I personally disagree with this. His dad was a known race baiter. He has had multiple incidents where he claimed racism for being Muslim.
I feel he knew exactly how everyone would react to a suitcase "clock" that resembles a suicide bomb more than anything else at all.
I agree he should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent. If the situation were reversed and he did actually bring a bomb, but nothing was done, then the school would have been ridiculed and berated to death over why they didn't do something to stop the situation.
So again, the kid being arrested I fully agree with. They should have brought in the whole family and had homeland security question and interrogate them all. Maybe some torture. Just to get to the root of the problem
Seriously?
Jesus.
I think it is official now, JAG is a troll here with the purpose of riling us. There is no way that is not the case. I wish we could collectively "block" this child, I fear someone with real and valued input (myself included) will be banned for responding to this bridge-dweller.
I didn't realize your $20 membership was more important than mine. Don't worry, I've been bullied, attacked, my religion shit on, and I've yet to flag anything. So feel free to rip me apart, everyone else does and doesn't get in trouble. Seems like the fun new game. Give it a spin.
You just might get that dopamine hit your body craves.
Really? Then who flagged my comment about you being weird? (Just asking a question Kat, NOT calling her weird again)? Because I've been around for a long time and know just about everyone who posts on amt. I don't get along with them all but I'm positive the ones I don't would never flag anything I post.
Oh so now I'm accused of that? I didn't flag a single thing. Weren't you flagged over the photo? And since you bring that up, I didn't even know you were flagged for personally attacking me. But if you didn't, you wouldn't worry about who was flagging what. Right?
It's your own fault that happened for using dead children's photos for your own personal gain.
With that said, I didn't flag your photo or anything else for that matter. I was nowhere near that thread, because I didn't want to be fasley accused of something, yet here it is. Maybe you don't know the people here as well as you think you do. Or maybe it wasn't flagged at all, but you were in trouble for a personal attack?
I don't need links to back up how I feel about things. Google is out there. I saw the info about the dad on a news article. I didn't just make the shit up.
You accuse me of never answering questions, but who's answered mine?? What and how was the school supposed to react to ANYONE (regardless of race) bringing an item that looks like a bomb? That's why this is being diacussed. Not because he brought an item that looked like an fm am radio. It's a briefcase with wires hanging out in the same way a bomb is. What's wrong with the precautions?
And many many many Muslims were tortured under the patriot act in the name of freedom. They were tortured for intelligence on terrorist attacks. A child bringing a device that resembles a bomb should call for the same type of investigation as other potential terrorists, no? Maybe tourting is unchristian, which is why I don't do it. But I'm not against it, for freedom. Maybe they need to get the truth out, how ever necessary, throuhh torture or investigation, who cares? We don't care when it happens at Guantanamo bay. Why should we care if it happens In A school?
The vast majority of posters here DO care about torture, wherever it happens. Torture is wrong, it is a simple ethical issue that should transend the followers of one God or another.
Why do you need to follow up that torture is wrong with statements about god? Torture is wrong god or not.
I personally disagree with this. His dad was a known race baiter. He has had multiple incidents where he claimed racism for being Muslim.
I feel he knew exactly how everyone would react to a suitcase "clock" that resembles a suicide bomb more than anything else at all.
I agree he should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent. If the situation were reversed and he did actually bring a bomb, but nothing was done, then the school would have been ridiculed and berated to death over why they didn't do something to stop the situation.
So again, the kid being arrested I fully agree with. They should have brought in the whole family and had homeland security question and interrogate them all. Maybe some torture. Just to get to the root of the problem
Seriously?
Jesus.
I think it is official now, JAG is a troll here with the purpose of riling us. There is no way that is not the case. I wish we could collectively "block" this child, I fear someone with real and valued input (myself included) will be banned for responding to this bridge-dweller.
I didn't realize your $20 membership was more important than mine. Don't worry, I've been bullied, attacked, my religion shit on, and I've yet to flag anything. So feel free to rip me apart, everyone else does and doesn't get in trouble. Seems like the fun new game. Give it a spin.
You just might get that dopamine hit your body craves.
Really? Then who flagged my comment about you being weird? (Just asking a question Kat, NOT calling her weird again)? Because I've been around for a long time and know just about everyone who posts on amt. I don't get along with them all but I'm positive the ones I don't would never flag anything I post.
Oh so now I'm accused of that? I didn't flag a single thing. Weren't you flagged over the photo? And since you bring that up, I didn't even know you were flagged for personally attacking me. But if you didn't, you wouldn't worry about who was flagging what. Right?
It's your own fault that happened for using dead children's photos for your own personal gain.
With that said, I didn't flag your photo or anything else for that matter. I was nowhere near that thread, because I didn't want to be fasley accused of something, yet here it is. Maybe you don't know the people here as well as you think you do. Or maybe it wasn't flagged at all, but you were in trouble for a personal attack?
I don't need links to back up how I feel about things. Google is out there. I saw the info about the dad on a news article. I didn't just make the shit up.
You accuse me of never answering questions, but who's answered mine?? What and how was the school supposed to react to ANYONE (regardless of race) bringing an item that looks like a bomb? That's why this is being diacussed. Not because he brought an item that looked like an fm am radio. It's a briefcase with wires hanging out in the same way a bomb is. What's wrong with the precautions?
And many many many Muslims were tortured under the patriot act in the name of freedom. They were tortured for intelligence on terrorist attacks. A child bringing a device that resembles a bomb should call for the same type of investigation as other potential terrorists, no? Maybe tourting is unchristian, which is why I don't do it. But I'm not against it, for freedom. Maybe they need to get the truth out, how ever necessary, throuhh torture or investigation, who cares? We don't care when it happens at Guantanamo bay. Why should we care if it happens In A school?
