I feel like that link that I posted is being ignored here. It references well researched data, not beliefs.
This fits right in with the War On Science thread.
You can believe these people are lazy.....but the evidence says otherwise.
I'm not calling them lazy, but it looks like another opportunity for someone to blame their poor eating habits on something or someone else. At some point, personal accountability has to be factored in.
To a degree, but in the same way your parents taught you how to make healthy choices and now do that yourself, these people are also following what they were taught.
Yea, but there comes a point in everyone's life where you question what you were taught growing up. Wheather it's politics, religion, ethics, and even eating habits. It come down to choice.
I'd be a hypocritical Christian today if I didn't question what I was taught growing up.
I get what you are saying. But learning to make proper choices as an adult and taking the time to prepare is a much more difficult task than I think people are estimating.
I think its less laziness and more not understanding and/or possibly caring about the ramifications down the road.
removing Home Economics as a required type class in school doesn't help either.
Hot topic! Interesting discussion too.
mickey, I took Home Ec in junior high - cooking, sewing - in addition to several shop classes. Much fun as it was, and I did learn something in each setting / experience, my parents played such a greater role in those realms, by their examples.
Food - prepared, made-with-love food - was such a part of family and growing up. The whole ritual of shopping for good deals, the occasional splurge coupled with the innovation of using what's on hand...then setting the table, the scents.
It was so warm and brought us together, and I think that has nothing to do with "class" or level of income.
I feel like that link that I posted is being ignored here. It references well researched data, not beliefs.
This fits right in with the War On Science thread.
You can believe these people are lazy.....but the evidence says otherwise.
I'm not calling them lazy, but it looks like another opportunity for someone to blame their poor eating habits on something or someone else. At some point, personal accountability has to be factored in.
To a degree, but in the same way your parents taught you how to make healthy choices and now do that yourself, these people are also following what they were taught.
Yea, but there comes a point in everyone's life where you question what you were taught growing up. Wheather it's politics, religion, ethics, and even eating habits. It come down to choice.
I'd be a hypocritical Christian today if I didn't question what I was taught growing up.
I think its less laziness and more not understanding and/or possibly caring about the ramifications down the road.
How is it possible to not understand that eating fast food/junk food/convenience food is detrimental? How is it possible to not comprehend that the mentality of laziness that fast food instills, in every way, filling our landfills, filling our arteries, filling our stomachs with nothing but empty calories is a horrible way to live?
But if you are not taught this, you know no better. So sad.
I just got back from food shopping.I had read this thread prior to going.While at the store I kinda observed what the folks with kids were doing.In the middle rows(all the crap)The kids were hyper with joy about this sugar food or that colorful package of nutrition less garbage.The parents were obliging the requests and the carts were filling with bad diet choices.When they get to the veggies the kids are like zombies.No energy could care less about that section of the store. So it would seem that the pre programming the advertisers are doing,coupled with parents just trying to appease the little ones create this pattern.If the parents made the selection of fruits and veggies more interactive with the kids,let them pick the apples or peppers and bag them keep them involved in good choices would that help?Start at an early age and teach proper nutrition using sweets and such as a treat not a daily diet item.Maybe that could be a start.
Potatoes, carrots, cabbage and the like are not super expensive and widely available anywhere. There are areas where people have community gardens, so even when their backyard does not allow growing your own food, you can go to places like that and get going. I had plant pots on my balcony in Germany, so I always had fresh herbs available. Seeds are cheap too. I think a lot of people just simply do not know what is out there and how to use it for yourself. And the obesity problemis not just happening in America, it is the same in Germany toom maybe still not as bad as here, but it is there. Fuck the corporations and their deadly potions.
Post edited by Leezestarr313 on
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
I feel like that link that I posted is being ignored here. It references well researched data, not beliefs.
This fits right in with the War On Science thread.
You can believe these people are lazy.....but the evidence says otherwise.
