Meanwhile back in Israel

nicknyr15

static111 said:

nicknyr15 said:

Bullshit aside… I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are on that BLM post. 

You can stand with Palestine and be against hamas.  That's my view anyway

Seems logical but are we seeing a lot of that happening? 

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Somehow Linda knew this place was Hamas central, she is smarter than me. Of course the story with 40 babies was a lie because according to AMT, it’s from a shady news source. Well the cnn story below is horrific enough. Yea, AMT. that’s  comparable to checkpoints, limiting social interaction to incur violence, and monitoring borders to identify weapons smuggling.



You cannot say “ignore the fact Palestine refuses Israel’s right to exist “ and its land is occupied. The security measures exist for that fact alone. It goes no further than that despite whatever extremist liberal organizations want you to believe. Any North American would expect those security measures if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door


It’s unreal the bias here is on a level with maga. The liberal news channels are nothing like this forum, it is stunning. Id be embarrassed frankly if I owned this forum. Every pro israeli point shot down with almost complete ignorance of facts and history. Both sides need to honestly negotiate here, and that comment got attacked repeatedly this week by the pro Hamas contingent.

Blame Israel for Arab extremism and Palestinian violations of signed treaties, yet Israel should exit West Bank, a land they somehow lived peacefully in before the Roman ethnic cleansing and forced relocation for thousands of years , which seems acceptable to this place. Israel having zero rights to their historical land has another name, Arab extremism.

 Israel needs a partner to negotiate peace in good faith. Peace needs give and take. Plenty israeli supporters dislike Netanyahu , but with Hamas at its borders it seems easy to visualize why they went so extreme to the right. Any North American would expect those security measure if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door, worth repeating every word.

Only one commenter on this forum has been discussing peace treaties and the importance of negotiation.


this conflict remains simple. Peace thru negotiations or peace thru terrorism. It is palestines responsibility to be represented by honest leadership willing to work towards peace. Hopefully Egypt and Jordan can assist with that.


From cnn

‘Murdered in cold blood’: stories emerge of Israelis killed at Gaza border

Friends and relatives say Hamas killed a grandmother, parents protecting their children, and an entire  family during raids

As the hours passed, another horrific account emerged from the same kibbutz. Relatives of an as-yet-unnamed woman said their grandmother had been murdered by the militants, who then filmed her dying moments and posted them on her Facebook page.

I really don't get where your outrage is coming from. No one on here is supporting what Hamas did/is doing.

Below is a factually incorrect comment of yours. Free Palestine is a cry of their people, from the river to the sea. That is what created this mess. that is an irrefutable fact.

…

I can't say I'm 100% up on the history of the conflict but I know that Israel basically took a bunch of land from Palestine upon the failure of the attack in 1948. Repelling the attack was absolutely justified but taking the land that they had has created this mess. Just give it the fuck back and give them access to the…

That isn't a statement that supports Hamas.

It's also not factually incorrect.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=One of the two envisaged,population fled or were expelled.

I am not sure you are addressing the river to the sea comment. That is the simplest problem both sides face.

we can go back and forth, both sides are right and wrong in cases of war. But peace cannot happen until both sides start off by recognizing the other,  and land cannot be peacefully shared until both sides want peace thru negotiation. To ignore one sides historical claims here, which was fully supported by the 1917 land owners, is just a horrific extreme position, which is spouted endlessly on this forum.

So I’ll play along, now go back to 1917 and tell me the then land owners position was of this territory. And let’s forgive their 30 year delay with two world wars they had to fight off in their homeland and hitlers bombshell.

we agree that this shouldn't be happening right now...that's what is important

And it's getting much worse now that the northern border is splitting Israel's defense

My guess is that some US airstrikes are imminent

Let’s hope not, that would be scary. We need leaders in Palestine willing to negotiate and share. Both peoples have ancient claims to the West Bank. Anyone posting here that Israel can not have access to certain historical areas of West Bank is misguided, despite the USA not vetoing certain UN Resolutions that were a hope for peace, for which the Palestinians never held up their side

I hope those who like to yell out the O word realize there is a lot of sketchiness to the application of the Geneva conventions in those UN actions, and plenty of resolutions were outright vetoed by the USA. Both sides need to recognize the other has valid claims to West Bank, sit down and sign another treaty but this time follow it.

as far as Gaza goes, Israel has been begging Egypt to take it over for the better part of 15 years. Not even they want to deal with Gaza. For anyone yelling the O word, take a long look at what happened Saturday. That’s what happens when Israel withdraws. They were invaded many times from the West Bank up to 1967, none since they implemented security measures.

So stop claiming Israel’s hands are clean in this dispute. They’ve committed their fair share of atrocities over the past 65 years.

Halifax2TheMax

static111 said:

nicknyr15 said:

Bullshit aside… I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are on that BLM post. 

You can stand with Palestine and be against hamas.  That's my view anyway

Oh no you can’t. You’re either with us or the terrorists. Heard a former POTUS, while POTUS, say as much.

tbergs

nicknyr15 said:

static111 said:

nicknyr15 said:

Bullshit aside… I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are on that BLM post. 

You can stand with Palestine and be against hamas.  That's my view anyway

Seems logical but are we seeing a lot of that happening? 

Those who have stated any support for Palestine seem to be getting berated about it. There was also a group of Harvard students who issued a statement supporting Palestine by blaming Israel for all violence based on their actions the past 75 years. I'm not on board with a blanket statement completely blaming Israel, but I also understand why some view it that way. There are people who see Palestine as only a victim of oppression so their actions are justified because they're trying to break free from under Israel's rule. I think it's much more complicated than that and I get frustrated by those who try to pigeon hole people in to choosing a side. Saying you support Palestine isn't supporting the actions of militants with Hamas anymore than me saying I support the US even though I know our military/government has committed numerous atrocities the past 200 hundred plus years. There are way more people caught up in the middle who are paying the price for the actions of the few.

This may be unpopular, but I think the US should be careful with any military aid we provide because I don't know how calculated Israel is being with their attacks and innocent lives are at stake. Based on the death toll statistics of past conflicts, it seems quite clear that Israel has a far superior military advantage already.

Anyway, war isn't the answer, but there are a lot of pieces to connect before leaders from each side can come to the table to make peace. I don't know that an agreement will ever be reached because of the extremists who will not stop lashing out until they get what they want.

Lerxst1992

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Somehow Linda knew this place was Hamas central, she is smarter than me. Of course the story with 40 babies was a lie because according to AMT, it’s from a shady news source. Well the cnn story below is horrific enough. Yea, AMT. that’s  comparable to checkpoints, limiting social interaction to incur violence, and monitoring borders to identify weapons smuggling.



You cannot say “ignore the fact Palestine refuses Israel’s right to exist “ and its land is occupied. The security measures exist for that fact alone. It goes no further than that despite whatever extremist liberal organizations want you to believe. Any North American would expect those security measures if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door


It’s unreal the bias here is on a level with maga. The liberal news channels are nothing like this forum, it is stunning. Id be embarrassed frankly if I owned this forum. Every pro israeli point shot down with almost complete ignorance of facts and history. Both sides need to honestly negotiate here, and that comment got attacked repeatedly this week by the pro Hamas contingent.

Blame Israel for Arab extremism and Palestinian violations of signed treaties, yet Israel should exit West Bank, a land they somehow lived peacefully in before the Roman ethnic cleansing and forced relocation for thousands of years , which seems acceptable to this place. Israel having zero rights to their historical land has another name, Arab extremism.

 Israel needs a partner to negotiate peace in good faith. Peace needs give and take. Plenty israeli supporters dislike Netanyahu , but with Hamas at its borders it seems easy to visualize why they went so extreme to the right. Any North American would expect those security measure if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door, worth repeating every word.

Only one commenter on this forum has been discussing peace treaties and the importance of negotiation.


this conflict remains simple. Peace thru negotiations or peace thru terrorism. It is palestines responsibility to be represented by honest leadership willing to work towards peace. Hopefully Egypt and Jordan can assist with that.


From cnn

‘Murdered in cold blood’: stories emerge of Israelis killed at Gaza border

Friends and relatives say Hamas killed a grandmother, parents protecting their children, and an entire  family during raids

As the hours passed, another horrific account emerged from the same kibbutz. Relatives of an as-yet-unnamed woman said their grandmother had been murdered by the militants, who then filmed her dying moments and posted them on her Facebook page.

I really don't get where your outrage is coming from. No one on here is supporting what Hamas did/is doing.

Below is a factually incorrect comment of yours. Free Palestine is a cry of their people, from the river to the sea. That is what created this mess. that is an irrefutable fact.

…

I can't say I'm 100% up on the history of the conflict but I know that Israel basically took a bunch of land from Palestine upon the failure of the attack in 1948. Repelling the attack was absolutely justified but taking the land that they had has created this mess. Just give it the fuck back and give them access to the…

That isn't a statement that supports Hamas.

It's also not factually incorrect.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=One of the two envisaged,population fled or were expelled.

I am not sure you are addressing the river to the sea comment. That is the simplest problem both sides face.

we can go back and forth, both sides are right and wrong in cases of war. But peace cannot happen until both sides start off by recognizing the other,  and land cannot be peacefully shared until both sides want peace thru negotiation. To ignore one sides historical claims here, which was fully supported by the 1917 land owners, is just a horrific extreme position, which is spouted endlessly on this forum.

So I’ll play along, now go back to 1917 and tell me the then land owners position was of this territory. And let’s forgive their 30 year delay with two world wars they had to fight off in their homeland and hitlers bombshell.

we agree that this shouldn't be happening right now...that's what is important

And it's getting much worse now that the northern border is splitting Israel's defense

My guess is that some US airstrikes are imminent

Let’s hope not, that would be scary. We need leaders in Palestine willing to negotiate and share. Both peoples have ancient claims to the West Bank. Anyone posting here that Israel can not have access to certain historical areas of West Bank is misguided, despite the USA not vetoing certain UN Resolutions that were a hope for peace, for which the Palestinians never held up their side

I hope those who like to yell out the O word realize there is a lot of sketchiness to the application of the Geneva conventions in those UN actions, and plenty of resolutions were outright vetoed by the USA. Both sides need to recognize the other has valid claims to West Bank, sit down and sign another treaty but this time follow it.

as far as Gaza goes, Israel has been begging Egypt to take it over for the better part of 15 years. Not even they want to deal with Gaza. For anyone yelling the O word, take a long look at what happened Saturday. That’s what happens when Israel withdraws. They were invaded many times from the West Bank up to 1967, none since they implemented security measures.

So stop claiming Israel’s hands are clean in this dispute. They’ve committed their fair share of atrocities over the past 65 years.

Are you putting words in my mouth oh wise one? Did you think saturdays terrorist attack was funny, because your first comment was a joke about the attack on Saturday.

go take a look at this topic on Saturday, almost zero sympathy for the victims, and phrases like “”Israeli terrorists” were rampant here on Saturday and griping about the O word. This forum should be embarrassed for citing the complexities of the West Bank settlements at a time like this, especially on Saturday. Behavior similar to what trump did on 9/11, making jokes in the face of terrorism.

on Monday I said peace thru negotiations or peace thru terror. That was met with attacks here.

tbergs

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Somehow Linda knew this place was Hamas central, she is smarter than me. Of course the story with 40 babies was a lie because according to AMT, it’s from a shady news source. Well the cnn story below is horrific enough. Yea, AMT. that’s  comparable to checkpoints, limiting social interaction to incur violence, and monitoring borders to identify weapons smuggling.



You cannot say “ignore the fact Palestine refuses Israel’s right to exist “ and its land is occupied. The security measures exist for that fact alone. It goes no further than that despite whatever extremist liberal organizations want you to believe. Any North American would expect those security measures if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door


It’s unreal the bias here is on a level with maga. The liberal news channels are nothing like this forum, it is stunning. Id be embarrassed frankly if I owned this forum. Every pro israeli point shot down with almost complete ignorance of facts and history. Both sides need to honestly negotiate here, and that comment got attacked repeatedly this week by the pro Hamas contingent.

Blame Israel for Arab extremism and Palestinian violations of signed treaties, yet Israel should exit West Bank, a land they somehow lived peacefully in before the Roman ethnic cleansing and forced relocation for thousands of years , which seems acceptable to this place. Israel having zero rights to their historical land has another name, Arab extremism.

 Israel needs a partner to negotiate peace in good faith. Peace needs give and take. Plenty israeli supporters dislike Netanyahu , but with Hamas at its borders it seems easy to visualize why they went so extreme to the right. Any North American would expect those security measure if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door, worth repeating every word.

Only one commenter on this forum has been discussing peace treaties and the importance of negotiation.


this conflict remains simple. Peace thru negotiations or peace thru terrorism. It is palestines responsibility to be represented by honest leadership willing to work towards peace. Hopefully Egypt and Jordan can assist with that.


From cnn

‘Murdered in cold blood’: stories emerge of Israelis killed at Gaza border

Friends and relatives say Hamas killed a grandmother, parents protecting their children, and an entire  family during raids

As the hours passed, another horrific account emerged from the same kibbutz. Relatives of an as-yet-unnamed woman said their grandmother had been murdered by the militants, who then filmed her dying moments and posted them on her Facebook page.

I really don't get where your outrage is coming from. No one on here is supporting what Hamas did/is doing.

Below is a factually incorrect comment of yours. Free Palestine is a cry of their people, from the river to the sea. That is what created this mess. that is an irrefutable fact.

…

I can't say I'm 100% up on the history of the conflict but I know that Israel basically took a bunch of land from Palestine upon the failure of the attack in 1948. Repelling the attack was absolutely justified but taking the land that they had has created this mess. Just give it the fuck back and give them access to the…

That isn't a statement that supports Hamas.

It's also not factually incorrect.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=One of the two envisaged,population fled or were expelled.

I am not sure you are addressing the river to the sea comment. That is the simplest problem both sides face.

we can go back and forth, both sides are right and wrong in cases of war. But peace cannot happen until both sides start off by recognizing the other,  and land cannot be peacefully shared until both sides want peace thru negotiation. To ignore one sides historical claims here, which was fully supported by the 1917 land owners, is just a horrific extreme position, which is spouted endlessly on this forum.

