Most of the people (I would honestly guess 90%) commenting in this thread grew up and went to schools that served balanced meals and had 0 junkfood vending machines. Now the schools literally serve Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, amd McD's and have separate vending machines for soda, candy, and chips.
A lot of people in low economic areas don't even graduate high school. A large percentage of the men spend their lives in and out of prison and the women raise multiple babies alone yet people here think they should be food educated? A lot of people I know know nothing about the food industry and how harmful it can actually be. Poor people see a 2 dollar value meal, they know it will fill them up and they eat it. It takes a lot of time and reading to understand what is healthy what is isn't. Yes, some things are obvious but some are not. And the message changes all the time. One year eggs are bad, the next year they're good. A lot of people I know still eat McDonald's and other crap food and I consider them well educated. It's only been in the last 5 years or so that average people have really started investigating what is in their food. The slow food movement was started 20 years ago but it's really only now gaining momentum. It will take many years before this knowledge is widespread among the low income families. This isn't just in America. I read an article that the same exact thing is true in the UK. (I'll try and find it.) It states that you can identify what class a person is from by their weight. People with money are educated and eat healthier.
This problem goes way beyond making an educated choice at the supermarket especially when you have no education on the subject. Low income people are generally run down by life and food science has no interest in their life. Should it? Yes, of course, but it's not going to happen.
I'd be interested to see some stats on this type of curriculum and which neighbourhood demographics employ them. I would bet the "rougher" schools wouldn't. But that's just a hunch.
In Detroit there are several initiatives going on with community gardens, also in the rougher neighbourhoods. Detroit is of course just an example, but the whole food supply via supermarkets etc seems to be in extremely bad shape there. These projects want to try and improve the infrastructure by cultivating the empty parcels and using them for agriculture. They encourage people to join in several projects. There are hopes and ideas to make this into something that actually becomes a business at one point, but it is still in its infancy. Here's something to read about it. http://grist.org/article/food-from-motown-to-growtown-the-greening-of-detroit/full/ I love the idea. “Even if the gardening movement had no economic viability, just the fact that it’s bringing people together for the common good is very significant. African-Americans in Detroit tend to have a sense of despair and helplessness that is a direct result of oppression. Producing even some of our own food restores a sense of power, a sense that we can shape our own destiny.”
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
But staying in shape with simple calisthenics do make you lose weight. And doesn't cost a dime.
Not every person living below the poverty line is over weight.
This just isn't true. "Calories in calories out" is a fallacy pushed by the food industries. As others pointed out, "low-fat" and reduced calorie foods just add sugar and are no better for you.
The documentary "Fed Up" would teach some of you alot about obesity and whwy its such a problem.
That's right. It is found that you will not lose weight doing exercise and weight training alone. (I'm an example of it) You must eat less to lose any amount of weight, and there's no way around it.
I'd be interested to see some stats on this type of curriculum and which neighbourhood demographics employ them. I would bet the "rougher" schools wouldn't. But that's just a hunch.
In Detroit there are several initiatives going on with community gardens, also in the rougher neighbourhoods. Detroit is of course just an example, but the whole food supply via supermarkets etc seems to be in extremely bad shape there. These projects want to try and improve the infrastructure by cultivating the empty parcels and using them for agriculture. They encourage people to join in several projects. There are hopes and ideas to make this into something that actually becomes a business at one point, but it is still in its infancy. Here's something to read about it. http://grist.org/article/food-from-motown-to-growtown-the-greening-of-detroit/full/ I love the idea. “Even if the gardening movement had no economic viability, just the fact that it’s bringing people together for the common good is very significant. African-Americans in Detroit tend to have a sense of despair and helplessness that is a direct result of oppression. Producing even some of our own food restores a sense of power, a sense that we can shape our own destiny.”
Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.
So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.
To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).
Talk about judging. Sheesh!
No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.
Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.
yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.