And the illuminati?
JAG, please answer the following:
What is it about the father that has you asking us to google because "it's" out there? What? That he sold hot dogs in NYC? He owned a cab company and sold it to yellow cab? He's got 6 kids? That he ran for president of Sudan? Twice? Or is it because he took on the cult of Koran burners in FL in their mock trial?
How many "bombs" have you personally seen?
Do you not see the hypocrisy in your support of torture and your complaining about your religion being "attacked?" Is torture a Christian virtue?
Does this mean BB can never be president or did Obama break the mold and open the door for Muslims to be president?
I'll respectfully wait for your answers. Thank you.
Even though your post is dripping with sarcasm, here are my answers for your entertainment.
The father - has had 8-9 other incidents of claiming to be victimized due to race/religion. So it seems this is yet another one of those situations (did the parents not see the bomb looking clock the kid brought?)
I've seen the same number of bombs, personally, as you. Zero. I've seen many many many bombs in photos, magazines, movies, tv shows etc. this question is ridiculous
I support torture in the name of freedom. How many attacks did we prevent due to tourting inmates at Guantanamo for Intel? More than one, that's for sure.
Obama is a Muslim and not born in the USA. I won't post a single word on BB, but, the rules were changed when Arnold Schwarzenegger, an Austrian immigrant, was elected govenerman of CA. He attempted a run at the office but was denied. Since then the laws have changed to allow anyone be pres, not just the ones born in the USA
THere ya have. I realize answering this is all sarcastic, esp due to the tone of your post, but you asked so there it is
I'm fucken confused. You said GWB was the cause of 9/11 and yet you're ok with torture for freedom? What? How can you honestly feel that way? Seriously. That makes no sense since it was the same GWB who created Guantanamo and the torture program. You're not making any sense
I personally disagree with this. His dad was a known race baiter. He has had multiple incidents where he claimed racism for being Muslim.
I feel he knew exactly how everyone would react to a suitcase "clock" that resembles a suicide bomb more than anything else at all.
I agree he should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent. If the situation were reversed and he did actually bring a bomb, but nothing was done, then the school would have been ridiculed and berated to death over why they didn't do something to stop the situation.
So again, the kid being arrested I fully agree with. They should have brought in the whole family and had homeland security question and interrogate them all. Maybe some torture. Just to get to the root of the problem
Seriously?
Jesus.
I think it is official now, JAG is a troll here with the purpose of riling us. There is no way that is not the case. I wish we could collectively "block" this child, I fear someone with real and valued input (myself included) will be banned for responding to this bridge-dweller.
I didn't realize your $20 membership was more important than mine. Don't worry, I've been bullied, attacked, my religion shit on, and I've yet to flag anything. So feel free to rip me apart, everyone else does and doesn't get in trouble. Seems like the fun new game. Give it a spin.
You just might get that dopamine hit your body craves.
Really? Then who flagged my comment about you being weird? (Just asking a question Kat, NOT calling her weird again)? Because I've been around for a long time and know just about everyone who posts on amt. I don't get along with them all but I'm positive the ones I don't would never flag anything I post.
Oh so now I'm accused of that? I didn't flag a single thing. Weren't you flagged over the photo? And since you bring that up, I didn't even know you were flagged for personally attacking me. But if you didn't, you wouldn't worry about who was flagging what. Right?
It's your own fault that happened for using dead children's photos for your own personal gain.
With that said, I didn't flag your photo or anything else for that matter. I was nowhere near that thread, because I didn't want to be fasley accused of something, yet here it is. Maybe you don't know the people here as well as you think you do. Or maybe it wasn't flagged at all, but you were in trouble for a personal attack?
I don't need links to back up how I feel about things. Google is out there. I saw the info about the dad on a news article. I didn't just make the shit up.
You accuse me of never answering questions, but who's answered mine?? What and how was the school supposed to react to ANYONE (regardless of race) bringing an item that looks like a bomb? That's why this is being diacussed. Not because he brought an item that looked like an fm am radio. It's a briefcase with wires hanging out in the same way a bomb is. What's wrong with the precautions?
And many many many Muslims were tortured under the patriot act in the name of freedom. They were tortured for intelligence on terrorist attacks. A child bringing a device that resembles a bomb should call for the same type of investigation as other potential terrorists, no? Maybe tourting is unchristian, which is why I don't do it. But I'm not against it, for freedom. Maybe they need to get the truth out, how ever necessary, throuhh torture or investigation, who cares? We don't care when it happens at Guantanamo bay. Why should we care if it happens In A school?
The vast majority of posters here DO care about torture, wherever it happens. Torture is wrong, it is a simple ethical issue that should transend the followers of one God or another.
Why do you need to follow up that torture is wrong with statements about god? Torture is wrong god or not.
Hahaha that's exactly what I said, just in slightly different words. So why do you need to follow with statements about God? Good for the goose is good for the gander lol
I personally disagree with this. His dad was a known race baiter. He has had multiple incidents where he claimed racism for being Muslim.
I feel he knew exactly how everyone would react to a suitcase "clock" that resembles a suicide bomb more than anything else at all.
I agree he should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent. If the situation were reversed and he did actually bring a bomb, but nothing was done, then the school would have been ridiculed and berated to death over why they didn't do something to stop the situation.
So again, the kid being arrested I fully agree with. They should have brought in the whole family and had homeland security question and interrogate them all. Maybe some torture. Just to get to the root of the problem
Seriously?
Jesus.
I think it is official now, JAG is a troll here with the purpose of riling us. There is no way that is not the case. I wish we could collectively "block" this child, I fear someone with real and valued input (myself included) will be banned for responding to this bridge-dweller.
