The right to bear arms
Comments
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Been there, done that. Do your own research.mace1229 said:
I haven't seen you go through itHalifax2TheMax said:
“Didn’t have time.”Go Beavers said:
Dis you see how big the list is? There’s 27 entries just for this year.mace1229 said:
Just went through the top of this list:Go Beavers said:
You’re looking at the broader label of mass shootings and concluding all the motives are the same. Gang violence is not in the same boat as violence perpetuated by someone who decides they’re going to kill random people in public in response to a trigger event. The latter category is disproportionately done by whites.mace1229 said:
Not any more than the percentage they make up the population. If you're going to blame a race for something, I would assume you factor in population. Of course LA has more homicides than Bakersfield. But compare the population of the 2 and Bakersfield is worse.Merkin Baller said:
You complained that the comment was implying that white people are at fault more often.mace1229 said:
Whites make up about 75% of the country, but less than 75% of mass shootings.Merkin Baller said:
The link you provided confirms white people are at fault more often than not.mace1229 said:
None of that seems to have anything to do with my comment though.mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Yes, its been said before that mass shootings is a white person's problem.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Moving the goal posts to fit a narrative then is what I'd call that.mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
I always see these comments after a shooting. But the data doesn't back it up Mass shootings are not a "white" problem, but it is typically portrayed as one.Gern Blansten said:
Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic.Gern Blansten said:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/
Using the FBI definition of a mass shooting of 3 fatalities or more, only 58% are from white shooters.
The number doesn't change by a lot using a different definition.
parse out the gang affiliated shooting from that. what do those numbers look like then?to start, mace inferred that Gern was saying all mass shootings are white guys. he didnt say that.2. breaking down the types of mass shootings are moving the goal posts? Given most of the white guy mass shootings used legal weapons or by those with access to same and most gang mass shootings use illegal guns , I think that becomes an important distinction between the two.so please explain how you see it as moving the goal posts.
I interpreted Gern's comment of "Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic." as implying the same thing. If not, then I apologize to Gern for misunderstanding his comment.
And yes, excluding an entire population so that it fits a narrative is exactly that, moving the goal posts. You either agree or not that it's mostly a white problem. If you look at the data, you'd say it's not. If you listen to comments of "another white guy..." and ignore the data, or cherry pick it, then you'd probably say it is.
Why exclude anyone? Why not exclude angry white guys then, and claim they are zero percent of the problem?a variety of problems to address.First we'll go with the illegal gun flow that begin as legal purchases. big problem, no? Seems there are simple things to address this, BUT NRA beholden politicians that pander to a subset of Americans looking at only half of the amendment that grants that right.Second lets address the disaffected white guy with access to legal guns. This LV shooting in particular, a PROFESSOR got butthurt he didnt get a job there. Now the PD searched his apt. in Henderson. Feels like a sense of entitlement here. So it begs a couple questions, why in the fuck do you move across the country without employment in your chosen field? He left a university in NC. IDK enough of this part to i.e. why he left NC, under what circumstances, when, how long in LV, etc to really comment but on the surface wtf. Cops arent saying type of weapon, but I wonder when purchased etc.doing nothing isn't tenable imo.UNLESS you specifically and politicians and others of like mind EXPLICITLY STATE the needless death is acceptable to maintain the Government granted Right.
I was responding specifically to calling out whites. Why bring race into it if that wasn't the point? So, sounds like the comment was implying white people are at fault more often.
I provided data to support the claim that race is not a factor in mass shootings, it's an all races problem. You said it is, as long as we ignore the gang data. You can't just ignore entire populations to fit your narrative. None of what you just posted has anything to do with that.
They are.
With that logic, for you to admit there is say an Asian crime problem, Asian crime would have to rise to 51% of the overall crime? That makes no sense.
Blaming white people for mass shootings doesn't make sense either when they make up more than 70% of the population, but less than 60% of the shootings. So why bring race into it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
I skipped the ones that were targeted, they were not random like you said. I didn't have time to go through the whole list, but out of the first 16 random shooters on this list, 10 of them were not white (4 of them were one single incident "working" together).
