Aafke you are one of my favorite peeps on this board!! And I am glad that we finally have a professional opinion to back up what we've been saying all along. So may I ask,? I had a therapist once tell my dad that the scariest thing about suicide is the proof in how different thoughts are from action.. And then I went and proved it, which is luckily how I found PJ.. But just so this guy can see the truth, as it lies.
Is it true or false that suicidal thoughts are a reaching out gesture, whereas people that are truly suicidal don't normally tell you before hand, they just act on that?
And because this guy is trolling so hard.. I'm going to counter his threat with an offer:
If you are having suicidal thoughts, but you're no wary of expressing these thoughts due to this insensitive troll's threat... Feel free to PM me. I rarely sleep, so I'm almost always on here..and if you need to hear a physical voice you can always call. I'm sure everyone else here is also willing to PM with those experiencing such thoughts.
I suggest we all just accept that PJFan, for whatever his (or her) reasons, is just playing with us. There's no need or point in debating the matter further, unless you happen to enjoy it.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Aafke you are one of my favorite peeps on this board!! And I am glad that we finally have a professional opinion to back up what we've been saying all along. So may I ask,? I had a therapist once tell my dad that the scariest thing about suicide is the proof in how different thoughts are from action.. And then I went and proved it, which is luckily how I found PJ.. But just so this guy can see the truth, as it lies.
Is it true or false that suicidal thoughts are a reaching out gesture, whereas people that are truly suicidal don't normally tell you before hand, they just act on that?
Thank you, Whispering hands, for your kind words... I find it hard to speak in generals about suicidal thoughts and tendencies, but I'll give it a try. In general most people who already have decided to take their own lives are not in need to speak out, about these tendencies, because they already have made up their minds... Speaking about their decision may only start them wondering weather or not they are right, about their decision. These kind of decisions are never made easily, so whenever one has made up his or her mind, isn't likely to come forward, because of the judgments made by societies over these kinds of decisions. In their minds they know perfectly well, how unworthy they are,and what kind of misfits they are (In my mind every person has worth and no person is a misfit, but in a depressed mind, the most harsh judgments are mostly about the person itself) , so they don't feel any need to give the outside world an opportunity to judge them once again as unfit.
The ones who speak out are mostly the ones who are having doubts about, thoughts leading to actions. Especially when people are in doubt the reaction of others can have a lot of influence on the role off the dice, and the decisions people will make. Therefore, I think it's crucial, to let anyone having these thoughts, vent them as they seemed fit. Forcing someone to see a therapist who isn't ready to see one, doesn't work. A therapist, isn't the one to fix all the problems a suicidal person has, the therapist can only assist the client to try to fix their own problems. Their is a lot of commitment needed from the therapist but most of all the client, to change the thoughts and feelings which drives someone to have suicidal thoughts. If the client lacks the willingness to help themselves, therapeutic interventionist can only help this much...
That's why I do not like the kinds of comments PJfanwillneverleave1, makes. Speaking out most of the time is the first action someone takes to prevent him or herself from committing suicide. I don't know if an all ages forum is the place to discuss these kind of themes, but it certainly is not only the professionals place to step up! There is a lot of work needed to be done before someone is ready to see a professional, and if it can be done in here, why not? If only one person hasn't taken his or her own life because of talking to folks around here... I think PJfan... doesn't know the feeling of having suicidal thoughts, or is scared of his/her own thoughts, but I hope everyone feels free to speak out his or her mind whenever he or she feels the need to around here. I don't want to bring my work on me while on this board, but as a considered human being my ears will be always around to listen, if you feel the urge to vent your feelings...
Every human is different so every human deals different with his or her suicidal thoughts or tendencies, if they have them at all, but when you have them and you feel the urge to speak out. Let me or anyone else on this board know... By sharing your feelings, you take your first step away from the edge of life and death... Therefore my great respects to the OP of this thread.
Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
PJ fan recognizes suicide is serious and if one says they are suicidal coming to this board and getting advice is not the best way to deal with this and should be advised to seek immediate professional help. Having well intentioned advice is not the way to go and may hurt rather than help.
PJ fan recognizes suicide is serious and if one says they are suicidal coming to this board and getting advice is not the best way to deal with this and should be advised to seek immediate professional help. Having well intentioned advice is not the way to go and may hurt rather than help.
That would be fine if that was all he was saying/doing, but it's not.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
PJ fan recognizes suicide is serious and if one says they are suicidal coming to this board and getting advice is not the best way to deal with this and should be advised to seek immediate professional help. Having well intentioned advice is not the way to go and may hurt rather than help.
But that's the thing.. Talking about it is not what's so serious.. It's the planning and acting on it, that is serious. Aafke is correct, as us this trolling monster that claims to be concerned.. Seeking professional help is always an utmost reaction to those thoughts, but telling someone they can't voice their fears or thoughts on the subject, thus denying them that help.. Is WRONG!
Coming from someone like that guy, it means nothing.. He's teolling this thread and trying to pretend he cares.. There'sa HUGE problem with that. When you start telling someone 'OMG! You're having siucidal thoughts, you're in serious trouble!!" All you do is diced in scaring the fucking shit out of them, they shut down, and then who knows????
Not a SINGLE person here said that the person shouldn't seek help from a professional, that they should just rely on advice given via this board.. Not ONE. But those of us, having gone through this for real.. ( unlike the troll) know that reaching out is a way to combat it. So when that guy rides in on his high horse and says" hey.. I'm going to report you if you bring up this subject", his 'good intentions' just get quashed! Yes, it's serious.. It is not a game, or a subject to be taken lightly, I know this for FACT. However I also know that denying somebody a resource for battling the depression can actually cause the act. Should someone who's experiencing these thoughts seek professional advice?? FUCK YES!! But should they be denied the advice and comfort of those who have also been there and survived?? No.. PJFan is not being smart in his threat.. AT ALL. He could actually be the demise of said person with that threat. That is the point.
Fair enough Tree but we should be careful. There is a balance and if there are cases were people come here and say they are suicidal first reaction would be to say go seek professional help immediately. Realize that many come here as stress relief and we want to help our fellow PJ fans but we are not qualified to do so.
Anyway this is a tuff subject and sure this happens a lot in our new socially connected world.
Fair enough Tree but we should be careful. There is a balance and if there are cases were people come here and say they are suicidal first reaction would be to say go seek professional help immediately. Realize that many come here as stress relief and we want to help our fellow PJ fans but we are not qualified to do so.
Anyway this is a tuff subject and sure this happens a lot in our new socially connected world.
Definitely agree! My pint was he shouldn't be telling people that they can't express those feelings here. That's not fair. Cause' you're right, it's different for everyone. But reaching out is reaching out. And that venue should NEVER be denied.
And once more, only the actual Professional here, actually gave advice, everyone else was empathizing with the OP, and offering hat helped during their dealings with the issue. So you're right, yet SOOOOOOOOOO dangerously wrong!
Dark thoughts on a public forum may be misconstrued.
I don't know what this means, but you should check out the poetry forum once in awhile if you want dark thoughts. Notify the authorities!
People need release, feedback, interaction, perspective.
I don't discount the need and benefits of professional help when in the darkest place, but it seems like you've donned blinders about much discussed in this thread, and refuse to take them off.
Poetry is a great escape. A random thread posting about having suicidal thoughts may be a final escape for them.
May I ask what your profession is, PJfanwillneverleave1? Are you in any way professionally equipped, to make such judgement calls? If you are, I would like to see your studies for the arguments you're making, and I would like to battle them with studies, out of well respected, psychological journeys, which prove that sharing with non professionals, and professionals is the most effective way of not acting out suicidal tendencies. Speaking as a professional myself, professionals are also just human beings, they also have human errors. Diagnosis are in one way or another all, based on a form of interpretation.
Besides many others in this thread had point it out to you, but I'll try it once again, HAVING SUICIDAL THOUGHTS, ISN'T THE SAME, AS ACTING OUT THOSE THOUGHTS!!! In fact there is a huge difference between them. As the OP in her initial post wrote, I will not act on them, but who knows, if she didn't post this message and would only have stuck with those thoughts in her head, she might have ended up wanting to act on them, because, the feeling of being on your own with those thoughts, make it much more likely to act them out. Out of studies about this subject it appears that most people who actually commit suicide are the ones, which never spoke out!
I'm a therapist, but also an experience expert (EE) with having mentally difficulties (Yes, I know... all prejudices in one..., complex PTSD, and phases of depression are familiar to me). I know how important sharing with experience experts can be. Professionals do always have a professional distance, between themselves and their clients, which experience experts don't have. Therefore the advise of EE's can have more impact on a client than the words of an professional, because EE's know what you are going thought out of own experiences. This makes you feel your not alone in this world with the problems you're dealing with. This is the reason a lot of therapies are group therapies, in which clients can learn and reflect on the other clients, the effectiveness of those therapies can be much bigger , because of the contact between EE's.
My question to you, PJfanwillneverleave1, is...Why are you acting out in the way you do, regarding to this subject? What is the story behind your rage? It sounds a lot like fear to me...
Dark thoughts on a public forum may be misconstrued.
I don't know what this means, but you should check out the poetry forum once in awhile if you want dark thoughts. Notify the authorities!
People need release, feedback, interaction, perspective.
I don't discount the need and benefits of professional help when in the darkest place, but it seems like you've donned blinders about much discussed in this thread, and refuse to take them off.
Poetry is a great escape. A random thread posting about having suicidal thoughts may be a final escape for them.
May I ask what your profession is, PJfanwillneverleave1? Are you in any way professionally equipped, to make such judgement calls? If you are, I would like to see your studies for the arguments you're making, and I would like to battle them with studies, out of well respected, psychological journeys, which prove that sharing with non professionals, and professionals is the most effective way of not acting out suicidal tendencies. Speaking as a professional myself, professionals are also just human beings, they also have human errors. Diagnosis are in one way or another all, based on a form of interpretation.
Besides many others in this thread had point it out to you, but I'll try it once again, HAVING SUICIDAL THOUGHTS, ISN'T THE SAME, AS ACTING OUT THOSE THOUGHTS!!! In fact there is a huge difference between them. As the OP in her initial post wrote, I will not act on them, but who knows, if she didn't post this message and would only have stuck with those thoughts in her head, she might have ended up wanting to act on them, because, the feeling of being on your own with those thoughts, make it much more likely to act them out. Out of studies about this subject it appears that most people who actually commit suicide are the ones, which never spoke out!
I'm a therapist, but also an experience expert (EE) with having mentally difficulties (Yes, I know... all prejudices in one..., complex PTSD, and phases of depression are familiar to me). I know how important sharing with experience experts can be. Professionals do always have a professional distance, between themselves and their clients, which experience experts don't have. Therefore the advise of EE's can have more impact on a client than the words of an professional, because EE's know what you are going thought out of own experiences. This makes you feel your not alone in this world with the problems you're dealing with. This is the reason a lot of therapies are group therapies, in which clients can learn and reflect on the other clients, the effectiveness of those therapies can be much bigger , because of the contact between EE's.
My question to you, PJfanwillneverleave1, is...Why are you acting out in the way you do, regarding to this subject? What is the story behind your rage? It sounds a lot like fear to me...
I agree with all of this, Aafke. Thank you.
Thank you, pickupyourwill! I'm very glad with your response and hope you're doing okay.... Feel free to PM me whenever you feel the need for a listening ear...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
PJ fan recognizes suicide is serious and if one says they are suicidal coming to this board and getting advice is not the best way to deal with this and should be advised to seek immediate professional help. Having well intentioned advice is not the way to go and may hurt rather than help.
That would be fine if that was all he was saying/doing, but it's not.
Did you even read the thread? Your comment makes it sound like you didn't. (Oops, not you, Oftenreading. I mean Callen)
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Dude, don't ask us for advise, go tell your doctor. That shits serious. Don't fuck around man.
Ditto from a licensed therapist right here.
I'm sorry, 2fr, but I don't think you've gone through the proper credentialing process for posting an opinion on this thread. Please upload notarized copies of your degree(s) and professional license, along with affidavits from 2 sources who can confirm your identity and qualifications, then re-post your reply.
Otherwise you are apparently just a quack like the rest of us.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Dude, don't ask us for advise, go tell your doctor. That shits serious. Don't fuck around man.
Ditto from a licensed therapist right here.
I'm sorry, 2fr, but I don't think you've gone through the proper credentialing process for posting an opinion on this thread. Please upload notarized copies of your degree(s) and professional license, along with affidavits from 2 sources who can confirm your identity and qualifications, then re-post your reply.
Otherwise you are apparently just a quack like the rest of us.
I agree with one of the point ts made here. The post should be removed simply due to triggers it may cause. I understand that it may be more comfortable to talk to people here rather than in person. But pm's may be more appropriate.
I hope that everyone here knows that if they feel like they need to speak out, that they can pm me or mostly anyone here. It is definitely a start. Just know that somewhere in my response is going to be "go see a doctor immediately, please." Also that I'm going to do everything I can to contact someone you know and that can get to you quickly.
I agree with one of the point ts made here. The post should be removed simply due to triggers it may cause. I understand that it may be more comfortable to talk to people here rather than in person. But pm's may be more appropriate.
I hope that everyone here knows that if they feel like they need to speak out, that they can pm me or mostly anyone here. It is definitely a start. Just know that somewhere in my response is going to be "go see a doctor immediately, please." Also that I'm going to do everything I can to contact someone you know and that can get to you quickly.
So this was a good healthy conversation and great points made and though many didn't like being challenged on their advice we all now agree seeing Dr next week and just giving some "support" doesn't cut it. That is where the conversation was going initially.
We have the craving to nurture but on this serious subject our seemingly helpful advice may indeed not be so.
I hope the OP is okay and agree reaching out is the best thing even on board but then replyers need to understand their true limitations AND their motivations on wanting to help and risks.
So this was a good healthy conversation and great points made and though many didn't like being challenged on their advice we all now agree seeing Dr next week and just giving some "support" doesn't cut it. That is where the conversation was going initially.
We have the craving to nurture but on this serious subject our seemingly helpful advice may indeed not be so.
I hope the OP is okay and agree reaching out is the best thing even on board but then replyers need to understand their true limitations AND their motivations on wanting to help and risks.
My opinion I know.
Peace
Sorry callen, but I just re-read the first three posts and all said to talk to a doctor "now" or "asap" (full disclosure - that includes my post). Quite possible the next ones did as well, but I didn't continue to scroll down. The additional suggestions/information were to complement, not replace, that.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I think we all realize we're keyboards away; how is offering support and confirming the need to see one's therapists, doctors, etc. not helpful? We get the limitations. Well, I do. I'm sure the recipient(s) do as well.
As to what propels those actions, they're on us and no one else to accurately judge what moves us to reach out.
So this was a good healthy conversation and great points made and though many didn't like being challenged on their advice we all now agree seeing Dr next week and just giving some "support" doesn't cut it. That is where the conversation was going initially.
We have the craving to nurture but on this serious subject our seemingly helpful advice may indeed not be so.
I hope the OP is okay and agree reaching out is the best thing even on board but then replyers need to understand their true limitations AND their motivations on wanting to help and risks.
My opinion I know.
Peace
Sorry callen, but I just re-read the first three posts and all said to talk to a doctor "now" or "asap" (full disclosure - that includes my post). Quite possible the next ones did as well, but I didn't continue to scroll down. The additional suggestions/information were to complement, not replace, that.
That's how I saw it too.
I am not one to take threats of suicide lightly. Just recently some guy was making cryptic comments in a PJ Facebook group that really made it sound like he was going to hurt himself. The first thing I did was pm his wife, while another guy contacted the person's local police. That is not how this thread went though. The OP did not indicate that he was about to hurt himself, for one. All I really saw was immediate strong encouragement to see a doctor right away, and then other useful advice and a sharing of perspectives to.back up the professional help everyone agrees is needed.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Is it true or false that suicidal thoughts are a reaching out gesture, whereas people that are truly suicidal don't normally tell you before hand, they just act on that?
If you are having suicidal thoughts, but you're no wary of expressing these thoughts due to this insensitive troll's threat... Feel free to PM me. I rarely sleep, so I'm almost always on here..and if you need to hear a physical voice you can always call. I'm sure everyone else here is also willing to PM with those experiencing such thoughts.
I suggest we all just accept that PJFan, for whatever his (or her) reasons, is just playing with us. There's no need or point in debating the matter further, unless you happen to enjoy it.
