ramblings

pickupyourwill

...

whispering hands

pickupyourwill said:

I always assumed he wrote the song Lithium about his experience with it. I assumed it was a brief experience. Am I wrong there? Does anyone know if he was on meds when he commited suicide?

I'm curious because I am on Lithium. Sometimes I think I'm on the wrong thing. I've been on it for years now. Last month or so I've had a lot of suicidal thinking. I could never do that to my son. He's too dependent on me and I don't want to mess up his life like that. But sometimes I can really understand why people do it.

Talk to your doctor NOW!! That is a very serious side effect! It's supposed to even out that kind of thinking, but can often have the reverse effect, so talk to your doctor as soon as possible.

Jason P

Yes, please look to your doctor, friends, and family. Look into seeing a therapist. Right now.

People love you.

Start doing nightly walks. Walking gives you time to clear your head and it is simple exercise that may change your outlook. Get some earbuds and do a hour walk while listinging to your favorite music or download a book and listen to it.

Stay strong, my fellow PJ friend.

oftenreading

whispering hands said:

pickupyourwill said:

I always assumed he wrote the song Lithium about his experience with it. I assumed it was a brief experience. Am I wrong there? Does anyone know if he was on meds when he commited suicide?

I'm curious because I am on Lithium. Sometimes I think I'm on the wrong thing. I've been on it for years now. Last month or so I've had a lot of suicidal thinking. I could never do that to my son. He's too dependent on me and I don't want to mess up his life like that. But sometimes I can really understand why people do it.

Talk to your doctor NOW!! That is a very serious side effect! It's supposed to even out that kind of thinking, but can often have the reverse effect, so talk to your doctor as soon as possible.

I wouldn't call it a side effect but I would definitely say it doesn't sound like the lithium is doing its job for you right now. You say you've been on it for years - it may be time for a change - in dose, or another medication, or some other aspect of your treatment. I agree with the other posters - please get yourself to your doctor ASAP to discuss this, and in the meantime JasonP has made some really good suggestions.

pickupyourwill

Thank you guys. I am seeing my therapist next week and will definitely bring it up. Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate all the good vibes.

whispering hands

oftenreading said:

whispering hands said:

pickupyourwill said:

I always assumed he wrote the song Lithium about his experience with it. I assumed it was a brief experience. Am I wrong there? Does anyone know if he was on meds when he commited suicide?

I'm curious because I am on Lithium. Sometimes I think I'm on the wrong thing. I've been on it for years now. Last month or so I've had a lot of suicidal thinking. I could never do that to my son. He's too dependent on me and I don't want to mess up his life like that. But sometimes I can really understand why people do it.

Talk to your doctor NOW!! That is a very serious side effect! It's supposed to even out that kind of thinking, but can often have the reverse effect, so talk to your doctor as soon as possible.

I wouldn't call it a side effect but I would definitely say it doesn't sound like the lithium is doing its job for you right now. You say you've been on it for years - it may be time for a change - in dose, or another medication, or some other aspect of your treatment. I agree with the other posters - please get yourself to your doctor ASAP to discuss this, and in the meantime JasonP has made some really good suggestions.

No.. For real, suicidal thoughts or deepening depression IS a possible side effect of Lithium for some people.

whispering hands

Here's the thing the doctors never tell you about taking Lithium: it never breaks down, it never fully
Leaves your body, and you can DIE from it poisoning your liver. The reason they give us this, is because your body only produces so much natural Lithium, and once it has been depleted, we need a comparable substitute. It is to cute a chemical imbalance of the brain. It is the starter Chem for most clinical and BiPolar depressions. The problem
With it, is that since it never fully leaves the body in that synthetic state, it just builds up and can e eventually cause worsening bouts of the very thing it is intended to cure.. Your depression. So definitely bring that up to your doctor. There's a million less caustic remedies for depression than Lithium. Good luck and keep us posted.

oftenreading

whispering hands said:

Here's the thing the doctors never tell you about taking Lithium: it never breaks down, it never fully
Leaves your body, and you can DIE from it poisoning your liver. The reason they give us this, is because your body only produces so much natural Lithium, and once it has been depleted, we need a comparable substitute. It is to cute a chemical imbalance of the brain. It is the starter Chem for most clinical and BiPolar depressions. The problem
With it, is that since it never fully leaves the body in that synthetic state, it just builds up and can e eventually cause worsening bouts of the very thing it is intended to cure.. Your depression. So definitely bring that up to your doctor. There's a million less caustic remedies for depression than Lithium. Good luck and keep us posted.

I think you may be thinking of its effect on the kidneys, WH; lithium has little to no effect on the liver.

PJfanwillneverleave1

pickupyourwill said:

I always assumed he wrote the song Lithium about his experience with it. I assumed it was a brief experience. Am I wrong there? Does anyone know if he was on meds when he commited suicide?

I'm curious because I am on Lithium. Sometimes I think I'm on the wrong thing. I've been on it for years now. Last month or so I've had a lot of suicidal thinking. I could never do that to my son. He's too dependent on me and I don't want to mess up his life like that. But sometimes I can really understand why people do it.

Call 911 and get help.

badbrains

Dude, don't ask us for advise, go tell your doctor. That shits serious. Don't fuck around man.

hedonist

pickupyourwill said:

Thank you guys. I am seeing my therapist next week and will definitely bring it up. Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate all the good vibes.

I don't know much about Lithium, but for your own sake, I hope you can see your therapist AND doctor sooner rather than later.

Also, good to know having your son is helping to keep yourself / your mind in check. You owe it to the both of you to seek help, and soon.

In the meantime, I too must echo Jason's thoughts.

Wishing you well from here. Please, keep yourself safe.

Drowned Out

Jason P said:

Yes, please look to your doctor, friends, and family. Look into seeing a therapist. Right now.

People love you.

Start doing nightly walks. Walking gives you time to clear your head and it is simple exercise that may change your outlook. Get some earbuds and do a hour walk while listinging to your favorite music or download a book and listen to it.

Stay strong, my fellow PJ friend.

^this is solid advice.
Put yourself first until you can shake this; it will be the best thing you could do for your son right now. Good luck with your struggles, pickupyourwill.

gimmesometruth27

to answer the original question, he wrote of suicide a lot in his journals. montage of heck talks about it. i doubt his suicide was due directly to lithium. the man was a lost cause. look at the private footage with him and courtney and frances in their home in the movie. dude was strung out bigtime.

OP, take care of yourself. as someone who was once down that low, meds and counseling is the best way. everyone had good suggestions here. take their advice.

i am not sure, but can one develop tolerance to lithium like they can other drugs? if that is the case, perhaps the medicine is not working as well if you have a tolerance to it.

good luck!

whispering hands

oftenreading said:

whispering hands said:

Here's the thing the doctors never tell you about taking Lithium: it never breaks down, it never fully
Leaves your body, and you can DIE from it poisoning your liver. The reason they give us this, is because your body only produces so much natural Lithium, and once it has been depleted, we need a comparable substitute. It is to cute a chemical imbalance of the brain. It is the starter Chem for most clinical and BiPolar depressions. The problem
With it, is that since it never fully leaves the body in that synthetic state, it just builds up and can e eventually cause worsening bouts of the very thing it is intended to cure.. Your depression. So definitely bring that up to your doctor. There's a million less caustic remedies for depression than Lithium. Good luck and keep us posted.

I think you may be thinking of its effect on the kidneys, WH; lithium has little to no effect on the liver.

I believe you're right.It's Renal failure that is the worry.. So yeah that would be the kidneys. Thanks for the correction.

The Waiting Trophy Man

Hang in there. Things always get better. And yes, talk to your doctor and therapist. Maybe get referral to a psychologist, unless your therapist can prescribe meds. You need something else or different dosage, as someone said.

oftenreading

whispering hands said:

oftenreading said:

whispering hands said:

Here's the thing the doctors never tell you about taking Lithium: it never breaks down, it never fully
Leaves your body, and you can DIE from it poisoning your liver. The reason they give us this, is because your body only produces so much natural Lithium, and once it has been depleted, we need a comparable substitute. It is to cute a chemical imbalance of the brain. It is the starter Chem for most clinical and BiPolar depressions. The problem
With it, is that since it never fully leaves the body in that synthetic state, it just builds up and can e eventually cause worsening bouts of the very thing it is intended to cure.. Your depression. So definitely bring that up to your doctor. There's a million less caustic remedies for depression than Lithium. Good luck and keep us posted.

I think you may be thinking of its effect on the kidneys, WH; lithium has little to no effect on the liver.

I believe you're right.It's Renal failure that is the worry.. So yeah that would be the kidneys. Thanks for the correction.

No worries. I don't want to come across as argumentative, but I believe good mental health care is crucial and I want people to have accurate information to base their decisions on.

The evidence for lithium's efficacy is very strong; it's one of the most effective medications in psychiatry, and it is one of very few medications that has been demonstrated to reduce the risk of suicide. However, it certainly isn't for everyone; the side effects can be difficult or impossible to tolerate for some people, and the toxic dose isn't too much higher than the therapeutic dose so you do have to be careful with dosing.

pickupyourwill, I hope that someone has been monitoring you regularly with respect to your medication, with regular blood levels as well as checks of your kidney function, thyroid function, and some other things. If not, please make sure you have a serious conversation with your doctor. You deserve good care.

whispering hands

oftenreading said:

whispering hands said:

oftenreading said:

whispering hands said:

Here's the thing the doctors never tell you about taking Lithium: it never breaks down, it never fully
Leaves your body, and you can DIE from it poisoning your liver. The reason they give us this, is because your body only produces so much natural Lithium, and once it has been depleted, we need a comparable substitute. It is to cute a chemical imbalance of the brain. It is the starter Chem for most clinical and BiPolar depressions. The problem
With it, is that since it never fully leaves the body in that synthetic state, it just builds up and can e eventually cause worsening bouts of the very thing it is intended to cure.. Your depression. So definitely bring that up to your doctor. There's a million less caustic remedies for depression than Lithium. Good luck and keep us posted.

I think you may be thinking of its effect on the kidneys, WH; lithium has little to no effect on the liver.

I believe you're right.It's Renal failure that is the worry.. So yeah that would be the kidneys. Thanks for the correction.

No worries. I don't want to come across as argumentative, but I believe good mental health care is crucial and I want people to have accurate information to base their decisions on.

The evidence for lithium's efficacy is very strong; it's one of the most effective medications in psychiatry, and it is one of very few medications that has been demonstrated to reduce the risk of suicide. However, it certainly isn't for everyone; the side effects can be difficult or impossible to tolerate for some people, and the toxic dose isn't too much higher than the therapeutic dose so you do have to be careful with dosing.

pickupyourwill, I hope that someone has been monitoring you regularly with respect to your medication, with regular blood levels as well as checks of your kidney function, thyroid function, and some other things. If not, please make sure you have a serious conversation with your doctor. You deserve good care.

Totally agree with you on this! It is very important. And I again appreciate that correction, because sometimes my brain is working in too many directions at once, ( that's where the ADHD messes me up!) and I confuse facts. So thank you for catching that, because accurate info on health matters wether of the body or the psyche is VERY crucial, to getting the help one needs. I've been BP for so long, that I can't even remember all the meds I've been on.

rr165892

Pickup,
definitely talk to your doc.Wishing you good thoughts from here.Stay strong.HJave you ever tried yoga?really good for mind,body and of course soul?
Some of the folks above really know what they are talking about and have been there.Good advice.

pickupyourwill

You all are so awesome. I can't thank you enough.

PJ_Soul

Apparently that so-called side effect of suicidal thoughts from anti-depressants isn't a specific chemical reaction or anything like that. It comes from the medication actually working, in that without it the patient is actually too depressed for suicidal thoughts - not enough energy for that - and the medication can bring on suicidal thoughts just because it provides the extra energy that suicidal thoughts and actual suicide apparently tend to require. At least that's what I heard from doctors.

Take care OP. Definitely talk about this to your doctor (not just your therapist). Glad to know that you aren't actually willing to do the deed.

pickupyourwill

PJ_Soul said:

Apparently that so-called side effect of suicidal thoughts from anti-depressants isn't a specific chemical reaction or anything like that. It comes from the medication actually working, in that without it the patient is actually too depressed for suicidal thoughts - not enough energy for that - and the medication can bring on suicidal thoughts just because it provides the extra energy that suicidal thoughts and actual suicide apparently tend to require. At least that's what I heard from doctors.

Take care OP. Definitely talk about this to your doctor (not just your therapist). Glad to know that you aren't actually willing to do the deed.

Thank you for the info. I'll bring it up to my doctor this week.

btw what does OP stand for?

Thoughts_Arrive

I think OP is Original Poster.
Take care of yourself pickupyourwill.
Definitely see your GP/Psychiatrist and call your local suicide prevention hotline if things get worse.

PJfanwillneverleave1

To anyone else reading this thread and want to post about suicidal thoughts they are having -
please don't.

Go get help and express what you're feeling to a Doctor. People that can actually help.
Not people that just post advice in response.

When someone confides/posts to people that they're having suicidal thoughts we are morally obliged to help or report to the proper people. If we don't and the person commits suicide then it is on us (conscience) for at least not passing this info on.

Get help and stop posting about having suicidal thoughts.

I would further state that I will flag posts with people starting threads about having suicidal thoughts.

I am no moderator but I feel this forum is not for people to drop something as heavy as having suicidal thoughts on an all ages forum.

whispering hands

In a way I agree.. But that's awful self righteous of you to take that stance! Sometimes this place i
IS that person's lifeline.. This IS their call for help.. So now you may just have CAUSED a suicide in that ONE post, as, for fear of being flagged, that person may never reach out for help. Way to go!! Good on you, eh?

You can't put that on someone. Not everyone communicates the same way. I respond to each and every person that posts about suicidal thoughts, because I KNOW that they are at least reaching out.. And if you can keep them
In the volley, then they are living, even if it is just to cry out about their fears, and sufferages. But at least they ARE reaching out..

PJfanwillneverleave1

whispering hands said:

In a way I agree.. But that's awful self righteous of you to take that stance! Sometimes this place i
IS that person's lifeline.. This IS their call for help.. So now you may just have CAUSED a suicide in that ONE post, as, for fear of being flagged, that person may never reach out for help. Way to go!! Good on you, eh?

You can't put that on someone. Not everyone communicates the same way. I respond to each and every person that posts about suicidal thoughts, because I KNOW that they are at least reaching out.. And if you can keep them
In the volley, then they are living, even if it is just to cry out about their fears, and sufferages. But at least they ARE reaching out..

Nope.
I disagree.
Reach out in private or to the proper professionals that can offer real time help.

hedonist

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

To anyone else reading this thread and want to post about suicidal thoughts they are having -
please don't.

Go get help and express what you're feeling to a Doctor. People that can actually help.
Not people that just post advice in response.

When someone confides/posts to people that they're having suicidal thoughts we are morally obliged to help or report to the proper people. If we don't and the person commits suicide then it is on us (conscience) for at least not passing this info on.

Get help and stop posting about having suicidal thoughts.

I would further state that I will flag posts with people starting threads about having suicidal thoughts.

I am no moderator but I feel this forum is not for people to drop something as heavy as having suicidal thoughts on an all ages forum.

Really? This person has said they're seeking out assistance, was looking for input from others familiar with the medication being taken and its effects. Couldn't get an appointment till this week, I believe.

If, in the interim, something I / we can say, whether through experience or simple good words and thoughts, as a means to help until he CAN get to his doctor?

I've no qualms with that.

I'm really surprised by your post, PJfan. Heavy shit is part of life, no? This forum addresses said heavy shit.

To flag this and similar posts? Like bizarro world.

whispering hands

Besides, you have NO clue what that person is going through.. Maybe they feel they CAN'T reach out to those around them, maybe they just want to know they are not alone. I agree it's a heavy subject, but many times I wanted to end my life during the 20 years I have been posting here.. Godfather knows about it, as he was the reason I got up everyday, to rebuttals his quest to convince me that life got better. There have been many posters here that have talked me down off the edge.. So that's pretty unfair to tell people not to post those fears or feelings on here.. Maybe.. Maybe it's their only source of light.. Maybe they are reaching out INTHE hopes that somebody.. ANYBODY cares..

PJfanwillneverleave1

hedonist said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

To anyone else reading this thread and want to post about suicidal thoughts they are having -
please don't.

Go get help and express what you're feeling to a Doctor. People that can actually help.
Not people that just post advice in response.

When someone confides/posts to people that they're having suicidal thoughts we are morally obliged to help or report to the proper people. If we don't and the person commits suicide then it is on us (conscience) for at least not passing this info on.

Get help and stop posting about having suicidal thoughts.

I would further state that I will flag posts with people starting threads about having suicidal thoughts.

I am no moderator but I feel this forum is not for people to drop something as heavy as having suicidal thoughts on an all ages forum.

Really? This person has said they're seeking out assistance, was looking for input from others familiar with the medication being taken and its effects. Couldn't get an appointment till this week, I believe.

If, in the interim, something I / we can say, whether through experience or simple good words and thoughts, as a means to help until he CAN get to his doctor?

I've no qualms with that.

I'm really surprised by your post, PJfan. Heavy shit is part of life, no? This forum addresses said heavy shit.

To flag this and similar posts? Like bizarro world.

I want to flag posts not to get the Posters in shit. Just to pass on the call for help to a higher level.
If someone came up to me friend or not and told me they are having suicidal thoughts for whatever reason (meds, mouring , etc) you don't just give advice. You bring them to police, hospital or anyone else that can physically help them immediately. You don't tell them to go see a doctor when you can. They need a doctor/help immediately.
What is so hard to understand about this?

hedonist

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

hedonist said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

To anyone else reading this thread and want to post about suicidal thoughts they are having -
please don't.

Go get help and express what you're feeling to a Doctor. People that can actually help.
Not people that just post advice in response.

When someone confides/posts to people that they're having suicidal thoughts we are morally obliged to help or report to the proper people. If we don't and the person commits suicide then it is on us (conscience) for at least not passing this info on.

Get help and stop posting about having suicidal thoughts.

I would further state that I will flag posts with people starting threads about having suicidal thoughts.

I am no moderator but I feel this forum is not for people to drop something as heavy as having suicidal thoughts on an all ages forum.

Really? This person has said they're seeking out assistance, was looking for input from others familiar with the medication being taken and its effects. Couldn't get an appointment till this week, I believe.

If, in the interim, something I / we can say, whether through experience or simple good words and thoughts, as a means to help until he CAN get to his doctor?

I've no qualms with that.

I'm really surprised by your post, PJfan. Heavy shit is part of life, no? This forum addresses said heavy shit.

To flag this and similar posts? Like bizarro world.

I want to flag posts not to get the Posters in shit. Just to pass on the call for help to a higher level.
If someone came up to me friend or not and told me they are having suicidal thoughts for whatever reason (meds, mouring , etc) you don't just give advice. You bring them to police, hospital or anyone else that can physically help them immediately. You don't tell them to go see a doctor when you can. They need a doctor/help immediately.
What is so hard to understand about this?

Because given that it's an online forum and we don't have physical access to someone, and it's been brought up here, it's how the response typically goes. I'd imagine the OP or others in similar situations have been reached out to via pm's by other members.

What's the point of flagging? Are the mods to take responsibility for that poster?

Anyway, the OP said he was seeing his doc this week. To respond to your last question, what's so hard to understand about someone needing - asking for and receiving - some support until then?

whispering hands

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

hedonist said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

To anyone else reading this thread and want to post about suicidal thoughts they are having -
please don't.