So I’ll play along, now go back to 1917 and tell me the then land owners position was of this territory. And let’s forgive their 30 year delay with two world wars they had to fight off in their homeland and hitlers bombshell.

we agree that this shouldn't be happening right now...that's what is important

And it's getting much worse now that the northern border is splitting Israel's defense

My guess is that some US airstrikes are imminent

Let’s hope not, that would be scary. We need leaders in Palestine willing to negotiate and share. Both peoples have ancient claims to the West Bank. Anyone posting here that Israel can not have access to certain historical areas of West Bank is misguided, despite the USA not vetoing certain UN Resolutions that were a hope for peace, for which the Palestinians never held up their side

I hope those who like to yell out the O word realize there is a lot of sketchiness to the application of the Geneva conventions in those UN actions, and plenty of resolutions were outright vetoed by the USA. Both sides need to recognize the other has valid claims to West Bank, sit down and sign another treaty but this time follow it.

as far as Gaza goes, Israel has been begging Egypt to take it over for the better part of 15 years. Not even they want to deal with Gaza. For anyone yelling the O word, take a long look at what happened Saturday. That’s what happens when Israel withdraws. They were invaded many times from the West Bank up to 1967, none since they implemented security measures.

So stop claiming Israel’s hands are clean in this dispute. They’ve committed their fair share of atrocities over the past 65 years.

Are you putting words in my mouth oh wise one? Did you think saturdays terrorist attack was funny, because your first comment was a joke about the attack on Saturday.

go take a look at this topic on Saturday, almost zero sympathy for the victims, and phrases like “”Israeli terrorists” were rampant here on Saturday and griping about the O word. This forum should be embarrassed for citing the complexities of the West Bank settlements at a time like this, especially on Saturday. Behavior similar to what trump did on 9/11, making jokes in the face of terrorism.

on Monday I said peace thru negotiations or peace thru terror. That was met with attacks here.

With all due respect, but I don't think you have been attacked on here. You seem to be standing your ground quite well and at times, I'd say you've been the one shutting other people down, not vice-versa. A lot of people don't want to speak out when they know you're going to slap their hand if they say anything contrary to what you're presenting. Just an observation. 

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Somehow Linda knew this place was Hamas central, she is smarter than me. Of course the story with 40 babies was a lie because according to AMT, it’s from a shady news source. Well the cnn story below is horrific enough. Yea, AMT. that’s  comparable to checkpoints, limiting social interaction to incur violence, and monitoring borders to identify weapons smuggling.



You cannot say “ignore the fact Palestine refuses Israel’s right to exist “ and its land is occupied. The security measures exist for that fact alone. It goes no further than that despite whatever extremist liberal organizations want you to believe. Any North American would expect those security measures if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door


It’s unreal the bias here is on a level with maga. The liberal news channels are nothing like this forum, it is stunning. Id be embarrassed frankly if I owned this forum. Every pro israeli point shot down with almost complete ignorance of facts and history. Both sides need to honestly negotiate here, and that comment got attacked repeatedly this week by the pro Hamas contingent.

Blame Israel for Arab extremism and Palestinian violations of signed treaties, yet Israel should exit West Bank, a land they somehow lived peacefully in before the Roman ethnic cleansing and forced relocation for thousands of years , which seems acceptable to this place. Israel having zero rights to their historical land has another name, Arab extremism.

 Israel needs a partner to negotiate peace in good faith. Peace needs give and take. Plenty israeli supporters dislike Netanyahu , but with Hamas at its borders it seems easy to visualize why they went so extreme to the right. Any North American would expect those security measure if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door, worth repeating every word.

Only one commenter on this forum has been discussing peace treaties and the importance of negotiation.


this conflict remains simple. Peace thru negotiations or peace thru terrorism. It is palestines responsibility to be represented by honest leadership willing to work towards peace. Hopefully Egypt and Jordan can assist with that.


From cnn

‘Murdered in cold blood’: stories emerge of Israelis killed at Gaza border

Friends and relatives say Hamas killed a grandmother, parents protecting their children, and an entire  family during raids

As the hours passed, another horrific account emerged from the same kibbutz. Relatives of an as-yet-unnamed woman said their grandmother had been murdered by the militants, who then filmed her dying moments and posted them on her Facebook page.

I really don't get where your outrage is coming from. No one on here is supporting what Hamas did/is doing.

Below is a factually incorrect comment of yours. Free Palestine is a cry of their people, from the river to the sea. That is what created this mess. that is an irrefutable fact.

…

I can't say I'm 100% up on the history of the conflict but I know that Israel basically took a bunch of land from Palestine upon the failure of the attack in 1948. Repelling the attack was absolutely justified but taking the land that they had has created this mess. Just give it the fuck back and give them access to the…

That isn't a statement that supports Hamas.

It's also not factually incorrect.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=One of the two envisaged,population fled or were expelled.

I am not sure you are addressing the river to the sea comment. That is the simplest problem both sides face.

we can go back and forth, both sides are right and wrong in cases of war. But peace cannot happen until both sides start off by recognizing the other,  and land cannot be peacefully shared until both sides want peace thru negotiation. To ignore one sides historical claims here, which was fully supported by the 1917 land owners, is just a horrific extreme position, which is spouted endlessly on this forum.

So I’ll play along, now go back to 1917 and tell me the then land owners position was of this territory. And let’s forgive their 30 year delay with two world wars they had to fight off in their homeland and hitlers bombshell.

we agree that this shouldn't be happening right now...that's what is important

And it's getting much worse now that the northern border is splitting Israel's defense

My guess is that some US airstrikes are imminent

Let’s hope not, that would be scary. We need leaders in Palestine willing to negotiate and share. Both peoples have ancient claims to the West Bank. Anyone posting here that Israel can not have access to certain historical areas of West Bank is misguided, despite the USA not vetoing certain UN Resolutions that were a hope for peace, for which the Palestinians never held up their side

I hope those who like to yell out the O word realize there is a lot of sketchiness to the application of the Geneva conventions in those UN actions, and plenty of resolutions were outright vetoed by the USA. Both sides need to recognize the other has valid claims to West Bank, sit down and sign another treaty but this time follow it.

as far as Gaza goes, Israel has been begging Egypt to take it over for the better part of 15 years. Not even they want to deal with Gaza. For anyone yelling the O word, take a long look at what happened Saturday. That’s what happens when Israel withdraws. They were invaded many times from the West Bank up to 1967, none since they implemented security measures.

So stop claiming Israel’s hands are clean in this dispute. They’ve committed their fair share of atrocities over the past 65 years.

Are you putting words in my mouth oh wise one? Did you think saturdays terrorist attack was funny, because your first comment was a joke about the attack on Saturday.

go take a look at this topic on Saturday, almost zero sympathy for the victims, and phrases like “”Israeli terrorists” were rampant here on Saturday and griping about the O word. This forum should be embarrassed for citing the complexities of the West Bank settlements at a time like this, especially on Saturday. Behavior similar to what trump did on 9/11, making jokes in the face of terrorism.

on Monday I said peace thru negotiations or peace thru terror. That was met with attacks here.

What's the O word?

I do know the "Oh Face"

mickeyrat

op-ed gift article

https://wapo.st/45r6gFG 

  Opinion | The Hamas horror is also a lesson on the price of populism
Opinion by Yuval Noah Harari
October 11, 2023 at 10:54 ET
Yuval Noah Harari is the author of “Sapiens,” “Homo Deus” and “Unstoppable Us” and a professor of history at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
Israelis are struggling to understand what has just hit us. We first compared the current disaster to the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Fifty years ago, the armies of Egypt and Syria launched a surprise attack and inflicted on Israel a string of military defeats, before the Israel Defense Forces regrouped, regained the initiative and turned the tables.
But as more and more horrific stories and images emerge about the massacre of entire communities, it dawned on us that what has happened is nothing like the Yom Kippur War. In newspapers, on social media and in family gatherings, people are making comparisons to the Jewish people’s darkest hours — as when the mobile killing units of the Nazi Einsatzgruppen surrounded and murdered Jewish villagers during the Holocaust, and when pogroms were waged against Jews in the Russian Empire.
I personally have family and friends in the kibbutzim Be’eri and Kfar Aza, and have heard many horrifying stories. Hamas had full control of these two communities for hours. The terrorists went from house to house, systematically murdering families, killing parents in front of their children and taking hostages, even babies and grandmothers. Terrified survivors locked themselves inside cupboards and cellars, calling to the army and police for help that failed to come until, often, too late.
My 99-year-old uncle and his 89-year-old wife are members of Be’eri. All contact with them was cut shortly after Hamas took over the kibbutz. They hid in their house for hours as dozens of terrorists went rampaging and butchering. I received word that they survived. I know many people who have just received the worst news of their lives.

continues.....

mickeyrat

wonder what the debris is like from this system of defense.....

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1712198474525983203?t=BCF0PzMqAkjzIpqFsX76vQ&s=19

nicknyr15

https://nypost.com/2023/10/11/richie-torres-rips-dsa-rally-apology-as-despicable/

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/reglash/status/1712153193453379734?t=bz19fVMtTY-W2fC0he0kDg&s=19

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Somehow Linda knew this place was Hamas central, she is smarter than me. Of course the story with 40 babies was a lie because according to AMT, it’s from a shady news source. Well the cnn story below is horrific enough. Yea, AMT. that’s  comparable to checkpoints, limiting social interaction to incur violence, and monitoring borders to identify weapons smuggling.



You cannot say “ignore the fact Palestine refuses Israel’s right to exist “ and its land is occupied. The security measures exist for that fact alone. It goes no further than that despite whatever extremist liberal organizations want you to believe. Any North American would expect those security measures if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door


It’s unreal the bias here is on a level with maga. The liberal news channels are nothing like this forum, it is stunning. Id be embarrassed frankly if I owned this forum. Every pro israeli point shot down with almost complete ignorance of facts and history. Both sides need to honestly negotiate here, and that comment got attacked repeatedly this week by the pro Hamas contingent.

Blame Israel for Arab extremism and Palestinian violations of signed treaties, yet Israel should exit West Bank, a land they somehow lived peacefully in before the Roman ethnic cleansing and forced relocation for thousands of years , which seems acceptable to this place. Israel having zero rights to their historical land has another name, Arab extremism.

 Israel needs a partner to negotiate peace in good faith. Peace needs give and take. Plenty israeli supporters dislike Netanyahu , but with Hamas at its borders it seems easy to visualize why they went so extreme to the right. Any North American would expect those security measure if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door, worth repeating every word.

Only one commenter on this forum has been discussing peace treaties and the importance of negotiation.


this conflict remains simple. Peace thru negotiations or peace thru terrorism. It is palestines responsibility to be represented by honest leadership willing to work towards peace. Hopefully Egypt and Jordan can assist with that.


From cnn

‘Murdered in cold blood’: stories emerge of Israelis killed at Gaza border

Friends and relatives say Hamas killed a grandmother, parents protecting their children, and an entire  family during raids

As the hours passed, another horrific account emerged from the same kibbutz. Relatives of an as-yet-unnamed woman said their grandmother had been murdered by the militants, who then filmed her dying moments and posted them on her Facebook page.

I really don't get where your outrage is coming from. No one on here is supporting what Hamas did/is doing.

Below is a factually incorrect comment of yours. Free Palestine is a cry of their people, from the river to the sea. That is what created this mess. that is an irrefutable fact.

…

I can't say I'm 100% up on the history of the conflict but I know that Israel basically took a bunch of land from Palestine upon the failure of the attack in 1948. Repelling the attack was absolutely justified but taking the land that they had has created this mess. Just give it the fuck back and give them access to the…

That isn't a statement that supports Hamas.

It's also not factually incorrect.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=One of the two envisaged,population fled or were expelled.

I am not sure you are addressing the river to the sea comment. That is the simplest problem both sides face.

we can go back and forth, both sides are right and wrong in cases of war. But peace cannot happen until both sides start off by recognizing the other,  and land cannot be peacefully shared until both sides want peace thru negotiation. To ignore one sides historical claims here, which was fully supported by the 1917 land owners, is just a horrific extreme position, which is spouted endlessly on this forum.

So I’ll play along, now go back to 1917 and tell me the then land owners position was of this territory. And let’s forgive their 30 year delay with two world wars they had to fight off in their homeland and hitlers bombshell.

we agree that this shouldn't be happening right now...that's what is important

And it's getting much worse now that the northern border is splitting Israel's defense

My guess is that some US airstrikes are imminent

Let’s hope not, that would be scary. We need leaders in Palestine willing to negotiate and share. Both peoples have ancient claims to the West Bank. Anyone posting here that Israel can not have access to certain historical areas of West Bank is misguided, despite the USA not vetoing certain UN Resolutions that were a hope for peace, for which the Palestinians never held up their side

I hope those who like to yell out the O word realize there is a lot of sketchiness to the application of the Geneva conventions in those UN actions, and plenty of resolutions were outright vetoed by the USA. Both sides need to recognize the other has valid claims to West Bank, sit down and sign another treaty but this time follow it.

as far as Gaza goes, Israel has been begging Egypt to take it over for the better part of 15 years. Not even they want to deal with Gaza. For anyone yelling the O word, take a long look at what happened Saturday. That’s what happens when Israel withdraws. They were invaded many times from the West Bank up to 1967, none since they implemented security measures.

So stop claiming Israel’s hands are clean in this dispute. They’ve committed their fair share of atrocities over the past 65 years.

Are you putting words in my mouth oh wise one? Did you think saturdays terrorist attack was funny, because your first comment was a joke about the attack on Saturday.

go take a look at this topic on Saturday, almost zero sympathy for the victims, and phrases like “”Israeli terrorists” were rampant here on Saturday and griping about the O word. This forum should be embarrassed for citing the complexities of the West Bank settlements at a time like this, especially on Saturday. Behavior similar to what trump did on 9/11, making jokes in the face of terrorism.

on Monday I said peace thru negotiations or peace thru terror. That was met with attacks here.

Your posts right out of the gate were ones of black/white and blanket statements that are far from the truth, full of conflating the issues with descriptors such as “monitoring” and a lack of acknowledgement of Israel’s own abhorrent behaviour. My first post was “wash, rinse, repeat” because the cycle of violence between the two sides continues. Nothing more, nothing less. Your posts immediately shot down any suggestion of support for the Palestinians and their rights. You mentioned how we’d all behave differently if we had Hamas as neighbours. Do you think any of us would treat our neighbours as Israel treats Palestinians, regardless of where they reside, West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, or Israel proper? Think about it.