The ones who speak out are mostly the ones who are having doubts about, thoughts leading to actions. Especially when people are in doubt the reaction of others can have a lot of influence on the role off the dice, and the decisions people will make. Therefore, I think it's crucial, to let anyone having these thoughts, vent them as they seemed fit. Forcing someone to see a therapist who isn't ready to see one, doesn't work. A therapist, isn't the one to fix all the problems a suicidal person has, the therapist can only assist the client to try to fix their own problems. Their is a lot of commitment needed from the therapist but most of all the client, to change the thoughts and feelings which drives someone to have suicidal thoughts. If the client lacks the willingness to help themselves, therapeutic interventionist can only help this much...
That's why I do not like the kinds of comments PJfanwillneverleave1, makes. Speaking out most of the time is the first action someone takes to prevent him or herself from committing suicide. I don't know if an all ages forum is the place to discuss these kind of themes, but it certainly is not only the professionals place to step up! There is a lot of work needed to be done before someone is ready to see a professional, and if it can be done in here, why not? If only one person hasn't taken his or her own life because of talking to folks around here... I think PJfan... doesn't know the feeling of having suicidal thoughts, or is scared of his/her own thoughts, but I hope everyone feels free to speak out his or her mind whenever he or she feels the need to around here. I don't want to bring my work on me while on this board, but as a considered human being my ears will be always around to listen, if you feel the urge to vent your feelings...
Every human is different so every human deals different with his or her suicidal thoughts or tendencies, if they have them at all, but when you have them and you feel the urge to speak out. Let me or anyone else on this board know... By sharing your feelings, you take your first step away from the edge of life and death... Therefore my great respects to the OP of this thread.
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
Coming from someone like that guy, it means nothing.. He's teolling this thread and trying to pretend he cares.. There'sa HUGE problem with that. When you start telling someone 'OMG! You're having siucidal thoughts, you're in serious trouble!!" All you do is diced in scaring the fucking shit out of them, they shut down, and then who knows????
Not a SINGLE person here said that the person shouldn't seek help from a professional, that they should just rely on advice given via this board.. Not ONE. But those of us, having gone through this for real.. ( unlike the troll) know that reaching out is a way to combat it. So when that guy rides in on his high horse and says" hey.. I'm going to report you if you bring up this subject", his 'good intentions' just get quashed! Yes, it's serious.. It is not a game, or a subject to be taken lightly, I know this for FACT. However I also know that denying somebody a resource for battling the depression can actually cause the act. Should someone who's experiencing these thoughts seek professional advice?? FUCK YES!! But should they be denied the advice and comfort of those who have also been there and survived?? No.. PJFan is not being smart in his threat.. AT ALL. He could actually be the demise of said person with that threat. That is the point.
Anyway this is a tuff subject and sure this happens a lot in our new socially connected world.
Professional here, actually gave advice, everyone else was empathizing with the OP, and offering hat helped during their dealings with the issue. So you're right, yet SOOOOOOOOOO dangerously wrong!
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
(Oops, not you, Oftenreading. I mean Callen)
Otherwise you are apparently just a quack like the rest of us.
I hope that everyone here knows that if they feel like they need to speak out, that they can pm me or mostly anyone here. It is definitely a start. Just know that somewhere in my response is going to be "go see a doctor immediately, please." Also that I'm going to do everything I can to contact someone you know and that can get to you quickly.
We have the craving to nurture but on this serious subject our seemingly helpful advice may indeed not be so.
I hope the OP is okay and agree reaching out is the best thing even on board but then replyers need to understand their true limitations AND their motivations on wanting to help and risks.
My opinion I know.
Peace
As to what propels those actions, they're on us and no one else to accurately judge what moves us to reach out.
I am not one to take threats of suicide lightly. Just recently some guy was making cryptic comments in a PJ Facebook group that really made it sound like he was going to hurt himself. The first thing I did was pm his wife, while another guy contacted the person's local police.
That is not how this thread went though. The OP did not indicate that he was about to hurt himself, for one. All I really saw was immediate strong encouragement to see a doctor right away, and then other useful advice and a sharing of perspectives to.back up the professional help everyone agrees is needed.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce