Police abuse

callen

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

pjhawks

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

HughFreakingDillon

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

So your answer is 'yes'. You are saying society is to blame for two thirds of black children being raised by a single parent. It's interesting that you say this.

I would disagree. I agree that it is a contributing factor, but its not the deciding factor. I would suggest that the cycle of children being raised by single parents is in full gear and perpetuating itself. There are reasons- such as the one you keep insisting- for this epidemic, but let's not deny it.

* I'm not saying anything at all about genetics that distinguish one race from another. But I could though. I do believe there are inherent differences amongst the races that cannot be disputed very easily. For example... how many Chinese people do you see in the NBA compared to black people? It should be equal if people are all the same... but we are not. I'm not saying one race is better than the next race: we are different... and I have no problem with that at all.

As for your silly question... no... no one race isn't hornier than another.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

This is the million dollar question.

There are conditions which are not favourable to making the correction, but some of the variables that perpetuate the situation are internal. It's not completely 'society's fault'.

Listen... I don't know how I'm coming across, but know this: I have an extreme amount of respect and admiration for a people that were released from bondage with nothing but the clothes on their back and in relatively little time... ascended to the presidency of the country that once held them in chains. A freaking unbelievable accomplishment and unparalleled progress when you think of it.

pjhawks

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

HughFreakingDillon

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

society is responsible for the current situation. society put them in that position through oppression/cultural genocide/slavery/etc.

they need to be willing partners, but yes, it is a societal issue. that's what a civilized society IS.

if you grew up being neglected and beaten, chances are you would do the same, especially if it was the social norm. and that happened in the first place because of what the Europeans did to them.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

This is the million dollar question.

There are conditions which are not favourable to making the correction, but some of the variables that perpetuate the situation are internal. It's not completely 'society's fault'.

Listen... I don't know how I'm coming across, but know this: I have an extreme amount of respect and admiration for a people that were released from bondage with nothing but the clothes on their back and in relatively little time... ascended to the presidency of the country that once held them in chains. A freaking unbelievable accomplishment and unparalleled progress when you think of it.

to me, you are coming across as a person with intellgent thoughts and respectful discussion points.

it started as society's fault. and it went from there. these things don't happen naturally. and the government thought throwing money at them and giving them land would help. well come on, you give the leader of any community all the cash, and say "disperse equally as you see fit, good luck", and then act surprised when the chief has a giant house and everyone else's is dilapidated. that type of corruption and greed happens in all walks of life. it's just so much more obvious on small reserves.

pjhawks

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

society is responsible for the current situation. society put them in that position through oppression/cultural genocide/slavery/etc.

they need to be willing partners, but yes, it is a societal issue. that's what a civilized society IS.

if you grew up being neglected and beaten, chances are you would do the same, especially if it was the social norm. and that happened in the first place because of what the Europeans did to them.

There were plenty of other ethnicities oppressed and discriminated against in this country who haven't had the pervasive long term problems as we see today in poor black communities. Is society to be thanked for those groups having success in those situations?

I'm not saying we don't have a responsibility to help in whatever ways we can, but the solutions have to start in those communities 1st. not continuing the history of fatherless homes is a good place to start.

HughFreakingDillon

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

society is responsible for the current situation. society put them in that position through oppression/cultural genocide/slavery/etc.

they need to be willing partners, but yes, it is a societal issue. that's what a civilized society IS.

if you grew up being neglected and beaten, chances are you would do the same, especially if it was the social norm. and that happened in the first place because of what the Europeans did to them.

There were plenty of other ethnicities oppressed and discriminated against in this country who haven't had the pervasive long term problems as we see today in poor black communities. Is society to be thanked for those groups having success in those situations?

I'm not saying we don't have a responsibility to help in whatever ways we can, but the solutions have to start in those communities 1st. not continuing the history of fatherless homes is a good place to start.

vastly different cultures. apples and oranges.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

society is responsible for the current situation. society put them in that position through oppression/cultural genocide/slavery/etc.

they need to be willing partners, but yes, it is a societal issue. that's what a civilized society IS.

if you grew up being neglected and beaten, chances are you would do the same, especially if it was the social norm. and that happened in the first place because of what the Europeans did to them.

There were plenty of other ethnicities oppressed and discriminated against in this country who haven't had the pervasive long term problems as we see today in poor black communities. Is society to be thanked for those groups having success in those situations?

I'm not saying we don't have a responsibility to help in whatever ways we can, but the solutions have to start in those communities 1st. not continuing the history of fatherless homes is a good place to start.

vastly different cultures. apples and oranges.

So you agree with me that culture is significant when discussing these types of topics?

16% of Asian children are raised in single parent homes. 25% of white children are raised in single parent homes. What variable accounts for this discrepancy? If I'm following some logic in this recent discussion... I would be led to believe that Asian families are slightly more affluent and in slightly better circumstances than white families. I say 'slightly' because the discrepancy isn't massive such as the one that exists between, say, blacks and whites.

pjhawks

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

society is responsible for the current situation. society put them in that position through oppression/cultural genocide/slavery/etc.

they need to be willing partners, but yes, it is a societal issue. that's what a civilized society IS.

if you grew up being neglected and beaten, chances are you would do the same, especially if it was the social norm. and that happened in the first place because of what the Europeans did to them.

There were plenty of other ethnicities oppressed and discriminated against in this country who haven't had the pervasive long term problems as we see today in poor black communities. Is society to be thanked for those groups having success in those situations?

I'm not saying we don't have a responsibility to help in whatever ways we can, but the solutions have to start in those communities 1st. not continuing the history of fatherless homes is a good place to start.

vastly different cultures. apples and oranges.

hmm a page ago it was about economics...now it's not? interesting reverse there

HughFreakingDillon

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

society is responsible for the current situation. society put them in that position through oppression/cultural genocide/slavery/etc.

they need to be willing partners, but yes, it is a societal issue. that's what a civilized society IS.

if you grew up being neglected and beaten, chances are you would do the same, especially if it was the social norm. and that happened in the first place because of what the Europeans did to them.

There were plenty of other ethnicities oppressed and discriminated against in this country who haven't had the pervasive long term problems as we see today in poor black communities. Is society to be thanked for those groups having success in those situations?

I'm not saying we don't have a responsibility to help in whatever ways we can, but the solutions have to start in those communities 1st. not continuing the history of fatherless homes is a good place to start.

vastly different cultures. apples and oranges.

hmm a page ago it was about economics...now it's not? interesting reverse there

not a reverse. it's not as simple as one thing. and saying it's about economics is simplistic. but I mean that these groups come from vastly different cultural backgrounds, so of course that plays into how they respond to certain adversities.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

society is responsible for the current situation. society put them in that position through oppression/cultural genocide/slavery/etc.

they need to be willing partners, but yes, it is a societal issue. that's what a civilized society IS.

if you grew up being neglected and beaten, chances are you would do the same, especially if it was the social norm. and that happened in the first place because of what the Europeans did to them.

There were plenty of other ethnicities oppressed and discriminated against in this country who haven't had the pervasive long term problems as we see today in poor black communities. Is society to be thanked for those groups having success in those situations?

I'm not saying we don't have a responsibility to help in whatever ways we can, but the solutions have to start in those communities 1st. not continuing the history of fatherless homes is a good place to start.

vastly different cultures. apples and oranges.

So you agree with me that culture is significant when discussing these types of topics?

16% of Asian children are raised in single parent homes. 25% of white children are raised in single parent homes. What variable accounts for this discrepancy? If I'm following some logic in this recent discussion... I would be led to believe that Asian families are slightly more affluent and in slightly better circumstances than white families. I say 'slightly' because the discrepancy isn't massive such as the one that exists between, say, blacks and whites.

affluency has nothing, or very little, to do with it. to me it has more to do with how a culture perceives its single parents. decades ago divorce was unheard of in america. now it's half the population that gets married.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

society is responsible for the current situation. society put them in that position through oppression/cultural genocide/slavery/etc.

they need to be willing partners, but yes, it is a societal issue. that's what a civilized society IS.

if you grew up being neglected and beaten, chances are you would do the same, especially if it was the social norm. and that happened in the first place because of what the Europeans did to them.

There were plenty of other ethnicities oppressed and discriminated against in this country who haven't had the pervasive long term problems as we see today in poor black communities. Is society to be thanked for those groups having success in those situations?

