Don't think you have any free will. You react depending on past experiences. It may make one feel good about themselves to think they have choices but no. Ties directly to this conversation.
Pj has influenced lots of people to react differently than they would without . This board is great example.
How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.
you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.
I just took the time to look at my comments in this thread - not seeing it, sorry.
And to callen - to anyone else disagreeing, for that matter - no worries, this isn't being taken personally by me, but I am scratching my head at some of the assumptions made, not to mention the tone.
Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.
So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.
To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).
Talk about judging. Sheesh!
No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.
Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.
yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.
It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.
Bad choices get made. There is no dount about that. All of us want personal accountability in the members of our society, some of think that the tools are missing fpr some people to take those steps that lead to accountability. Food addiction is a real issue, much bigger than the affordability debate. RR I know you know this is true, you have a firm grasp on your diet and exercise and you have your cheat day for a reason. Ad important as your health is to you, you wouldn't have that day if it wasn't because sugarfat foods are so delish and powerfully effective to the brain. Not everyone is as strong as you, or I, or Last 12Exit... Some addicts are worse than others and usually they are weaker, we have to try to eliminate the addiction at the source and then move to the hardline accountability stance.
I agree.Thats why educating those who need the tools to make better decisions helps.And I'm totally on board with trying to make a difference at the source and not just at the street level. Gambs because We live this lifestyle I know the commitment it takes.And I want everyone to feel healthy and happy.It has far reaching ramifications from health care to self image.To setting a good example for our love ones.But it still remains a constant that each person must find the strength to make these changes themselves.
Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.
So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.
To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).
Talk about judging. Sheesh!
No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.
Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.
yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.
It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.
Bad choices get made. There is no dount about that. All of us want personal accountability in the members of our society, some of think that the tools are missing fpr some people to take those steps that lead to accountability. Food addiction is a real issue, much bigger than the affordability debate. RR I know you know this is true, you have a firm grasp on your diet and exercise and you have your cheat day for a reason. Ad important as your health is to you, you wouldn't have that day if it wasn't because sugarfat foods are so delish and powerfully effective to the brain. Not everyone is as strong as you, or I, or Last 12Exit... Some addicts are worse than others and usually they are weaker, we have to try to eliminate the addiction at the source and then move to the hardline accountability stance.
I agree.Thats why educating those who need the tools to make better decisions helps.And I'm totally on board with trying to make a difference at the source and not just at the street level. Gambs because We live this lifestyle I know the commitment it takes.And I want everyone to feel healthy and happy.It has far reaching ramifications from health care to self image.To setting a good example for our love ones.But it still remains a constant that each person must find the strength to make these changes themselves.
Very true. It is alot more of a demand to expect that strength from some than it is to expect it from outstanding folks like us! PJ fans are the cream of the crop!
Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.
So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.
To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).
Talk about judging. Sheesh!
No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.
Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.
yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.
It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.
judge much?
You know what Hugh/Paul.I get that I pissed you off last week on this very subject,but I think you are missing what I'm trying to say.Advocating for personal responsibility is not judging.Wanting people to be accountable for there actions is not judging.Wanting grown ass adults to make smart decisions on behalf of their kids and setting a good example is not judging.Ive not judged once. And like last 12 piggy backed off my post earlier.Its fact If you smoke you are making a poor health choice.No judging,just fact.
I'm not saying my actions are superior to anyone else's,or looking down on those less fortunate.I want to be part of the change that can impact others lives for the better.That should be perfectly clear if you read what I'm saying.
I don't typically think of poor people as obese people. Poor people are typically those people that do without. Obese people are most certainly not doing without.
In certain cases- such as the 5 year old I referenced earlier- people haven't had much of a chance from the start: they were obese before they could even make decisions for themselves. Shitty deal for sure.
Obese people are not powerless and of course battling obesity is hard... but not everything in life is easy. The fact that fighting obesity is difficult doesn't excuse anyone from not trying to manage their personal health.
People with all kinds of illnesses ignore risk factors and medical advice. Do we excuse a smoker for ending up with lung cancer? For that matter, do we excuse the gambler from losing their life savings? Do we excuse a womanizer for contracting HIV?
All the above are unfortunate, but ultimately... as much as some so desperately want to divorce the individual from their actions... the responsibility lies with the individual. The womanizer may have been influenced to pursue women through television shows and magazines... but Two and 1/2 Men and Cosmopolitan are not responsible for his decisions just like McDonald's ads with Michael Jordan are not responsible for a fat guy buying a Big Mac for the seventh day in a row.
How is that judging - negatively? I'm just not getting how suggesting there are better options to exercise is tantamount to calling someone lazy in the inferred (and seemingly-preferred) sense that it has to do with income or place in life.
you made a sweeping comment on a few lifestyle choices that you seem to deem as irresponsible, when many people who also take part in those activities, do so in moderation and are very healthy individuals. it cannot be broken down so generally and stereotypically.
I just took the time to look at my comments in this thread - not seeing it, sorry.
And to callen - to anyone else disagreeing, for that matter - no worries, this isn't being taken personally by me, but I am scratching my head at some of the assumptions made, not to mention the tone.
The quote function fucked up. I wasnt quoting you, but a quote of your was contained in that persons quote, and it came up with your name for some readon.
Thanks for the thread, Speedy. It was a good read. I am firmly in the camp that the majority of the poor cannot use poverty as an excuse for obesity since they're obviously spending money on some sort of food. There can be many other factors from lack of education about nutrition, to easily accessible quality food in their neighborhoods, to them placing a lower priority on nutrition in the face of other perceived higher-priority issues in their lives (paying the rent, keeping their families safe, etc...). As many have pointed out in this thread, eating healthy does not have to cost more. In fact, in most cases it will cost less than buying fast food or pre-packaged, processed food. The problem is that it takes conscious effort to make it less expensive. I shop sales. I buy meat after it has been marked down as a Manager's Special as it approaches expiration and take it right home to the freezer. I buy big bags of rice and beans. My wife shops coupons and takes advantage of sales to stock the pantry. We know what things should cost from experience, and won't overpay. We'll go without some things and wait for a sale. We plan our menus. Last week I cooked a number of dinners, each feeding a 3 adults and providing leftovers, for under $10 each. I made lettuce wraps, a Hungarian cauliflower soup, some German Rouladen, and chicken gyros last week for dinners. Probably once a week we I'll make a pizza crust (flour and water are cheap!), and repurpose some leftovers into some sort of pizza. The week before I had some leftover shredded chicken we used in burritos, and I made a Mexican chicken style pizza. Last week I repurposed some Asian style ground turkey we used for lettuce wraps into an Asian style pizza. It is fun to experiment, and a fun way to eat leftovers by turning them into something different. Those meals cost even less, since I'd already accounted for the cost in the original meal and I used minimal ingredients to create a new meal from it.
So many people in the thread making excuses for others. It does come down to accountability, and it takes effort. There will always be exceptions who really are in situations where they may not be able to eat nutritiously and cheaply, but diggin's article notwithstanding, there are plenty of families out there who could do a much, much better job with their menu planning and grocery shopping. I, too, have seen plenty of people pay for pre-made, processed, ready-to-eat or frozen meals with their government assistance. I look at their basket, I look at my basket, and I know who is eating better and more cheaply. The one paying more for their basket can least afford to, and could with some effort fix it. Those are the people I think most in this thread are talking about.
To be clear, my questioning the choices some make to NOT educate themselves isn't equatable to my feeling or thinking I'm above anyone (nor does anyone need to prove their empathetic side).
Talk about judging. Sheesh!
No kidding. It is funny how those who accuse others of being judgmental are making some pretty big judgments themselves. The only way one forms an opinion is through judgment, isn't it? We have to make some sort of judgment about something in order to even have an opinion unless we're all sitting around reciting well-established, uncontested factual information to each other, which sounds pretty boring to me.
Jeff,there you go trying to make sense again.You about summed it up perfect.
yeah, saying "poverty is no excuse" sure makes loads of sense.
It's not at all.People still have to eat.Make better choices.period.Self accountability.no excuses.Put down the fucking Big Mac or Doritos taco and grab an apple,banana,or carrot sticks.Drink water it's free and put down the soda.I know there is some extenuating circumstances but why do so many on this board make excuses for others poor health decisions.These same people who have no money for healthier food choices do they smoke?Drink?do drugs? If any of them can answer yes then they are making bad choices period.
judge much?
You know what Hugh/Paul.I get that I pissed you off last week on this very subject,but I think you are missing what I'm trying to say.Advocating for personal responsibility is not judging.Wanting people to be accountable for there actions is not judging.Wanting grown ass adults to make smart decisions on behalf of their kids and setting a good example is not judging.Ive not judged once. And like last 12 piggy backed off my post earlier.Its fact If you smoke you are making a poor health choice.No judging,just fact.
I honestly dont know what you are referring to here about pissing me off. But i have said repeatedly that i agree that personal responsibility ispart of it, just not all of it, as most seem to be suggesting. It is not all black and white.
The comments in this thread honestly remind me of a recent scandal of a local politicians wife posting on facebook that "those lazy natives should stop begging for money and just get off their lazy asses and get a job already", like laziness really was the main reason they didnt change their lifestyles. And a guy i work with said "well if the native guy on my hockey team can do it, so can they!". Yep, totally cut and dry, very simple issue.
The comments in this thread honestly remind me of a recent scandal of a local politicians wife posting on facebook that "those lazy natives should stop begging for money and just get off their lazy asses and get a job already", like laziness really was the main reason they didnt change their lifestyles. And a guy i work with said "well if the native guy on my hockey team can do it, so can they!". Yep, totally cut and dry, very simple issue.
Buy a bag of apples....problem solved! Lol
It is a little more simple than some are making it out to be though.
People are talking as if obese people simply had no other choice but to be obese. While I can admit that in some cases, this is true... in many... it's not.
This thread is classic from my perspective though. If people aren't trying to justify ISIS and their actions by blaming their homosexual tower launches, beheadings, burnings, and other acts of aggression on the infidels... or criminals for engaging in criminal behaviour... they are now trying to deflect responsibility for obese people's lifestyles.
The comments in this thread honestly remind me of a recent scandal of a local politicians wife posting on facebook that "those lazy natives should stop begging for money and just get off their lazy asses and get a job already", like laziness really was the main reason they didnt change their lifestyles. And a guy i work with said "well if the native guy on my hockey team can do it, so can they!". Yep, totally cut and dry, very simple issue.
Buy a bag of apples....problem solved! Lol
It is a little more simple than some are making it out to be though.
People are talking as if obese people simply had no other choice but to be obese. While I can admit that in some cases, this is true... in many... it's not.
This thread is classic from my perspective though. If people aren't trying to justify ISIS and their actions by blaming their homosexual tower launches, beheadings, burnings, and other acts of aggression on the infidels... or criminals for engaging in criminal behaviour... they are now trying to deflect responsibility for obese people's lifestyles.
Some of us are looking at this from a perspective of how to solve this issue.
Others just want to point and yell......shame! That is no solution.
Seriously though, the evidence shows there are way more factors at play for the majority of obese people than some would imply. It is not as simple as saying someone is weak willed and no self control.
If you haven't watched that HBO doc that eddiec posted earlier in this thread, I would suggest you should. It makes the argument clear.....in a way I never could.
The entire basis of this thread is about judgment. We won't solve obesity pointing fingers like we are here.
How is discussing or making observations pointing fingers? Thank goodness it IS being discussed for the most part.