There are some points made in that article, dignin, that seem quite valid and like I said, calling people lazy is not at all helpful. But I still believe much of the problem is lack of education. Years ago, I lived in western New York state in a poor neighborhood of a depressed town for a few years and lived on very low income. Obesity was not a problem for me. The problem, if any, was that I was too thin. I had a neighbor who was about my age (a really great guy, by the way) and just as poor as me and he was obese. I don't disregard that poor people have a more difficult time of staying healthy-- not at all!-- but I do think much of the time the problem has more to do with poor education and poor choices.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Sue made a great point at the end of her article. Government and big biz are one in the same as far as I'm concerned. People are being made addicted to the crap food being processed and poisoned by the additive experiments in the food. Its done deliberately and for profit. The whole culture of America has gone supersized in every way, not just food. My wife and I have two children and we almost never eat at restaurants for two reasons; the expense and the ingredients. First off, we don't have money to spare, but when it come to the food we eat, we spare no expense. It's far cheaper to prepare and eat an ORGANIC diet than it is to buy fast food, in Toronto anyway. Lets say the four of us ate at Mc Collen Blows for ten bucks each for one meal. that $40 will feed us all day and thats with our expensive organic foods. I think the two main reasons for America's obesity is education and distraction. American IQ's have been on a steady decline, along with funding for education. Dumb people don't ask a lot of hard questions or research the nature of their environment much. We are so completely distracted by spectacle and entertainment that people would much rather watch tv or surf the net and disregard the chores of the kitchen. So, we find the time to surf by tossing a frozen pizza in the oven or grabbing a bucket of buzzard.....a third reason is the bucket of buzzard, lol.
I remember when, yeah. I swore I knew everything, oh yeah.
I feel like that link that I posted is being ignored here. It references well researched data, not beliefs.
This fits right in with the War On Science thread.
You can believe these people are lazy.....but the evidence says otherwise.
There are some points made in that article, dignin, that seem quite valid and like I said, calling people lazy is not at all helpful. But I still believe much of the problem is lack of education. Years ago, I lived in western New York state in a poor neighborhood of a depressed town for a few years and lived on very low income. Obesity was not a problem for me. The problem, if any, was that I was too thin. I had a neighbor who was about my age (a really great guy, by the way) and just as poor as me and he was obese. I don't disregard that poor people have a more difficult time of staying healthy-- not at all!-- but I do think much of the time the problem has more to do with poor education and poor choices.
Exactly Brian, poor education leads to poor choices.
We are so completely distracted by spectacle and entertainment that people would much rather watch tv or surf the net and disregard the chores of the kitchen. So, we find the time to surf by tossing a frozen pizza in the oven or grabbing a bucket of buzzard.....a third reason is the bucket of buzzard, lol.
Not to cherry-pick, but I'd consider this more of a choice vs lack of education or common sense.
We are so completely distracted by spectacle and entertainment that people would much rather watch tv or surf the net and disregard the chores of the kitchen. So, we find the time to surf by tossing a frozen pizza in the oven or grabbing a bucket of buzzard.....a third reason is the bucket of buzzard, lol.
Not to cherry-pick, but I'd consider this more of a choice vs lack of education or common sense.
I don't go along with the lack of education theory either. Pretty sure each and every one of us who attended school, was taught nutrition and the basic food groups. We are all taught what is essential food and what is junk food. No doubt in my mind that people my age were ABSOLUTELY taught nutrition. We were taught the basic food groups in every health class we had, from 1st grade through 8th grade. We know better, but we choose to eat what is bad for us.
Now I do know that people believe that certain foods are healthy for them, when indeed they are poor choices. Just because an egg roll has cabbage in it, surely doesn't mean it is healthy. Just because its chicken, doesn't mean KFC is good for you.
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
We are so completely distracted by spectacle and entertainment that people would much rather watch tv or surf the net and disregard the chores of the kitchen. So, we find the time to surf by tossing a frozen pizza in the oven or grabbing a bucket of buzzard.....a third reason is the bucket of buzzard, lol.
Not to cherry-pick, but I'd consider this more of a choice vs lack of education or common sense.
I don't go along with the lack of education theory either. Pretty sure each and every one of us who attended school, was taught nutrition and the basic food groups. We are all taught what is essential food and what is junk food. No doubt in my mind that people my age were ABSOLUTELY taught nutrition. We were taught the basic food groups in every health class we had, from 1st grade through 8th grade. We know better, but we choose to eat what is bad for us.