I didn't realize your $20 membership was more important than mine. Don't worry, I've been bullied, attacked, my religion shit on, and I've yet to flag anything. So feel free to rip me apart, everyone else does and doesn't get in trouble. Seems like the fun new game. Give it a spin.
You just might get that dopamine hit your body craves.
Really? Then who flagged my comment about you being weird? (Just asking a question Kat, NOT calling her weird again)? Because I've been around for a long time and know just about everyone who posts on amt. I don't get along with them all but I'm positive the ones I don't would never flag anything I post.
Oh so now I'm accused of that? I didn't flag a single thing. Weren't you flagged over the photo? And since you bring that up, I didn't even know you were flagged for personally attacking me. But if you didn't, you wouldn't worry about who was flagging what. Right?
It's your own fault that happened for using dead children's photos for your own personal gain.
With that said, I didn't flag your photo or anything else for that matter. I was nowhere near that thread, because I didn't want to be fasley accused of something, yet here it is. Maybe you don't know the people here as well as you think you do. Or maybe it wasn't flagged at all, but you were in trouble for a personal attack?
I don't need links to back up how I feel about things. Google is out there. I saw the info about the dad on a news article. I didn't just make the shit up.
You accuse me of never answering questions, but who's answered mine?? What and how was the school supposed to react to ANYONE (regardless of race) bringing an item that looks like a bomb? That's why this is being diacussed. Not because he brought an item that looked like an fm am radio. It's a briefcase with wires hanging out in the same way a bomb is. What's wrong with the precautions?
And many many many Muslims were tortured under the patriot act in the name of freedom. They were tortured for intelligence on terrorist attacks. A child bringing a device that resembles a bomb should call for the same type of investigation as other potential terrorists, no? Maybe tourting is unchristian, which is why I don't do it. But I'm not against it, for freedom. Maybe they need to get the truth out, how ever necessary, throuhh torture or investigation, who cares? We don't care when it happens at Guantanamo bay. Why should we care if it happens In A school?
The vast majority of posters here DO care about torture, wherever it happens. Torture is wrong, it is a simple ethical issue that should transend the followers of one God or another.
Why do you need to follow up that torture is wrong with statements about god? Torture is wrong god or not.
Hahaha that's exactly what I said, just in slightly different words. So why do you need to follow with statements about God? Good for the goose is good for the gander lol
I personally disagree with this. His dad was a known race baiter. He has had multiple incidents where he claimed racism for being Muslim.
I feel he knew exactly how everyone would react to a suitcase "clock" that resembles a suicide bomb more than anything else at all.
I agree he should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent. If the situation were reversed and he did actually bring a bomb, but nothing was done, then the school would have been ridiculed and berated to death over why they didn't do something to stop the situation.
So again, the kid being arrested I fully agree with. They should have brought in the whole family and had homeland security question and interrogate them all. Maybe some torture. Just to get to the root of the problem
Seriously?
Jesus.
I think it is official now, JAG is a troll here with the purpose of riling us. There is no way that is not the case. I wish we could collectively "block" this child, I fear someone with real and valued input (myself included) will be banned for responding to this bridge-dweller.
I didn't realize your $20 membership was more important than mine. Don't worry, I've been bullied, attacked, my religion shit on, and I've yet to flag anything. So feel free to rip me apart, everyone else does and doesn't get in trouble. Seems like the fun new game. Give it a spin.
You just might get that dopamine hit your body craves.
Really? Then who flagged my comment about you being weird? (Just asking a question Kat, NOT calling her weird again)? Because I've been around for a long time and know just about everyone who posts on amt. I don't get along with them all but I'm positive the ones I don't would never flag anything I post.
Oh so now I'm accused of that? I didn't flag a single thing. Weren't you flagged over the photo? And since you bring that up, I didn't even know you were flagged for personally attacking me. But if you didn't, you wouldn't worry about who was flagging what. Right?
It's your own fault that happened for using dead children's photos for your own personal gain.
With that said, I didn't flag your photo or anything else for that matter. I was nowhere near that thread, because I didn't want to be fasley accused of something, yet here it is. Maybe you don't know the people here as well as you think you do. Or maybe it wasn't flagged at all, but you were in trouble for a personal attack?
I don't need links to back up how I feel about things. Google is out there. I saw the info about the dad on a news article. I didn't just make the shit up.
You accuse me of never answering questions, but who's answered mine?? What and how was the school supposed to react to ANYONE (regardless of race) bringing an item that looks like a bomb? That's why this is being diacussed. Not because he brought an item that looked like an fm am radio. It's a briefcase with wires hanging out in the same way a bomb is. What's wrong with the precautions?
And many many many Muslims were tortured under the patriot act in the name of freedom. They were tortured for intelligence on terrorist attacks. A child bringing a device that resembles a bomb should call for the same type of investigation as other potential terrorists, no? Maybe tourting is unchristian, which is why I don't do it. But I'm not against it, for freedom. Maybe they need to get the truth out, how ever necessary, throuhh torture or investigation, who cares? We don't care when it happens at Guantanamo bay. Why should we care if it happens In A school?
And the illuminati?
JAG, please answer the following:
What is it about the father that has you asking us to google because "it's" out there? What? That he sold hot dogs in NYC? He owned a cab company and sold it to yellow cab? He's got 6 kids? That he ran for president of Sudan? Twice? Or is it because he took on the cult of Koran burners in FL in their mock trial?
How many "bombs" have you personally seen?
Do you not see the hypocrisy in your support of torture and your complaining about your religion being "attacked?" Is torture a Christian virtue?
Does this mean BB can never be president or did Obama break the mold and open the door for Muslims to be president?
I'll respectfully wait for your answers. Thank you.
