Knowing what you know now would you still support the withdrawal of troops from Iraq

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Comments

  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    The Us should not be involved. So yes.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Candid answers appreciated. I tend to go with the Robert Gates position. Good analysis on Libya as well.

    https://youtu.be/Fmg9MHsZfHI
  • InHiding80
    InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    callen said:

    BS44325 said:

    josevolution said:

    How about knowing that if asshat Chaney & bush didn't push for that war we could of saved 4thousand Amrrican lives , how about we come to terms with that 1st

    Why can't we come to terms with both?
    Like blaming the surgeon for the actions if the shooter
    Blame Ben Carson!

    He voted nay on veteran's aid so fuck that chickenhawk anyways.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    BS44325 said:

    Aafke said:

    josevolution said:

    BS44325 said:

    josevolution said:

    How about knowing that if asshat Chaney & bush didn't push for that war we could of saved 4thousand Amrrican lives , how about we come to terms with that 1st

    Why can't we come to terms with both?
    Because I don't believe we should just dismiss the total fuck up of invasion & death of all those lives as if they can just be replaced with a new generation of soldiers how about we learn and never make a mistake like that again ...
    I agree!
    Ok great...now how about answering the question at hand with respect to the withdrawal?
    BS44325 said:

    Candid answers appreciated. I tend to go with the Robert Gates position. Good analysis on Libya as well.

    https://youtu.be/Fmg9MHsZfHI

    Why do we need plan in Libya? Why do I have to pay my taxes and risk my nephews safety to interject into another countries problems.

    You hold Raytheon stock? Boeing? Northrop? What gives? You want to police the world? How does Libya affect you?
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    callen said:

    BS44325 said:

    Aafke said:

    josevolution said:

    BS44325 said:

    josevolution said:

    How about knowing that if asshat Chaney & bush didn't push for that war we could of saved 4thousand Amrrican lives , how about we come to terms with that 1st

    Why can't we come to terms with both?
    Because I don't believe we should just dismiss the total fuck up of invasion & death of all those lives as if they can just be replaced with a new generation of soldiers how about we learn and never make a mistake like that again ...
    I agree!
    Ok great...now how about answering the question at hand with respect to the withdrawal?
    BS44325 said:

    Candid answers appreciated. I tend to go with the Robert Gates position. Good analysis on Libya as well.

    https://youtu.be/Fmg9MHsZfHI

    Why do we need plan in Libya? Why do I have to pay my taxes and risk my nephews safety to interject into another countries problems.

    You hold Raytheon stock? Boeing? Northrop? What gives? You want to police the world? How does Libya affect you?
    We're arguing the same point. Not my call to invade or occupy Libya. I don't think Robert Gates agreed with it either. That was your candidate Hillary who you are apparently supporting. Maybe you should ask her what that was all about.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Knowing what we knew then, I still don't support an invasion. I know, not the point.
  • muskydan
    muskydan Posts: 1,013
    callen said:

    BS44325 said:

    josevolution said:

    How about knowing that if asshat Chaney & bush didn't push for that war we could of saved 4thousand Amrrican lives , how about we come to terms with that 1st

    Why can't we come to terms with both?
    Like blaming the surgeon for the actions if the shooter
    that's some good stuff there….also Like blaming the Police for the actions of someone resisting them….BARF

  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    muskydan said:

    callen said:

    BS44325 said:

    josevolution said:

    How about knowing that if asshat Chaney & bush didn't push for that war we could of saved 4thousand Amrrican lives , how about we come to terms with that 1st

    Why can't we come to terms with both?
    Like blaming the surgeon for the actions if the shooter
    that's some good stuff there….also Like blaming the Police for the actions of someone resisting them….BARF

    Or the 13 bullets instead of the person in the uniform shooting the unarmed civilian.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,052
    BS44325 said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Uh yeah.

    Status of forces agreement, signed by GWB, guaranteed we would be out by the agreed upon date. Obama tried to keep us there. But they kicked us out.

    Don't pin the withdrawal on Obama, he could not make Iraq allow us to stay.

    You can't blame the successor, a man who never supported the war, for the fuck up of the predecessor.

    Let's cut the history revision crap please.

    So all things being equal you think the troops should have stayed?
    no. they never should have been there to begin with.

    i said it in 2003 back when people on this message board were telling me to get the fuck out of america. i protested. just like pearl jam, just like the dixie chicks. just like the countless other ones. we were right.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,052
    now that i re-read this, the entire premise is stupid.

    "knowing what we know now."

    we know now what we knew then. that iraq did not have wmds. that iraq posed no immediate threat to the united states or the middle east. hans blix was right. plame's husband was right. the administration knew it, and we went in anyway.

    the world is never going to forgive us for that one.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Bingo Gimmie Bingo
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,598
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    now that i re-read this, the entire premise is stupid.

    "knowing what we know now."

    we know now what we knew then. that iraq did not have wmds. that iraq posed no immediate threat to the united states or the middle east. hans blix was right. plame's husband was right. the administration knew it, and we went in anyway.

    the world is never going to forgive us for that one.

    Nor should it.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    now that i re-read this, the entire premise is stupid.

    "knowing what we know now."

    we know now what we knew then. that iraq did not have wmds. that iraq posed no immediate threat to the united states or the middle east. hans blix was right. plame's husband was right. the administration knew it, and we went in anyway.

    the world is never going to forgive us for that one.

    Facts, and yes ginmie was on here in 03 arguing AGAINST the war and people were telling him to get the fuck out of America. I remember.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,296
    You should never make a decision just so you can claim you followed up on a campaign promise.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    Never should have been there in the first place, and they needed to leave if the Iraqis wanted them to. Americans should now be down on their knees begging forgiveness rather than wondering if they should still have troops there.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,126
    Jason P said:

    You should never make a decision just so you can claim you followed up on a campaign promise.

    Except it was GWB's decision and signature on the SOFA. See Article 25 in the link below:

    http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,296
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Jason P said:

    You should never make a decision just so you can claim you followed up on a campaign promise.

    Except it was GWB's decision and signature on the SOFA. See Article 25 in the link below:

    http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

    That doesn't look like GWB's signature. And it is a moot point because a leader needs to be pragmatic and address and judge current issues accordingly.

    And I will even give the benefit of the doubt when we did pull out, we should have acted accordingly when the jihad movement slowly built up steam to what it is today.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    Common theme, we fucked shit up, everywhere. Makes you wonder if it's done purposely. How can a country with all these "think tanks" be so wrong over and over again??
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,126
    Its not a moot point as Prime Minister Maliki didn't want the US in Iraq and the US didn't want to stay due to the unreasonable terms insisted upon by the Iraqi government. What you're advocating for then is/was a re-invasion of Iraq, trampling all over their sovereignty and their democratic process, which was the justification given for the invasion after there were no WMDs found, no ties to Al Qaeda and Saddam was executed. Revisionist history won't eliminate the facts.

    The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Maybe ask all the mothers and fathers and husbands and wives and siblings and friends on all sides who had sons and daughters who died for nothing (again) what they think or those who are mentally and physically scarred for life for no good reason...again. Terrible. Absolutely terrible and shameful.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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