Now I do know that people believe that certain foods are healthy for them, when indeed they are poor choices. Just because an egg roll has cabbage in it, surely doesn't mean it is healthy. Just because its chicken, doesn't mean KFC is good for you.
That's for sure.
As far as education goes, yeah you may be right. Maybe more accurate than lack of education is lack of having a good example set. One of the young kids in my extended family has had terrible digestive problems much of her nine years because her mom feeds her crap and her mom before her fed her crap. When the kid is over here, we fix healthy meals but we can't be there all the time and it's really frustrating to not be able to get the mom to change her ways.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Everytime I go through the check out counter at the grocery store with enough fruit for six big bowls at breakfast and enough semi healthy crud for five lunches for the week and I'm getting change back from forty, I would say that you can eat healthy and cheap. Even if the Doritos are on sale for two huge bags for five bucks. Some days that is three cantalopes. Not hard to see what is healthy and what isn't.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
We are so completely distracted by spectacle and entertainment that people would much rather watch tv or surf the net and disregard the chores of the kitchen. So, we find the time to surf by tossing a frozen pizza in the oven or grabbing a bucket of buzzard.....a third reason is the bucket of buzzard, lol.
Not to cherry-pick, but I'd consider this more of a choice vs lack of education or common sense.
I don't go along with the lack of education theory either. Pretty sure each and every one of us who attended school, was taught nutrition and the basic food groups. We are all taught what is essential food and what is junk food. No doubt in my mind that people my age were ABSOLUTELY taught nutrition. We were taught the basic food groups in every health class we had, from 1st grade through 8th grade. We know better, but we choose to eat what is bad for us.
Now I do know that people believe that certain foods are healthy for them, when indeed they are poor choices. Just because an egg roll has cabbage in it, surely doesn't mean it is healthy. Just because its chicken, doesn't mean KFC is good for you.
That's for sure.
As far as education goes, yeah you may be right. Maybe more accurate than lack of education is lack of having a good example set. One of the young kids in my extended family has had terrible digestive problems much of her nine years because her mom feeds her crap and her mom before her fed her crap. When the kid is over here, we fix healthy meals but we can't be there all the time and it's really frustrating to not be able to get the mom to change her ways.
In most cases there are probably no examples set. 'My Baby's momma, my baby's daddy' have become common terms in the low income crime ridden neighborhoods we are talking about. You're looking at a situation where a 20 year girl has 2-3 kids by 2-3 different fathers and hands over her kids at night to her mother so she can go hang out at the club. Do you think a 12 year old kid who barely sees his mother and who has a father in prison cares about what food they eat? A lot of these kids learn about food from the television which we know mainly promotes junk like McDonalds. Look at the amount of Americans who are obese or just really, really huge and come from stable, well educated families. If obesity due to poor food choices is a problem in middle class families how do low income families stand a chance in America?
Education smeducation. You know that eating a salad is better for you than shoveling deep fried twinkies down your gullet. You don't need to be taught that.
Sorry for the long, fuzzy post. It is a passionate topic to me lol And yes, I agree with everything you said, Speedy.
I thought of you when I was reading this article. I truly did. Because coming from Germany you have to be APPALLED at the obesity in America. Plus I know how much you love your garden and your fresh veggies. I know how much you love to do the home cooking.
One can eat healthy in America, at a low budget. But one has to put in an honest effort.
Maybe 20 years ago. Last trip lots of fat people there as well. Not close to US but increasing.
Education smeducation. You know that eating a salad is better for you than shoveling deep fried twinkies down your gullet. You don't need to be taught that.
Look how long it took for educated people to figure out that McDonald's was bad for you. And guess what, educated people still eat there.
Im sorry, but I still say you can feed a family of 4, healthy meals, for less money than junk food. Ive read what you posted, and I disagree on a few points. Maybe I am wrong calling people lazy. Lower income people have less parks, and recreational facilities? Sorry, but walking is free. Walking is a great exercise. I live in a big city, I travel all throughout this city for work. There are grocery stores at every other corner. I find it hard to believe that anywhere in this city, people cant find a store, close to home, that sells healthier food than potato chips, soda pop, and cheeseburgers. But yeah, that article makes some good points. But I have to say, I don't agree with them all.