Even though your post is dripping with sarcasm, here are my answers for your entertainment.
The father - has had 8-9 other incidents of claiming to be victimized due to race/religion. So it seems this is yet another one of those situations (did the parents not see the bomb looking clock the kid brought?)
I've seen the same number of bombs, personally, as you. Zero. I've seen many many many bombs in photos, magazines, movies, tv shows etc. this question is ridiculous
I support torture in the name of freedom. How many attacks did we prevent due to tourting inmates at Guantanamo for Intel? More than one, that's for sure.
Obama is a Muslim and not born in the USA. I won't post a single word on BB, but, the rules were changed when Arnold Schwarzenegger, an Austrian immigrant, was elected govenerman of CA. He attempted a run at the office but was denied. Since then the laws have changed to allow anyone be pres, not just the ones born in the USA
THere ya have. I realize answering this is all sarcastic, esp due to the tone of your post, but you asked so there it is
Thank you for your answers. However, I fail to see or feel my sarcasm. Now we have a place to begin to have a conversation despite our differing opinions. Can you please provide a link to the 8-9 race/religion problems the father has had? I searched and I came up with what I listed in my previous post.
Why is my question ridiculous? The clock doesn't look like a bomb to me. More like a briefcase with a circuit board and wires hanging out of it. I've seen a couple of different photos of the alleged bomb and they are vastly different. Neither had anything that appeared to be an accelerant, plastique, blasting caps or dynamite or anything I would consider bomb material to go boom.
What rules were changed? The US Constitution? Interpretation of same by the courts? Lower, circuit or supreme?
All of the experts who have testified, written about or spoken of the effectiveness of torture at gitmo have said the same thing, that it was ineffective and did not contribute to preventing acts of terrorism. Where or what is your source that it prevented more than one act of terrorism?
You previously asked what the school should have done in this instance. They should have done what the other 7 or 8 schools confronted with kids who brought home made clocks to school. Nothing. Even for the kid in Colorado who brought an actual inert bomb to the science fair and the other kid who made a clock or maybe it was the bomb instance, that had diesel fuel and fertilizer in it. Again, nothing. Google the Gawker article and maybe I'll post it later.
I feel you only asked for my answers to mock them. If that's not the case, I apologize.
I don't wish to debate this to death, I've said how I feel. Thanks for having an actual conversation with me about it.
And to answer others, yes I agree with torture if it saves innocents. It's happened already (prevention through torture) and I'm willing to be tortured as well if it helps save American lives.
With all due respect, you keep repeating that torture stopped plots or saved lives. What is your source for that line of thinking? Everything I've read claims the opposite.
I feel you only asked for my answers to mock them. If that's not the case, I apologize.
I don't wish to debate this to death, I've said how I feel. Thanks for having an actual conversation with me about it.
And to answer others, yes I agree with torture if it saves innocents. It's happened already (prevention through torture) and I'm willing to be tortured as well if it helps save American lives.
I'm gonna ask this of you in a non combative way. You said you've studied the illuminati right? Then you would agree that this shit that's happening all over the world is planned right? Part of the agenda right? Then how do you feel and post the views you have? I'm trying to understand your views. I've read a TON about them and I didn't get anything out of the books and articles I read about them that you did. I would think someone who knows about the "hidden hand" would know this all a part of the agenda. They wouldn't post the stuff you're posting. I find it very confusing. I can honestly have a discussion with you about them. I've read so much about them that I could prob write a book about them too.
JAG, to show you I'm not talking shit. I'll post something about them. Where did they land the planes that had the coke in them from Nicaragua? And who was the governor at the time? Arkansas and Bill Clinton. Who became 2 time president for it? You guessed it. See, I too know about them. I just took what I read differently then you did.
I live about 25 miles from Irving, TX, where this took place. It's a bedroom community of Dallas, I think maybe 200K people. Lots of local coverage of Ahmed's arrest, as you can imagine. I think one of the more interesting things I've learned is that It's very common for the Irving school district to call the police to intervene on disciplinary matters. The Irving P.D. is scrambling right now to do damage control and stress that he isn't being charged with anything, but the school district stood by their decision to suspend him for 3 days. The principal sent home a letter to parents on the day of the arrest touting how they had averted a possible threat. Now the district is making it known that since Ahmed doesn't want to return to that school, he'll be welcome at one of the other high schools. Even our ultra conservative governor has said that it was an overreach to arrest the boy. I'm curious to see the next events and also hoping this kid soon gets to go back to being a kid.
g under p, thanks for your post. I'm only slightly aware of the contributions to math, science, astronomy, among others, that came out of the Middle East. I know that if it weren't for our system of Arabic numerals, we might all be trying to do long division with Roman numerals.
Thanks Who Princess for your info from down your way. Let's hope he can get back in school to continue his education. Here's Bill Maher's take on all this and I liked what Chris Mathews had to say....
spot on. Maher is correct. and the people complaining would they feel the same way if a muslim kid brought a clock like that into their child's school and the teachers did nothing? clearly the kid shouldn't have been put in handcuffs but the teacher did the right thing.
I don't know why people can't understand this. It's all or nothing in this country. I would hope and pray that if I my kid was in a school and any teacher in the school had even the smallest inclination that there was a bomb that they would say something. And go figure, the Texas authorities fucked it up after
I haven't heard or watched Maher in several years, but I'm kind of surprised to see him take the position of excuse making and sympathy for authority when someone's rights are trampled. He seems like someone who's aware that it's primarily white kids killing people at school, but then saying that 'well of course they're worried because Muslims blow people up' line. I always thought he was more thoughtful than that.
His rights were trampled? Yea. Poor kid.
People willing to give up their rights out of fear is what I have a big issue with.
why? some people rather feel safe than let every person do whatever the hell they want. without rules there is anarchy..
and what can't the average american do today that they would legally do 10-20 years ago? what have we given up when you refer to giving up certain rights?
Why? Because people are giving up rights for only perceived safety, not actual safety. People are being manipulated by politicians pushing a message of fear ("it could happen") and the result if things like the Patriot Act. The violation of constitutional rights happen on a more individual basis, so it's easy for people to rationalize it away when it happens to someone else. People are willing to give up on probable cause when the cops are stopping others.
so are you saying that someone (never mind a Muslim kid) bringing an electronic device into school without permission is not probable cause to look at the device and question the kid?
as much as you say politicians use fear the other side like yourself who use comments like 'giving up your rights' are doing just as much of the same. it's as much a rhetoric of fear as the other side. some are trying to make it seem like the average American has given up a bunch of their rights...and it's just not true. the average american's life has not been changed by the Patriot Act at all.
Average American = white person (well intentioned, intrinsically good, individualistic). Not average American = brown skinned, maybe not a Christian, (not trustworthy, prone to violence, easily susceptible to manipulation).
And the school staff can look through whatever they want. The cops can't after they're told there's not bomb. They shouldn't have even gone to the school to bother.
I feel you only asked for my answers to mock them. If that's not the case, I apologize.
I don't wish to debate this to death, I've said how I feel. Thanks for having an actual conversation with me about it.
And to answer others, yes I agree with torture if it saves innocents. It's happened already (prevention through torture) and I'm willing to be tortured as well if it helps save American lives.
simple question.
where and when?
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
1. Torture didn’t stop a single terrorist attack. “At no time did the CIA’s coercive interrogation techniques lead to the collection of imminent threat intelligence, such as the hypothetical ‘ticking time bomb’ information that many believe was the justification for the use of these techniques.”
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
"(CNN)The CIA's harsh interrogations of terrorist detainees during the Bush era didn't work, were more brutal than previously revealed and delivered no "ticking time bomb" information that prevented an attack, according to an explosive Senate report released Tuesday.
The majority report issued by the Senate Intelligence Committee is a damning condemnation of the tactics -- branded by critics as torture -- the George W. Bush administration deployed in the fear-laden days after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. The techniques, according to the report, were "deeply flawed," poorly managed and often resulted in "fabricated" information."
"(CNN)The CIA's harsh interrogations of terrorist detainees during the Bush era didn't work, were more brutal than previously revealed and delivered no "ticking time bomb" information that prevented an attack, according to an explosive Senate report released Tuesday.
The majority report issued by the Senate Intelligence Committee is a damning condemnation of the tactics -- branded by critics as torture -- the George W. Bush administration deployed in the fear-laden days after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. The techniques, according to the report, were "deeply flawed," poorly managed and often resulted in "fabricated" information."
I live about 25 miles from Irving, TX, where this took place. It's a bedroom community of Dallas, I think maybe 200K people. Lots of local coverage of Ahmed's arrest, as you can imagine. I think one of the more interesting things I've learned is that It's very common for the Irving school district to call the police to intervene on disciplinary matters. The Irving P.D. is scrambling right now to do damage control and stress that he isn't being charged with anything, but the school district stood by their decision to suspend him for 3 days. The principal sent home a letter to parents on the day of the arrest touting how they had averted a possible threat. Now the district is making it known that since Ahmed doesn't want to return to that school, he'll be welcome at one of the other high schools. Even our ultra conservative governor has said that it was an overreach to arrest the boy. I'm curious to see the next events and also hoping this kid soon gets to go back to being a kid.
g under p, thanks for your post. I'm only slightly aware of the contributions to math, science, astronomy, among others, that came out of the Middle East. I know that if it weren't for our system of Arabic numerals, we might all be trying to do long division with Roman numerals.
Thanks Who Princess for your info from down your way. Let's hope he can get back in school to continue his education. Here's Bill Maher's take on all this and I liked what Chris Mathews had to say....
spot on. Maher is correct. and the people complaining would they feel the same way if a muslim kid brought a clock like that into their child's school and the teachers did nothing? clearly the kid shouldn't have been put in handcuffs but the teacher did the right thing.
I don't know why people can't understand this. It's all or nothing in this country. I would hope and pray that if I my kid was in a school and any teacher in the school had even the smallest inclination that there was a bomb that they would say something. And go figure, the Texas authorities fucked it up after
I haven't heard or watched Maher in several years, but I'm kind of surprised to see him take the position of excuse making and sympathy for authority when someone's rights are trampled. He seems like someone who's aware that it's primarily white kids killing people at school, but then saying that 'well of course they're worried because Muslims blow people up' line. I always thought he was more thoughtful than that.
His rights were trampled? Yea. Poor kid.
People willing to give up their rights out of fear is what I have a big issue with.
why? some people rather feel safe than let every person do whatever the hell they want. without rules there is anarchy..
and what can't the average american do today that they would legally do 10-20 years ago? what have we given up when you refer to giving up certain rights?
Interesting question. I came up with: -Be brown and get on a commercial plane without an invasive body search. -Be anybody and get on a commercial plane without a lot of hassle. - Be anonymous -Be brown, black, red or yellow and take a home made clock to school. -Take LSD
well the average american citizen is not brown so uhh try again?
is not taking off your shoes and belt a right? and is it worth complaining about? Before 2001 you still had to go through a metal detector at the airport. it really isn't all that much different.
