9-Year-Old Girl Accidentally Kills Shooting Range Instructor

hedonist

chadwick, that's like a fantasy life (retirement?) for us...plus lots of cats and dogs. Live off the land, harness solar energy, just be self-reliant, and...just be.

It's kind of like the old tribes...time spent harvesting and reaping the necessities of life. Simple shit. Happy with simple shit. No luxuries, or maybe meeting those needs was a luxury in itself?

There was a series a few years ago on PBS called Frontier House. Families essentially living as those did in the late 1800s. Absolutely fascinating how people not only sustained themselves but also how bartering came into play.

(and yes, we should all hold ourselves accountable)

josevolution

No laws will be changed i say let the gun nuts keep on doing shit like this , if your an asinine parent and wish to put your kids in harms way go ahead , you would think a simple age restriction law on how old a child must be before being allowed to go into shooting ranges could be implemented but not in the USA ....And yes the kid was put in harms way and now that harm will go on for ever for her ........

PJ_Soul

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Oh sure, I didn't mean folks in cattle country. Of course there are legit reasons for some Canadians (and Americans) to have guns, and I know there are plenty of hunters in Canada too (I've never known any though). Just talking about where I'm from (Vancouver). Hardly anyone in these parts (besides gang members) can even relate to gun ownership - certainly not in urban areas. But in the US it seems like having a gun in the house is the rule rather than exception, and that just seems strange to me!

Not everyone here owns a gun or even likes them. Please do not generalize the entire population due to what the media and the NRA tells you.

I didn't mean literally. I assumed everyone would understand that.

PJ_Soul

EdsonNascimento said:

This has more to do with parental stupidity than gun laws. I am by no means a gun lobby advocate, but this isn't a great example for the anti's. It's pure adult stupidity. When can we outlaw that? That's a far bigger scourge on our society bc it leads to stuff like this.

Totally agree. Just because this happened it doesn't mean that the instructor was terrible. It means the instructor made a mistake. Even the best instructors could make a mistake. It only takes an instant. The parents very deliberately put their child in danger in the name of fun. However, that it's legal for a 9 year old to just go to a gun range and fire an uzi is ludicrous as well.

backseatLover12

I heard that the parents were actually taking pictures of the girl, while learning to shoot...

brianlux

EdsonNascimento said:

This has more to do with parental stupidity than gun laws. I am by no means a gun lobby advocate, but this isn't a great example for the anti's. It's pure adult stupidity. When can we outlaw that? That's a far bigger scourge on our society bc it leads to stuff like this.

Edson, I'm tempted to say, "Yes, we should outlaw stupidity" but that would be rather, umm, stupid! What we could do, however, is discourage stupidity starting with improving at least half of the articles, books, movies, television shows, video games and other media which are rife with stupidity.

chadwick

yes the instructor was terrible. who gives a child a semi automatic or automatic uzi (it doesn't matter which one, that's a stupid fucking choice in gun to have a child handle & fire off) full of rounds to be shown how to shoot targets? instructor is a title used lightly here. more like show off maybe or "hey i left my thinkingskills at home when i got out of bed" im sorry he is dead. i am sorry this little kid smoked his ass. it's all about being a terrible gun instructor with a child & a machine gun full of ammo

goingtoverona

i think it's "goofy" to not associate cars with your hypocrisy. to go from one extreme of every single life is so precious and beautiful to, oh well that sucks but we don't need to do whatever it takes, it's acceptable, just screams hypocrisy to me. it's a great way to point out that you anti gunners in fact don't give a flying fuck about human lives.....you just don't like guns. which is fine, it's just a little annoying to keep hearing why the reason you don't like guns is because human life is just so precious to you when it's obviously not.