To be clear, I have not once called anyone lazy or dumb or said I was better than anybody. My choices in life are exactly that, mine. What I have said is that everyone (including the poor) can eat healthier and excercise without high cost. I didn't say that you can prevent a heart attack by doing simple calisthenics. What I did say and what my point continues to be is that you don't need a Harvard education to know which foods are good for you and which ones are not. And that poor education is poor excuse for the obesity problem this country faces. I've stated several times that I understand that there are people that have conditions that prevent them from losing weight easily.
I've also said that I am not a fan of people making excuses. Using environment, income, and poor education as a crutch for buying a box of ding dongs instead of a bag of Apple's. That is what it sounds like when you guys are citing web sites that link sugar addiction with heroin. Personal accountability is gone. Somebody else is always to blame.
I see a lot of posts referring to class as being the culprit, but seriously, look around. Obesity exists in every class. I see executives who are obese. I see well-to-do families that are very heavy. Hell, my family just came back from Disney a few weeks ago. Hands down, the average Disney visitor is overweight.
I haven't heard anyone bring up portion sizes either. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, a Happy Meal; a small hamburger, small fry and a small soda equaled a meal. (I know it still does for a kid with a larger amount of fries now and certainly a larger soda). Adult portions have nearly doubled, a Big Mac may not have changed much, but the fry sizes have nearly doubled and the sizes of the soft drinks have tripled - or MORE.
Portions have gotten SO MUCH larger since then, and the average size of a person has gotten so much bigger. Have we evolved since the 70s? No. Our food and beverage industries have gotten gluttonous and we are the victims. It is up to us to control our appetites while being aware that the food industries are constantly attempting to manipulate our behavior with making portions larger and making foods more widely available and convenient. This is all about profits at the mercy of our health. All we need is to be smarter about society, smarter about the media and smarter about what we put into our bodies and how often. Every single one of us in this society are forced to see fast foods everywhere unless you live in East Jesus. Every one of us have choices. It's not strictly a class issue.
In Detroit there are several initiatives going on with community gardens, also in the rougher neighbourhoods. Detroit is of course just an example, but the whole food supply via supermarkets etc seems to be in extremely bad shape there. These projects want to try and improve the infrastructure by cultivating the empty parcels and using them for agriculture. They encourage people to join in several projects. There are hopes and ideas to make this into something that actually becomes a business at one point, but it is still in its infancy. Here's something to read about it. http://grist.org/article/food-from-motown-to-growtown-the-greening-of-detroit/full/ I love the idea. “Even if the gardening movement had no economic viability, just the fact that it’s bringing people together for the common good is very significant. African-Americans in Detroit tend to have a sense of despair and helplessness that is a direct result of oppression. Producing even some of our own food restores a sense of power, a sense that we can shape our own destiny.”
The same is happening here, slowly but surely. I too love the idea.
gambo, this child of the 70s had school lunches consisting of burritos, burgers, sloppy joe's and pizza!
bsL, good points made - kind of ties into the waste comment I made earlier somewhere in this thread.
Anyway...hopefully the (non?)personal digs can be held at bay.
To be clear, I have not once called anyone lazy or dumb or said I was better than anybody. My choices in life are exactly that, mine. What I have said is that everyone (including the poor) can eat healthier and excercise without high cost. I didn't say that you can prevent a heart attack by doing simple calisthenics. What I did say and what my point continues to be is that you don't need a Harvard education to know which foods are good for you and which ones are not. And that poor education is poor excuse for the obesity problem this country faces. I've stated several times that I understand that there are people that have conditions that prevent them from losing weight easily.
I've also said that I am not a fan of people making excuses. Using environment, income, and poor education as a crutch for buying a box of ding dongs instead of a bag of Apple's. That is what it sounds like when you guys are citing web sites that link sugar addiction with heroin. Personal accountability is gone. Somebody else is always to blame.
I don't know anyone who likes people who blame others for their problems. But it isn't always the case where everyone is to blame for their own situation. Environment (current and past) have a LOT to do with how people behave and the choices they make, including something as rudimentary as food. Studies have proven that. Hell, YOU have proven that! if you tell me you grew up eating fast food and processed food more often than fresh, and you then changed that around, then I will tell you flat out that I am incorrect. it's the same in the reverse. you grow up eating 3 meals a day for 20 years a certain way, that's an incredible habit to break.
Can people make better choices? Of course they can. But for some it's a much bigger obstacle to do so than it is for people in our position. And it's just too damn easy to say "your own fault" rather than digging deeper and seeing if there is something we can do as a larger community to get our fellow humans out of this. We'd all be better for it. So why not have the discussion instead of stifling it with "not my problem/fault"?
Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.
So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.
To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).
Talk about judging. Sheesh!
No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.
Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.
yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.
It is clearly being used by an excuse by some of you, but I don't think it needs to be. Somebody is spending $$ for food for these obese people. That money could be better spent. That is my point. If someone had no money at all we'd be talking about poverty leading to starvation. Obesity means they are eating. Clearly they are eating the wrong things, in the wrong amounts. It isn't strictly a money issue. It is about education, choices, lifestyle.
I agree with Callen that I'm lucky. But it isn't only luck. I have a riches-to-rags story I won't bother boring people with, and can tell you that when I had ridiculous money, I also had about 35 more pounds on me. When the money well dried up I had to be smarter about the choices I made spending the money I have. Those choices have led to healthier eating, watching everything I eat, portion control, nutritional value, being a more informed consumer, and a lot less dining out.
Anyway, it sounds like some of you are excusing or absolving bad choices based on income level. Others are saying (rightly so in some cases), that education is lacking, but also saying that the poor don't care or can't be burdened to care about healthy food and nutrition. I think someone who doesn't have disposable income should care more and be more resourceful with every dollar they spend than someone who has a fat bank account. So I guess we'll just remain at am impasse.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.
So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.
To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).
Talk about judging. Sheesh!
No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.
Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.
yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.
It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.
I see a lot of posts referring to class as being the culprit, but seriously, look around. Obesity exists in every class. I see executives who are obese. I see well-to-do families that are very heavy. Hell, my family just came back from Disney a few weeks ago. Hands down, the average Disney visitor is overweight.
I haven't heard anyone bring up portion sizes either. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, a Happy Meal; a small hamburger, small fry and a small soda equaled a meal. (I know it still does for a kid with a larger amount of fries now and certainly a larger soda). Adult portions have nearly doubled, a Big Mac may not have changed much, but the fry sizes have nearly doubled and the sizes of the soft drinks have tripled - or MORE.
Portions have gotten SO MUCH larger since then, and the average size of a person has gotten so much bigger. Have we evolved since the 70s? No. Our food and beverage industries have gotten gluttonous and we are the victims. It is up to us to control our appetites while being aware that the food industries are constantly attempting to manipulate our behavior with making portions larger and making foods more widely available and convenient. This is all about profits at the mercy of our health. All we need is to be smarter about society, smarter about the media and smarter about what we put into our bodies and how often. Every single one of us in this society are forced to see fast foods everywhere unless you live in East Jesus. Every one of us have choices. It's not strictly a class issue.
You are right BSL.Its not about social class.Its about personal responsibility.
I have only watched the first few minutes but will watch the rest later when I have the time.
It looks like a well done piece looking at the cause of obesity and finding a solution. Instead of just blaming this huge problem on people being lazy.
Should be required watching for everyone on the AMT.
Why do you think that these "Biggest Loser" shows are so popular? Because saying you're going to eat better, saying you're going to exercise is so easy but actually changing your lifestyle, changing the way you live is SO MUCH harder. Those shows are popular because it shows someone succeeding, making a very difficult choice to having a trainer force them into somewhat of a withdrawl from the foods they like and the lifestyle they choose in order to have a healthier body. Everyone can relate to that, because we all have become accustomed to eating more and more unhealthily and gaining weight ourselves.
We're all in the same boat here. We all have to struggle with the luxury that food has become to us rather than simply being a fuel to run our bodies. Saying something and doing something is two very different things. It's so easy to say we should eat better, but so difficult to actually do it. We don't judge ourselves, we judge others. Why is that? Look in the mirror.
I see a lot of posts referring to class as being the culprit, but seriously, look around. Obesity exists in every class. I see executives who are obese. I see well-to-do families that are very heavy. Hell, my family just came back from Disney a few weeks ago. Hands down, the average Disney visitor is overweight.
I haven't heard anyone bring up portion sizes either. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, a Happy Meal; a small hamburger, small fry and a small soda equaled a meal. (I know it still does for a kid with a larger amount of fries now and certainly a larger soda). Adult portions have nearly doubled, a Big Mac may not have changed much, but the fry sizes have nearly doubled and the sizes of the soft drinks have tripled - or MORE.
Portions have gotten SO MUCH larger since then, and the average size of a person has gotten so much bigger. Have we evolved since the 70s? No. Our food and beverage industries have gotten gluttonous and we are the victims. It is up to us to control our appetites while being aware that the food industries are constantly attempting to manipulate our behavior with making portions larger and making foods more widely available and convenient. This is all about profits at the mercy of our health. All we need is to be smarter about society, smarter about the media and smarter about what we put into our bodies and how often. Every single one of us in this society are forced to see fast foods everywhere unless you live in East Jesus. Every one of us have choices. It's not strictly a class issue.
You are right BSL.Its not about social class.Its about personal responsibility.
Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.
So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.
To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).
Talk about judging. Sheesh!
No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.
Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.
yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.
It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.
How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.
Taking a more global view, the prestigious British Medical Journal (BMJ) looks at various attempts to tackle obesity and notes that obesity is caused by a complex and multitude of inter-related causes, “fuelled by economic and psychosocial factors as well as increased availability of energy dense food and reduced physical activity.”
The authors broke down the causes into the following areas: Food systems causes of obesity The main problem has been the increased availability of high energy food, because of: •Liberalized international food markets •Food subsidies that “have arguably distorted the food supply in favour of less healthy foodstuffs” •“Transnational food companies [that] have flooded the global market with cheap to produce, energy dense, nutrient empty foods” •“Supermarkets and food service chains [that are] encouraging bulk purchases, convenience foods, and supersized portions” •Healthy eating often being more expensive than less healthy options, (despite global food prices having dropped on average). •Marketing, especially “food advertising through television [which] aims to persuade individuals—particularly children—that they desire foods high in saturated fats, sugars, and salt.” The local environment and obesity How people live, what factors make them active or sedentary are also a factor. For exapmle, •“Research, mainly in high income countries, indicates that local urban planning and design can influence weight in several ways.” •For example, levels of physical activity are affected by •Connected streets and the ability to walk from place to place •Provision of and access to local public facilities and spaces for recreation and play
•The increasing reliance on cars leads to physical inactivity, and while a long-time problem in rich countries, is a growing problem in developing countries. Social conditions and obesity Examples of issues the BMJ noted here include •“Working and living conditions, such as having enough money for a healthy standard of living, underpin compliance with national health guidelines” •“Increasingly less job control, security, flexibility of working hours, and access to paid family leave … undermining the material and psychosocial resources necessary for empowering individuals and communities to make healthy living choices.” •Inequality, which can lead to different groups being disadvantaged and having less access to needed resources and healthier foods
How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.
you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.
Obesity also affects the poor as well, due to things like marketing of unhealthy foods as the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO) highlights. “Restrictions in access to food determine two simultaneous phenomena that are two sides of the same coin: poor people are malnourished because they do not have enough to feed themselves, and they are obese because they eat poorly, with an important energy imbalance… The food they can afford is often cheap, industrialized, mass produced, and inexpensive.”
while fast food was used as the prime example in the beginning of the thread, the reality is, the real issue is the above: highly processed, low nutrition, high sodium foods that are found in supermarkets. they ARE cheaper than fresh vegetables. for reasons I explained earlier.
How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.
you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.
Saying people that buy Marlboros instead of Apple's are making bad choices is not judging. It's a fact.
Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.
So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.
To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).
Talk about judging. Sheesh!
No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.
Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.
yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.
It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.
Bad choices get made. There is no dount about that. All of us want personal accountability in the members of our society, some of think that the tools are missing fpr some people to take those steps that lead to accountability. Food addiction is a real issue, much bigger than the affordability debate. RR I know you know this is true, you have a firm grasp on your diet and exercise and you have your cheat day for a reason. Ad important as your health is to you, you wouldn't have that day if it wasn't because sugarfat foods are so delish and powerfully effective to the brain. Not everyone is as strong as you, or I, or Last 12Exit... Some addicts are worse than others and usually they are weaker, we have to try to eliminate the addiction at the source and then move to the hardline accountability stance.
How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.
you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.
Saying people that buy Marlboros instead of Apple's are making bad choices is not judging. It's a fact.
well, I guess I have a different dictionary than you do. I choose to discuss causes and possible solutions rather than just say "fuck em".
Comments
A lot of people I know still eat McDonald's and other crap food and I consider them well educated. It's only been in the last 5 years or so that average people have really started investigating what is in their food. The slow food movement was started 20 years ago but it's really only now gaining momentum. It will take many years before this knowledge is widespread among the low income families.
This isn't just in America. I read an article that the same exact thing is true in the UK. (I'll try and find it.) It states that you can identify what class a person is from by their weight. People with money are educated and eat healthier.
This problem goes way beyond making an educated choice at the supermarket especially when you have no education on the subject. Low income people are generally run down by life and food science has no interest in their life. Should it? Yes, of course, but it's not going to happen.
These projects want to try and improve the infrastructure by cultivating the empty parcels and using them for agriculture. They encourage people to join in several projects. There are hopes and ideas to make this into something that actually becomes a business at one point, but it is still in its infancy.
Here's something to read about it. http://grist.org/article/food-from-motown-to-growtown-the-greening-of-detroit/full/
I love the idea.
“Even if the gardening movement had no economic viability, just the fact that it’s bringing people together for the common good is very significant. African-Americans in Detroit tend to have a sense of despair and helplessness that is a direct result of oppression. Producing even some of our own food restores a sense of power, a sense that we can shape our own destiny.”
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I've also said that I am not a fan of people making excuses. Using environment, income, and poor education as a crutch for buying a box of ding dongs instead of a bag of Apple's. That is what it sounds like when you guys are citing web sites that link sugar addiction with heroin. Personal accountability is gone. Somebody else is always to blame.
I haven't heard anyone bring up portion sizes either. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, a Happy Meal; a small hamburger, small fry and a small soda equaled a meal. (I know it still does for a kid with a larger amount of fries now and certainly a larger soda). Adult portions have nearly doubled, a Big Mac may not have changed much, but the fry sizes have nearly doubled and the sizes of the soft drinks have tripled - or MORE.
Portions have gotten SO MUCH larger since then, and the average size of a person has gotten so much bigger. Have we evolved since the 70s? No. Our food and beverage industries have gotten gluttonous and we are the victims. It is up to us to control our appetites while being aware that the food industries are constantly attempting to manipulate our behavior with making portions larger and making foods more widely available and convenient. This is all about profits at the mercy of our health. All we need is to be smarter about society, smarter about the media and smarter about what we put into our bodies and how often. Every single one of us in this society are forced to see fast foods everywhere unless you live in East Jesus. Every one of us have choices. It's not strictly a class issue.
gambo, this child of the 70s had school lunches consisting of burritos, burgers, sloppy joe's and pizza!
bsL, good points made - kind of ties into the waste comment I made earlier somewhere in this thread.
Anyway...hopefully the (non?)personal digs can be held at bay.
Can people make better choices? Of course they can. But for some it's a much bigger obstacle to do so than it is for people in our position. And it's just too damn easy to say "your own fault" rather than digging deeper and seeing if there is something we can do as a larger community to get our fellow humans out of this. We'd all be better for it. So why not have the discussion instead of stifling it with "not my problem/fault"?
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I agree with Callen that I'm lucky. But it isn't only luck. I have a riches-to-rags story I won't bother boring people with, and can tell you that when I had ridiculous money, I also had about 35 more pounds on me. When the money well dried up I had to be smarter about the choices I made spending the money I have. Those choices have led to healthier eating, watching everything I eat, portion control, nutritional value, being a more informed consumer, and a lot less dining out.
Anyway, it sounds like some of you are excusing or absolving bad choices based on income level. Others are saying (rightly so in some cases), that education is lacking, but also saying that the poor don't care or can't be burdened to care about healthy food and nutrition. I think someone who doesn't have disposable income should care more and be more resourceful with every dollar they spend than someone who has a fat bank account. So I guess we'll just remain at am impasse.
I have only watched the first few minutes but will watch the rest later when I have the time.
It looks like a well done piece looking at the cause of obesity and finding a solution. Instead of just blaming this huge problem on people being lazy.
Should be required watching for everyone on the AMT.
We're all in the same boat here. We all have to struggle with the luxury that food has become to us rather than simply being a fuel to run our bodies. Saying something and doing something is two very different things. It's so easy to say we should eat better, but so difficult to actually do it. We don't judge ourselves, we judge others. Why is that? Look in the mirror.
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Various causes of obesity
Taking a more global view, the prestigious British Medical Journal (BMJ) looks at various attempts to tackle obesity and notes that obesity is caused by a complex and multitude of inter-related causes, “fuelled by economic and psychosocial factors as well as increased availability of energy dense food and reduced physical activity.”
The authors broke down the causes into the following areas:
Food systems causes of obesity
The main problem has been the increased availability of high energy food, because of:
•Liberalized international food markets
•Food subsidies that “have arguably distorted the food supply in favour of less healthy foodstuffs”
•“Transnational food companies [that] have flooded the global market with cheap to produce, energy dense, nutrient empty foods”
•“Supermarkets and food service chains [that are] encouraging bulk purchases, convenience foods, and supersized portions”
•Healthy eating often being more expensive than less healthy options, (despite global food prices having dropped on average).
•Marketing, especially “food advertising through television [which] aims to persuade individuals—particularly children—that they desire foods high in saturated fats, sugars, and salt.”
The local environment and obesity
How people live, what factors make them active or sedentary are also a factor. For exapmle,
•“Research, mainly in high income countries, indicates that local urban planning and design can influence weight in several ways.”
•For example, levels of physical activity are affected by •Connected streets and the ability to walk from place to place
•Provision of and access to local public facilities and spaces for recreation and play
•The increasing reliance on cars leads to physical inactivity, and while a long-time problem in rich countries, is a growing problem in developing countries.
Social conditions and obesity
Examples of issues the BMJ noted here include
•“Working and living conditions, such as having enough money for a healthy standard of living, underpin compliance with national health guidelines”
•“Increasingly less job control, security, flexibility of working hours, and access to paid family leave … undermining the material and psychosocial resources necessary for empowering individuals and communities to make healthy living choices.”
•Inequality, which can lead to different groups being disadvantaged and having less access to needed resources and healthier foods
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Obesity also affects the poor as well, due to things like marketing of unhealthy foods as the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO) highlights. “Restrictions in access to food determine two simultaneous phenomena that are two sides of the same coin: poor people are malnourished because they do not have enough to feed themselves, and they are obese because they eat poorly, with an important energy imbalance… The food they can afford is often cheap, industrialized, mass produced, and inexpensive.”
while fast food was used as the prime example in the beginning of the thread, the reality is, the real issue is the above: highly processed, low nutrition, high sodium foods that are found in supermarkets. they ARE cheaper than fresh vegetables. for reasons I explained earlier.
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Bad choices get made. There is no dount about that. All of us want personal accountability in the members of our society, some of think that the tools are missing fpr some people to take those steps that lead to accountability.
Food addiction is a real issue, much bigger than the affordability debate.
RR I know you know this is true, you have a firm grasp on your diet and exercise and you have your cheat day for a reason. Ad important as your health is to you, you wouldn't have that day if it wasn't because sugarfat foods are so delish and powerfully effective to the brain.
Not everyone is as strong as you, or I, or Last 12Exit... Some addicts are worse than others and usually they are weaker, we have to try to eliminate the addiction at the source and then move to the hardline accountability stance.
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