Brian, I hope you know you weren't being attacked, and your specific post/comment questioned - fairly so. Again, even though you re-stated, there is no obsession. Surely you can see how that's an unfair assessment of those you respect (as is reciprocated by myself as well as I'm sure others.
There've been many incidents mentioned in this and other related threads, some seen as valid by no other choice, and others denounced, rightly so. The one here recently in LA had nothing to do with race, nor did Kelly Thomas - my opinions of which are vastly different.
I'll grant "obsessed" may be too strong a word. The point is, several here have dug in their heels with defending the trend toward "shoot first, ask questions later". At least that's how I read it. I'm not talking about a specific incident (and to be fair, that is what this thread is about) but rather the multiple incidents (we've talked about several of them on AMT) of people getting gunned down, choked to death etc.
I remember when the first person was killed by a police officer in Palo Alto, CA. That had never happened before. Ever! People were shocked. It was a big deal. Now it's just another shooting, ho hum... sad how things have changed.
Again, no one advocates for shoot first ask questions later. Do you really beleive what you are writing?
Your talking about a few specific incidents, Thirty. Don't assume I think all cops are bad or that their job is easy or that I don't believe people make mistakes. But what about the general trend? Do you really believe that in general the situation is not more violence oriented , more police state oriented, more oriented toward shoot first, ask questions later? Maybe I assume too much by talking about general trends instead of one or two specific situations.
Also, I find it interesting that the issue of racism and racial profiling keeps being ignored here.
Not sure why you keep ignoring the rebuttals to your last statement. We all know that happens.
And I believe that a lot of what we see in society today is a reflection of what is actually going on. Not so much in decades past. You didnt have a video camera on a hand held device on 95% of the population back then. This crap still happened, but it is gaining more attention now because of visual proof. And I think a lot more of it happened back then as there was much less accountability. 4 white cops word against 1 black kid with a criminal record.
Racism is obviously still a huge problem, but does anyone think it is worse now than in the past?
Some seem unwilling to acknowledge this fact, Hugh- that cops are human and as a result... we can safely expect a few things to happen no matter what policies are in place and regardless of training including:
1. Being shaped by their experiences. 2. Being prone to error. 3. Being extra cautious when their life might be at risk.
And the list goes on.
We want cops to perform their duties at the highest level possible, but we have to exercise a remote level of understanding when they screw up. Our mentality cannot be, "Go do this incredibly challenging and dangerous job. Do it well, but don't screw up defending yourself because if you do... we will crucify you."
Think about it for a second... some seem more willing to forgive the assailant for their indiscretion attacking the police officer (alluding to poverty and the resentment they have developed) than they do for the officer hastily making a error in judgement (performing his duties and becoming defensive engaged in an altercation while doing so).
Yet, the professional here, should lead by example. I do recall talking about police retraining to include human relations training, since they've lost that connection to the very people they are to protect. Shoot first, talk later? That's not exactly talking down a dangerous person, that's a trigger moment where uttering a word is much more difficult than pulling the trigger. If I can't count on my public protector to actually talk to me but rather handle me roughly, and have his gun ready to use, we are living in a very dangerous country.
If you seriously want me to consider police as humans, you'd better not forget that so are all the victims. Cut each other some slack and drop the drama and urgency to use a weapon. And yeah, it goes for BOTH sides.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,792
edited March 2015
Fail.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Brian, I hope you know you weren't being attacked, and your specific post/comment questioned - fairly so. Again, even though you re-stated, there is no obsession. Surely you can see how that's an unfair assessment of those you respect (as is reciprocated by myself as well as I'm sure others.
There've been many incidents mentioned in this and other related threads, some seen as valid by no other choice, and others denounced, rightly so. The one here recently in LA had nothing to do with race, nor did Kelly Thomas - my opinions of which are vastly different.
I'll grant "obsessed" may be too strong a word. The point is, several here have dug in their heels with defending the trend toward "shoot first, ask questions later". At least that's how I read it. I'm not talking about a specific incident (and to be fair, that is what this thread is about) but rather the multiple incidents (we've talked about several of them on AMT) of people getting gunned down, choked to death etc.
I remember when the first person was killed by a police officer in Palo Alto, CA. That had never happened before. Ever! People were shocked. It was a big deal. Now it's just another shooting, ho hum... sad how things have changed.
Again, no one advocates for shoot first ask questions later. Do you really beleive what you are writing?
Bullshit. In the Czech Republic, as I already stated, the policy is to shoot only after fired upon. How many cases in the U.S. end up with a fatality only to find that it was a toy gun? knife? no weapon? That as what Brian means in shoot first, talk later. Cops jump the gun, assume their life is threatened and because the law is nothing like the CR, they don't have to wait. They can assume that the victim is reaching for the gun, so that gives them permission to fire. And not just fire, fire center mass, for the heart, shoot dead. Get away with murder.
Post edited by backseatLover12 on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,792
edited March 2015
Fail.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Factcheck: Grim statistics on race and police killings
This is worth checking out! This is what I mean by getting to the root of the problem. It really blows my mind that we aren't discussing this more. I'm surprised that some of you are more inclined to think it was right for that unarmed kid to be shot down. If this kind of response is common HERE, imagine what the discussion would look like on an NRA or a Clint Eastwood fan club site. Scary!
And although Brian feels that the word "obsessed" with death is a strong word (it is), it doesn't negate the apathy all over this thread in regards to life in general, and how death is deemed an appropriate punishment by most here in situations fitting enough to accommodate the officer.
Some here place outlandish regard for police officers, place them above the law, saintly, even. They are humans, they make errors, they take advantage of situations. They are supposed to be professionals, they are supposed to be capable of being a hero, a protector and getting bad guys. But they no longer should be viewed as heroes if the bad cops are taking advantage of the title, they are no longer heroes or protectors if they shoot first, talk later. The sooner we acknowledge that they are errored humans just like us, the sooner we solve our issues - race and brutality issues.
Some seem unwilling to acknowledge this fact, Hugh- that cops are human and as a result... we can safely expect a few things to happen no matter what policies are in place and regardless of training including:
1. Being shaped by their experiences. 2. Being prone to error. 3. Being extra cautious when their life might be at risk.
And the list goes on.
We want cops to perform their duties at the highest level possible, but we have to exercise a remote level of understanding when they screw up. Our mentality cannot be, "Go do this incredibly challenging and dangerous job. Do it well, but don't screw up defending yourself because if you do... we will crucify you."
Think about it for a second... some seem more willing to forgive the assailant for their indiscretion attacking the police officer (alluding to poverty and the resentment they have developed) than they do for the officer hastily making a error in judgement (performing his duties and becoming defensive engaged in an altercation while doing so).
Yet, the professional here, should lead by example. I do recall talking about police retraining to include human relations training, since they've lost that connection to the very people they are to protect. Shoot first, talk later? That's not exactly talking down a dangerous person, that's a trigger moment where uttering a word is much more difficult than pulling the trigger. If I can't count on my public protector to actually talk to me but rather handle me roughly, and have his gun ready to use, we are living in a very dangerous country.
If you seriously want me to consider police as humans, you'd better not forget that so are all the victims. Cut each other some slack and drop the drama and urgency to use a weapon. And yeah, it goes for BOTH sides.
That's unbelievable. Stop the drama and urgency? Why not just take guns away from the cops?
Some seem unwilling to acknowledge this fact, Hugh- that cops are human and as a result... we can safely expect a few things to happen no matter what policies are in place and regardless of training including:
1. Being shaped by their experiences. 2. Being prone to error. 3. Being extra cautious when their life might be at risk.
And the list goes on.