Many facets to this, and yes - laziness is one of them. ONE of them. Many have mentioned other reasons. And really, does it have to be noted that using the word "lazy" isn't intended with the accompaniment of superiority or a view blinded by income or neighborhood or genes or anything else, but a sense of basic knowledge that most adults should be able to get hold of
Unless I'm delusional, I don't think anyone here has claimed to be perfect or above any kind of reproach. One of the things I like about this place and at the same time, I can't help but sometimes think "the fuck" in how differently we see things. Actually, not necessarily things/issues, but each other.
By the way, Thirty, appreciate your post toward the top of this page.
The comments in this thread honestly remind me of a recent scandal of a local politicians wife posting on facebook that "those lazy natives should stop begging for money and just get off their lazy asses and get a job already", like laziness really was the main reason they didnt change their lifestyles. And a guy i work with said "well if the native guy on my hockey team can do it, so can they!". Yep, totally cut and dry, very simple issue.
Buy a bag of apples....problem solved! Lol
It is a little more simple than some are making it out to be though.
People are talking as if obese people simply had no other choice but to be obese. While I can admit that in some cases, this is true... in many... it's not.
This thread is classic from my perspective though. If people aren't trying to justify ISIS and their actions by blaming their homosexual tower launches, beheadings, burnings, and other acts of aggression on the infidels... or criminals for engaging in criminal behaviour... they are now trying to deflect responsibility for obese people's lifestyles.
Some of us are looking at this from a perspective of how to solve this issue.
Others just want to point and yell......shame! That is no solution.
Seriously though, the evidence shows there are way more factors at play for the majority of obese people than some would imply. It is not as simple as saying someone is weak willed and no self control.
If you haven't watched that HBO doc that eddiec posted earlier in this thread, I would suggest you should. It makes the argument clear.....in a way I never could.
Lack of access to healthy (fresh) food and inactivity (no park space) leads to obesity.
There are some cases (as I said earlier) where obesity was set from birth through conditions afforded to children by their parents. The video speaks to the inherent problems associated with living in the inner city and for these people too, I can empathize with them.
There are many other cases though, which I feel share the burden of responsibility. I visit two places in the USA with some frequency: there are many supermarkets in Spokane, however I see many obese people there as well. In Las Vegas (I go to a conference there every year), I see countless obese people that afforded a trip to Las Vegas wearing their finest (big) clothes. I'm not completely familiar with these people's backgrounds, but given my assumptions... I'd say their personal situation isn't that of someone living in the Bronx.
In Canada, I see obesity for no good reason as well- people with good jobs, living in good communities (such as mine), and bursting at the waist. No... good... reason.
So, if we are we talking of an inner city epidemic of obesity given the lack of access to fresh food and park space... I get it.
If we are talking about poor, middle class fat people that have no will control and a tendency to be lazy- refraining from exercise or making an effort to prepare their food- that see a McDonalds advertisement and race out for a McRib ... then I don't get it.
The comments in this thread honestly remind me of a recent scandal of a local politicians wife posting on facebook that "those lazy natives should stop begging for money and just get off their lazy asses and get a job already", like laziness really was the main reason they didnt change their lifestyles. And a guy i work with said "well if the native guy on my hockey team can do it, so can they!". Yep, totally cut and dry, very simple issue.
Buy a bag of apples....problem solved! Lol
It is a little more simple than some are making it out to be though.
People are talking as if obese people simply had no other choice but to be obese. While I can admit that in some cases, this is true... in many... it's not.
This thread is classic from my perspective though. If people aren't trying to justify ISIS and their actions by blaming their homosexual tower launches, beheadings, burnings, and other acts of aggression on the infidels... or criminals for engaging in criminal behaviour... they are now trying to deflect responsibility for obese people's lifestyles.
Some of us are looking at this from a perspective of how to solve this issue.
Others just want to point and yell......shame! That is no solution.
Seriously though, the evidence shows there are way more factors at play for the majority of obese people than some would imply. It is not as simple as saying someone is weak willed and no self control.
If you haven't watched that HBO doc that eddiec posted earlier in this thread, I would suggest you should. It makes the argument clear.....in a way I never could.
Lack of access to healthy (fresh) food and inactivity (no park space) leads to obesity.
There are some cases (as I said earlier) where obesity was set from birth through conditions afforded to children by their parents. The video speaks to the inherent problems associated with living in the inner city and for these people too, I can empathize with them.
There are many other cases though, which I feel share the burden of responsibility. I visit two places in the USA with some frequency: there are many supermarkets in Spokane, however I see many obese people there as well. In Las Vegas (I go to a conference there every year), I see countless obese people that afforded a trip to Las Vegas wearing their finest (big) clothes. I'm not completely familiar with these people's backgrounds, but given my assumptions... I'd say their personal situation isn't that of someone living in the Bronx.
In Canada, I see obesity for no good reason as well- people with good jobs, living in good communities (such as mine), and bursting at the waist. No... good... reason.
So, if we are we talking of an inner city epidemic of obesity given the lack of access to fresh food and park space... I get it.
If we are talking about poor, middle class fat people that have no will control and a tendency to be lazy- refraining from exercise or making an effort to prepare their food- that see a McDonalds advertisement and race out for a McRib ... then I don't get it.
The comments in this thread honestly remind me of a recent scandal of a local politicians wife posting on facebook that "those lazy natives should stop begging for money and just get off their lazy asses and get a job already", like laziness really was the main reason they didnt change their lifestyles. And a guy i work with said "well if the native guy on my hockey team can do it, so can they!". Yep, totally cut and dry, very simple issue.
Buy a bag of apples....problem solved! Lol
It is a little more simple than some are making it out to be though.
People are talking as if obese people simply had no other choice but to be obese. While I can admit that in some cases, this is true... in many... it's not.
This thread is classic from my perspective though. If people aren't trying to justify ISIS and their actions by blaming their homosexual tower launches, beheadings, burnings, and other acts of aggression on the infidels... or criminals for engaging in criminal behaviour... they are now trying to deflect responsibility for obese people's lifestyles.
Some of us are looking at this from a perspective of how to solve this issue.
Others just want to point and yell......shame! That is no solution.
Seriously though, the evidence shows there are way more factors at play for the majority of obese people than some would imply. It is not as simple as saying someone is weak willed and no self control.
If you haven't watched that HBO doc that eddiec posted earlier in this thread, I would suggest you should. It makes the argument clear.....in a way I never could.
Lack of access to healthy (fresh) food and inactivity (no park space) leads to obesity.
There are some cases (as I said earlier) where obesity was set from birth through conditions afforded to children by their parents. The video speaks to the inherent problems associated with living in the inner city and for these people too, I can empathize with them.
There are many other cases though, which I feel share the burden of responsibility. I visit two places in the USA with some frequency: there are many supermarkets in Spokane, however I see many obese people there as well. In Las Vegas (I go to a conference there every year), I see countless obese people that afforded a trip to Las Vegas wearing their finest (big) clothes. I'm not completely familiar with these people's backgrounds, but given my assumptions... I'd say their personal situation isn't that of someone living in the Bronx.
In Canada, I see obesity for no good reason as well- people with good jobs, living in good communities (such as mine), and bursting at the waist. No... good... reason.
So, if we are we talking of an inner city epidemic of obesity given the lack of access to fresh food and park space... I get it.
If we are talking about poor, middle class fat people that have no will control and a tendency to be lazy- refraining from exercise or making an effort to prepare their food- that see a McDonalds advertisement and race out for a McRib ... then I don't get it.
Then you get it. Mostly. Lol
Thank gawd!
For a bit there... I was thinking, "I'm not getting it!"
The comments in this thread honestly remind me of a recent scandal of a local politicians wife posting on facebook that "those lazy natives should stop begging for money and just get off their lazy asses and get a job already", like laziness really was the main reason they didnt change their lifestyles. And a guy i work with said "well if the native guy on my hockey team can do it, so can they!". Yep, totally cut and dry, very simple issue.
