertaining.
...Clinton campaign explicitly advertised these events as an appeal to prodigal young voters.
The surrogate speeches haven’t always gone according to plan, though. Obama’s speech at George Mason University was at one point met with chants of “four more years”; her stumping apparently got the crowd pumped for the wrong politician.
George Mason University is a five minute drive from my house (the traffic on my drive home the day of Obama's visit was a nightmare).
I know for a fact that the Democratic Party is registering voters like crazy there, and has a very active Clinton apparatus on campus. Nice headline for a day, but we are not worried about the millenials at GMU.
3rd Party, Russell. She probably won't win the Millenial vote so what are you going to do? Yell some more at Hillary's non-supporters? Do you think that will get them to vote for her?
Do you think yelling some more at Hillary supporters is going to change the outcome of the election?
See the article for details, This part especially entertaining.
...Clinton campaign explicitly advertised these events as an appeal to prodigal young voters.
The surrogate speeches haven’t always gone according to plan, though. Obama’s speech at George Mason University was at one point met with chants of “four more years”; her stumping apparently got the crowd pumped for the wrong politician.
George Mason University is a five minute drive from my house (the traffic on my drive home the day of Obama's visit was a nightmare).
I know for a fact that the Democratic Party is registering voters like crazy there, and has a very active Clinton apparatus on campus. Nice headline for a day, but we are not worried about the millenials at GMU.
Ah yes, the Patriot Center. I saw the Pumpkins there (bad) and Mumford (not bad). Didn't know you were in Fairfax.
3rd Party, Russell. She probably won't win the Millenial vote so what are you going to do? Yell some more at Hillary's non-supporters? Do you think that will get them to vote for her?
Do you think yelling some more at Hillary supporters is going to change the outcome of the election?
See the article for details, This part especially entertaining.
...Clinton campaign explicitly advertised these events as an appeal to prodigal young voters.
The surrogate speeches haven’t always gone according to plan, though. Obama’s speech at George Mason University was at one point met with chants of “four more years”; her stumping apparently got the crowd pumped for the wrong politician.
George Mason University is a five minute drive from my house (the traffic on my drive home the day of Obama's visit was a nightmare).
I know for a fact that the Democratic Party is registering voters like crazy there, and has a very active Clinton apparatus on campus. Nice headline for a day, but we are not worried about the millenials at GMU.
Ah yes, the Patriot Center. I saw the Pumpkins there (bad) and Mumford (not bad). Didn't know you were in Fairfax.
The Patriot Center is now called Eagle Bank Arena, unfortunately.
Another FYI about Fairfax and the millenials. The field organizer for my precinct is not a middle aged mom in a mini-van. It's a young man who looks to be about 12 years old. I hear from him multiple times every week through various social media outlets, and he's taking his job very seriously. He knows very well what's at stake for his generation.
She "feels sorry for stupid young people..." 1:10 mark
Wtf are you talking about? Did you watch the video?
Did I miss hearing and seeing the word "stupid" in that sentence? Was that word just invented?
PJ_Soul is on our side (the side of logic)! This was Free's post originally!
We all are on the same side if we are not 1%ers, (and no one here is) so this little competitive dig and piggy-backing just adds to the divisiveness and pettiness. Nice.
You're right, that was petty of me. That said, it's frustrating that I debunk statements in the article you linked, and you repeat those exact statements (quite arrogantly) as though they are "Fact: ...". I'm sorry, but it's hard to claim a statement is factual when someone refutes it, and your retort is to repeat said statement without addressing the rebuttal nor adding anything to the original statement. I still say that almost every single statement in that article is either absurdly hyperbolic (when if statements were made without embellishments, they truly would not offend many/any), or lacking context to the point where the meaning was different than stated, or simply incorrectly paraphrased in ways that change the meaning. This is unprofessional and disingenuous.
Edit: If you address my objections reasonably and rationally, then we'll be effectively engaging in debate, which is what I love about this place. I hope we can get there, Free. I've been exposed to plenty by you, and look forward to learning more.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
3rd Party, Russell. She probably won't win the Millenial vote so what are you going to do? Yell some more at Hillary's non-supporters? Do you think that will get them to vote for her?
Do you think yelling some more at Hillary supporters is going to change the outcome of the election?
See the article for details, This part especially entertaining.
...Clinton campaign explicitly advertised these events as an appeal to prodigal young voters.
The surrogate speeches haven’t always gone according to plan, though. Obama’s speech at George Mason University was at one point met with chants of “four more years”; her stumping apparently got the crowd pumped for the wrong politician.
George Mason University is a five minute drive from my house (the traffic on my drive home the day of Obama's visit was a nightmare).
I know for a fact that the Democratic Party is registering voters like crazy there, and has a very active Clinton apparatus on campus. Nice headline for a day, but we are not worried about the millenials at GMU.
Ah yes, the Patriot Center. I saw the Pumpkins there (bad) and Mumford (not bad). Didn't know you were in Fairfax.
3rd Party, Russell. She probably won't win the Millenial vote so what are you going to do? Yell some more at Hillary's non-supporters? Do you think that will get them to vote for her?
Do you think yelling some more at Hillary supporters is going to change the outcome of the election?
See the article for details, This part especially entertaining.
...Clinton campaign explicitly advertised these events as an appeal to prodigal young voters.
The surrogate speeches haven’t always gone according to plan, though. Obama’s speech at George Mason University was at one point met with chants of “four more years”; her stumping apparently got the crowd pumped for the wrong politician.
George Mason University is a five minute drive from my house (the traffic on my drive home the day of Obama's visit was a nightmare).
I know for a fact that the Democratic Party is registering voters like crazy there, and has a very active Clinton apparatus on campus. Nice headline for a day, but we are not worried about the millenials at GMU.
Ah yes, the Patriot Center. I saw the Pumpkins there (bad) and Mumford (not bad). Didn't know you were in Fairfax.
I saw Pearl Jam there!!
The night Eddie put a hole in the stage with the mic stand? I was waiting tables that night and couldn't get anyone to cover my shift. Seems like a completely different lifetime.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
She "feels sorry for stupid young people..." 1:10 mark
Wtf are you talking about? Did you watch the video?
Did I miss hearing and seeing the word "stupid" in that sentence? Was that word just invented?
PJ_Soul is on our side (the side of logic)! This was Free's post originally!
We all are on the same side if we are not 1%ers, (and no one here is) so this little competitive dig and piggy-backing just adds to the divisiveness and pettiness. Nice.
You're right, that was petty of me. That said, it's frustrating that I debunk statements in the article you linked, and you repeat those exact statements (quite arrogantly) as though they are "Fact: ...". I'm sorry, but it's hard to claim a statement is factual when someone refutes it, and your retort is to repeat said statement without addressing the rebuttal nor adding anything to the original statement. I still say that almost every single statement in that article is either absurdly hyperbolic (when if statements were made without embellishments, they truly would not offend many/any), or lacking context to the point where the meaning was different than stated, or simply incorrectly paraphrased in ways that change the meaning. This is unprofessional and disingenuous.
Edit: If you address my objections reasonably and rationally, then we'll be effectively engaging in debate, which is what I love about this place. I hope we can get there, Free. I've been exposed to plenty by you, and look forward to learning more.
Well, let's not ignore that Free seems to now just be making shit up, and then when someone says something about it he just pretends it never happened.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Clinton needs all the people that turned out for Obama to win. Lots of those voters were millennials and independents. Recent reports have shown that a lot of millennials/indepentents are taking their votes to third party candidates. Sanders reached out to many of those voters pleading with them to support Clinton. Clinton hasn't done much campaigning around colleges or reaching out to millennials - she tried going on between two firns and I recently heard she said something about every decision she makes will have millennials at the table... Hahaha...I think her and sanders will be at a college this week too.
Anyhow, can she win without having the full support of obama's voters?
Comments
In 2011, we were told Gaddafi was going to commit grave bloodshed against his own people and that as a result, the international community needed to intervene to protect Libyan civilians. This proved to be false, according to an analysis of statistics obtained by Human Rights Watch. Further, an investigation conducted by Amnesty International also found a number of claims against Gaddafi were fabricated, as noted by the Independent:
“Nato leaders, opposition groups and the media have produced a stream of stories since the start of the insurrection on 15 February, claiming the Gaddafi regime has ordered mass rapes, used foreign mercenaries and employed helicopters against civilian protesters.
“An investigation by Amnesty International has failed to find evidence for these human rights violations and in many cases has discredited or cast doubt on them. It also found indications that on several occasions the rebels in Benghazi appeared to have knowingly made false claims or manufactured evidence.”
Clinton degrades young female voters who are supporters of Sanders: evidence, or it isn't a fact by definition.
Madeleine Albright's "shaming": obviously a very tongue-in-cheek joke, magnitudes less offensive or directorial than anything that Trump has said (anecdotally, I ran it by my sister and mother to confirm), and what a human does with jokes, is to laugh. Given the public's opinion of a robotic Clinton, why wouldn't she laugh along with an entire crowd full of laughing faces?
The cluelessness and super-predators are clearly mis-paraphrased topics which I explicitly addressed in my response to you (again - if you read them).
The "why don't you go run for something" was said with venom, and I hold Clinton responsible for an inappropriate comment, but I also feel that as a human being, these sorts of slips are only natural from time to time - usually at times of immense pressure and/or frustration.
I'm opposed to Clinton's hesitance to address climate change issues and their leading causes in any meaningful way, so absolutely hold her accountable. But as one does, when I weigh her cumulative good against her cumulative bad, I feel that it makes more sense to try to exert social and political pressure on the various levels of government, as a way to better her fit as POTUS of a world with a serious climate change problem.
Please don't accuse me of jumping on your back when I'm clearly not. I'm responding to piss-poor journalism - even when I agree with some of the points stated. A jury presented with evidence of an unclear nature is likely to come to conclusions as though the evidence did not exist, and the prosecution's representation is absolutely at fault for that. In this case, the public is the jury, there are a litany of prosecutors, but if the Observer were my attorney, I'd have them fired for all of the reasons I've clearly stated: as in, without links to links to links to conclusions based on unsubstantiated points.
The one thing we can agree on - I also don't know what to tell you if you don't like these facts.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Yeah, about that bridge...
Godfather.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Right now, according to ABC poll, she is winning under 40:
51/27/15/2 (that 2% is Jill Stein, FYI)
In the Washpo poll (2-way), she is up 41-29.
So who do you think will win the young vote if not HRC?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
But since some here love to follow them and believe in them, https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/when-will-millennials-start-liking-hillary-clinton/2016/09/22/4f2e0de8-80fb-11e6-a52d-9a865a0ed0d4_story.html?utm_term=.96350723df3a
See the article for details, This part especially entertaining.
This is a story.. not data. You know yourself that people write articles to drive eyeballs. Don't you think your eyeballs and those like you count too? They conduct polls for eyeballs too. If you want to laugh at polls, then fine. But you don't have any empirical data that represents someone other than HRC will win the youth vote. The question is whether she'll win enough of it. But if you think someone else will win a plurality, then please tell me who you think will do so.
George Mason University is a five minute drive from my house (the traffic on my drive home the day of Obama's visit was a nightmare).
I know for a fact that the Democratic Party is registering voters like crazy there, and has a very active Clinton apparatus on campus. Nice headline for a day, but we are not worried about the millenials at GMU.
I know for a fact that the Democratic Party is registering voters like crazy there, and has a very active Clinton apparatus on campus. Nice headline for a day, but we are not worried about the millenials at GMU.
Ah yes, the Patriot Center. I saw the Pumpkins there (bad) and Mumford (not bad). Didn't know you were in Fairfax.
The Patriot Center is now called Eagle Bank Arena, unfortunately.
Another FYI about Fairfax and the millenials. The field organizer for my precinct is not a middle aged mom in a mini-van. It's a young man who looks to be about 12 years old. I hear from him multiple times every week through various social media outlets, and he's taking his job very seriously. He knows very well what's at stake for his generation.
Edit: If you address my objections reasonably and rationally, then we'll be effectively engaging in debate, which is what I love about this place. I hope we can get there, Free. I've been exposed to plenty by you, and look forward to learning more.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I saw Pearl Jam there!!
The night Eddie put a hole in the stage with the mic stand? I was waiting tables that night and couldn't get anyone to cover my shift. Seems like a completely different lifetime.
Anyhow, can she win without having the full support of obama's voters?
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm