I disagree with this article on obesity..Whats your opinion?

hedonist

paulonious said:

judge much?

How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.

eddiec

Guys, have a look at the video I posted. It addresses all of the topics we have been discussing.

HughFreakingDillon

http://www.globalissues.org/article/558/obesity#Variouscausesofobesity

Various causes of obesity

Taking a more global view, the prestigious British Medical Journal (BMJ) looks at various attempts to tackle obesity and notes that obesity is caused by a complex and multitude of inter-related causes, “fuelled by economic and psychosocial factors as well as increased availability of energy dense food and reduced physical activity.”

The authors broke down the causes into the following areas:
Food systems causes of obesity
The main problem has been the increased availability of high energy food, because of:
•Liberalized international food markets
•Food subsidies that “have arguably distorted the food supply in favour of less healthy foodstuffs”
•“Transnational food companies [that] have flooded the global market with cheap to produce, energy dense, nutrient empty foods”
•“Supermarkets and food service chains [that are] encouraging bulk purchases, convenience foods, and supersized portions”
•Healthy eating often being more expensive than less healthy options, (despite global food prices having dropped on average).
•Marketing, especially “food advertising through television [which] aims to persuade individuals—particularly children—that they desire foods high in saturated fats, sugars, and salt.”
The local environment and obesity
How people live, what factors make them active or sedentary are also a factor. For exapmle,
•“Research, mainly in high income countries, indicates that local urban planning and design can influence weight in several ways.”
•For example, levels of physical activity are affected by •Connected streets and the ability to walk from place to place
•Provision of and access to local public facilities and spaces for recreation and play

•The increasing reliance on cars leads to physical inactivity, and while a long-time problem in rich countries, is a growing problem in developing countries.
Social conditions and obesity
Examples of issues the BMJ noted here include
•“Working and living conditions, such as having enough money for a healthy standard of living, underpin compliance with national health guidelines”
•“Increasingly less job control, security, flexibility of working hours, and access to paid family leave … undermining the material and psychosocial resources necessary for empowering individuals and communities to make healthy living choices.”
•Inequality, which can lead to different groups being disadvantaged and having less access to needed resources and healthier foods

HughFreakingDillon

hedonist said:

paulonious said:

judge much?

How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.

you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.

HughFreakingDillon

eddiec said:

Guys, have a look at the video I posted. It addresses all of the topics we have been discussing.

can't see videos at work. will watch later. Thanks eddiec.

HughFreakingDillon

from the same article:

Obesity also affects the poor as well, due to things like marketing of unhealthy foods as the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO) highlights. “Restrictions in access to food determine two simultaneous phenomena that are two sides of the same coin: poor people are malnourished because they do not have enough to feed themselves, and they are obese because they eat poorly, with an important energy imbalance… The food they can afford is often cheap, industrialized, mass produced, and inexpensive.”

while fast food was used as the prime example in the beginning of the thread, the reality is, the real issue is the above: highly processed, low nutrition, high sodium foods that are found in supermarkets. they ARE cheaper than fresh vegetables. for reasons I explained earlier.

Last-12-Exit

paulonious said:

hedonist said:

paulonious said:

judge much?

How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.

you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.

Saying people that buy Marlboros instead of Apple's are making bad choices is not judging. It's a fact.

rgambs

rr165892 said:

paulonious said:

rr165892 said:

jeffbr said:

Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.

So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.

hedonist said:

To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).

Talk about judging. Sheesh!

No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.

Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.

yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.

It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.

Bad choices get made. There is no dount about that. All of us want personal accountability in the members of our society, some of think that the tools are missing fpr some people to take those steps that lead to accountability.
Food addiction is a real issue, much bigger than the affordability debate.
RR I know you know this is true, you have a firm grasp on your diet and exercise and you have your cheat day for a reason. Ad important as your health is to you, you wouldn't have that day if it wasn't because sugarfat foods are so delish and powerfully effective to the brain.
Not everyone is as strong as you, or I, or Last 12Exit... Some addicts are worse than others and usually they are weaker, we have to try to eliminate the addiction at the source and then move to the hardline accountability stance.

HughFreakingDillon

Last-12-Exit said:

paulonious said:

hedonist said:

paulonious said:

judge much?

How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.

you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.

Saying people that buy Marlboros instead of Apple's are making bad choices is not judging. It's a fact.

well, I guess I have a different dictionary than you do. I choose to discuss causes and possible solutions rather than just say "fuck em".

callen

Having ones realities challenged should be welcomed.

callen

Don't think you have any free will. You react depending on past experiences. It may make one feel good about themselves to think they have choices but no. Ties directly to this conversation.

Pj has influenced lots of people to react differently than they would without . This board is great example.

hedonist

paulonious said:

hedonist said:

paulonious said:

judge much?

How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.

you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.

I just took the time to look at my comments in this thread - not seeing it, sorry.

And to callen - to anyone else disagreeing, for that matter - no worries, this isn't being taken personally by me, but I am scratching my head at some of the assumptions made, not to mention the tone.

rr165892

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

paulonious said:

rr165892 said:

jeffbr said:

Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.

So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.

hedonist said:

To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).

Talk about judging. Sheesh!

No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.

Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.

yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.

It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.