Oh do I feel old! I remember when there was no metal detectors or security guards, meals were served on flights with real metal silverware, and us kids were given wings to pin on our shirts. We even got to view the cockpit once. On the first flight I ever took, ladies and girls wore dresses, men wore suits and ties and boys wore ties and polished Buster Brown shoes.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I live about 25 miles from Irving, TX, where this took place. It's a bedroom community of Dallas, I think maybe 200K people. Lots of local coverage of Ahmed's arrest, as you can imagine. I think one of the more interesting things I've learned is that It's very common for the Irving school district to call the police to intervene on disciplinary matters. The Irving P.D. is scrambling right now to do damage control and stress that he isn't being charged with anything, but the school district stood by their decision to suspend him for 3 days. The principal sent home a letter to parents on the day of the arrest touting how they had averted a possible threat. Now the district is making it known that since Ahmed doesn't want to return to that school, he'll be welcome at one of the other high schools. Even our ultra conservative governor has said that it was an overreach to arrest the boy. I'm curious to see the next events and also hoping this kid soon gets to go back to being a kid.
g under p, thanks for your post. I'm only slightly aware of the contributions to math, science, astronomy, among others, that came out of the Middle East. I know that if it weren't for our system of Arabic numerals, we might all be trying to do long division with Roman numerals.
Thanks Who Princess for your info from down your way. Let's hope he can get back in school to continue his education. Here's Bill Maher's take on all this and I liked what Chris Mathews had to say....
spot on. Maher is correct. and the people complaining would they feel the same way if a muslim kid brought a clock like that into their child's school and the teachers did nothing? clearly the kid shouldn't have been put in handcuffs but the teacher did the right thing.
I don't know why people can't understand this. It's all or nothing in this country. I would hope and pray that if I my kid was in a school and any teacher in the school had even the smallest inclination that there was a bomb that they would say something. And go figure, the Texas authorities fucked it up after
I haven't heard or watched Maher in several years, but I'm kind of surprised to see him take the position of excuse making and sympathy for authority when someone's rights are trampled. He seems like someone who's aware that it's primarily white kids killing people at school, but then saying that 'well of course they're worried because Muslims blow people up' line. I always thought he was more thoughtful than that.
His rights were trampled? Yea. Poor kid.
People willing to give up their rights out of fear is what I have a big issue with.
why? some people rather feel safe than let every person do whatever the hell they want. without rules there is anarchy..
and what can't the average american do today that they would legally do 10-20 years ago? what have we given up when you refer to giving up certain rights?
Interesting question. I came up with: -Be brown and get on a commercial plane without an invasive body search. -Be anybody and get on a commercial plane without a lot of hassle. - Be anonymous -Be brown, black, red or yellow and take a home made clock to school. -Take LSD
well the average american citizen is not brown so uhh try again?
is not taking off your shoes and belt a right? and is it worth complaining about? Before 2001 you still had to go through a metal detector at the airport. it really isn't all that much different.
Oh do I feel old! I remember when there was no metal detectors or security guards, meals were served on flights with real metal silverware, and us kids were given wings to pin on our shirts. We even got to view the cockpit once. On the first flight I ever took, ladies and girls wore dresses, men wore suits and ties and boys wore ties and polished Buster Brown shoes.
Don't forget it was like a flying ashtray and we were being served by hot chicks in skirts and little hats.aka sky whores
I personally disagree with this. His dad was a known race baiter. He has had multiple incidents where he claimed racism for being Muslim.
I feel he knew exactly how everyone would react to a suitcase "clock" that resembles a suicide bomb more than anything else at all.
I agree he should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent. If the situation were reversed and he did actually bring a bomb, but nothing was done, then the school would have been ridiculed and berated to death over why they didn't do something to stop the situation.
So again, the kid being arrested I fully agree with. They should have brought in the whole family and had homeland security question and interrogate them all. Maybe some torture. Just to get to the root of the problem
Seriously?
Jesus.
I think it is official now, JAG is a troll here with the purpose of riling us. There is no way that is not the case. I wish we could collectively "block" this child, I fear someone with real and valued input (myself included) will be banned for responding to this bridge-dweller.
I didn't realize your $20 membership was more important than mine. Don't worry, I've been bullied, attacked, my religion shit on, and I've yet to flag anything. So feel free to rip me apart, everyone else does and doesn't get in trouble. Seems like the fun new game. Give it a spin.
You just might get that dopamine hit your body craves.
Really? Then who flagged my comment about you being weird? (Just asking a question Kat, NOT calling her weird again)? Because I've been around for a long time and know just about everyone who posts on amt. I don't get along with them all but I'm positive the ones I don't would never flag anything I post.
Oh so now I'm accused of that? I didn't flag a single thing. Weren't you flagged over the photo? And since you bring that up, I didn't even know you were flagged for personally attacking me. But if you didn't, you wouldn't worry about who was flagging what. Right?
It's your own fault that happened for using dead children's photos for your own personal gain.
With that said, I didn't flag your photo or anything else for that matter. I was nowhere near that thread, because I didn't want to be fasley accused of something, yet here it is. Maybe you don't know the people here as well as you think you do. Or maybe it wasn't flagged at all, but you were in trouble for a personal attack?
I don't need links to back up how I feel about things. Google is out there. I saw the info about the dad on a news article. I didn't just make the shit up.
You accuse me of never answering questions, but who's answered mine?? What and how was the school supposed to react to ANYONE (regardless of race) bringing an item that looks like a bomb? That's why this is being diacussed. Not because he brought an item that looked like an fm am radio. It's a briefcase with wires hanging out in the same way a bomb is. What's wrong with the precautions?
And many many many Muslims were tortured under the patriot act in the name of freedom. They were tortured for intelligence on terrorist attacks. A child bringing a device that resembles a bomb should call for the same type of investigation as other potential terrorists, no? Maybe tourting is unchristian, which is why I don't do it. But I'm not against it, for freedom. Maybe they need to get the truth out, how ever necessary, throuhh torture or investigation, who cares? We don't care when it happens at Guantanamo bay. Why should we care if it happens In A school?