Do I find Hamas’ actions abhorrent? Absolutely. Do i blame both sides’ governments? Absolutely. Do i pretend one side is better than the other because their method of killing in the name of their cause is, oh I don’t know, “modern” versus “barbaric?” No, I do not. Let me guess? In your eyes only one side uses “terror” as a means to an end?

”An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.” I’ll let you figure out who said it.

mrussel1

nicknyr15 said:

https://nypost.com/2023/10/11/richie-torres-rips-dsa-rally-apology-as-despicable/

The DSA has no pull in congress.  They attempted to coup Nancy in 2018 Ave she crushed them like a grape.

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1712177061580665134?t=_aiMp0rhAXfsJ8a0N-pABA&s=19

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1711895634096132492?t=wnYf9MWTHgBgBfk7ZMDFog&s=19

Lerxst1992

tbergs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Somehow Linda knew this place was Hamas central, she is smarter than me. Of course the story with 40 babies was a lie because according to AMT, it’s from a shady news source. Well the cnn story below is horrific enough. Yea, AMT. that’s  comparable to checkpoints, limiting social interaction to incur violence, and monitoring borders to identify weapons smuggling.



You cannot say “ignore the fact Palestine refuses Israel’s right to exist “ and its land is occupied. The security measures exist for that fact alone. It goes no further than that despite whatever extremist liberal organizations want you to believe. Any North American would expect those security measures if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door


It’s unreal the bias here is on a level with maga. The liberal news channels are nothing like this forum, it is stunning. Id be embarrassed frankly if I owned this forum. Every pro israeli point shot down with almost complete ignorance of facts and history. Both sides need to honestly negotiate here, and that comment got attacked repeatedly this week by the pro Hamas contingent.

Blame Israel for Arab extremism and Palestinian violations of signed treaties, yet Israel should exit West Bank, a land they somehow lived peacefully in before the Roman ethnic cleansing and forced relocation for thousands of years , which seems acceptable to this place. Israel having zero rights to their historical land has another name, Arab extremism.

 Israel needs a partner to negotiate peace in good faith. Peace needs give and take. Plenty israeli supporters dislike Netanyahu , but with Hamas at its borders it seems easy to visualize why they went so extreme to the right. Any North American would expect those security measure if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door, worth repeating every word.

Only one commenter on this forum has been discussing peace treaties and the importance of negotiation.


this conflict remains simple. Peace thru negotiations or peace thru terrorism. It is palestines responsibility to be represented by honest leadership willing to work towards peace. Hopefully Egypt and Jordan can assist with that.


From cnn

‘Murdered in cold blood’: stories emerge of Israelis killed at Gaza border

Friends and relatives say Hamas killed a grandmother, parents protecting their children, and an entire  family during raids

As the hours passed, another horrific account emerged from the same kibbutz. Relatives of an as-yet-unnamed woman said their grandmother had been murdered by the militants, who then filmed her dying moments and posted them on her Facebook page.

I really don't get where your outrage is coming from. No one on here is supporting what Hamas did/is doing.

Below is a factually incorrect comment of yours. Free Palestine is a cry of their people, from the river to the sea. That is what created this mess. that is an irrefutable fact.

…

I can't say I'm 100% up on the history of the conflict but I know that Israel basically took a bunch of land from Palestine upon the failure of the attack in 1948. Repelling the attack was absolutely justified but taking the land that they had has created this mess. Just give it the fuck back and give them access to the…

That isn't a statement that supports Hamas.

It's also not factually incorrect.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=One of the two envisaged,population fled or were expelled.

I am not sure you are addressing the river to the sea comment. That is the simplest problem both sides face.

we can go back and forth, both sides are right and wrong in cases of war. But peace cannot happen until both sides start off by recognizing the other,  and land cannot be peacefully shared until both sides want peace thru negotiation. To ignore one sides historical claims here, which was fully supported by the 1917 land owners, is just a horrific extreme position, which is spouted endlessly on this forum.

So I’ll play along, now go back to 1917 and tell me the then land owners position was of this territory. And let’s forgive their 30 year delay with two world wars they had to fight off in their homeland and hitlers bombshell.

we agree that this shouldn't be happening right now...that's what is important

And it's getting much worse now that the northern border is splitting Israel's defense

My guess is that some US airstrikes are imminent

Let’s hope not, that would be scary. We need leaders in Palestine willing to negotiate and share. Both peoples have ancient claims to the West Bank. Anyone posting here that Israel can not have access to certain historical areas of West Bank is misguided, despite the USA not vetoing certain UN Resolutions that were a hope for peace, for which the Palestinians never held up their side

I hope those who like to yell out the O word realize there is a lot of sketchiness to the application of the Geneva conventions in those UN actions, and plenty of resolutions were outright vetoed by the USA. Both sides need to recognize the other has valid claims to West Bank, sit down and sign another treaty but this time follow it.

as far as Gaza goes, Israel has been begging Egypt to take it over for the better part of 15 years. Not even they want to deal with Gaza. For anyone yelling the O word, take a long look at what happened Saturday. That’s what happens when Israel withdraws. They were invaded many times from the West Bank up to 1967, none since they implemented security measures.

So stop claiming Israel’s hands are clean in this dispute. They’ve committed their fair share of atrocities over the past 65 years.

Are you putting words in my mouth oh wise one? Did you think saturdays terrorist attack was funny, because your first comment was a joke about the attack on Saturday.

go take a look at this topic on Saturday, almost zero sympathy for the victims, and phrases like “”Israeli terrorists” were rampant here on Saturday and griping about the O word. This forum should be embarrassed for citing the complexities of the West Bank settlements at a time like this, especially on Saturday. Behavior similar to what trump did on 9/11, making jokes in the face of terrorism.

on Monday I said peace thru negotiations or peace thru terror. That was met with attacks here.

With all due respect, but I don't think you have been attacked on here. You seem to be standing your ground quite well and at times, I'd say you've been the one shutting other people down, not vice-versa. A lot of people don't want to speak out when they know you're going to slap their hand if they say anything contrary to what you're presenting. Just an observation. 

I appreciate that (carefully worded) comment. On Monday I shifted to talking about the peace process, after a horrific weekend here in this topic when the commenters only seemed to speak about Israeli terrorists, while the hamas attacks were still ongoing, and was mocked (probably too strong of a word) when I spoke  about the number of peace treaties Israel has with Arab nations, like it wasn’t enough, like Hamas has more peace agreements. 

and instead of considering my point, I was met with Hamas talking points about international law and UN resolutions. Commenters here do not seem to understand that there is no such thing as international justice, that those two actions were allowed by the US in an attempt to bring Palestine back to the bargaining table after the Oslo accord peace treaties were met with Hamas’ targeting Israeli civilians in endless bombing attacks in the 90s. And if the US doesn’t use its veto, any UN vote is simple a recognition that the Arab nations significantly outnumber Israel, that it is in no way justice.

so yes, I view reading Hamas talking points, within days of the worst terror attack I can think of, as highly offensive.

Lerxst1992

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Somehow Linda knew this place was Hamas central, she is smarter than me. Of course the story with 40 babies was a lie because according to AMT, it’s from a shady news source. Well the cnn story below is horrific enough. Yea, AMT. that’s  comparable to checkpoints, limiting social interaction to incur violence, and monitoring borders to identify weapons smuggling.