Buy a bag of apples....problem solved! Lol
It is a little more simple than some are making it out to be though.
People are talking as if obese people simply had no other choice but to be obese. While I can admit that in some cases, this is true... in many... it's not.
This thread is classic from my perspective though. If people aren't trying to justify ISIS and their actions by blaming their homosexual tower launches, beheadings, burnings, and other acts of aggression on the infidels... or criminals for engaging in criminal behaviour... they are now trying to deflect responsibility for obese people's lifestyles.
Some of us are looking at this from a perspective of how to solve this issue.
Others just want to point and yell......shame! That is no solution.
Seriously though, the evidence shows there are way more factors at play for the majority of obese people than some would imply. It is not as simple as saying someone is weak willed and no self control.
If you haven't watched that HBO doc that eddiec posted earlier in this thread, I would suggest you should. It makes the argument clear.....in a way I never could.
Lack of access to healthy (fresh) food and inactivity (no park space) leads to obesity.
There are some cases (as I said earlier) where obesity was set from birth through conditions afforded to children by their parents. The video speaks to the inherent problems associated with living in the inner city and for these people too, I can empathize with them.
There are many other cases though, which I feel share the burden of responsibility. I visit two places in the USA with some frequency: there are many supermarkets in Spokane, however I see many obese people there as well. In Las Vegas (I go to a conference there every year), I see countless obese people that afforded a trip to Las Vegas wearing their finest (big) clothes. I'm not completely familiar with these people's backgrounds, but given my assumptions... I'd say their personal situation isn't that of someone living in the Bronx.
In Canada, I see obesity for no good reason as well- people with good jobs, living in good communities (such as mine), and bursting at the waist. No... good... reason.
So, if we are we talking of an inner city epidemic of obesity given the lack of access to fresh food and park space... I get it.
If we are talking about poor, middle class fat people that have no will control and a tendency to be lazy- refraining from exercise or making an effort to prepare their food- that see a McDonalds advertisement and race out for a McRib ... then I don't get it.
Then you get it. Mostly. Lol
Thank gawd!
For a bit there... I was thinking, "I'm not getting it!"
In the Cleveland area there is a growing movement to bring community gardens into neighborhoods that typically don't have access to fresh fruits and vegetables or grocery stores. Often volunteers will offer free cooking classes and recipes to the Community Garden participants. One example:
Green Corps seeks new members to join community garden at Buckeye Learning Farm Do you want to grow fresh flowers, fruits and vegetables for you and your family? Do you want to meet some of your neighbors, learn new gardening skills and be part of a fun and exciting gardening community? Then come garden with us!
Cleveland Botanical Garden's Green Corps is proud to announce the expansion of the Buckeye-Woodland Community Garden at its Buckeye Learning Farm, located at 11305 Woodland Ave, between Woodland and Mt. Carmel Road, in Cleveland.
The community garden offers 24 garden beds, each measuring 4 by 8 feet, FREE OF CHARGE for use by community members in the Buckeye-Woodland neighborhood.
Benefits of community garden membership include:
Grow your own food and flowers for free! Use of community garden tools and supplies provided by Green Corps Free access to water for your garden plot A limited number of seedlings will be available for planting Use of community garden compost bins and finished compost Access to Green Corps’ student and staff gardening expertise and workshops Participation in an active gardening community and gardening events, including a summer potluck, harvest party and more! Space is limited, so please register today.
For more information, contact the Buckeye-Woodland Site Manager at 216.630.3091.
Let us not forget that there are a whole lot of overweight people who AREN'T poor or undereducated or lazy. They just really really like cake and fried chicken. Not to mention all the beer fans. I know plenty of people around here enjoy their beer! That shit fattening and bad for your liver, but I don't see any threads about how lazy beer drinkers are.
And of course, as already mentioned, portion control is a big issue in North America, for everyone, not just poor people. Oversized portions are pretty much the norm now.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Let us not forget that there are a whole lot of overweight people who AREN'T poor or undereducated or lazy. They just really really like cake and fried chicken. Not to mention all the beer fans. I know plenty of people around here enjoy their beer! That shit fattening and bad for your liver, but I don't see any threads about how lazy beer drinkers are.
And of course, as already mentioned, portion control is a big issue in North America, for everyone, not just poor people. Oversized portions are pretty much the norm now.
of course there are, but the article title is "...why SOME people become obese.."
we all know that those of us who are affluent enough to have the proper education, access to good food and exercise, etc, that it's our own fat fault.
and as to your comment about portion control.......that cannot be understated. a buddy of mine lost a bunch of fat by doing nothing other than changing the size of his plate. seriously. his diet stayed the same. he just all his meals on a lunch plate. he had a small bowl of doritos watching tv instead of the bag. simple in theory, but difficult to some of us, things like that.
and as to your comment about portion control.......that cannot be understated. a buddy of mine lost a bunch of fat by doing nothing other than changing the size of his plate. seriously. his diet stayed the same. he just all his meals on a lunch plate. he had a small bowl of doritos watching tv instead of the bag. simple in theory, but difficult to some of us, things like that.
mmmm. Doritos.
Good luck with having the Halloween sized bag portion when a big Costco sized bag is at your disposal.
and as to your comment about portion control.......that cannot be understated. a buddy of mine lost a bunch of fat by doing nothing other than changing the size of his plate. seriously. his diet stayed the same. he just all his meals on a lunch plate. he had a small bowl of doritos watching tv instead of the bag. simple in theory, but difficult to some of us, things like that.
mmmm. Doritos.
Good luck with having the Halloween sized bag portion when a big Costco sized bag is at your disposal.
Without question my weakness: chips.
mine as well. add dip to that equation......roll me to bed.
Comments
Pj has influenced lots of people to react differently than they would without . This board is great example.
And to callen - to anyone else disagreeing, for that matter - no worries, this isn't being taken personally by me, but I am scratching my head at some of the assumptions made, not to mention the tone.
Gambs because We live this lifestyle I know the commitment it takes.And I want everyone to feel healthy and happy.It has far reaching ramifications from health care to self image.To setting a good example for our love ones.But it still remains a constant that each person must find the strength to make these changes themselves.
And like last 12 piggy backed off my post earlier.Its fact If you smoke you are making a poor health choice.No judging,just fact.
In certain cases- such as the 5 year old I referenced earlier- people haven't had much of a chance from the start: they were obese before they could even make decisions for themselves. Shitty deal for sure.
Obese people are not powerless and of course battling obesity is hard... but not everything in life is easy. The fact that fighting obesity is difficult doesn't excuse anyone from not trying to manage their personal health.
People with all kinds of illnesses ignore risk factors and medical advice. Do we excuse a smoker for ending up with lung cancer? For that matter, do we excuse the gambler from losing their life savings? Do we excuse a womanizer for contracting HIV?
All the above are unfortunate, but ultimately... as much as some so desperately want to divorce the individual from their actions... the responsibility lies with the individual. The womanizer may have been influenced to pursue women through television shows and magazines... but Two and 1/2 Men and Cosmopolitan are not responsible for his decisions just like McDonald's ads with Michael Jordan are not responsible for a fat guy buying a Big Mac for the seventh day in a row.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
Buy a bag of apples....problem solved! Lol
www.headstonesband.com
People are talking as if obese people simply had no other choice but to be obese. While I can admit that in some cases, this is true... in many... it's not.
This thread is classic from my perspective though. If people aren't trying to justify ISIS and their actions by blaming their homosexual tower launches, beheadings, burnings, and other acts of aggression on the infidels... or criminals for engaging in criminal behaviour... they are now trying to deflect responsibility for obese people's lifestyles.
