Baltimore
Comments
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if you really think those folks sat back and thought "oh my, CVS may never come back and we may lose some vital resources if we act badly" you're missing something, you may see it as a loss...they didn't....JimmyV said:
Except they did have something to lose. Are those businesses coming back? Is the pharmacy with the walk-in clinic coming back? That was a resource that is now potentially lost forever and certainly lost for the foreseeable future.inmytree said:
perhaps...I know it's a hard to conceptualize...Last-12-Exit said:
Do you really need an education to know that vandalizing, stealing, and setting fires is wrong?inmytree said:
Yeah, it's hard to understand...what I do understand is that not everyone has the same education, support, and norms as I do...therefore...when events such as this happen, it will be difficult to understand...JimmyV said:Never understood looting and burning your own neighborhood. Never will.
what we can all do is look for the root factors...then we can begin to understand...
BOOM!!!!
anyhoo...if the cops would have put that fella in an ambulance instead of a police van, we would be talking about something else...
and I give zero fucks about is his race or record or why he was arrested...the dude was hurt, get him medical attention at the scene...it's that simple...
I also mentioned norms and support...those are factors too...
anyhoo...I'd be willing to bet many of the rioters knew it was "wrong"....they didn't care...when you've got nothing to lose...you make different choices...
it's easy for folks to judge and monday-morning-QB when they use their own life experiences and project their own thinking and norms on others...
to be honest, I couldn't read this entire thread...too much junk in it...
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Its also easy for people to make excuses. They had nothing to lose very quickly becomes they didn't care they had something to lose.inmytree said:
if you really think those folks sat back and thought "oh my, CVS may never come back and we may lose some vital resources if we act badly" you're missing something, you may see it as a loss...they didn't....JimmyV said:
Except they did have something to lose. Are those businesses coming back? Is the pharmacy with the walk-in clinic coming back? That was a resource that is now potentially lost forever and certainly lost for the foreseeable future.inmytree said:
perhaps...I know it's a hard to conceptualize...Last-12-Exit said:
Do you really need an education to know that vandalizing, stealing, and setting fires is wrong?inmytree said:
Yeah, it's hard to understand...what I do understand is that not everyone has the same education, support, and norms as I do...therefore...when events such as this happen, it will be difficult to understand...JimmyV said:Never understood looting and burning your own neighborhood. Never will.
what we can all do is look for the root factors...then we can begin to understand...
BOOM!!!!
anyhoo...if the cops would have put that fella in an ambulance instead of a police van, we would be talking about something else...
and I give zero fucks about is his race or record or why he was arrested...the dude was hurt, get him medical attention at the scene...it's that simple...
I also mentioned norms and support...those are factors too...
anyhoo...I'd be willing to bet many of the rioters knew it was "wrong"....they didn't care...when you've got nothing to lose...you make different choices...
it's easy for folks to judge and monday-morning-QB when they use their own life experiences and project their own thinking and norms on others...
to be honest, I couldn't read this entire thread...too much junk in it...
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
I agree...excuse making is easy...so is blaming, judging, and assuming....JimmyV said:
Its also easy for people to make excuses. They had nothing to lose very quickly becomes they didn't care they had something to lose.inmytree said:
if you really think those folks sat back and thought "oh my, CVS may never come back and we may lose some vital resources if we act badly" you're missing something, you may see it as a loss...they didn't....JimmyV said:
Except they did have something to lose. Are those businesses coming back? Is the pharmacy with the walk-in clinic coming back? That was a resource that is now potentially lost forever and certainly lost for the foreseeable future.inmytree said:
perhaps...I know it's a hard to conceptualize...Last-12-Exit said:
Do you really need an education to know that vandalizing, stealing, and setting fires is wrong?inmytree said:
Yeah, it's hard to understand...what I do understand is that not everyone has the same education, support, and norms as I do...therefore...when events such as this happen, it will be difficult to understand...JimmyV said:Never understood looting and burning your own neighborhood. Never will.
what we can all do is look for the root factors...then we can begin to understand...
BOOM!!!!
anyhoo...if the cops would have put that fella in an ambulance instead of a police van, we would be talking about something else...
and I give zero fucks about is his race or record or why he was arrested...the dude was hurt, get him medical attention at the scene...it's that simple...
I also mentioned norms and support...those are factors too...
anyhoo...I'd be willing to bet many of the rioters knew it was "wrong"....they didn't care...when you've got nothing to lose...you make different choices...
it's easy for folks to judge and monday-morning-QB when they use their own life experiences and project their own thinking and norms on others...
to be honest, I couldn't read this entire thread...too much junk in it...
the hard part is stepping back and looking for the root cause and real problem....0 -
We've identified many of the root causes throughout the thread. Poverty, gang culture, racism, collapse of the family structure, and a failed education system would top my list.inmytree said:
I agree...excuse making is easy...so is blaming, judging, and assuming....JimmyV said:
Its also easy for people to make excuses. They had nothing to lose very quickly becomes they didn't care they had something to lose.inmytree said:
if you really think those folks sat back and thought "oh my, CVS may never come back and we may lose some vital resources if we act badly" you're missing something, you may see it as a loss...they didn't....JimmyV said:
Except they did have something to lose. Are those businesses coming back? Is the pharmacy with the walk-in clinic coming back? That was a resource that is now potentially lost forever and certainly lost for the foreseeable future.inmytree said:
perhaps...I know it's a hard to conceptualize...Last-12-Exit said:
Do you really need an education to know that vandalizing, stealing, and setting fires is wrong?inmytree said:
Yeah, it's hard to understand...what I do understand is that not everyone has the same education, support, and norms as I do...therefore...when events such as this happen, it will be difficult to understand...JimmyV said:Never understood looting and burning your own neighborhood. Never will.
what we can all do is look for the root factors...then we can begin to understand...
BOOM!!!!
anyhoo...if the cops would have put that fella in an ambulance instead of a police van, we would be talking about something else...
and I give zero fucks about is his race or record or why he was arrested...the dude was hurt, get him medical attention at the scene...it's that simple...
I also mentioned norms and support...those are factors too...
anyhoo...I'd be willing to bet many of the rioters knew it was "wrong"....they didn't care...when you've got nothing to lose...you make different choices...
it's easy for folks to judge and monday-morning-QB when they use their own life experiences and project their own thinking and norms on others...
to be honest, I couldn't read this entire thread...too much junk in it...
the hard part is stepping back and looking for the root cause and real problem....
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
cool...glad we're on the same page...my aplogies for not reading he entire thread...JimmyV said:
We've identified many of the root causes throughout the thread. Poverty, gang culture, racism, collapse of the family structure, and a failed education system would top my list.inmytree said:
I agree...excuse making is easy...so is blaming, judging, and assuming....JimmyV said:
Its also easy for people to make excuses. They had nothing to lose very quickly becomes they didn't care they had something to lose.inmytree said:
if you really think those folks sat back and thought "oh my, CVS may never come back and we may lose some vital resources if we act badly" you're missing something, you may see it as a loss...they didn't....JimmyV said:
Except they did have something to lose. Are those businesses coming back? Is the pharmacy with the walk-in clinic coming back? That was a resource that is now potentially lost forever and certainly lost for the foreseeable future.inmytree said:
perhaps...I know it's a hard to conceptualize...Last-12-Exit said:
Do you really need an education to know that vandalizing, stealing, and setting fires is wrong?inmytree said:
Yeah, it's hard to understand...what I do understand is that not everyone has the same education, support, and norms as I do...therefore...when events such as this happen, it will be difficult to understand...JimmyV said:Never understood looting and burning your own neighborhood. Never will.
what we can all do is look for the root factors...then we can begin to understand...
BOOM!!!!
anyhoo...if the cops would have put that fella in an ambulance instead of a police van, we would be talking about something else...
and I give zero fucks about is his race or record or why he was arrested...the dude was hurt, get him medical attention at the scene...it's that simple...
I also mentioned norms and support...those are factors too...
anyhoo...I'd be willing to bet many of the rioters knew it was "wrong"....they didn't care...when you've got nothing to lose...you make different choices...
it's easy for folks to judge and monday-morning-QB when they use their own life experiences and project their own thinking and norms on others...
to be honest, I couldn't read this entire thread...too much junk in it...
the hard part is stepping back and looking for the root cause and real problem....
I'll shut up now...
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No apologies necessary! :-)inmytree said:
cool...glad we're on the same page...my aplogies for not reading he entire thread...JimmyV said:
We've identified many of the root causes throughout the thread. Poverty, gang culture, racism, collapse of the family structure, and a failed education system would top my list.inmytree said:
I agree...excuse making is easy...so is blaming, judging, and assuming....JimmyV said:
Its also easy for people to make excuses. They had nothing to lose very quickly becomes they didn't care they had something to lose.inmytree said:
if you really think those folks sat back and thought "oh my, CVS may never come back and we may lose some vital resources if we act badly" you're missing something, you may see it as a loss...they didn't....JimmyV said:
Except they did have something to lose. Are those businesses coming back? Is the pharmacy with the walk-in clinic coming back? That was a resource that is now potentially lost forever and certainly lost for the foreseeable future.inmytree said:
perhaps...I know it's a hard to conceptualize...Last-12-Exit said:
Do you really need an education to know that vandalizing, stealing, and setting fires is wrong?inmytree said:
Yeah, it's hard to understand...what I do understand is that not everyone has the same education, support, and norms as I do...therefore...when events such as this happen, it will be difficult to understand...JimmyV said:Never understood looting and burning your own neighborhood. Never will.
what we can all do is look for the root factors...then we can begin to understand...
BOOM!!!!
anyhoo...if the cops would have put that fella in an ambulance instead of a police van, we would be talking about something else...
and I give zero fucks about is his race or record or why he was arrested...the dude was hurt, get him medical attention at the scene...it's that simple...
I also mentioned norms and support...those are factors too...
anyhoo...I'd be willing to bet many of the rioters knew it was "wrong"....they didn't care...when you've got nothing to lose...you make different choices...
it's easy for folks to judge and monday-morning-QB when they use their own life experiences and project their own thinking and norms on others...
to be honest, I couldn't read this entire thread...too much junk in it...
the hard part is stepping back and looking for the root cause and real problem....
I'll shut up now...
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Why what? You can break this down however you want. Blame race, poverty, police abuse and it still all boils down to poor decisions. Not just by the looters, but by the Baltimore police and the local government.dignin said:
We got it, rioting is wrong. They knew it was wrong, yet still did it. Thankfully some here are starting to ask why. Then we will get to the root of it.Last-12-Exit said:
Do you really need an education to know that vandalizing, stealing, and setting fires is wrong?inmytree said:
Yeah, it's hard to understand...what I do understand is that not everyone has the same education, support, and norms as I do...therefore...when events such as this happen, it will be difficult to understand...JimmyV said:Never understood looting and burning your own neighborhood. Never will.
what we can all do is look for the root factors...then we can begin to understand...
BOOM!!!!
anyhoo...if the cops would have put that fella in an ambulance instead of a police van, we would be talking about something else...
and I give zero fucks about is his race or record or why he was arrested...the dude was hurt, get him medical attention at the scene...it's that simple...
What was Freddy Gray being arrested for in the first place? I don't know if I've ever heard.0 -
I saw this posted on fb by an old friend of the board - Cree Nations, a while ago. Not sure if it's been posted here or not, but if you want the downlow on why there is such a thing as white privilege, this vid is very eye opening.
400 YEAR HEAD START
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JErESW-CQI
SOme of the programs mentioned:
Headright program – 1630’s-1640’s….50 acres of land and the tools to work it given to whites only.
1862 – homestead act. Millions of acres given to whites.
An estimated 20-50 million white people are still living on the lands handed to their ancestors.
1930’s – 1960’s – FHA’s first home loan programs….guaranteed by taxes….in reality, not available to blacks due to 'redlining' practices not outlawed until 1968.
New Deal excluded most blacks - structured in a way that agricultural and union incentives resulted in many blacks losing their jobs and unable to find work.
Social security – first 20 years excluded 80% of blacks - didn’t cover agricultural labourers or domestic workers, which encompassed 75% of blacks. (Initiated by southern democrats, btw, for our partisan friends)
These disadvantages, while starting as long as 400 years ago (along with the fact that it was a bit of a disadvantage to be a f'n slave), have effects that reverberate today: Our 'big' government created the middle class through socialist programs (largely at the expense of native americans) ; hand-outs to whites only. The white-only middle class was propped up by programs that didn't help black people due to their social standings at the times the programs were initiated.
The talk continues by detailing discrimination toward minorities in the workforce - comparing similarly educated minorities to their white counterparts.
To me, this shows that poverty can't be held above racism as the leading cause for what we're seeing in Baltimore; racism is at the core of much of the poverty we see today. The two issues are completely intertwined, it's not a straight up chicken or egg scenario. Even if we hit a socio-economic reset button today, and everything in our society was completely on par for all races, blacks and other minorities would be at a huge disadvantage due to the levels of wealth passed down from previous generations - wealth that was largely accumulated by past racist policy.
Post edited by Drowned Out on0 -
Thanks for explaining some of the history here drowned. You can't prepare for the future unless you understand the past.Drowned Out said:I saw this posted on fb by an old friend of the board - Cree Nations, a while ago. Not sure if it's been posted here or not, but if you want the downlow on why there is such a thing as white privilege, this vid is very eye opening.
400 YEAR HEAD STARThttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JErESW-CQI
SOme of the programs mentioned:
Headright program – 1630’s-1640’s….50 acres of land and the tools to work it given to whites only.
1862 – homestead act. Millions of acres given to whites.
An estimated 20-50 million white people are still living on the lands handed to their ancestors.
1930’s – 1960’s – FHA’s first home loan programs….guaranteed by taxes….in reality, not available to blacks due to 'redlining' practices not outlawed until 1968.
New Deal excluded most blacks - structured in a way that agricultural and union incentives resulted in many blacks losing their jobs and unable to find work.
Social security – first 20 years excluded 80% of blacks - didn’t cover agricultural labourers or domestic workers, which encompassed 75% of blacks. (Initiated by southern democrats, btw, for our partisan friends)
These disadvantages, while starting as long as 400 years ago (along with the fact that it was a bit of a disadvantage to be a f'n slave), have effects that reverberate today: Our 'big' government created the middle class through socialist programs (largely at the expense of native americans) ; hand-outs to whites only. The white-only middle class was propped up by programs that didn't help black people due to their social standings at the times the programs were initiated.
The talk continues by detailing discrimination toward minorities in the workforce - comparing similarly educated minorities to their white counterparts.
To me, this shows that poverty can't be held above racism as the leading cause for what we're seeing in Baltimore; racism is at the core of much of the poverty we see today. The two issues are completely intertwined, it's not a straight up chicken or egg scenario. Even if we hit a socio-economic reset button today, and everything in our society was completely on par for all races, blacks and other minorities would be at a huge disadvantage due to the levels of wealth passed down from previous generations - wealth that was largely accumulated by past racist policy.
I posted an article that went into the affects that segregation has had on the black community, these affects are still being felt today, if not compounded. No surprise that it was ignored because it doesn't fit into some peoples out look on life. Hope your post can gain more traction.
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Honestly not sure what kind of response you are hoping for. That article feels like a reassessment of the discussion we've had for eleven pages. Has anyone seriously (key word) argued that there is no such thing as white privilege? That Baltimore is not disadvantaged? That these are not complicated issues with a long history?dignin said:
I posted an article that went into the affects that segregation has had on the black community, these affects are still being felt today, if not compounded. No surprise that it was ignored because it doesn't fit into some peoples out look on life. Hope your post can gain more traction.
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
I was hoping for an honest discussion about the root problems, which we seem to be having now. Time and time again on this thread I and others have been accused of making excuses and showing sympathy (apologizing) for the rioters for trying to say that these riots are rooted in something more than just criminals, gangsters, thugs looking to steal. Lets not pretend that that's not what happened. Those posters seem to have faded away now given evidence that contradicts their bias. I suggest you take another quick read of the thread from the start, I did.JimmyV said:
Honestly not sure what kind of response you are hoping for. That article feels like a reassessment of the discussion we've had for eleven pages. Has anyone seriously (key word) argued that there is no such thing as white privilege? That Baltimore is not disadvantaged? That these are not complicated issues with a long history?dignin said:
I posted an article that went into the affects that segregation has had on the black community, these affects are still being felt today, if not compounded. No surprise that it was ignored because it doesn't fit into some peoples out look on life. Hope your post can gain more traction.
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Worth the time to read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/opinion/nicholas-kristof-when-baltimore-burned.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region®ion=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/opinion/charles-blow-violence-in-baltimore.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region®ion=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Let's also not forget that most criminals are opportunist.0
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As are most politicians, and many in the media.Last-12-Exit said:Let's also not forget that most criminals are opportunist.
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Let's also not forget that most criminals are opportunist.
Yes, and sometimes it's hard to differentiate between them.JimmyV said:
As are most politicians, and many in the media.Last-12-Exit said:Let's also not forget that most criminals are opportunist.
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https://fbcdn-photos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-0/10858512_918008088259321_1055320275254053809_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=815db6b47b7188b19f458b136a1ad4cb&oe=55C8FB5C&__gda__=1440133348_d85cae2ebdaa892b0c43863c3ab71aaa
Did they really not notice the mistake here or am I missing something?Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Lol. That's pretty funny.rgambs said:https://fbcdn-photos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-0/10858512_918008088259321_1055320275254053809_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=815db6b47b7188b19f458b136a1ad4cb&oe=55C8FB5C&__gda__=1440133348_d85cae2ebdaa892b0c43863c3ab71aaa
Did they really not notice the mistake here or am I missing something?
I'm pretty sure it's just matter.0 -
When Ferguson happened there were calls for the mayor, police chief, and DA to resign. Do you think the same should be said for Baltimore's leadership? I for one think the mayor is out of her league, and with her using Rev Al as a advisor I question her more now.96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II0 -
Maybe it was the stress of the goings-on, but watching her speak, she struck me as a bit of a deer in the headlights.Dirtie_Frank said:When Ferguson happened there were calls for the mayor, police chief, and DA to resign. Do you think the same should be said for Baltimore's leadership? I for one think the mayor is out of her league, and with her using Rev Al as a advisor I question her more now.
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Which is BAD for a mayor in that position.hedonist said:
Maybe it was the stress of the goings-on, but watching her speak, she struck me as a bit of a deer in the headlights.Dirtie_Frank said:When Ferguson happened there were calls for the mayor, police chief, and DA to resign. Do you think the same should be said for Baltimore's leadership? I for one think the mayor is out of her league, and with her using Rev Al as a advisor I question her more now.
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."0
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