Go get help and express what you're feeling to a Doctor. People that can actually help.
Not people that just post advice in response.

When someone confides/posts to people that they're having suicidal thoughts we are morally obliged to help or report to the proper people. If we don't and the person commits suicide then it is on us (conscience) for at least not passing this info on.

Get help and stop posting about having suicidal thoughts.

I would further state that I will flag posts with people starting threads about having suicidal thoughts.

I am no moderator but I feel this forum is not for people to drop something as heavy as having suicidal thoughts on an all ages forum.

Really? This person has said they're seeking out assistance, was looking for input from others familiar with the medication being taken and its effects. Couldn't get an appointment till this week, I believe.

If, in the interim, something I / we can say, whether through experience or simple good words and thoughts, as a means to help until he CAN get to his doctor?

I've no qualms with that.

I'm really surprised by your post, PJfan. Heavy shit is part of life, no? This forum addresses said heavy shit.

To flag this and similar posts? Like bizarro world.

I want to flag posts not to get the Posters in shit. Just to pass on the call for help to a higher level.
If someone came up to me friend or not and told me they are having suicidal thoughts for whatever reason (meds, mouring , etc) you don't just give advice. You bring them to police, hospital or anyone else that can physically help them immediately. You don't tell them to go see a doctor when you can. They need a doctor/help immediately.
What is so hard to understand about this?

So.. You cause shit for the person by flagging their posts.. What the fuck are the mods going to do?? They can't do anything more than what we're in here doing, advising that the person seek help. So how does threatening them
With that make it so great an option? The mods can't do anything more than us, honestly, so putting that out there, just tells people suffering like this that it's not ok to reach out.. For fear of being dealt with whatever they take that as.. The mods are not trained to deal with this sort of shit.. Shit, they're BARELY taught IT.. So how is flagging a post helping anyone?

PJfanwillneverleave1

hedonist said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

hedonist said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

To anyone else reading this thread and want to post about suicidal thoughts they are having -
please don't.

Go get help and express what you're feeling to a Doctor. People that can actually help.
Not people that just post advice in response.

When someone confides/posts to people that they're having suicidal thoughts we are morally obliged to help or report to the proper people. If we don't and the person commits suicide then it is on us (conscience) for at least not passing this info on.

Get help and stop posting about having suicidal thoughts.

I would further state that I will flag posts with people starting threads about having suicidal thoughts.

I am no moderator but I feel this forum is not for people to drop something as heavy as having suicidal thoughts on an all ages forum.

Really? This person has said they're seeking out assistance, was looking for input from others familiar with the medication being taken and its effects. Couldn't get an appointment till this week, I believe.

If, in the interim, something I / we can say, whether through experience or simple good words and thoughts, as a means to help until he CAN get to his doctor?

I've no qualms with that.

I'm really surprised by your post, PJfan. Heavy shit is part of life, no? This forum addresses said heavy shit.

To flag this and similar posts? Like bizarro world.

I want to flag posts not to get the Posters in shit. Just to pass on the call for help to a higher level.
If someone came up to me friend or not and told me they are having suicidal thoughts for whatever reason (meds, mouring , etc) you don't just give advice. You bring them to police, hospital or anyone else that can physically help them immediately. You don't tell them to go see a doctor when you can. They need a doctor/help immediately.
What is so hard to understand about this?

Because given that it's an online forum and we don't have physical access to someone, and it's been brought up here, it's how the response typically goes. I'd imagine the OP or others in similar situations have been reached out to via pm's by other members.

What's the point of flagging? Are the mods to take responsibility for that poster?

Anyway, the OP said he was seeing his doc this week. To respond to your last question, what's so hard to understand about someone needing - asking for and receiving - some support until then?

Someone needs to take responsibility.

This is not directed only to the OP.

This is a public/all ages forum. When random threads that get started about people having suicidal thoughts I know it is a call for help.

And as I said in my post - anyone else thinking about posting should not,
go immediately to the ER or call the police and get help.