Some people focus on race when its a white guy, and ignore it when its not. I'm not convinced the angry random shooter is mostly white.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Considering the way our country responded to it's first ever black president, I'm going to go ahead and disagree wholeheartedly that white people aren't a problem.mace1229 said:
I think I understand what you're saying, and I agree that at face value there is nothing wrong with calling a mass shooter pathetic and referring to him by his race. But it's not inferring when Gern confirms that's what he meant.Merkin Baller said:
It's a factual statement. There's nothing wrong with it.mace1229 said:
It is only because it implies whites ar more to blame, when they are not. Why keep bringing race into it?Merkin Baller said:
There's nothing wrong with this comment.Gern Blansten said:
Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic.Gern Blansten said:
You can infer all you want, that's how infer and imply work.
And nothing against Gern, because every time it is a white guy that seems to be a focus. But whits are no more responsible for mass shootings than any other group.
Do we say whites are horrible drivers because they make up 70% of car accidents? No, they make up 70% of the population so it makes sense they are involved in 70% of accidents. But when they make up 58% of mass shootings, they are more at fault?
Race is not a factor, we don't need to keep bringing race into it.
Guns are a problem. Access to guns is a problem. White people are not.
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Again, that is because they make up 71% of the population. They don't commit more mass shootings than their percentage of the population. Therefore it is not a white problem.Gern Blansten said:
I didn't find this exact article, but according to Newsweek that committee 54% of mass shootings while making up 71% of the population.
https://www.newsweek.com/white-men-have-committed-more-mass-shootings-any-other-group-675602
If you ignore population, then you're ignoring a huge part of the statistic that makes it relevant.0 -
If you ignore the total population, then you must be arguing Jewish hate crime isn't a problem. Despite Jews being victims of 7% of hate crimes, they only make up 2% of the population. But still, only 7% of hate crimes are against Jews, so there must not be a problem then?0
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Go Beavers said:
Dis you see how big the list is? There’s 27 entries just for this year.mace1229 said:
Just went through the top of this list:Go Beavers said:
You’re looking at the broader label of mass shootings and concluding all the motives are the same. Gang violence is not in the same boat as violence perpetuated by someone who decides they’re going to kill random people in public in response to a trigger event. The latter category is disproportionately done by whites.mace1229 said:
Not any more than the percentage they make up the population. If you're going to blame a race for something, I would assume you factor in population. Of course LA has more homicides than Bakersfield. But compare the population of the 2 and Bakersfield is worse.Merkin Baller said:
You complained that the comment was implying that white people are at fault more often.mace1229 said:
Whites make up about 75% of the country, but less than 75% of mass shootings.Merkin Baller said:
The link you provided confirms white people are at fault more often than not.mace1229 said:
None of that seems to have anything to do with my comment though.mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Yes, its been said before that mass shootings is a white person's problem.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Moving the goal posts to fit a narrative then is what I'd call that.mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
I always see these comments after a shooting. But the data doesn't back it up Mass shootings are not a "white" problem, but it is typically portrayed as one.Gern Blansten said:
Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic.Gern Blansten said:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/
Using the FBI definition of a mass shooting of 3 fatalities or more, only 58% are from white shooters.
The number doesn't change by a lot using a different definition.
parse out the gang affiliated shooting from that. what do those numbers look like then?to start, mace inferred that Gern was saying all mass shootings are white guys. he didnt say that.2. breaking down the types of mass shootings are moving the goal posts? Given most of the white guy mass shootings used legal weapons or by those with access to same and most gang mass shootings use illegal guns , I think that becomes an important distinction between the two.so please explain how you see it as moving the goal posts.
I interpreted Gern's comment of "Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic." as implying the same thing. If not, then I apologize to Gern for misunderstanding his comment.
And yes, excluding an entire population so that it fits a narrative is exactly that, moving the goal posts. You either agree or not that it's mostly a white problem. If you look at the data, you'd say it's not. If you listen to comments of "another white guy..." and ignore the data, or cherry pick it, then you'd probably say it is.