You cannot say “ignore the fact Palestine refuses Israel’s right to exist “ and its land is occupied. The security measures exist for that fact alone. It goes no further than that despite whatever extremist liberal organizations want you to believe. Any North American would expect those security measures if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door


It’s unreal the bias here is on a level with maga. The liberal news channels are nothing like this forum, it is stunning. Id be embarrassed frankly if I owned this forum. Every pro israeli point shot down with almost complete ignorance of facts and history. Both sides need to honestly negotiate here, and that comment got attacked repeatedly this week by the pro Hamas contingent.

Blame Israel for Arab extremism and Palestinian violations of signed treaties, yet Israel should exit West Bank, a land they somehow lived peacefully in before the Roman ethnic cleansing and forced relocation for thousands of years , which seems acceptable to this place. Israel having zero rights to their historical land has another name, Arab extremism.

 Israel needs a partner to negotiate peace in good faith. Peace needs give and take. Plenty israeli supporters dislike Netanyahu , but with Hamas at its borders it seems easy to visualize why they went so extreme to the right. Any North American would expect those security measure if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door, worth repeating every word.

Only one commenter on this forum has been discussing peace treaties and the importance of negotiation.


this conflict remains simple. Peace thru negotiations or peace thru terrorism. It is palestines responsibility to be represented by honest leadership willing to work towards peace. Hopefully Egypt and Jordan can assist with that.


From cnn

‘Murdered in cold blood’: stories emerge of Israelis killed at Gaza border

Friends and relatives say Hamas killed a grandmother, parents protecting their children, and an entire  family during raids

As the hours passed, another horrific account emerged from the same kibbutz. Relatives of an as-yet-unnamed woman said their grandmother had been murdered by the militants, who then filmed her dying moments and posted them on her Facebook page.

I really don't get where your outrage is coming from. No one on here is supporting what Hamas did/is doing.

Below is a factually incorrect comment of yours. Free Palestine is a cry of their people, from the river to the sea. That is what created this mess. that is an irrefutable fact.

…

I can't say I'm 100% up on the history of the conflict but I know that Israel basically took a bunch of land from Palestine upon the failure of the attack in 1948. Repelling the attack was absolutely justified but taking the land that they had has created this mess. Just give it the fuck back and give them access to the…

That isn't a statement that supports Hamas.

It's also not factually incorrect.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=One of the two envisaged,population fled or were expelled.

I am not sure you are addressing the river to the sea comment. That is the simplest problem both sides face.

we can go back and forth, both sides are right and wrong in cases of war. But peace cannot happen until both sides start off by recognizing the other,  and land cannot be peacefully shared until both sides want peace thru negotiation. To ignore one sides historical claims here, which was fully supported by the 1917 land owners, is just a horrific extreme position, which is spouted endlessly on this forum.

So I’ll play along, now go back to 1917 and tell me the then land owners position was of this territory. And let’s forgive their 30 year delay with two world wars they had to fight off in their homeland and hitlers bombshell.

we agree that this shouldn't be happening right now...that's what is important

And it's getting much worse now that the northern border is splitting Israel's defense

My guess is that some US airstrikes are imminent

Let’s hope not, that would be scary. We need leaders in Palestine willing to negotiate and share. Both peoples have ancient claims to the West Bank. Anyone posting here that Israel can not have access to certain historical areas of West Bank is misguided, despite the USA not vetoing certain UN Resolutions that were a hope for peace, for which the Palestinians never held up their side

I hope those who like to yell out the O word realize there is a lot of sketchiness to the application of the Geneva conventions in those UN actions, and plenty of resolutions were outright vetoed by the USA. Both sides need to recognize the other has valid claims to West Bank, sit down and sign another treaty but this time follow it.

as far as Gaza goes, Israel has been begging Egypt to take it over for the better part of 15 years. Not even they want to deal with Gaza. For anyone yelling the O word, take a long look at what happened Saturday. That’s what happens when Israel withdraws. They were invaded many times from the West Bank up to 1967, none since they implemented security measures.

So stop claiming Israel’s hands are clean in this dispute. They’ve committed their fair share of atrocities over the past 65 years.

Are you putting words in my mouth oh wise one? Did you think saturdays terrorist attack was funny, because your first comment was a joke about the attack on Saturday.

go take a look at this topic on Saturday, almost zero sympathy for the victims, and phrases like “”Israeli terrorists” were rampant here on Saturday and griping about the O word. This forum should be embarrassed for citing the complexities of the West Bank settlements at a time like this, especially on Saturday. Behavior similar to what trump did on 9/11, making jokes in the face of terrorism.

on Monday I said peace thru negotiations or peace thru terror. That was met with attacks here.

Your posts right out of the gate were ones of black/white and blanket statements that are far from the truth, full of conflating the issues with descriptors such as “monitoring” and a lack of acknowledgement of Israel’s own abhorrent behaviour. My first post was “wash, rinse, repeat” because the cycle of violence between the two sides continues. Nothing more, nothing less. Your posts immediately shot down any suggestion of support for the Palestinians and their rights. You mentioned how we’d all behave differently if we had Hamas as neighbours. Do you think any of us would treat our neighbours as Israel treats Palestinians, regardless of where they reside, West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, or Israel proper? Think about it.

Do I find Hamas’ actions abhorrent? Absolutely. Do i blame both sides’ governments? Absolutely. Do i pretend one side is better than the other because their method of killing in the name of their cause is, oh I don’t know, “modern” versus “barbaric?” No, I do not. Let me guess? In your eyes only one side uses “terror” as a means to an end?

”An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.” I’ll let you figure out who said it.

I’ll try to walk to the middle a bit  by saying if this  tragedy means the end of Netanyahu, great. A leftist willing to negotiate on settlements would have been good, but Hamas was never interested in negotiation. But it was an unreal experience turning the tube on Saturday and reading the endless comments here about Israeli terrorists and occupation.

commenters here seem to think Palestine was some sort of established nation, when in fact it was a creation by the Saudis in the 1800s, meaning it was nearly empty. It is estimated  750,000 Israelis were murdered by the Roman’s in the West Bank , while much later in the 1800s, there were about a third of that amount of Arabs living in the West Bank. A tiny population, created by Saudi migration 

let’s take a population of 750,000 say a thousand years later and extrapolate that population to the 1800s. We are talking about a massive Israeli population in the West Bank, what should have been tens of millions. Let’s talk about ethnic cleansing, a thousand years before hitler.

what many don’t know is the Israelis never left. They tried to stay throughout history on their land. And the blood of their dead are on that West Bank  soil. The history of their religion is on that land, as is the Muslims, so compromise is needed, not the abhorrent GTFO that was endlessly paraded here. When the Saudis got wind the Ottoman Empire was winding down, they sent migrants to the West Bank to try to keep that land for themselves. Palestine was hardly a nation within that empire 
 

saying all that, the Saudis, eh, Palestinians, should also have a claim to the West Bank, that’s the only way to reach peace. But the leftists here will have none of that. I tried to meet this extremist forum in the middle, and that was shot down. To rebut your earlier point, I have been alone AFAIK on this forum calling for negotiation for three days, which is an admission that both sides need to give to solve this problem. Telling Israel to GTFO out of a huge portion of their ancestral land, and land needed for self protection, is highly offensive. As saturdays horror goes further in the distance, maybe that’ll be easier to digest for Israeli supporters like me. Hamas talking points, such that this land is 100% ours, is…offensive.