I'm not saying we don't have a responsibility to help in whatever ways we can, but the solutions have to start in those communities 1st. not continuing the history of fatherless homes is a good place to start.

vastly different cultures. apples and oranges.

So you agree with me that culture is significant when discussing these types of topics?

in effect, not in cause.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

if you grow up around gang bangers, hookers, drugs, and crime, chances are that cycle will repeat. just as my dad was a white collar office worker, so are his kids. are there anomalies? of course there are. but it's not the norm. you are born into a herd, you adopt their behaviours and tendencies. saying "I have a (insert downtrodden minority here) friend who got out of the ghetto and is leading a productive life, so I know it can be done" isn't a plausible argument. those are the exceptions to the rule.

most people don't move up or down an ecomomic or social class. they generally stay in the one they were born into and grew up in. that's the whole point. it's not a racial thing. it's a human nature thing.

Agreed.

There are other human instincts too, Hugh: paternal and maternal instincts.

My point, if it is not obvious, is that if you leave children to raise themselves... they are doomed to failure. When two thirds of your population is raised by a single parent and such a practice entrenches itself as the norm... that's not going to play out well for future generations.

People keep asking for solutions to the problem. I'm trying to illustrate one: eventually, people need to fulfill their responsibility as parents in some of these communities. How is that going to happen? I don't know. Conditions aren't favourable for that reversing itself anytime soon, but its fair to say that kids need a semblance of normalcy before they grow into hardened adults (or adolescents for that matter) destined for anything but success.

but how can we expect parents in these situations to "step up" when they had no model to follow? they were part of the cycle as well. society needs to step up for them and help.

do you suggest we personally put condoms on them? how does society fix the problem of unwanted children and absentee fathers? sorry parenthood is a PERSONAL responsibility, not societies.

society is responsible for the current situation. society put them in that position through oppression/cultural genocide/slavery/etc.

they need to be willing partners, but yes, it is a societal issue. that's what a civilized society IS.

if you grew up being neglected and beaten, chances are you would do the same, especially if it was the social norm. and that happened in the first place because of what the Europeans did to them.

There were plenty of other ethnicities oppressed and discriminated against in this country who haven't had the pervasive long term problems as we see today in poor black communities. Is society to be thanked for those groups having success in those situations?

I'm not saying we don't have a responsibility to help in whatever ways we can, but the solutions have to start in those communities 1st. not continuing the history of fatherless homes is a good place to start.

vastly different cultures. apples and oranges.

So you agree with me that culture is significant when discussing these types of topics?

in effect, not in cause.

I think we're on the same page.

The problem is very complicated and there is no 'one solution'. It is a situation that has been neglected and one that deserves some attention at the national level. Not addressing it is not making the problem any better. It is also one where all stakeholders shoulder responsibility on some levels.

callen

pjhawks said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

how do you know how Thirty or anyone else on here was brought up or in what environment they were brought up in? I am sure there are some people on here who weren't brought up with a golden spoon in their mouth. stop it already.

I'm sorry did you grow up black in Chicago project?

callen

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

I've answered this repeatedly. You are the product of your environment. Call the environment what you like. (Society).

You aren't special Thirty. Your views action opportunities are programmed by your environment.

What are you trying to say thirty? Please explain your question. Are you relating race with promiscuity? Is it a gene? If you feel so just say it.

So your answer is 'yes'. You are saying society is to blame for two thirds of black children being raised by a single parent. It's interesting that you say this.

I would disagree. I agree that it is a contributing factor, but its not the deciding factor. I would suggest that the cycle of children being raised by single parents is in full gear and perpetuating itself. There are reasons- such as the one you keep insisting- for this epidemic, but let's not deny it.

* I'm not saying anything at all about genetics that distinguish one race from another. But I could though. I do believe there are inherent differences amongst the races that cannot be disputed very easily. For example... how many Chinese people do you see in the NBA compared to black people? It should be equal if people are all the same... but we are not. I'm not saying one race is better than the next race: we are different... and I have no problem with that at all.

As for your silly question... no... no one race isn't hornier than another.

Hmm seems by reading through your waffling post you agree with me. Cool.