We want cops to perform their duties at the highest level possible, but we have to exercise a remote level of understanding when they screw up. Our mentality cannot be, "Go do this incredibly challenging and dangerous job. Do it well, but don't screw up defending yourself because if you do... we will crucify you."
Think about it for a second... some seem more willing to forgive the assailant for their indiscretion attacking the police officer (alluding to poverty and the resentment they have developed) than they do for the officer hastily making a error in judgement (performing his duties and becoming defensive engaged in an altercation while doing so).
Yet, the professional here, should lead by example. I do recall talking about police retraining to include human relations training, since they've lost that connection to the very people they are to protect. Shoot first, talk later? That's not exactly talking down a dangerous person, that's a trigger moment where uttering a word is much more difficult than pulling the trigger. If I can't count on my public protector to actually talk to me but rather handle me roughly, and have his gun ready to use, we are living in a very dangerous country.
If you seriously want me to consider police as humans, you'd better not forget that so are all the victims. Cut each other some slack and drop the drama and urgency to use a weapon. And yeah, it goes for BOTH sides.
That's unbelievable. Stop the drama and urgency? Why not just take guns away from the cops?
Some seem unwilling to acknowledge this fact, Hugh- that cops are human and as a result... we can safely expect a few things to happen no matter what policies are in place and regardless of training including:
1. Being shaped by their experiences. 2. Being prone to error. 3. Being extra cautious when their life might be at risk.
And the list goes on.
We want cops to perform their duties at the highest level possible, but we have to exercise a remote level of understanding when they screw up. Our mentality cannot be, "Go do this incredibly challenging and dangerous job. Do it well, but don't screw up defending yourself because if you do... we will crucify you."
Think about it for a second... some seem more willing to forgive the assailant for their indiscretion attacking the police officer (alluding to poverty and the resentment they have developed) than they do for the officer hastily making a error in judgement (performing his duties and becoming defensive engaged in an altercation while doing so).
Yet, the professional here, should lead by example. I do recall talking about police retraining to include human relations training, since they've lost that connection to the very people they are to protect. Shoot first, talk later? That's not exactly talking down a dangerous person, that's a trigger moment where uttering a word is much more difficult than pulling the trigger. If I can't count on my public protector to actually talk to me but rather handle me roughly, and have his gun ready to use, we are living in a very dangerous country.
If you seriously want me to consider police as humans, you'd better not forget that so are all the victims. Cut each other some slack and drop the drama and urgency to use a weapon. And yeah, it goes for BOTH sides.
That's unbelievable. Stop the drama and urgency? Why not just take guns away from the cops?
It's like talking to a wall. I swear to Bob.
I know. You keep harping on this idea of trying to talk a guy that is about to kill you down. When most of us know in the real world it doesn't work like that.
And although Brian feels that the word "obsessed" with death is a strong word (it is), it doesn't negate the apathy all over this thread in regards to life in general, and how death is deemed an appropriate punishment by most here in situations fitting enough to accommodate the officer.
Some here place outlandish regard for police officers, place them above the law, saintly, even. They are humans, they make errors, they take advantage of situations. They are supposed to be professionals, they are supposed to be capable of being a hero, a protector and getting bad guys. But they no longer should be viewed as heroes if the bad cops are taking advantage of the title, they are no longer heroes or protectors if they shoot first, talk later. The sooner we acknowledge that they are errored humans just like us, the sooner we solve our issues - race and brutality issues.
Serious issues sometimes call for serious emotions. I don't see what's wrong with that.
But sweeping ridiculous false statements like bsl keeps spewing get annoying after a while. "Apathy for life", "regarding cops as saints". To be blunt, it's fucking stupid and childish to make statements like this to try to just get a reaction from others, especially when the evidence points to the direct opposite. We can discuss without half the thread being many of us refuting these ridiculous claims.
Serious issues sometimes call for serious emotions. I don't see what's wrong with that.