with cars it's pretty straight forward what needs to be done. put up more lights, more warning signs, make cars safer, reduce speed limits make cars go slower. with guns, there is no clear forward path. you guys ban assault rifles and high cap mags and there's still violence. you make it so people can't defend themselves by carrying a pistol and there's still violence. you put up signs saying no guns and make it illegal to kill people and guess what there's still violence. most of you pretty much acknowledge that you can't do anything to stop the violence, so what's the best solution? get rid of guns. i'm down with getting rid of my guns, just want a little quid pro quo with regards to cars, knives, alcohol, and tobacco. it all kills, getting rid of that stuff would undoubtedly save lives. no more, my killers are your cool i'm keeping my killers but you get rid of your killers. no more of that please. if you anti gunners are down to give up your steak knives and cars to save lives, i'm down to give up my guns. until then, click click boom

mickeyrat

cars are a bullshit analogy. Sorry dude. Primarily in this thread related to this specific incident its been quite clearly stated by all that the parents were wrong in allowing this and the instructor not as diligent as he should have been in the first place.

You have been in my estimation fairly reasonable up to know in regards to a measure of responsibility and need for smart regulation. What happened?

maybe I am wrong here. I thought at a range , where i believe many classes are held as to gun safety etc, would be a place where STUPID FUCKING DECISIONS arent made.


So I ask you, what about this girl? What kind of help should she get? First by being born to what appears to be woefully in adequate parents, second for the aftermath of the actions of the "instructor"?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

goingtoverona said:

i think it's "goofy" to not associate cars with your hypocrisy. to go from one extreme of every single life is so precious and beautiful to, oh well that sucks but we don't need to do whatever it takes, it's acceptable, just screams hypocrisy to me. it's a great way to point out that you anti gunners in fact don't give a flying fuck about human lives.....you just don't like guns. which is fine, it's just a little annoying to keep hearing why the reason you don't like guns is because human life is just so precious to you when it's obviously not.

with cars it's pretty straight forward what needs to be done. put up more lights, more warning signs, make cars safer, reduce speed limits make cars go slower. with guns, there is no clear forward path. you guys ban assault rifles and high cap mags and there's still violence. you make it so people can't defend themselves by carrying a pistol and there's still violence. you put up signs saying no guns and make it illegal to kill people and guess what there's still violence. most of you pretty much acknowledge that you can't do anything to stop the violence, so what's the best solution? get rid of guns. i'm down with getting rid of my guns, just want a little quid pro quo with regards to cars, knives, alcohol, and tobacco. it all kills, getting rid of that stuff would undoubtedly save lives. no more, my killers are your cool i'm keeping my killers but you get rid of your killers. no more of that please. if you anti gunners are down to give up your steak knives and cars to save lives, i'm down to give up my guns. until then, click click boom

I'd echo what Mickeyrat said about you being one of the most reasoned voices for gun advocacy, however this post is out there.

* Cars kill... but they are made for transportation. A trade off we'll have to live with unless we all get horses and move to local economies.
* Steak knives kill... but they are made for cutting food. A trade off we'll have to live with unless we want to eat with our hands.
* Alcohol and tobacco might kill... and these should hold their own threads- the trade off might not be worth it and you have a reasonable argument here (but not a great one- don't get too excited).

* Guns kill... and they are made for killing. What's the trade off here? I get 'shooting shit' might be fun, but the downside to the 'fun' is pretty gross.

rgambs

unsung said:

Yes because without govt there would be poisonous food and water.

*edit rant out*

Not worth it. The hypocrisy is too powerful.

Clearly you know nothing of history! Ever heard of the Cuyahoga river? The Chicago Stockyards? Government is the only thing that stopped these poison fountains and hundreds of others. Get yourself out into the real world for cripes sake! Come to West Virginia with me, I'll take you to the base of a Mountain Top Removal site and scoop you a glass of water. Then we will see how quick you taste the real world. I am serious, I'll get you some coal runoff of you got the balls...

EdsonNascimento

callen said:

EdsonNascimento said:

This has more to do with parental stupidity than gun laws. I am by no means a gun lobby advocate, but this isn't a great example for the anti's. It's pure adult stupidity. When can we outlaw that? That's a far bigger scourge on our society bc it leads to stuff like this.