Why exclude anyone? Why not exclude angry white guys then, and claim they are zero percent of the problem?a variety of problems to address.First we'll go with the illegal gun flow that begin as legal purchases. big problem, no? Seems there are simple things to address this, BUT NRA beholden politicians that pander to a subset of Americans looking at only half of the amendment that grants that right.Second lets address the disaffected white guy with access to legal guns. This LV shooting in particular, a PROFESSOR got butthurt he didnt get a job there. Now the PD searched his apt. in Henderson. Feels like a sense of entitlement here. So it begs a couple questions, why in the fuck do you move across the country without employment in your chosen field? He left a university in NC. IDK enough of this part to i.e. why he left NC, under what circumstances, when, how long in LV, etc to really comment but on the surface wtf. Cops arent saying type of weapon, but I wonder when purchased etc.doing nothing isn't tenable imo.UNLESS you specifically and politicians and others of like mind EXPLICITLY STATE the needless death is acceptable to maintain the Government granted Right.
I was responding specifically to calling out whites. Why bring race into it if that wasn't the point? So, sounds like the comment was implying white people are at fault more often.
I provided data to support the claim that race is not a factor in mass shootings, it's an all races problem. You said it is, as long as we ignore the gang data. You can't just ignore entire populations to fit your narrative. None of what you just posted has anything to do with that.
They are.
With that logic, for you to admit there is say an Asian crime problem, Asian crime would have to rise to 51% of the overall crime? That makes no sense.
Blaming white people for mass shootings doesn't make sense either when they make up more than 70% of the population, but less than 60% of the shootings. So why bring race into it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
I skipped the ones that were targeted, they were not random like you said. I didn't have time to go through the whole list, but out of the first 16 random shooters on this list, 10 of them were not white (4 of them were one single incident "working" together).
Some people focus on race when its a white guy, and ignore it when its not. I'm not convinced the angry random shooter is mostly white.
think we are up to 40 now?
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Depends on the definition used. But if you expand the list on the wikipedia link, they used the definition of 4 or more people shot, and the list is well over 100.mickeyrat said:Go Beavers said:
Dis you see how big the list is? There’s 27 entries just for this year.mace1229 said:
Just went through the top of this list:Go Beavers said:
You’re looking at the broader label of mass shootings and concluding all the motives are the same. Gang violence is not in the same boat as violence perpetuated by someone who decides they’re going to kill random people in public in response to a trigger event. The latter category is disproportionately done by whites.mace1229 said:
Not any more than the percentage they make up the population. If you're going to blame a race for something, I would assume you factor in population. Of course LA has more homicides than Bakersfield. But compare the population of the 2 and Bakersfield is worse.Merkin Baller said:
You complained that the comment was implying that white people are at fault more often.mace1229 said:
Whites make up about 75% of the country, but less than 75% of mass shootings.Merkin Baller said:
The link you provided confirms white people are at fault more often than not.mace1229 said:
None of that seems to have anything to do with my comment though.mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Yes, its been said before that mass shootings is a white person's problem.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Moving the goal posts to fit a narrative then is what I'd call that.mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
I always see these comments after a shooting. But the data doesn't back it up Mass shootings are not a "white" problem, but it is typically portrayed as one.Gern Blansten said:
Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic.Gern Blansten said:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/
Using the FBI definition of a mass shooting of 3 fatalities or more, only 58% are from white shooters.
The number doesn't change by a lot using a different definition.
parse out the gang affiliated shooting from that. what do those numbers look like then?to start, mace inferred that Gern was saying all mass shootings are white guys. he didnt say that.2. breaking down the types of mass shootings are moving the goal posts? Given most of the white guy mass shootings used legal weapons or by those with access to same and most gang mass shootings use illegal guns , I think that becomes an important distinction between the two.so please explain how you see it as moving the goal posts.
I interpreted Gern's comment of "Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic." as implying the same thing. If not, then I apologize to Gern for misunderstanding his comment.
And yes, excluding an entire population so that it fits a narrative is exactly that, moving the goal posts. You either agree or not that it's mostly a white problem. If you look at the data, you'd say it's not. If you listen to comments of "another white guy..." and ignore the data, or cherry pick it, then you'd probably say it is.