But sweeping ridiculous false statements like bsl keeps spewing get annoying after a while. "Apathy for life", "regarding cops as saints". To be blunt, it's fucking stupid and childish to make statements like this to try to just get a reaction from others, especially when the evidence points to the direct opposite. We can discuss without half the thread being many of us refuting these ridiculous claims.
Why explain that? There certainly is police brutality in this country. And yes, at times, people are killed as a result. Retraining entire police forces will not solve this. You cant turn someone that is a racist. No amount of training will do that. You try and weed those people out in the interviewing process.
Cops are trained well. Ask a cop how much training they go through. Not just at the academy, but throughout their career. Want to know what can stem "police brutality"? People listening to the cops. Every day Joe's can stop reaching for a cops gun. Hell, you don't have to respect the people that protect you, but you sure as hell have to listen to them.
This thread asked in the OP what happened in this Wisconsin shooting. I haven't heard anything different from what I posted in the OP. If that's what happened, then it is another justified shooting and another reason for people to bash the police because of the actions OF A CRIMINAL. Personally, until body cameras are mandatory on all cops (which I'm in favor of) I will take the word of a cop over a criminal unless there's evidence that supports the contrary.
What really is baffling to me is the group here that hears none of the evidence but wants to immediately blame the police for the shooting. The Michael Brown case was a perfect example. Nobody knew what actually happened one week after the incident. But some here were ready to convict. Turns out, it was justified. Point is, until all of the evidence is heard, why blame?
Serious issues sometimes call for serious emotions. I don't see what's wrong with that.
But sweeping ridiculous false statements like bsl keeps spewing get annoying after a while. "Apathy for life", "regarding cops as saints". To be blunt, it's fucking stupid and childish to make statements like this to try to just get a reaction from others, especially when the evidence points to the direct opposite. We can discuss without half the thread being many of us refuting these ridiculous claims.
So what exactly do you call justification for ending one's life when one is on the ground and there are 4 cops on you? Justify the killing a 12 year old with a toy gun. That is APATHY for life. Many here have said that criminal scumbags deserve death, tell me how that isn't apathy of life. Tell me, on what terms should a victim of police be allowed to live? Where does this fine line fall? And why don't the police actively exercise letting someone live? Oh, that's right, because it is law that if an officer said that they aimed to injure, that they'd be subject to a civil suit. Shooting to kill saves them from all of that, so they train to shoot for the chest… but don't be a fool, they call it "shoot to harm".
Some of you talk like you view the police can do no wrong and does the term "pledge allegiance" sound familiar? (yeah, saintly) It's only been mentioned by me and Gambs several times in this thread regarding the common thread with many of the 'unquestioning the police' people. But bedamned us people who dare question our authority… Again, why we're leaning towards a police state.
Reaction from others, you really think I am REPEATING MYSELF CONSTANTLY because I want reaction? How many times does the same point have to be made before one actually hears it? And the "evidence points to the direct opposite". Laughable. Show me the evidence.
This is reality. Police brutality combined with racism = major US problem. Justifying death in for a 12 year old's death? Apathy.
I don't care if there is 15 cops on one 75 lb black/white/green/blue person.The minute the 1 reaches and grabs the cops gun He signed his or her death sentence.Period.
This is fucking simple.I don't get what more your reading into that?
I don't care if there is 15 cops on one 75 lb black/white/green/blue person.The minute the 1 reaches and grabs the cops gun He signed his or her death sentence.Period.
This is fucking simple.I don't get what more your reading into that?
Finally. Shit simple truth. The only protection of police is their weapon. You try to touch it you die.
Reaching for a gun and actually grabbing the gun are 2 separate things. You say death justifiably becomes you if you're weaponless and reach for a cop's gun while laying on the ground with 4 officers on top of you. 4 professionals choose to do nothing but shoot dead to a man already down. Apathy. And no conscience. The USA.