A big conversation in winnipeg right now is that in our poorest area, dowtown, there are ZERO grocery stores that stock fresh foods of any kind. The local government is trying to bring people downtown to live and shop instead of urban sprawl issues, but no one is going to buy a $300,000 condo and not be able to get groceries.
But its also a conversation as to why; some blame it on the demand. There USED to be grocery stores downtown, but they all died out for lack of business.
And walking around dowtown is pretty widely considered unsafe, whether that perception is correct or not is not the issue. But it is true that the poor poeople that live there have nearly no access to healthy food. If they did, would they use it? Who knows.
I shop at a grocery store 2 miles from the house. You have both middle class and lower income people shopping there. There are a great deal of people who shop using their "Link Card", used to be food stamps, but now its a government issued credit card. I see PLENTY of people, whose carts are overflowing with nothing but junk food, paying for their groceries with their "link card." The produce is available, the lean meats are available, they make the choice to fill their cart with frozen pizzas and potato chips.
Lean meat is $8 a pound. Broccoli, Brussels sprouts tomatoes bell peppers mushrooms a lot of fruit good bread is very expensive. If I buy healthy for weak it costs much more than if I buy hot dogs and cheap buns. So agree you can eat healthy on budget , it is harder. Are people lazy Absolutely. But so are the Haves. Pre- packaged salad, pre cut pineapple pre cut carrots FUCKING SWIFFERS. So The haves are just as lazy but can eat healthy as they can afford it. So most Americans are lazy not just the poor or all "Those" people buying food on their Entitlement cards.
Though we shouldn't give pass, Mc. Donald's spends millions understanding the human brain and using its knowledge to get the poor to eat their pink slime.
Im sorry, but I still say you can feed a family of 4, healthy meals, for less money than junk food. Ive read what you posted, and I disagree on a few points. Maybe I am wrong calling people lazy. Lower income people have less parks, and recreational facilities? Sorry, but walking is free. Walking is a great exercise. I live in a big city, I travel all throughout this city for work. There are grocery stores at every other corner. I find it hard to believe that anywhere in this city, people cant find a store, close to home, that sells healthier food than potato chips, soda pop, and cheeseburgers. But yeah, that article makes some good points. But I have to say, I don't agree with them all.
A big conversation in winnipeg right now is that in our poorest area, dowtown, there are ZERO grocery stores that stock fresh foods of any kind. The local government is trying to bring people downtown to live and shop instead of urban sprawl issues, but no one is going to buy a $300,000 condo and not be able to get groceries.
But its also a conversation as to why; some blame it on the demand. There USED to be grocery stores downtown, but they all died out for lack of business.
And walking around dowtown is pretty widely considered unsafe, whether that perception is correct or not is not the issue. But it is true that the poor poeople that live there have nearly no access to healthy food. If they did, would they use it? Who knows.
I shop at a grocery store 2 miles from the house. You have both middle class and lower income people shopping there. There are a great deal of people who shop using their "Link Card", used to be food stamps, but now its a government issued credit card. I see PLENTY of people, whose carts are overflowing with nothing but junk food, paying for their groceries with their "link card." The produce is available, the lean meats are available, they make the choice to fill their cart with frozen pizzas and potato chips.
Lean meat is $8 a pound. Broccoli, Brussels sprouts tomatoes bell peppers mushrooms a lot of fruit good bread is very expensive. If I buy healthy for weak it costs much more than if I buy hot dogs and cheap buns. So agree you can eat healthy on budget , it is harder. Are people lazy Absolutely. But so are the Haves. Pre- packaged salad, pre cut pineapple pre cut carrots FUCKING SWIFFERS. So The haves are just as lazy but can eat healthy as they can afford it. So most Americans are lazy not just the poor or all "Those" people buying food on their Entitlement cards.
Yeah, but we can argue the cost of meat and we can argue the cost of veggies. Its all about choices.