Why exclude anyone? Why not exclude angry white guys then, and claim they are zero percent of the problem?a variety of problems to address.First we'll go with the illegal gun flow that begin as legal purchases. big problem, no? Seems there are simple things to address this, BUT NRA beholden politicians that pander to a subset of Americans looking at only half of the amendment that grants that right.Second lets address the disaffected white guy with access to legal guns. This LV shooting in particular, a PROFESSOR got butthurt he didnt get a job there. Now the PD searched his apt. in Henderson. Feels like a sense of entitlement here. So it begs a couple questions, why in the fuck do you move across the country without employment in your chosen field? He left a university in NC. IDK enough of this part to i.e. why he left NC, under what circumstances, when, how long in LV, etc to really comment but on the surface wtf. Cops arent saying type of weapon, but I wonder when purchased etc.doing nothing isn't tenable imo.UNLESS you specifically and politicians and others of like mind EXPLICITLY STATE the needless death is acceptable to maintain the Government granted Right.
I was responding specifically to calling out whites. Why bring race into it if that wasn't the point? So, sounds like the comment was implying white people are at fault more often.
I provided data to support the claim that race is not a factor in mass shootings, it's an all races problem. You said it is, as long as we ignore the gang data. You can't just ignore entire populations to fit your narrative. None of what you just posted has anything to do with that.
They are.
With that logic, for you to admit there is say an Asian crime problem, Asian crime would have to rise to 51% of the overall crime? That makes no sense.
Blaming white people for mass shootings doesn't make sense either when they make up more than 70% of the population, but less than 60% of the shootings. So why bring race into it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
I skipped the ones that were targeted, they were not random like you said. I didn't have time to go through the whole list, but out of the first 16 random shooters on this list, 10 of them were not white (4 of them were one single incident "working" together).
Some people focus on race when its a white guy, and ignore it when its not. I'm not convinced the angry random shooter is mostly white.
think we are up to 40 now?0 -
https://apnews.com/article/oxford-michigan-school-shooting-ethan-crumbley-sentencing-fb10065053ca542b0d443671bab53947 Michigan teen gets life in prison for Oxford High School attackMichigan teen gets life in prison for Oxford High School attackBy ED WHITE and COREY WILLIAMSToday
PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — A judge sentenced a Michigan teenager to life in prison Friday for killing four students and terrorizing others at Oxford High School, after listening to hours of gripping anguish from parents and wounded survivors.
Judge Kwame Rowe rejected pleas from defense lawyers for a shorter sentence and ensured that Ethan Crumbley, 17, will not get an opportunity for parole.
Moments before learning his fate, the teen apologized and appeared to agree with his victims that the stiffest punishment was appropriate.
“Any sentence that they ask for, I ask that you do impose it on me,” the shooter said. “I want them to be happy, and I want them to feel secure and safe. I do not want them to worry another day. I really am sorry for what I’ve done. ... But I can try my best in the future to help other people, and that is what I will do.”
Life sentences for teenagers are rare in Michigan since the U.S. Supreme Court and the state’s highest court said the acts of minors must be viewed differently than the crimes of adults. But Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald said a no-parole order fit the Oxford case.
“It’s not a moment to celebrate," McDonald said outside court. "It’s tragic. And the voices today, I think, profoundly show that.”
Indeed, Rowe’s decision followed deeply emotional remarks by families of the deceased and survivors who said the tragedy had irreparably turned their lives upside down.
Crumbley, who was 15 when he committed the shooting, pleaded guilty to first-degree murder and terrorism. He brought a gun to school, but his backpack was never checked, even after his parents were summoned that same day about their son's drawings, which included a gun and words: “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.”
“I am a really bad person. I’ve done terrible things,” Crumbley said in court Friday.
The judge said the shooting was planned well in advance, and he noted that the shooter had plenty of time to stop as he walked through school.
Rowe was especially troubled by how victim Hana St. Juliana was repeatedly shot and that another, Justin Shilling, was shot at point-blank range in a bathroom while another student was forced to watch. He described it as “execution” and “torture.”
“The court cannot ignore the deep trauma caused to the state of Michigan and the Oxford community,” the judge said.
Earlier, Rowe allowed a framed photo of Tate Myre to be placed near him while the slain teen's father spoke.
“We are miserable. We miss Tate,” Buck Myre said. “Our family has a permanent hole in it that can never be fixed — ever.”
Nicole Beausoleil recalled seeing the body of her daughter, Madisyn Baldwin, at the medical examiner's office, her hand with blue-painted fingernails sticking out from a covering.