You guys are arguing about those few times where a split second decision must be made in which either the suspect will be killed or the cop. What about all the times (and we know they have been, are, and will be) where racial profiling is a factor and lives are needlessly taken? What about getting to the root of the cause which is discrimination, racism and economic disparity?
And why are some of you so obsessed with making sure people are killed? The whole flavor of this thread has gotten depressing. (I know... I can leave.)
OK, the high-lighted was poorly worded and I'm OK with the criticism of my poor wording in that sentence. Better wording would be, "And why are some of you so obsessed with it being OK for cops to kill so quickly and easily instead of discussing taking evasive measures when possible." My point is, our society is becoming more and more jaded about violence, more and more inclined to accept a police state mentality, more and more OK with shoot first, ask questions later and at best stagnant on racism.
What I'm not OK with is the way some of you, including some of you I generally have show respect and high regard for, chose to attack my post. Wouldn't some of you agree it's getting at least a bit viscous and redundant around here?
What's ironic is that it seems like this forum, which is based on a band that has a more progressive "liberal" (if you will) stance on things, seems to be moving in a more conservative direction. As an old fuck, I'll tell you why that is. It is because, in general, as generations age they seem to become more conservative. Not me and I'm a boomer and boomers are far more conservative today than they were 35-40 years ago. I find that perplexing and at least a bit disturbing. Some of you are going to seek a more conservative stance because you think it will be better for you now that you have a family and a mortgage. You're going to take the "safer" route because something inside tells you status quo is safer. You're going to begin to resist change because change involves risk and you don't want to jeopardize your creature comforts. That's all fine and good on an emotional here and now level but don't be surprised when you start to wonder why your train is no longer moving.
Brian,even though I don't agree with some of your stance on this one,you know,like Hedo I Also respect your position and input on issues.
I do however agree with you that yes ,we do get more conservative with age.Not just politically but with certain social issues. My dad used to say if you aren't a liberal at 20 you have no heart.If you aren't a conservative at 40 you have no brain.
I think we can keep(talking for myself here) certain social liberal stances like women's choice,Gay marraige,etc and still take conservative fiscal positions like certain tax breaks and spending limits. In fact I think it's a nice mix and allows me to see and cherry pick both sides of an issue to suit my personal view and perspective.
Reaching for a gun and actually grabbing the gun are 2 separate things. You say death justifiably becomes you if you're weaponless and reach for a cop's gun while laying on the ground with 4 officers on top of you. 4 professionals choose to do nothing but shoot dead to a man already down. Apathy. And no conscience. The USA.
Hello!!!!! Yes that's what I'm saying. And of course there is apathy and conscience on behalf of the shooter.Im sure it would fuck them up a bit as it would if anyone had to take a life.cmon they are people not robot warriors.
Serious issues sometimes call for serious emotions. I don't see what's wrong with that.
But sweeping ridiculous false statements like bsl keeps spewing get annoying after a while. "Apathy for life", "regarding cops as saints". To be blunt, it's fucking stupid and childish to make statements like this to try to just get a reaction from others, especially when the evidence points to the direct opposite. We can discuss without half the thread being many of us refuting these ridiculous claims.
So what exactly do you call justification for ending one's life when one is on the ground and there are 4 cops on you? Justify the killing a 12 year old with a toy gun. That is APATHY for life. Some of you talk like you view the police can do no wrong and does the term "pledge allegiance" sound familiar? It's only been mentioned by me and Gambs several times in this thread regarding the common thread with many of the unquestioning the police people.
And the "evidence points to the direct opposite". Laughable. Show me the evidence.
Jesus Christ, man.
Give it up. You are like the human embodiment of Bill Murray in Groundhog Day: you keep making entries that say the same fucking thing. If your purpose is to annoy people to the point they want to stick pins in their eyeballs... you are inching nearer to success.
One last time from me... get ready... if you've been skimming to this point stop skimming now and really concentrate 'cause here it comes... the points you need to hear:
1. There are cases where cops have acted poorly in the line of duty. In these cases, cops need to be held accountable. Nobody is pleased that Tamir Rice was gunned down while playing in the park- it was unbelievably poor police work that should lead to dismissals, but not necessarily murder. In extreme cases, criminal charges should be laid (Thomas).
2. Cops are human and prone to error. They have a difficult job to do... it's much tougher than your job (whatever that might be... maybe it's no job?). When they make errors while performing under pressure and in tense moments we can't simply throw therm off a cliff. We have to afford a measure of appreciation and understanding for the challenges they face. Anyone of us might make errors in the same position.
3. If anybody tries to reach for a cop's gun in a scuffle... they can expect to be shot. What do you think the victim was trying to get the gun for? It's self defense. Period.
4. Blaming cops, at the point of trouble is like blaming the car directly in front of you for a traffic jam. They are not to blame for the racial divide. Look at your corporate machine and the unbelievable inequity in wealth as a more significant factor contributing to what you have such a problem with.
There's more, but that's all I care to reiterate for now. If you are going to persist with going on about how awesome you and RG are and how shitty 'the rest of us are'... I might have to take the gloves off.
Serious issues sometimes call for serious emotions. I don't see what's wrong with that.
But sweeping ridiculous false statements like bsl keeps spewing get annoying after a while. "Apathy for life", "regarding cops as saints". To be blunt, it's fucking stupid and childish to make statements like this to try to just get a reaction from others, especially when the evidence points to the direct opposite. We can discuss without half the thread being many of us refuting these ridiculous claims.
So what exactly do you call justification for ending one's life when one is on the ground and there are 4 cops on you? Justify the killing a 12 year old with a toy gun. That is APATHY for life. Some of you talk like you view the police can do no wrong and does the term "pledge allegiance" sound familiar? It's only been mentioned by me and Gambs several times in this thread regarding the common thread with many of the unquestioning the police people.
And the "evidence points to the direct opposite". Laughable. Show me the evidence.
Jesus Christ, man.
Give it up. You are like the human embodiment of Bill Murray in Groundhog Day: you keep making entries that say the same fucking thing. If your purpose is to annoy people to the point they want to stick pins in their eyeballs... you are inching nearer to success.
One last time from me... get ready... if you've been skimming to this point stop skimming now and really concentrate 'cause here it comes... the points you need to hear:
1. There are cases where cops have acted poorly in the line of duty. In these cases, cops need to be held accountable. Nobody is pleased that Tamir Rice was gunned down while playing in the park- it was unbelievably poor police work that should lead to dismissals, but not necessarily murder. In extreme cases, criminal charges should be laid (Thomas).
2. Cops are human and prone to error. They have a difficult job to do... it's much tougher than your job (whatever that might be... maybe it's no job?). When they make errors while performing under pressure and in tense moments we can't simply throw therm off a cliff. We have to afford a measure of appreciation and understanding for the challenges they face. Anyone of us might make errors in the same position.
3. If anybody tries to reach for a cop's gun in a scuffle... they can expect to be shot. What do you think the victim was trying to get the gun for? It's self defense. Period.
4. Blaming cops, at the point of trouble is like blaming the car directly in front of you for a traffic jam. They are not to blame for the racial divide. Look at your corporate machine and the unbelievable inequity in wealth as a more significant factor contributing to what you have such a problem with.
There's more, but that's all I care to reiterate for now. If you are going to persist with going on about how awesome you and RG are and how shitty 'the rest of us are'... I might have to take the gloves off.
Serious issues sometimes call for serious emotions. I don't see what's wrong with that.
But sweeping ridiculous false statements like bsl keeps spewing get annoying after a while. "Apathy for life", "regarding cops as saints". To be blunt, it's fucking stupid and childish to make statements like this to try to just get a reaction from others, especially when the evidence points to the direct opposite. We can discuss without half the thread being many of us refuting these ridiculous claims.
