What the hell happened in Wisconsin?

dignin

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

Last-12-Exit

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

I don't remember hearing that Michael Brown was mentally ill.

dignin

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

I don't remember hearing that Michael Brown was mentally ill.

That's all you got as a response eh? I can post dozens of cases where the police have killed unarmed mentally ill men. And you got Michael Brown........

But yeah, if the police encounter "assholes" or "stupid" people , they should just kill them. No other solution....no other way. Got it. Glad you're not a cop.

Thankfully there are good cops out there....who find another way.

Last-12-Exit

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

I don't remember hearing that Michael Brown was mentally ill.

That's all you got as a response eh? I can post dozens of cases where the police have killed unarmed mentally ill men. And you got Michael Brown........

But yeah, if the police encounter "assholes" or "stupid" people , they should just kill them. No other solution....no other way. Got it. Glad you're not a cop.

Thankfully there are good cops out there....who find another way.

Please, post them. Bottom line is still, listen to the cops. That goes for everybody. Whites, blacks drunks, junkies, depressed, autistic, and normal people......

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dignin said:

I think backseat makes a great point about 4 cops losing control of a situation and then having to kill a suspect because "he was reaching for my gun". If I was that shitty at my job, I would be fired.

Maybe you are and just don't know it?

I'm sure those cops think they're okay at what they do too.

You just can't win though: the cops spend an exorbitant of time trying to talk the guy down until things escalated to violence. It's hard to tell from the video, but it sure looks like the guy had (a) plenty of time to realize he was screwed... and (b) an opportunity to succumb when they gained the upper hand.

Instead, he basically told them to stick it and when he was losing the struggle he tried to grab one of the cop's guns. What was he going to do with that?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

And who's responsible for all these mentally ill people roaming the streets homeless and committing crimes? Is it the cop's fault as he addresses the problem on the front... or is it a little further reaching than that?

HughFreakingDillon

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

As staunch a supporter of the mentally ill as I am....(see Vince Li thread)....should a cop die because the person has a condition? Had vince li lunged at cops with his knife, i would say they would have had no choice but to shoot.

callen

So easy to sit in iur comfy safe residences and say this or that. Have no empathy. Think your some how special o

PJ_Soul said:

Me neither.... Do you mean that you think people are leaping to the defense of guilty cops? ... I would agree if you're talking about other cops, the justice system, etc. But definitely not if you mean the general public.

Think some relish that the bad guy gets killed and many have given statements of how perp was dumb in their actions versus seeing alternative to shooting person. And little too much benefit towards the cop

Will say I don't believe any of the cops are wanting to shoot and kill, bad judgement training procedures and we created this mess with our gun culture.

Police will change some procedures from this along as thinking bit more so some lives will be saved including cops lives not being ruined

HughFreakingDillon

callen said:

So easy to sit in iur comfy safe residences and say this or that. Have no empathy. Think your some how special o

PJ_Soul said:

Me neither.... Do you mean that you think people are leaping to the defense of guilty cops? ... I would agree if you're talking about other cops, the justice system, etc. But definitely not if you mean the general public.

Think some relish that the bad guy gets killed and many have given statements of how perp was dumb in their actions versus seeing alternative to shooting person. And little too much benefit towards the cop

Will say I don't believe any of the cops are wanting to shoot and kill, bad judgement training procedures and we created this mess with our gun culture.

Police will change some procedures from this along as thinking bit more so some lives will be saved including cops lives not being ruined

we were presented with a scenario: guy goes for cop's gun. what does cop do?

i say cop defends himself lethally if necessary. IF NECESSARY. But who are you or I to judge what is necessary in the blink of an eye? no amount of training will change someone's reflexes. sometimes they simply don't have time to think about it.

dignin

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

I don't remember hearing that Michael Brown was mentally ill.

That's all you got as a response eh? I can post dozens of cases where the police have killed unarmed mentally ill men. And you got Michael Brown........

But yeah, if the police encounter "assholes" or "stupid" people , they should just kill them. No other solution....no other way. Got it. Glad you're not a cop.

Thankfully there are good cops out there....who find another way.

Please, post them. Bottom line is still, listen to the cops. That goes for everybody. Whites, blacks drunks, junkies, depressed, autistic, and normal people......

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/10/half_of_people_shot_by_police_are_mentally_ill_investigation_finds/

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/18/video-dallas-police-shooting-mentally-ill-black-man

http://www.alternet.org/why-are-cops-shooting-so-many-mentally-ill-people


It's endless. But your only solution is that the mentally should just stop being mentally ill.

dignin

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

And who's responsible for all these mentally ill people roaming the streets homeless and committing crimes? Is it the cop's fault as he addresses the problem on the front... or is it a little further reaching than that?