“I looked though the glass. My scream should have shattered it,” Beausoleil said.
Shilling's mother, Jill Soave, told the shooter that he executed a boy who could have helped him navigate awkward teenage years.
“If you were that lonely, that miserable and lost, and you really needed a friend, Justin would have been your friend — if only you had asked,” Soave said.
Kylie Ossege explained how she had urged St. Juliana a “thousand times” to keep breathing while they waited for help on a blood-soaked carpet. Her classmate died.
Ossege, now a college student, was shot and continues to struggle with daily pain from spinal injuries.
“Being able to swing a leg over my horse is my therapy. It is pure joy,” she said of Blaze. “I have not been able to do it for two years.”
Crumbley's defense team urged the judge to give him a chance to turn his life around and become eligible for parole. A court-appointed guardian, lawyer Deborah McKelvy, said the teen was not the same person, two years after the murders.
“He is a bright young man,” she told the judge. “He is an artist. He is a historian. There are days I have been oblivious sitting in a cell for three hours just talking to him. His life is salvageable.”
Defense lawyer Paulette Michel Loftin said Crumbley has improved with medication and mental health care.
“He is remorseful. He has been able to keep out the dark voices and thoughts,” Loftin said.
But victims weren't impressed.
"There can be no rehabilitation,” St. Juliana's father, Steve St. Juliana, told the judge. “There is absolutely nothing the defendant can do to earn my forgiveness. His age plays no part.”
In a journal, the shooter wrote about his desire to watch students suffer and the likelihood that he would spend his life in prison. He made a video on the eve of the shooting, declaring what he would do the next day.
Linda Watson said her son Aiden, who was shot in the leg, still doesn't go to school for a full day. She recalled the family staying in a hotel because a nail gun being used in her neighborhood sounded like a real gun to him.
“Aiden will be dealing with this for the rest of his life. ... This shooter — this monster — should have to feel everything hard and painful for the rest of his life," Watson said.
Meanwhile, parents Jennifer and James Crumbley are locked up in the county jail. They are awaiting trial on involuntary manslaughter charges, accused of making a gun accessible at home and neglecting their son's mental health.
The shooting happened in Oxford Township, about 40 miles (60 kilometers) north of Detroit. Besides the four students who were killed, six more students and a teacher also were wounded.
The Oxford school district hired an outside group to conduct an independent investigation. A report released in October said “missteps at each level” — school board, administrators, staff — contributed to the tragedy.
Crumbley's behavior in class, including looking at a shooting video and gun ammunition on his phone, should have identified him as a “potential threat of violence,” the report said.
___
Follow Ed White at http://twitter.com/edwritez
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Crazy thing is that the shooter in my city is out now. Why? No one died.mickeyrat said:https://apnews.com/article/oxford-michigan-school-shooting-ethan-crumbley-sentencing-fb10065053ca542b0d443671bab53947 Michigan teen gets life in prison for Oxford High School attackMichigan teen gets life in prison for Oxford High School attackBy ED WHITE and COREY WILLIAMSTodayPONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — A judge sentenced a Michigan teenager to life in prison Friday for killing four students and terrorizing others at Oxford High School, after listening to hours of gripping anguish from parents and wounded survivors.
Judge Kwame Rowe rejected pleas from defense lawyers for a shorter sentence and ensured that Ethan Crumbley, 17, will not get an opportunity for parole.
Moments before learning his fate, the teen apologized and appeared to agree with his victims that the stiffest punishment was appropriate.
“Any sentence that they ask for, I ask that you do impose it on me,” the shooter said. “I want them to be happy, and I want them to feel secure and safe. I do not want them to worry another day. I really am sorry for what I’ve done. ... But I can try my best in the future to help other people, and that is what I will do.”
Life sentences for teenagers are rare in Michigan since the U.S. Supreme Court and the state’s highest court said the acts of minors must be viewed differently than the crimes of adults. But Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald said a no-parole order fit the Oxford case.
“It’s not a moment to celebrate," McDonald said outside court. "It’s tragic. And the voices today, I think, profoundly show that.”
Indeed, Rowe’s decision followed deeply emotional remarks by families of the deceased and survivors who said the tragedy had irreparably turned their lives upside down.