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Somehow Linda knew this place was Hamas central, she is smarter than me. Of course the story with 40 babies was a lie because according to AMT, it’s from a shady news source. Well the cnn story below is horrific enough. Yea, AMT. that’s  comparable to checkpoints, limiting social interaction to incur violence, and monitoring borders to identify weapons smuggling.



You cannot say “ignore the fact Palestine refuses Israel’s right to exist “ and its land is occupied. The security measures exist for that fact alone. It goes no further than that despite whatever extremist liberal organizations want you to believe. Any North American would expect those security measures if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door


It’s unreal the bias here is on a level with maga. The liberal news channels are nothing like this forum, it is stunning. Id be embarrassed frankly if I owned this forum. Every pro israeli point shot down with almost complete ignorance of facts and history. Both sides need to honestly negotiate here, and that comment got attacked repeatedly this week by the pro Hamas contingent.

Blame Israel for Arab extremism and Palestinian violations of signed treaties, yet Israel should exit West Bank, a land they somehow lived peacefully in before the Roman ethnic cleansing and forced relocation for thousands of years , which seems acceptable to this place. Israel having zero rights to their historical land has another name, Arab extremism.

 Israel needs a partner to negotiate peace in good faith. Peace needs give and take. Plenty israeli supporters dislike Netanyahu , but with Hamas at its borders it seems easy to visualize why they went so extreme to the right. Any North American would expect those security measure if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door, worth repeating every word.

Only one commenter on this forum has been discussing peace treaties and the importance of negotiation.


this conflict remains simple. Peace thru negotiations or peace thru terrorism. It is palestines responsibility to be represented by honest leadership willing to work towards peace. Hopefully Egypt and Jordan can assist with that.


From cnn

‘Murdered in cold blood’: stories emerge of Israelis killed at Gaza border

Friends and relatives say Hamas killed a grandmother, parents protecting their children, and an entire  family during raids

As the hours passed, another horrific account emerged from the same kibbutz. Relatives of an as-yet-unnamed woman said their grandmother had been murdered by the militants, who then filmed her dying moments and posted them on her Facebook page.

I really don't get where your outrage is coming from. No one on here is supporting what Hamas did/is doing.

Below is a factually incorrect comment of yours. Free Palestine is a cry of their people, from the river to the sea. That is what created this mess. that is an irrefutable fact.

…

I can't say I'm 100% up on the history of the conflict but I know that Israel basically took a bunch of land from Palestine upon the failure of the attack in 1948. Repelling the attack was absolutely justified but taking the land that they had has created this mess. Just give it the fuck back and give them access to the…

That isn't a statement that supports Hamas.

It's also not factually incorrect.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=One of the two envisaged,population fled or were expelled.

I am not sure you are addressing the river to the sea comment. That is the simplest problem both sides face.

we can go back and forth, both sides are right and wrong in cases of war. But peace cannot happen until both sides start off by recognizing the other,  and land cannot be peacefully shared until both sides want peace thru negotiation. To ignore one sides historical claims here, which was fully supported by the 1917 land owners, is just a horrific extreme position, which is spouted endlessly on this forum.

So I’ll play along, now go back to 1917 and tell me the then land owners position was of this territory. And let’s forgive their 30 year delay with two world wars they had to fight off in their homeland and hitlers bombshell.

we agree that this shouldn't be happening right now...that's what is important

And it's getting much worse now that the northern border is splitting Israel's defense

My guess is that some US airstrikes are imminent

Let’s hope not, that would be scary. We need leaders in Palestine willing to negotiate and share. Both peoples have ancient claims to the West Bank. Anyone posting here that Israel can not have access to certain historical areas of West Bank is misguided, despite the USA not vetoing certain UN Resolutions that were a hope for peace, for which the Palestinians never held up their side

I hope those who like to yell out the O word realize there is a lot of sketchiness to the application of the Geneva conventions in those UN actions, and plenty of resolutions were outright vetoed by the USA. Both sides need to recognize the other has valid claims to West Bank, sit down and sign another treaty but this time follow it.

as far as Gaza goes, Israel has been begging Egypt to take it over for the better part of 15 years. Not even they want to deal with Gaza. For anyone yelling the O word, take a long look at what happened Saturday. That’s what happens when Israel withdraws. They were invaded many times from the West Bank up to 1967, none since they implemented security measures.

So stop claiming Israel’s hands are clean in this dispute. They’ve committed their fair share of atrocities over the past 65 years.

Are you putting words in my mouth oh wise one? Did you think saturdays terrorist attack was funny, because your first comment was a joke about the attack on Saturday.

go take a look at this topic on Saturday, almost zero sympathy for the victims, and phrases like “”Israeli terrorists” were rampant here on Saturday and griping about the O word. This forum should be embarrassed for citing the complexities of the West Bank settlements at a time like this, especially on Saturday. Behavior similar to what trump did on 9/11, making jokes in the face of terrorism.

on Monday I said peace thru negotiations or peace thru terror. That was met with attacks here.

Your posts right out of the gate were ones of black/white and blanket statements that are far from the truth, full of conflating the issues with descriptors such as “monitoring” and a lack of acknowledgement of Israel’s own abhorrent behaviour. My first post was “wash, rinse, repeat” because the cycle of violence between the two sides continues. Nothing more, nothing less. Your posts immediately shot down any suggestion of support for the Palestinians and their rights. You mentioned how we’d all behave differently if we had Hamas as neighbours. Do you think any of us would treat our neighbours as Israel treats Palestinians, regardless of where they reside, West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, or Israel proper? Think about it.

Do I find Hamas’ actions abhorrent? Absolutely. Do i blame both sides’ governments? Absolutely. Do i pretend one side is better than the other because their method of killing in the name of their cause is, oh I don’t know, “modern” versus “barbaric?” No, I do not. Let me guess? In your eyes only one side uses “terror” as a means to an end?

”An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.” I’ll let you figure out who said it.

I’ll try to walk to the middle a bit  by saying if this  tragedy means the end of Netanyahu, great. A leftist willing to negotiate on settlements would have been good, but Hamas was never interested in negotiation. But it was an unreal experience turning the tube on Saturday and reading the endless comments here about Israeli terrorists and occupation.

commenters here seem to think Palestine was some sort of established nation, when in fact it was a creation by the Saudis in the 1800s, meaning it was nearly empty. It is estimated  750,000 Israelis were murdered by the Roman’s in the West Bank , while much later in the 1800s, there were about a third of that amount of Arabs living in the West Bank. A tiny population, created by Saudi migration 

let’s take a population of 750,000 say a thousand years later and extrapolate that population to the 1800s. We are talking about a massive Israeli population in the West Bank, what should have been tens of millions. Let’s talk about ethnic cleansing, a thousand years before hitler.

what many don’t know is the Israelis never left. They tried to stay throughout history on their land. And the blood of their dead are on that West Bank  soil. The history of their religion is on that land, as is the Muslims, so compromise is needed, not the abhorrent GTFO that was endlessly paraded here. When the Saudis got wind the Ottoman Empire was winding down, they sent migrants to the West Bank to try to keep that land for themselves. Palestine was hardly a nation within that empire 
 

saying all that, the Saudis, eh, Palestinians, should also have a claim to the West Bank, that’s the only way to reach peace. But the leftists here will have none of that. I tried to meet this extremist forum in the middle, and that was shot down. To rebut your earlier point, I have been alone AFAIK on this forum calling for negotiation for three days, which is an admission that both sides need to give to solve this problem. Telling Israel to GTFO out of a huge portion of their ancestral land, and land needed for self protection, is highly offensive. As saturdays horror goes further in the distance, maybe that’ll be easier to digest for Israeli supporters like me. Hamas talking points, such that this land is 100% ours, is…offensive.