And the illuminati?
Pathetic. You accuse me, yet when I tell you you're dead wrong, instead of admitting fault, or, trying to clear the air, you insult me.
And you wonder why people (that aren't me) flagged you
Wait, WHAT? Are you calling me pathetic? Might have to flag that personal comment.
Not you. What you're resorting to is pathetic.
You say I did something that I didn't. When I call it out that you're dead wrong, you insult me. That is what I said was pathetic. Can't even give credit for being wrong about it. Just more insults.
Is here where I throw in a remark about your religion in a snide and condensing matter? That's usually where they are in the posts directed at me
You already have, a few times.
WHERE????? I beg you to show me where I've attacked people's religions. Go ahead, I'll wait. I know I have not. Again good try tho!
Good for the world to criticize religion. This thread is about religion. Many issues on this board are about religion. Realize it challenges your beliefs. Good.
I live about 25 miles from Irving, TX, where this took place. It's a bedroom community of Dallas, I think maybe 200K people. Lots of local coverage of Ahmed's arrest, as you can imagine. I think one of the more interesting things I've learned is that It's very common for the Irving school district to call the police to intervene on disciplinary matters. The Irving P.D. is scrambling right now to do damage control and stress that he isn't being charged with anything, but the school district stood by their decision to suspend him for 3 days. The principal sent home a letter to parents on the day of the arrest touting how they had averted a possible threat. Now the district is making it known that since Ahmed doesn't want to return to that school, he'll be welcome at one of the other high schools. Even our ultra conservative governor has said that it was an overreach to arrest the boy. I'm curious to see the next events and also hoping this kid soon gets to go back to being a kid.
g under p, thanks for your post. I'm only slightly aware of the contributions to math, science, astronomy, among others, that came out of the Middle East. I know that if it weren't for our system of Arabic numerals, we might all be trying to do long division with Roman numerals.
Thanks Who Princess for your info from down your way. Let's hope he can get back in school to continue his education. Here's Bill Maher's take on all this and I liked what Chris Mathews had to say....
spot on. Maher is correct. and the people complaining would they feel the same way if a muslim kid brought a clock like that into their child's school and the teachers did nothing? clearly the kid shouldn't have been put in handcuffs but the teacher did the right thing.
I don't know why people can't understand this. It's all or nothing in this country. I would hope and pray that if I my kid was in a school and any teacher in the school had even the smallest inclination that there was a bomb that they would say something. And go figure, the Texas authorities fucked it up after
I haven't heard or watched Maher in several years, but I'm kind of surprised to see him take the position of excuse making and sympathy for authority when someone's rights are trampled. He seems like someone who's aware that it's primarily white kids killing people at school, but then saying that 'well of course they're worried because Muslims blow people up' line. I always thought he was more thoughtful than that.
His rights were trampled? Yea. Poor kid.
People willing to give up their rights out of fear is what I have a big issue with.
why? some people rather feel safe than let every person do whatever the hell they want. without rules there is anarchy..
and what can't the average american do today that they would legally do 10-20 years ago? what have we given up when you refer to giving up certain rights?
Interesting question. I came up with: -Be brown and get on a commercial plane without an invasive body search. -Be anybody and get on a commercial plane without a lot of hassle. - Be anonymous -Be brown, black, red or yellow and take a home made clock to school. -Take LSD
well the average american citizen is not brown so uhh try again?
is not taking off your shoes and belt a right? and is it worth complaining about? Before 2001 you still had to go through a metal detector at the airport. it really isn't all that much different.
Oh do I feel old! I remember when there was no metal detectors or security guards, meals were served on flights with real metal silverware, and us kids were given wings to pin on our shirts. We even got to view the cockpit once. On the first flight I ever took, ladies and girls wore dresses, men wore suits and ties and boys wore ties and polished Buster Brown shoes.
What's next grandpa? You going to tell us about when music came from round plastic things? Or how the phone was attached to the wall? Or when there was only 5 tv channels??
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Sorry RR, couldn't disagree with you more. It NEVER works. Let me water board you for 2 mins and you'll tell me anything I want to hear or anything I can make up to get you to stop. It NEVER works and studies have shown.
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
More I believe BS when the evidence shows otherwise. It's becoming an epidemic on the AMT
We have known for decades that the information we get out of torture is unreliable and unhelpful. Worse yet, torture interferes with other methods that may have a better chance at yielding useful information. Those who advocate torture as a means of obtaining intelligence have either not informed themselves of the research on this, or are simply cloaking a desire for revenge in apparently more respectable motives.
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Sorry RR, couldn't disagree with you more. It NEVER works. Let me water board you for 2 mins and you'll tell me anything I want to hear or anything I can make up to get you to stop. It NEVER works and studies have shown.
studies ???? rr hit the nail on the head, we will never know what happens during interrogations only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks and most likely be cause of those interrogations.
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Sorry RR, couldn't disagree with you more. It NEVER works. Let me water board you for 2 mins and you'll tell me anything I want to hear or anything I can make up to get you to stop. It NEVER works and studies have shown.
studies ???? rr hit the nail on the head, we will never know what happens during interrogations only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks and most likely be cause of those interrogations.
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Sorry RR, couldn't disagree with you more. It NEVER works. Let me water board you for 2 mins and you'll tell me anything I want to hear or anything I can make up to get you to stop. It NEVER works and studies have shown.
studies ???? rr hit the nail on the head, we will never know what happens during interrogations only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks and most likely be cause of those interrogations.
Godfather.
We know a fair amount about what happens during interrogation by torture. We know they don't work (see above). How do you know "only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks"?