True but it is the gun culture and it's acceptance in the US that instilled the thought that it would be a great family outing to shoot guns for fun.

It's not the culture. It's her stupid parents and the stupid instructor. Whether we like guns or not is irrelevant to the stupidity that led to this incident.

blueandwhite

EdsonNascimento said:

callen said:

EdsonNascimento said:

This has more to do with parental stupidity than gun laws. I am by no means a gun lobby advocate, but this isn't a great example for the anti's. It's pure adult stupidity. When can we outlaw that? That's a far bigger scourge on our society bc it leads to stuff like this.

True but it is the gun culture and it's acceptance in the US that instilled the thought that it would be a great family outing to shoot guns for fun.

It's not the culture. It's her stupid parents and the stupid instructor. Whether we like guns or not is irrelevant to the stupidity that led to this incident.

Of course it's culture. In what other developed country could you even hope to put an uzi into the hands of a nine year old child? America is unique in this regard. Most countries legislate against such stupidity. Even America prohibits minors from drinking or driving a car because legislators recognize the inherent risks associated with allowing a child partaking in certain high-risck activities. Guns are different. Gun ownership is an inalienable right in the United States. This child had the right to use that uzi and I very much doubt that anybody will step in to prohibit this from happening again in the future no matter how ridiculous it may be.

Do you really think a similar accident is likely to happen in the UK, Japan, Australia or even Canada, your neighbours to the north? As far as I can tell, among developed nations only Americans seem to regard gun ownership as an absolute right rather than a privilege. How could this be anything but cultural?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

blueandwhite said:

EdsonNascimento said:

callen said:

EdsonNascimento said:

This has more to do with parental stupidity than gun laws. I am by no means a gun lobby advocate, but this isn't a great example for the anti's. It's pure adult stupidity. When can we outlaw that? That's a far bigger scourge on our society bc it leads to stuff like this.

True but it is the gun culture and it's acceptance in the US that instilled the thought that it would be a great family outing to shoot guns for fun.

It's not the culture. It's her stupid parents and the stupid instructor. Whether we like guns or not is irrelevant to the stupidity that led to this incident.

Of course it's culture. In what other developed country could you even hope to put an uzi into the hands of a nine year old child? America is unique in this regard. Most countries legislate against such stupidity. Even America prohibits minors from drinking or driving a car because legislators recognize the inherent risks associated with allowing a child partaking in certain high-risck activities. Guns are different. Gun ownership is an inalienable right in the United States. This child had the right to use that uzi and I very much doubt that anybody will step in to prohibit this from happening again in the future no matter how ridiculous it may be.

Do you really think a similar accident is likely to happen in the UK, Japan, Australia or even Canada, your neighbours to the north? As far as I can tell, among developed nations only Americans seem to regard gun ownership as an absolute right rather than a privilege. How could this be anything but cultural?

Silly that you would even have to write this. Don't get me wrong... it's entirely true. It's just silly that one would have to explain to someone how gun culture is at the root of this case.

EdsonNascimento

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

blueandwhite said:

EdsonNascimento said:

callen said:

EdsonNascimento said:

This has more to do with parental stupidity than gun laws. I am by no means a gun lobby advocate, but this isn't a great example for the anti's. It's pure adult stupidity. When can we outlaw that? That's a far bigger scourge on our society bc it leads to stuff like this.

True but it is the gun culture and it's acceptance in the US that instilled the thought that it would be a great family outing to shoot guns for fun.

It's not the culture. It's her stupid parents and the stupid instructor. Whether we like guns or not is irrelevant to the stupidity that led to this incident.

Of course it's culture. In what other developed country could you even hope to put an uzi into the hands of a nine year old child? America is unique in this regard. Most countries legislate against such stupidity. Even America prohibits minors from drinking or driving a car because legislators recognize the inherent risks associated with allowing a child partaking in certain high-risck activities. Guns are different. Gun ownership is an inalienable right in the United States. This child had the right to use that uzi and I very much doubt that anybody will step in to prohibit this from happening again in the future no matter how ridiculous it may be.