If you're speaking of the Masada, most (if not all) historians consider that a myth.  A tale passed through the centuries to give Jews a common purpose and a story of fighting.  Not that it's super relevant here, but if that's the reference, I just thought I would mention that.  

I think it's also important to note that Fatah is the ruling party of Palestine.  And that Hamas technically only controls Gaza and it's through force.  

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Somehow Linda knew this place was Hamas central, she is smarter than me. Of course the story with 40 babies was a lie because according to AMT, it’s from a shady news source. Well the cnn story below is horrific enough. Yea, AMT. that’s  comparable to checkpoints, limiting social interaction to incur violence, and monitoring borders to identify weapons smuggling.



You cannot say “ignore the fact Palestine refuses Israel’s right to exist “ and its land is occupied. The security measures exist for that fact alone. It goes no further than that despite whatever extremist liberal organizations want you to believe. Any North American would expect those security measures if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door


It’s unreal the bias here is on a level with maga. The liberal news channels are nothing like this forum, it is stunning. Id be embarrassed frankly if I owned this forum. Every pro israeli point shot down with almost complete ignorance of facts and history. Both sides need to honestly negotiate here, and that comment got attacked repeatedly this week by the pro Hamas contingent.

Blame Israel for Arab extremism and Palestinian violations of signed treaties, yet Israel should exit West Bank, a land they somehow lived peacefully in before the Roman ethnic cleansing and forced relocation for thousands of years , which seems acceptable to this place. Israel having zero rights to their historical land has another name, Arab extremism.

 Israel needs a partner to negotiate peace in good faith. Peace needs give and take. Plenty israeli supporters dislike Netanyahu , but with Hamas at its borders it seems easy to visualize why they went so extreme to the right. Any North American would expect those security measure if Hamas and Hezbollah lived next door, worth repeating every word.

Only one commenter on this forum has been discussing peace treaties and the importance of negotiation.


this conflict remains simple. Peace thru negotiations or peace thru terrorism. It is palestines responsibility to be represented by honest leadership willing to work towards peace. Hopefully Egypt and Jordan can assist with that.


From cnn

‘Murdered in cold blood’: stories emerge of Israelis killed at Gaza border

Friends and relatives say Hamas killed a grandmother, parents protecting their children, and an entire  family during raids

As the hours passed, another horrific account emerged from the same kibbutz. Relatives of an as-yet-unnamed woman said their grandmother had been murdered by the militants, who then filmed her dying moments and posted them on her Facebook page.

I really don't get where your outrage is coming from. No one on here is supporting what Hamas did/is doing.

Below is a factually incorrect comment of yours. Free Palestine is a cry of their people, from the river to the sea. That is what created this mess. that is an irrefutable fact.

…

I can't say I'm 100% up on the history of the conflict but I know that Israel basically took a bunch of land from Palestine upon the failure of the attack in 1948. Repelling the attack was absolutely justified but taking the land that they had has created this mess. Just give it the fuck back and give them access to the…

That isn't a statement that supports Hamas.

It's also not factually incorrect.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/#:~:text=One of the two envisaged,population fled or were expelled.

I am not sure you are addressing the river to the sea comment. That is the simplest problem both sides face.

we can go back and forth, both sides are right and wrong in cases of war. But peace cannot happen until both sides start off by recognizing the other,  and land cannot be peacefully shared until both sides want peace thru negotiation. To ignore one sides historical claims here, which was fully supported by the 1917 land owners, is just a horrific extreme position, which is spouted endlessly on this forum.

So I’ll play along, now go back to 1917 and tell me the then land owners position was of this territory. And let’s forgive their 30 year delay with two world wars they had to fight off in their homeland and hitlers bombshell.

we agree that this shouldn't be happening right now...that's what is important

And it's getting much worse now that the northern border is splitting Israel's defense

My guess is that some US airstrikes are imminent

Let’s hope not, that would be scary. We need leaders in Palestine willing to negotiate and share. Both peoples have ancient claims to the West Bank. Anyone posting here that Israel can not have access to certain historical areas of West Bank is misguided, despite the USA not vetoing certain UN Resolutions that were a hope for peace, for which the Palestinians never held up their side

I hope those who like to yell out the O word realize there is a lot of sketchiness to the application of the Geneva conventions in those UN actions, and plenty of resolutions were outright vetoed by the USA. Both sides need to recognize the other has valid claims to West Bank, sit down and sign another treaty but this time follow it.

as far as Gaza goes, Israel has been begging Egypt to take it over for the better part of 15 years. Not even they want to deal with Gaza. For anyone yelling the O word, take a long look at what happened Saturday. That’s what happens when Israel withdraws. They were invaded many times from the West Bank up to 1967, none since they implemented security measures.

So stop claiming Israel’s hands are clean in this dispute. They’ve committed their fair share of atrocities over the past 65 years.

Are you putting words in my mouth oh wise one? Did you think saturdays terrorist attack was funny, because your first comment was a joke about the attack on Saturday.

go take a look at this topic on Saturday, almost zero sympathy for the victims, and phrases like “”Israeli terrorists” were rampant here on Saturday and griping about the O word. This forum should be embarrassed for citing the complexities of the West Bank settlements at a time like this, especially on Saturday. Behavior similar to what trump did on 9/11, making jokes in the face of terrorism.

on Monday I said peace thru negotiations or peace thru terror. That was met with attacks here.

Your posts right out of the gate were ones of black/white and blanket statements that are far from the truth, full of conflating the issues with descriptors such as “monitoring” and a lack of acknowledgement of Israel’s own abhorrent behaviour. My first post was “wash, rinse, repeat” because the cycle of violence between the two sides continues. Nothing more, nothing less. Your posts immediately shot down any suggestion of support for the Palestinians and their rights. You mentioned how we’d all behave differently if we had Hamas as neighbours. Do you think any of us would treat our neighbours as Israel treats Palestinians, regardless of where they reside, West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, or Israel proper? Think about it.

Do I find Hamas’ actions abhorrent? Absolutely. Do i blame both sides’ governments? Absolutely. Do i pretend one side is better than the other because their method of killing in the name of their cause is, oh I don’t know, “modern” versus “barbaric?” No, I do not. Let me guess? In your eyes only one side uses “terror” as a means to an end?

”An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.” I’ll let you figure out who said it.

Ooooh I know that one! “Eye for an eye and tooth for tooth would leave everyone blind and toothless”.  MLKjr

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/allenanalysis/status/1712158446185861611?t=UzL503jwkDl7vZhtv1zcBg&s=19