Some of us are looking at this from a perspective of how to solve this issue.
Others just want to point and yell......shame! That is no solution.
Seriously though, the evidence shows there are way more factors at play for the majority of obese people than some would imply. It is not as simple as saying someone is weak willed and no self control.
If you haven't watched that HBO doc that eddiec posted earlier in this thread, I would suggest you should. It makes the argument clear.....in a way I never could.
Many facets to this, and yes - laziness is one of them. ONE of them. Many have mentioned other reasons. And really, does it have to be noted that using the word "lazy" isn't intended with the accompaniment of superiority or a view blinded by income or neighborhood or genes or anything else, but a sense of basic knowledge that most adults should be able to get hold of
Unless I'm delusional, I don't think anyone here has claimed to be perfect or above any kind of reproach. One of the things I like about this place and at the same time, I can't help but sometimes think "the fuck" in how differently we see things. Actually, not necessarily things/issues, but each other.
By the way, Thirty, appreciate your post toward the top of this page.
There are some cases (as I said earlier) where obesity was set from birth through conditions afforded to children by their parents. The video speaks to the inherent problems associated with living in the inner city and for these people too, I can empathize with them.
There are many other cases though, which I feel share the burden of responsibility. I visit two places in the USA with some frequency: there are many supermarkets in Spokane, however I see many obese people there as well. In Las Vegas (I go to a conference there every year), I see countless obese people that afforded a trip to Las Vegas wearing their finest (big) clothes. I'm not completely familiar with these people's backgrounds, but given my assumptions... I'd say their personal situation isn't that of someone living in the Bronx.
In Canada, I see obesity for no good reason as well- people with good jobs, living in good communities (such as mine), and bursting at the waist. No... good... reason.
So, if we are we talking of an inner city epidemic of obesity given the lack of access to fresh food and park space... I get it.
If we are talking about poor, middle class fat people that have no will control and a tendency to be lazy- refraining from exercise or making an effort to prepare their food- that see a McDonalds advertisement and race out for a McRib ... then I don't get it.
www.headstonesband.com
For a bit there... I was thinking, "I'm not getting it!"
www.headstonesband.com
One example:
http://www.cbgarden.org/lets-learn/green-corps/community-garden-at-buckeye-learning-farm.aspx
Green Corps seeks new members to join community garden at Buckeye Learning Farm
Do you want to grow fresh flowers, fruits and vegetables for you and your family? Do you want to meet some of your neighbors, learn new gardening skills and be part of a fun and exciting gardening community? Then come garden with us!
Cleveland Botanical Garden's Green Corps is proud to announce the expansion of the Buckeye-Woodland Community Garden at its Buckeye Learning Farm, located at 11305 Woodland Ave, between Woodland and Mt. Carmel Road, in Cleveland.
The community garden offers 24 garden beds, each measuring 4 by 8 feet, FREE OF CHARGE for use by community members in the Buckeye-Woodland neighborhood.
Benefits of community garden membership include:
Grow your own food and flowers for free!
Use of community garden tools and supplies provided by Green Corps
Free access to water for your garden plot
A limited number of seedlings will be available for planting
Use of community garden compost bins and finished compost
Access to Green Corps’ student and staff gardening expertise and workshops
Participation in an active gardening community and gardening events, including a summer potluck, harvest party and more!
Space is limited, so please register today.
For more information, contact the Buckeye-Woodland Site Manager at 216.630.3091.
www.headstonesband.com
And glad you went back to HFD.
www.headstonesband.com
And of course, as already mentioned, portion control is a big issue in North America, for everyone, not just poor people. Oversized portions are pretty much the norm now.
we all know that those of us who are affluent enough to have the proper education, access to good food and exercise, etc, that it's our own fat fault.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
Good luck with having the Halloween sized bag portion when a big Costco sized bag is at your disposal.
Without question my weakness: chips.
www.headstonesband.com