Whole beef tenderloin $7.99 a lb Boneless pork roast $1.79 a lb
Brussel Sprouts expensive Romaine lettuce $0.69 a lb. Tomatoes $0.99 a lb.
Bell Peppers expensive Green Beans $0.59 a lb.
8lb bag of potatoes $0.99 An order of French Fries? $1.50, and god knows how much it will cost you when you are in the hospital with clogged arteries.
And a bag of frozen mixed vegetables 12oz that serves 3 is $0.98 a bag.
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Education smeducation. You know that eating a salad is better for you than shoveling deep fried twinkies down your gullet. You don't need to be taught that.
It helps if you think of education in broader terms than what they teach about nutrition in school. Daily feedings of junkfood from toddlerhood up IS education, and far more of it than the one day a year where they talk about the food "groups" or "pyramid" (which has nothing to do with,healthy eating and everything to do with industry promotion)
Fatty, sugary foods are literally addictive and the obese kids now are the 2nd generation raised on addictive food. The children of the 50's and 60's started us down this path, and we have lost all control.
I'm not sure if it's the lack of education, but the lack of knowing / learning from family cooking basics. Is that part of education? Maybe, maybe home ec. and the dismissal of that… But it's very easy to make beans, rice, potatoes, and veggies. The healthy diet needs to be learned as a kid or self-taught when older. Otherwise, we all go the convenience route, because we don't know any better. The first thing I was taught to cook when I was a kid (besides toast) was mac & cheese. Can't get any worse than the processed cheese powder of Kraft mac & cheese. But my mom also made me learn the simple basics. That's what's missing.
I also think it's this: I meet folks all the time that are proud to say that they don't cook. These people happen to be parents and they're bragging that they don't cook? I look at them and say "well, does your spouse cook?" And they either say he/she has to, or no. They dine out a lot / order in. That's how obesity happens as well. No interest or time or whatever reason. But when you are a parent, you should be responsible for cooking your kids meals, dammit!
I'm not sure if it's the lack of education, but the lack of knowing / learning from family cooking basics. Is that part of education? Maybe, maybe home ec. and the dismissal of that… But it's very easy to make beans, rice, potatoes, and veggies. The healthy diet needs to be learned as a kid or self-taught when older. Otherwise, we all go the convenience route, because we don't know any better. The first thing I was taught to cook when I was a kid (besides toast) was mac & cheese. Can't get any worse than the processed cheese powder of Kraft mac & cheese. But my mom also made me learn the simple basics. That's what's missing.
I also think it's this: I meet folks all the time that are proud to say that they don't cook. These people happen to be parents and they're bragging that they don't cook? I look at them and say "well, does your spouse cook?" And they either say he/she has to, or no. They dine out a lot / order in. That's how obesity happens as well. No interest or time or whatever reason. But when you are a parent, you should be responsible for cooking your kids meals, dammit!
I have always found it weird when someone tells me "I don't cook." Actually its one of the weirdest things any human being, over the age of 18, can say to me. WTF do you mean you don't cook? You are a Princess? You are a King? You have servants prepare your meals? Its just so fucking batshit weird, in my eyes, when someone tells me "I don't cook."
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Alcoholics often need to hit rock bottom before they seek help. It's similar to food. People eat crap for a variety of reasons- taste, price, convenience, laziness, the list could go on. It's usually when they receive a health scare that they decide to make a change and by then it's usually too late.
I'm not sure if it's the lack of education, but the lack of knowing / learning from family cooking basics. Is that part of education? Maybe, maybe home ec. and the dismissal of that… But it's very easy to make beans, rice, potatoes, and veggies. The healthy diet needs to be learned as a kid or self-taught when older. Otherwise, we all go the convenience route, because we don't know any better. The first thing I was taught to cook when I was a kid (besides toast) was mac & cheese. Can't get any worse than the processed cheese powder of Kraft mac & cheese. But my mom also made me learn the simple basics. That's what's missing.
I also think it's this: I meet folks all the time that are proud to say that they don't cook. These people happen to be parents and they're bragging that they don't cook? I look at them and say "well, does your spouse cook?" And they either say he/she has to, or no. They dine out a lot / order in. That's how obesity happens as well. No interest or time or whatever reason. But when you are a parent, you should be responsible for cooking your kids meals, dammit!