Bad choices get made. There is no dount about that. All of us want personal accountability in the members of our society, some of think that the tools are missing fpr some people to take those steps that lead to accountability.
Food addiction is a real issue, much bigger than the affordability debate.
RR I know you know this is true, you have a firm grasp on your diet and exercise and you have your cheat day for a reason. Ad important as your health is to you, you wouldn't have that day if it wasn't because sugarfat foods are so delish and powerfully effective to the brain.
Not everyone is as strong as you, or I, or Last 12Exit... Some addicts are worse than others and usually they are weaker, we have to try to eliminate the addiction at the source and then move to the hardline accountability stance.

I agree.Thats why educating those who need the tools to make better decisions helps.And I'm totally on board with trying to make a difference at the source and not just at the street level.
Gambs because We live this lifestyle I know the commitment it takes.And I want everyone to feel healthy and happy.It has far reaching ramifications from health care to self image.To setting a good example for our love ones.But it still remains a constant that each person must find the strength to make these changes themselves.

rgambs

rr165892 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

paulonious said:

rr165892 said:

jeffbr said:

Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.

So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.

hedonist said:

To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).

Talk about judging. Sheesh!

No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.

Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.

yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.

It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.

Bad choices get made. There is no dount about that. All of us want personal accountability in the members of our society, some of think that the tools are missing fpr some people to take those steps that lead to accountability.
Food addiction is a real issue, much bigger than the affordability debate.
RR I know you know this is true, you have a firm grasp on your diet and exercise and you have your cheat day for a reason. Ad important as your health is to you, you wouldn't have that day if it wasn't because sugarfat foods are so delish and powerfully effective to the brain.
Not everyone is as strong as you, or I, or Last 12Exit... Some addicts are worse than others and usually they are weaker, we have to try to eliminate the addiction at the source and then move to the hardline accountability stance.

I agree.Thats why educating those who need the tools to make better decisions helps.And I'm totally on board with trying to make a difference at the source and not just at the street level.
Gambs because We live this lifestyle I know the commitment it takes.And I want everyone to feel healthy and happy.It has far reaching ramifications from health care to self image.To setting a good example for our love ones.But it still remains a constant that each person must find the strength to make these changes themselves.

Very true. It is alot more of a demand to expect that strength from some than it is to expect it from outstanding folks like us! PJ fans are the cream of the crop!

rr165892

paulonious said:

rr165892 said:

paulonious said:

rr165892 said:

jeffbr said:

Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.

So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.

hedonist said:

To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).

Talk about judging. Sheesh!

No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.

Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.

yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.

It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.

judge much?

You know what Hugh/Paul.I get that I pissed you off last week on this very subject,but I think you are missing what I'm trying to say.Advocating for personal responsibility is not judging.Wanting people to be accountable for there actions is not judging.Wanting grown ass adults to make smart decisions on behalf of their kids and setting a good example is not judging.Ive not judged once.
And like last 12 piggy backed off my post earlier.Its fact If you smoke you are making a poor health choice.No judging,just fact.

rr165892

I'm not saying my actions are superior to anyone else's,or looking down on those less fortunate.I want to be part of the change that can impact others lives for the better.That should be perfectly clear if you read what I'm saying.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I don't typically think of poor people as obese people. Poor people are typically those people that do without. Obese people are most certainly not doing without.

In certain cases- such as the 5 year old I referenced earlier- people haven't had much of a chance from the start: they were obese before they could even make decisions for themselves. Shitty deal for sure.

Obese people are not powerless and of course battling obesity is hard... but not everything in life is easy. The fact that fighting obesity is difficult doesn't excuse anyone from not trying to manage their personal health.

People with all kinds of illnesses ignore risk factors and medical advice. Do we excuse a smoker for ending up with lung cancer? For that matter, do we excuse the gambler from losing their life savings? Do we excuse a womanizer for contracting HIV?

All the above are unfortunate, but ultimately... as much as some so desperately want to divorce the individual from their actions... the responsibility lies with the individual. The womanizer may have been influenced to pursue women through television shows and magazines... but Two and 1/2 Men and Cosmopolitan are not responsible for his decisions just like McDonald's ads with Michael Jordan are not responsible for a fat guy buying a Big Mac for the seventh day in a row.

HughFreakingDillon

hedonist said:

paulonious said:

hedonist said:

paulonious said:

judge much?

How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.

you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.

I just took the time to look at my comments in this thread - not seeing it, sorry.

And to callen - to anyone else disagreeing, for that matter - no worries, this isn't being taken personally by me, but I am scratching my head at some of the assumptions made, not to mention the tone.

The quote function fucked up. I wasnt quoting you, but a quote of your was contained in that persons quote, and it came up with your name for some readon.

HughFreakingDillon

rr165892 said:

paulonious said:

rr165892 said:

paulonious said:

rr165892 said:

jeffbr said:

Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.

So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.

hedonist said:

To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).

Talk about judging. Sheesh!

No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.

Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.

yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.

It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.

judge much?

You know what Hugh/Paul.I get that I pissed you off last week on this very subject,but I think you are missing what I'm trying to say.Advocating for personal responsibility is not judging.Wanting people to be accountable for there actions is not judging.Wanting grown ass adults to make smart decisions on behalf of their kids and setting a good example is not judging.Ive not judged once.
And like last 12 piggy backed off my post earlier.Its fact If you smoke you are making a poor health choice.No judging,just fact.

I honestly dont know what you are referring to here about pissing me off. But i have said repeatedly that i agree that personal responsibility ispart of it, just not all of it, as most seem to be suggesting. It is not all black and white.

HughFreakingDillon

Oh, now i remember what you mean! Yeah, i tried to forget that thread.