I agree. It's a tragedy that our police are the ones that are left to deal with the ill of our society. But that issue could have it's own thread. As it stands right now it's our police that have to deal with them.....so shouldn't they be better trained to deal with them?

dignin

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

As staunch a supporter of the mentally ill as I am....(see Vince Li thread)....should a cop die because the person has a condition? Had vince li lunged at cops with his knife, i would say they would have had no choice but to shoot.

I agree, but there are way too many cases of the unarmed being killed.

HughFreakingDillon

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

I don't remember hearing that Michael Brown was mentally ill.

That's all you got as a response eh? I can post dozens of cases where the police have killed unarmed mentally ill men. And you got Michael Brown........

But yeah, if the police encounter "assholes" or "stupid" people , they should just kill them. No other solution....no other way. Got it. Glad you're not a cop.

Thankfully there are good cops out there....who find another way.

Please, post them. Bottom line is still, listen to the cops. That goes for everybody. Whites, blacks drunks, junkies, depressed, autistic, and normal people......

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/10/half_of_people_shot_by_police_are_mentally_ill_investigation_finds/

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/18/video-dallas-police-shooting-mentally-ill-black-man

http://www.alternet.org/why-are-cops-shooting-so-many-mentally-ill-people


It's endless. But your only solution is that the mentally should just stop being mentally ill.

to be fair, the types of people he mentoined here are not mentally ill, save for "depressed". and the depressed can still listen to the police and don't generally go after their weapons.

instead of just taking us to task about what the cops shouldn't do, what do you think the cops should do? any solutions? what training can a cop get to deal with a deranged violent non-compliant and possibly homicidal person? that is a serious question, and I'm hoping I don't get just a "don't shoot them" answer.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dignin said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Yea, better training. That's the answer to all of the ass holes that want to do the opposite of what cops say.

By the way...these "assholes" are usually mentally ill people.....but fuck them. They should die too. They have it comin'.

And who's responsible for all these mentally ill people roaming the streets homeless and committing crimes? Is it the cop's fault as he addresses the problem on the front... or is it a little further reaching than that?

I agree. It's a tragedy that our police are the ones that are left to deal with the ill of our society. But that issue could have it's own thread. As it stands right now it's our police that have to deal with them.....so shouldn't they be better trained to deal with them?

Yes.

But in the meantime we can't call them pigs or chickenshits when they defend themselves from perceived threats in the line of duty. They value their lives just as much as you and I value ours and have a right as well as society's permission to defend themselves with deadly force if attacked.

And as Hugh stated, I think it is a little reckless to categorize these combatants as mentally I'll. While there have been some high profile cases (I mentioned the Kelly Thomas incident)... many have not involved someone ill outside of being depressed.

callen

Hugh if there's one deranged unarmed man there should be a way 5 cops could handle it don't you think? The problem was the cops allowed access
To the gun by bringing the gun to the fight.

This though is one particular incident and think the advent Of video will force change of police tactics that are needed.

callen

And yes it is tough to know if person is armed. And we love us some guns.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

callen said:

Hugh if there's one deranged unarmed man there should be a way 5 cops could handle it don't you think? The problem was the cops allowed access
To the gun by bringing the gun to the fight.

This though is one particular incident and think the advent Of video will force change of police tactics that are needed.

Well of course they brought a gun to the fight.

What are you thinking, man? Is it your expectation that cops leave their guns in the cars until they determine what they will need to handle each situation they attempt to manage?

You're out of your mind.

callen

Of course they don't leave guns in car when going to a call. Can't do that in states due to love of guns.

But also say there has to be a better way than to give mentally unstable person access to the gun.

And "he reached for my gun" seems to be a common theme.

dignin

I'm confused. So these people were not mentally ill? Even though the professionals say they are. Or not mentally ill enough for some here? Where is the line? I'm at a loss.

hedonist

callen said:

Of course they don't leave guns in car when going to a call. Can't do that in states due to love of guns.

But also say there has to be a better way than to give mentally unstable person access to the gun.

And "he reached for my gun" seems to be a common theme.

Due to love of guns? Really, that's the reason?

How about due to protection of life, whether that of an innocent or the big bad cop?

What about assholes drunk or wasted out of their mind who are aggressive and...(wait for it)...reaching for the gun? Or armed themselves? We just had someone out here (mentioned in another thread) who after a fucked up pursuit came out gun a'blazing. Could've been killed by return fire but the police, after a long standoff, handled it peacefully. No dead asshole.

That this is so black and white to some, just beyond me.