Crumbley, who was 15 when he committed the shooting, pleaded guilty to first-degree murder and terrorism. He brought a gun to school, but his backpack was never checked, even after his parents were summoned that same day about their son's drawings, which included a gun and words: “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.”
“I am a really bad person. I’ve done terrible things,” Crumbley said in court Friday.
The judge said the shooting was planned well in advance, and he noted that the shooter had plenty of time to stop as he walked through school.
Rowe was especially troubled by how victim Hana St. Juliana was repeatedly shot and that another, Justin Shilling, was shot at point-blank range in a bathroom while another student was forced to watch. He described it as “execution” and “torture.”
“The court cannot ignore the deep trauma caused to the state of Michigan and the Oxford community,” the judge said.
Earlier, Rowe allowed a framed photo of Tate Myre to be placed near him while the slain teen's father spoke.
“We are miserable. We miss Tate,” Buck Myre said. “Our family has a permanent hole in it that can never be fixed — ever.”
Nicole Beausoleil recalled seeing the body of her daughter, Madisyn Baldwin, at the medical examiner's office, her hand with blue-painted fingernails sticking out from a covering.
“I looked though the glass. My scream should have shattered it,” Beausoleil said.
Shilling's mother, Jill Soave, told the shooter that he executed a boy who could have helped him navigate awkward teenage years.
“If you were that lonely, that miserable and lost, and you really needed a friend, Justin would have been your friend — if only you had asked,” Soave said.
Kylie Ossege explained how she had urged St. Juliana a “thousand times” to keep breathing while they waited for help on a blood-soaked carpet. Her classmate died.
Ossege, now a college student, was shot and continues to struggle with daily pain from spinal injuries.
“Being able to swing a leg over my horse is my therapy. It is pure joy,” she said of Blaze. “I have not been able to do it for two years.”
Crumbley's defense team urged the judge to give him a chance to turn his life around and become eligible for parole. A court-appointed guardian, lawyer Deborah McKelvy, said the teen was not the same person, two years after the murders.
“He is a bright young man,” she told the judge. “He is an artist. He is a historian. There are days I have been oblivious sitting in a cell for three hours just talking to him. His life is salvageable.”
Defense lawyer Paulette Michel Loftin said Crumbley has improved with medication and mental health care.
“He is remorseful. He has been able to keep out the dark voices and thoughts,” Loftin said.
But victims weren't impressed.
"There can be no rehabilitation,” St. Juliana's father, Steve St. Juliana, told the judge. “There is absolutely nothing the defendant can do to earn my forgiveness. His age plays no part.”
In a journal, the shooter wrote about his desire to watch students suffer and the likelihood that he would spend his life in prison. He made a video on the eve of the shooting, declaring what he would do the next day.
Linda Watson said her son Aiden, who was shot in the leg, still doesn't go to school for a full day. She recalled the family staying in a hotel because a nail gun being used in her neighborhood sounded like a real gun to him.
“Aiden will be dealing with this for the rest of his life. ... This shooter — this monster — should have to feel everything hard and painful for the rest of his life," Watson said.
Meanwhile, parents Jennifer and James Crumbley are locked up in the county jail. They are awaiting trial on involuntary manslaughter charges, accused of making a gun accessible at home and neglecting their son's mental health.
The shooting happened in Oxford Township, about 40 miles (60 kilometers) north of Detroit. Besides the four students who were killed, six more students and a teacher also were wounded.
The Oxford school district hired an outside group to conduct an independent investigation. A report released in October said “missteps at each level” — school board, administrators, staff — contributed to the tragedy.
Crumbley's behavior in class, including looking at a shooting video and gun ammunition on his phone, should have identified him as a “potential threat of violence,” the report said.
___
Follow Ed White at http://twitter.com/edwritez
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/noblesville/2023/10/04/noblesville-west-middle-school-shooter-released-juvenile-detention-gps-monitoring-parents/71057809007/
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
Yes, its been said before that mass shootings is a white person's problem.mickeyrat said:tempo_n_groove said:
Moving the goal posts to fit a narrative then is what I'd call that.mickeyrat said:mace1229 said:
I always see these comments after a shooting. But the data doesn't back it up Mass shootings are not a "white" problem, but it is typically portrayed as one.Gern Blansten said:
Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic.Gern Blansten said:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/
Using the FBI definition of a mass shooting of 3 fatalities or more, only 58% are from white shooters.