So what exactly do you call justification for ending one's life when one is on the ground and there are 4 cops on you? Justify the killing a 12 year old with a toy gun. That is APATHY for life. Some of you talk like you view the police can do no wrong and does the term "pledge allegiance" sound familiar? It's only been mentioned by me and Gambs several times in this thread regarding the common thread with many of the unquestioning the police people.
And the "evidence points to the direct opposite". Laughable. Show me the evidence.
Jesus Christ, man.
Give it up. You are like the human embodiment of Bill Murray in Groundhog Day: you keep making entries that say the same fucking thing. If your purpose is to annoy people to the point they want to stick pins in their eyeballs... you are inching nearer to success.
One last time from me... get ready... if you've been skimming to this point stop skimming now and really concentrate 'cause here it comes... the points you need to hear:
1. There are cases where cops have acted poorly in the line of duty. In these cases, cops need to be held accountable. Nobody is pleased that Tamir Rice was gunned down while playing in the park- it was unbelievably poor police work that should lead to dismissals, but not necessarily murder. In extreme cases, criminal charges should be laid (Thomas).
2. Cops are human and prone to error. They have a difficult job to do... it's much tougher than your job (whatever that might be... maybe it's no job?). When they make errors while performing under pressure and in tense moments we can't simply throw therm off a cliff. We have to afford a measure of appreciation and understanding for the challenges they face. Anyone of us might make errors in the same position.
3. If anybody tries to reach for a cop's gun in a scuffle... they can expect to be shot. What do you think the victim was trying to get the gun for? It's self defense. Period.
4. Blaming cops, at the point of trouble is like blaming the car directly in front of you for a traffic jam. They are not to blame for the racial divide. Look at your corporate machine and the unbelievable inequity in wealth as a more significant factor contributing to what you have such a problem with.
There's more, but that's all I care to reiterate for now. If you are going to persist with going on about how awesome you and RG are and how shitty 'the rest of us are'... I might have to take the gloves off.
Have a nice day.
Git Sum 30!!!!!! I think the white towel should be thrown now
Reaching for a gun and actually grabbing the gun are 2 separate things. You say death justifiably becomes you if you're weaponless and reach for a cop's gun while laying on the ground with 4 officers on top of you. 4 professionals choose to do nothing but shoot dead to a man already down. Apathy. And no conscience. The USA.
Are you out of your mind? What the hell do you think that criminal is going to do when he gets that gun?
Comments
www.headstonesband.com
And I believe that a lot of what we see in society today is a reflection of what is actually going on. Not so much in decades past. You didnt have a video camera on a hand held device on 95% of the population back then. This crap still happened, but it is gaining more attention now because of visual proof. And I think a lot more of it happened back then as there was much less accountability. 4 white cops word against 1 black kid with a criminal record.
Racism is obviously still a huge problem, but does anyone think it is worse now than in the past?
www.headstonesband.com
If you seriously want me to consider police as humans, you'd better not forget that so are all the victims. Cut each other some slack and drop the drama and urgency to use a weapon. And yeah, it goes for BOTH sides.
Factcheck: Grim statistics on race and police killings
Some here place outlandish regard for police officers, place them above the law, saintly, even. They are humans, they make errors, they take advantage of situations. They are supposed to be professionals, they are supposed to be capable of being a hero, a protector and getting bad guys. But they no longer should be viewed as heroes if the bad cops are taking advantage of the title, they are no longer heroes or protectors if they shoot first, talk later. The sooner we acknowledge that they are errored humans just like us, the sooner we solve our issues - race and brutality issues.
www.headstonesband.com
But sweeping ridiculous false statements like bsl keeps spewing get annoying after a while. "Apathy for life", "regarding cops as saints". To be blunt, it's fucking stupid and childish to make statements like this to try to just get a reaction from others, especially when the evidence points to the direct opposite. We can discuss without half the thread being many of us refuting these ridiculous claims.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
Cops are trained well. Ask a cop how much training they go through. Not just at the academy, but throughout their career. Want to know what can stem "police brutality"? People listening to the cops. Every day Joe's can stop reaching for a cops gun. Hell, you don't have to respect the people that protect you, but you sure as hell have to listen to them.