Edit: clarification that I meant specifically torture, not any interrogation
Post edited by oftenreading on
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Sorry RR, couldn't disagree with you more. It NEVER works. Let me water board you for 2 mins and you'll tell me anything I want to hear or anything I can make up to get you to stop. It NEVER works and studies have shown.
studies ???? rr hit the nail on the head, we will never know what happens during interrogations only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks and most likely be cause of those interrogations.
Godfather.
We know a fair amount about what happens during interrogations. We know they don't work (see above). How do you know "only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks"?
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Sorry RR, couldn't disagree with you more. It NEVER works. Let me water board you for 2 mins and you'll tell me anything I want to hear or anything I can make up to get you to stop. It NEVER works and studies have shown.
studies ???? rr hit the nail on the head, we will never know what happens during interrogations only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks and most likely be cause of those interrogations.
Godfather.
We know a fair amount about what happens during interrogation by torture. We know they don't work (see above). How do you know "only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks"?
Edit: clarification that I meant specifically torture, not any interrogation
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Sorry RR, couldn't disagree with you more. It NEVER works. Let me water board you for 2 mins and you'll tell me anything I want to hear or anything I can make up to get you to stop. It NEVER works and studies have shown.
studies ???? rr hit the nail on the head, we will never know what happens during interrogations only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks and most likely be cause of those interrogations.
Godfather.
We know a fair amount about what happens during interrogations. We know they don't work (see above). How do you know "only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks"?
the only source any of us have.......the news.
Godfather.
Ah. Well, there's your problem right there.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Sorry RR, couldn't disagree with you more. It NEVER works. Let me water board you for 2 mins and you'll tell me anything I want to hear or anything I can make up to get you to stop. It NEVER works and studies have shown.
studies ???? rr hit the nail on the head, we will never know what happens during interrogations only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks and most likely be cause of those interrogations.
Godfather.
We know a fair amount about what happens during interrogations. We know they don't work (see above). How do you know "only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks"?
Gimme,I disagree. I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations. I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Sorry RR, couldn't disagree with you more. It NEVER works. Let me water board you for 2 mins and you'll tell me anything I want to hear or anything I can make up to get you to stop. It NEVER works and studies have shown.
studies ???? rr hit the nail on the head, we will never know what happens during interrogations only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks and most likely be cause of those interrogations.
Godfather.
We know a fair amount about what happens during interrogations. We know they don't work (see above). How do you know "only that we have avoided many terrorist attacks"?
the only source any of us have.......the news.
Godfather.
Ah. Well, there's your problem right there.
where does your info come from ?
Godfather.
News, science, logic and an educated mind. Where does yours come from?
Comments
Torture is wrong god or not.
So why do you need to follow with statements about God?
Good for the goose is good for the gander lol
damit
Why is my question ridiculous? The clock doesn't look like a bomb to me. More like a briefcase with a circuit board and wires hanging out of it. I've seen a couple of different photos of the alleged bomb and they are vastly different. Neither had anything that appeared to be an accelerant, plastique, blasting caps or dynamite or anything I would consider bomb material to go boom.
What rules were changed? The US Constitution? Interpretation of same by the courts? Lower, circuit or supreme?
All of the experts who have testified, written about or spoken of the effectiveness of torture at gitmo have said the same thing, that it was ineffective and did not contribute to preventing acts of terrorism. Where or what is your source that it prevented more than one act of terrorism?
You previously asked what the school should have done in this instance. They should have done what the other 7 or 8 schools confronted with kids who brought home made clocks to school. Nothing. Even for the kid in Colorado who brought an actual inert bomb to the science fair and the other kid who made a clock or maybe it was the bomb instance, that had diesel fuel and fertilizer in it. Again, nothing. Google the Gawker article and maybe I'll post it later.
What was the problem with the tone of my post?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I don't wish to debate this to death, I've said how I feel. Thanks for having an actual conversation with me about it.
And to answer others, yes I agree with torture if it saves innocents. It's happened already (prevention through torture) and I'm willing to be tortured as well if it helps save American lives.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
JAG, to show you I'm not talking shit. I'll post something about them. Where did they land the planes that had the coke in them from Nicaragua? And who was the governor at the time? Arkansas and Bill Clinton. Who became 2 time president for it? You guessed it. See, I too know about them. I just took what I read differently then you did.
And the school staff can look through whatever they want. The cops can't after they're told there's not bomb. They shouldn't have even gone to the school to bother.
where and when?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/12/09/3601209/cia-torture-report-findings/
1. Torture didn’t stop a single terrorist attack. “At no time did the CIA’s coercive interrogation techniques lead to the collection of imminent threat intelligence, such as the hypothetical ‘ticking time bomb’ information that many believe was the justification for the use of these techniques.”
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
The majority report issued by the Senate Intelligence Committee is a damning condemnation of the tactics -- branded by critics as torture -- the George W. Bush administration deployed in the fear-laden days after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. The techniques, according to the report, were "deeply flawed," poorly managed and often resulted in "fabricated" information."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/cia-torture-report/
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I think that "torture" or physical questioning has on many occasions provided working Intel.Not a lot would be made public.But you can bet your ass,not only within active hot zones ,but also all through all the placesblack ops conduct clandestine operations.
I've never been one to advocate for cruelty,but I do think there is a time and place where it becomes a necessity.Sad truth.It happens a lot more then any of us hear about.
Just a couple of links on this:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/peteraldhous/torture-doesnt-work
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/8833108/Torture-is-not-wrong-it-just-doesnt-work-says-former-interrogator.html
Godfather.
Edit: clarification that I meant specifically torture, not any interrogation
Godfather.
Godfather.