Do you really think a similar accident is likely to happen in the UK, Japan, Australia or even Canada, your neighbours to the north? As far as I can tell, among developed nations only Americans seem to regard gun ownership as an absolute right rather than a privilege. How could this be anything but cultural?

Silly that you would even have to write this. Don't get me wrong... it's entirely true. It's just silly that one would have to explain to someone how gun culture is at the root of this case.

Except you've both missed my point. And to answer the prior post - there's lots of places that not only allow, but promote use of guns by youth. But that's entirely beside the point I was making.

And not for a moment am I suggesting any of that is good or right. But again, that was beside the point. So, carry on with your misplaced smugness.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

EdsonNascimento said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

blueandwhite said:

EdsonNascimento said:

callen said:

EdsonNascimento said:

This has more to do with parental stupidity than gun laws. I am by no means a gun lobby advocate, but this isn't a great example for the anti's. It's pure adult stupidity. When can we outlaw that? That's a far bigger scourge on our society bc it leads to stuff like this.

True but it is the gun culture and it's acceptance in the US that instilled the thought that it would be a great family outing to shoot guns for fun.

It's not the culture. It's her stupid parents and the stupid instructor. Whether we like guns or not is irrelevant to the stupidity that led to this incident.

Of course it's culture. In what other developed country could you even hope to put an uzi into the hands of a nine year old child? America is unique in this regard. Most countries legislate against such stupidity. Even America prohibits minors from drinking or driving a car because legislators recognize the inherent risks associated with allowing a child partaking in certain high-risck activities. Guns are different. Gun ownership is an inalienable right in the United States. This child had the right to use that uzi and I very much doubt that anybody will step in to prohibit this from happening again in the future no matter how ridiculous it may be.

Do you really think a similar accident is likely to happen in the UK, Japan, Australia or even Canada, your neighbours to the north? As far as I can tell, among developed nations only Americans seem to regard gun ownership as an absolute right rather than a privilege. How could this be anything but cultural?

Silly that you would even have to write this. Don't get me wrong... it's entirely true. It's just silly that one would have to explain to someone how gun culture is at the root of this case.

Except you've both missed my point. And to answer the prior post - there's lots of places that not only allow, but promote use of guns by youth. But that's entirely beside the point I was making.

And not for a moment am I suggesting any of that is good or right. But again, that was beside the point. So, carry on with your misplaced smugness.

We never missed your point. We understand that the instructor is largely responsible for his death.

You missed Blue and White's point: it's your ridiculous gun culture and passion for guns that motivated a set of parents to bring their 9 year old daughter to a gun range, take a quick lesson on how to fire an uzi, and film her as if it was her bar mitzvah or piano recital.

callen

EdsonNascimento said:

callen said:

EdsonNascimento said:

This has more to do with parental stupidity than gun laws. I am by no means a gun lobby advocate, but this isn't a great example for the anti's. It's pure adult stupidity. When can we outlaw that? That's a far bigger scourge on our society bc it leads to stuff like this.

True but it is the gun culture and it's acceptance in the US that instilled the thought that it would be a great family outing to shoot guns for fun.

It's not the culture. It's her stupid parents and the stupid instructor. Whether we like guns or not is irrelevant to the stupidity that led to this incident.

It is the culture and the name if the range specifically targets it. Guns cool fun. Guns are tools. Deadly tools. We glorify guns to the detriment of many.

chadwick

http://youtu.be/6nf1OgV449g

thank you, switzerland. you fuckers are wonderful. here is a model to learn from

Stickman12

chadwick said:

http://youtu.be/6nf1OgV449g

thank you, switzerland. you fuckers are wonderful. here is a model to learn from

those fuckers are awesome!!!!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

chadwick said:

http://youtu.be/6nf1OgV449g

thank you, switzerland. you fuckers are wonderful. here is a model to learn from

Are you referring to their highly socialistic and extreme left politics?