The number doesn't change by a lot using a different definition.
parse out the gang affiliated shooting from that. what do those numbers look like then?to start, mace inferred that Gern was saying all mass shootings are white guys. he didnt say that.2. breaking down the types of mass shootings are moving the goal posts? Given most of the white guy mass shootings used legal weapons or by those with access to same and most gang mass shootings use illegal guns , I think that becomes an important distinction between the two.so please explain how you see it as moving the goal posts.
I interpreted Gern's comment of "Another white guy who had been "wronged" who takes it out on society. Pathetic." as implying the same thing. If not, then I apologize to Gern for misunderstanding his comment.
And yes, excluding an entire population so that it fits a narrative is exactly that, moving the goal posts. You either agree or not that it's mostly a white problem. If you look at the data, you'd say it's not. If you listen to comments of "another white guy..." and ignore the data, or cherry pick it, then you'd probably say it is.
Why exclude anyone? Why not exclude angry white guys then, and claim they are zero percent of the problem?a variety of problems to address.First we'll go with the illegal gun flow that begin as legal purchases. big problem, no? Seems there are simple things to address this, BUT NRA beholden politicians that pander to a subset of Americans looking at only half of the amendment that grants that right.Second lets address the disaffected white guy with access to legal guns. This LV shooting in particular, a PROFESSOR got butthurt he didnt get a job there. Now the PD searched his apt. in Henderson. Feels like a sense of entitlement here. So it begs a couple questions, why in the fuck do you move across the country without employment in your chosen field? He left a university in NC. IDK enough of this part to i.e. why he left NC, under what circumstances, when, how long in LV, etc to really comment but on the surface wtf. Cops arent saying type of weapon, but I wonder when purchased etc.doing nothing isn't tenable imo.UNLESS you specifically and politicians and others of like mind EXPLICITLY STATE the needless death is acceptable to maintain the Government granted Right.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
This is America, guns are the solution to everything.Gern Blansten said:
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?0 -
Even too many doors?Merkin Baller said:
This is America, guns are the solution to everything.Gern Blansten said:
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing?Halifax2TheMax said:
Even too many doors?Merkin Baller said:
This is America, guns are the solution to everything.Gern Blansten said:
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?0 -
Well, they should be full damn full of holes.Merkin Baller said:
It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing?Halifax2TheMax said:
Even too many doors?Merkin Baller said:
This is America, guns are the solution to everything.Gern Blansten said:
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Holes in doors will make it easier for you to shoot people through them.Halifax2TheMax said:
Well, they should be full damn full of holes.Merkin Baller said:
It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing?Halifax2TheMax said:
Even too many doors?Merkin Baller said:
This is America, guns are the solution to everything.Gern Blansten said:
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
That's a big win for America.0 -
I thought it was so you could see the bad guys with guns coming and when there were no bad guys, easier to close? Less resistance?Merkin Baller said:
Holes in doors will make it easier for you to shoot people through them.Halifax2TheMax said:
Well, they should be full damn full of holes.Merkin Baller said:
It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing?Halifax2TheMax said:
Even too many doors?Merkin Baller said:
This is America, guns are the solution to everything.Gern Blansten said:
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
That's a big win for America.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Halifax2TheMax said:
I thought it was so you could see the bad guys with guns coming and when there were no bad guys, easier to close? Less resistance?Merkin Baller said:
Holes in doors will make it easier for you to shoot people through them.Halifax2TheMax said:
Well, they should be full damn full of holes.Merkin Baller said:
It depends... are the doors merely open carrying, or are they brandishing?Halifax2TheMax said:
Even too many doors?Merkin Baller said:
This is America, guns are the solution to everything.Gern Blansten said:
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?
That's a big win for America.
0 -
Or that Jews are bad?Gern Blansten said:
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?0 -
Isn't Ohio a hotbed for alt rights?mace1229 said:
Or that Jews are bad?Gern Blansten said:
I wonder where he learned that guns are a solution?0
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