I have always found it weird when someone tells me "I don't cook." Actually its one of the weirdest things any human being, over the age of 18, can say to me. WTF do you mean you don't cook? You are a Princess? You are a King? You have servants prepare your meals? Its just so fucking batshit weird, in my eyes, when someone tells me "I don't cook."
Totally agree! Batshit crazy. Last week it snowed and I heard a grown ass lady say, "Someone will have to come get me, I don't drive in bad weather" I was like, "Are you a child? Are you a queen? Are you that fucking spoiled? How can you call yourself an adult, a woman? Not cooking is even worse!
Comments
I think its less laziness and more not understanding and/or possibly caring about the ramifications down the road.
www.headstonesband.com
mickey, I took Home Ec in junior high - cooking, sewing - in addition to several shop classes. Much fun as it was, and I did learn something in each setting / experience, my parents played such a greater role in those realms, by their examples.
Food - prepared, made-with-love food - was such a part of family and growing up. The whole ritual of shopping for good deals, the occasional splurge coupled with the innovation of using what's on hand...then setting the table, the scents.
It was so warm and brought us together, and I think that has nothing to do with "class" or level of income.
But if you are not taught this, you know no better. So sad.
The evidence says that class and level of income has a lot do do with it
Many people use and re-use foods such as potatoes, chicken, bones, stocks. Some of it just takes some trade-off with convenience.
So it would seem that the pre programming the advertisers are doing,coupled with parents just trying to appease the little ones create this pattern.If the parents made the selection of fruits and veggies more interactive with the kids,let them pick the apples or peppers and bag them keep them involved in good choices would that help?Start at an early age and teach proper nutrition using sweets and such as a treat not a daily diet item.Maybe that could be a start.
And the obesity problemis not just happening in America, it is the same in Germany toom maybe still not as bad as here, but it is there. Fuck the corporations and their deadly potions.
Now I do know that people believe that certain foods are healthy for them, when indeed they are poor choices. Just because an egg roll has cabbage in it, surely doesn't mean it is healthy. Just because its chicken, doesn't mean KFC is good for you.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
As far as education goes, yeah you may be right. Maybe more accurate than lack of education is lack of having a good example set. One of the young kids in my extended family has had terrible digestive problems much of her nine years because her mom feeds her crap and her mom before her fed her crap. When the kid is over here, we fix healthy meals but we can't be there all the time and it's really frustrating to not be able to get the mom to change her ways.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
"Da da da dad ah I'm loving it"
Whole beef tenderloin $7.99 a lb
Boneless pork roast $1.79 a lb
Brussel Sprouts expensive
Romaine lettuce $0.69 a lb.
Tomatoes $0.99 a lb.
Bell Peppers expensive
Green Beans $0.59 a lb.
8lb bag of potatoes $0.99
An order of French Fries? $1.50, and god knows how much it will cost you when you are in the hospital with clogged arteries.
And a bag of frozen mixed vegetables 12oz that serves 3 is $0.98 a bag.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Fatty, sugary foods are literally addictive and the obese kids now are the 2nd generation raised on addictive food. The children of the 50's and 60's started us down this path, and we have lost all control.
Better info at the schools could be something to begin with. Maybe more active classes on nutrition and yes, school gardens!
I also think it's this: I meet folks all the time that are proud to say that they don't cook. These people happen to be parents and they're bragging that they don't cook? I look at them and say "well, does your spouse cook?" And they either say he/she has to, or no. They dine out a lot / order in. That's how obesity happens as well. No interest or time or whatever reason. But when you are a parent, you should be responsible for cooking your kids meals, dammit!
Of course it took 30 for America to realize that smoking is bad for you and there are plenty of people still smoking.
http://m.mic.com/articles/88015/what-happens-to-your-brain-on-sugar-explained-by-science
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Last week it snowed and I heard a grown ass lady say, "Someone will have to come get me, I don't drive in bad weather"
I was like, "Are you a child? Are you a queen? Are you that fucking spoiled? How can you call yourself an adult, a woman?
Not cooking is even worse!