This thread asked in the OP what happened in this Wisconsin shooting. I haven't heard anything different from what I posted in the OP. If that's what happened, then it is another justified shooting and another reason for people to bash the police because of the actions OF A CRIMINAL. Personally, until body cameras are mandatory on all cops (which I'm in favor of) I will take the word of a cop over a criminal unless there's evidence that supports the contrary.
What really is baffling to me is the group here that hears none of the evidence but wants to immediately blame the police for the shooting. The Michael Brown case was a perfect example. Nobody knew what actually happened one week after the incident. But some here were ready to convict. Turns out, it was justified. Point is, until all of the evidence is heard, why blame?
Some of you talk like you view the police can do no wrong and does the term "pledge allegiance" sound familiar? (yeah, saintly) It's only been mentioned by me and Gambs several times in this thread regarding the common thread with many of the 'unquestioning the police' people. But bedamned us people who dare question our authority… Again, why we're leaning towards a police state.
Reaction from others, you really think I am REPEATING MYSELF CONSTANTLY because I want reaction? How many times does the same point have to be made before one actually hears it? And the "evidence points to the direct opposite". Laughable. Show me the evidence.
This is reality. Police brutality combined with racism = major US problem. Justifying death in for a 12 year old's death? Apathy.
This is fucking simple.I don't get what more your reading into that?
I do however agree with you that yes ,we do get more conservative with age.Not just politically but with certain social issues.
My dad used to say if you aren't a liberal at 20 you have no heart.If you aren't a conservative at 40 you have no brain.
I think we can keep(talking for myself here) certain social liberal stances like women's choice,Gay marraige,etc and still take conservative fiscal positions like certain tax breaks and spending limits.
In fact I think it's a nice mix and allows me to see and cherry pick both sides of an issue to suit my personal view and perspective.
And of course there is apathy and conscience on behalf of the shooter.Im sure it would fuck them up a bit as it would if anyone had to take a life.cmon they are people not robot warriors.
Give it up. You are like the human embodiment of Bill Murray in Groundhog Day: you keep making entries that say the same fucking thing. If your purpose is to annoy people to the point they want to stick pins in their eyeballs... you are inching nearer to success.
One last time from me... get ready... if you've been skimming to this point stop skimming now and really concentrate 'cause here it comes... the points you need to hear:
1. There are cases where cops have acted poorly in the line of duty. In these cases, cops need to be held accountable. Nobody is pleased that Tamir Rice was gunned down while playing in the park- it was unbelievably poor police work that should lead to dismissals, but not necessarily murder. In extreme cases, criminal charges should be laid (Thomas).
2. Cops are human and prone to error. They have a difficult job to do... it's much tougher than your job (whatever that might be... maybe it's no job?). When they make errors while performing under pressure and in tense moments we can't simply throw therm off a cliff. We have to afford a measure of appreciation and understanding for the challenges they face. Anyone of us might make errors in the same position.
3. If anybody tries to reach for a cop's gun in a scuffle... they can expect to be shot. What do you think the victim was trying to get the gun for? It's self defense. Period.
4. Blaming cops, at the point of trouble is like blaming the car directly in front of you for a traffic jam. They are not to blame for the racial divide. Look at your corporate machine and the unbelievable inequity in wealth as a more significant factor contributing to what you have such a problem with.
There's more, but that's all I care to reiterate for now. If you are going to persist with going on about how awesome you and RG are and how shitty 'the rest of us are'... I might have to take the gloves off.
Have a nice day.
Fuck ya thirty bills!