That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.
Wouldn't there be something in their code of ethics where they are obligated to override their ranking officer if they are putting/neglecting someone in imminent danger?
Probably, and that's why they were fired. But that's not the same as being charged with a crime.That'd be a good argument in a civil suit against them though.
I obviously have a limited understanding of why they'd be culpable enough to lose their jobs but not enough to be charged.
Yeah I understand that. But charged with what? And I'm not trying to say they shouldn't be, or that I don't want them to be held accountable. But I'm just trying to figure out what criminal statute you get them on. There's a lot of latitude afforded to police in situations like this, which can construe the incident as them trying to do their jobs, but failing (thus the firings), rather than abject negligence....which it was.
I'm not saying it won't happen, I said it could be tough. They're not as cut-and-dry as Chauvin.
That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.
Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.
My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.
It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.
If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.
I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.
If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.
BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.
You seem to think I'm advocating for those other officers not to be charged. I'm not. I'm saying it's not that easy. It took them three days to arrest the guy that actually committed the act, and when Hugh was commenting two minutes later that the others needed to be arrested, I was just saying that it's not that easy for a DA to come up with the right charges to arrest a group of cops.
That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.
Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.
My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.
It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.
If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.
I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.
If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.
BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.
You seem to think I'm advocating for those other officers not to be charged. I'm not. I'm saying it's not that easy. It took them three days to arrest the guy that actually committed the act, and when Hugh was commenting two minutes later that the others needed to be arrested, I was just saying that it's not that easy for a DA to come up with the right charges to arrest a group of cops.
Hello There I wasn't thinking you were advocating for that. Just wanted to throw my opinion in the ring as to why they should be. And I agree with you.. it's really not easy and odds are, they won't be arrested.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.
Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.
My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.
It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.
If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.
I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.
If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.
BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.
You seem to think I'm advocating for those other officers not to be charged. I'm not. I'm saying it's not that easy. It took them three days to arrest the guy that actually committed the act, and when Hugh was commenting two minutes later that the others needed to be arrested, I was just saying that it's not that easy for a DA to come up with the right charges to arrest a group of cops.
Hello There I wasn't thinking you were advocating for that. Just wanted to throw my opinion in the ring as to why they should be. And I agree with you.. it's really not easy and odds are, they won't be arrested.
Ya never know, they still might. The DA just said Chauvin was the main priority, but that future charges may come.
That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.
Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.
My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.
It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.
If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.
I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.
If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.
BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.
You seem to think I'm advocating for those other officers not to be charged. I'm not. I'm saying it's not that easy. It took them three days to arrest the guy that actually committed the act, and when Hugh was commenting two minutes later that the others needed to be arrested, I was just saying that it's not that easy for a DA to come up with the right charges to arrest a group of cops.
Hello There I wasn't thinking you were advocating for that. Just wanted to throw my opinion in the ring as to why they should be. And I agree with you.. it's really not easy and odds are, they won't be arrested.
Ya never know, they still might. The DA just said Chauvin was the main priority, but that future charges may come.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
@Ledbetterman10 I'd be personally surprised, but as stated I think it should happen. To a certain degree I would feel bad for the other officers because It's a system and environment of policing that causes them to not act against a fellow officer. That's a personal feeling. But they should absolutely be charged if only to send a clear message that this will not be tolerated.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.
Wouldn't there be something in their code of ethics where they are obligated to override their ranking officer if they are putting/neglecting someone in imminent danger?
Probably, and that's why they were fired. But that's not the same as being charged with a crime.That'd be a good argument in a civil suit against them though.
I obviously have a limited understanding of why they'd be culpable enough to lose their jobs but not enough to be charged.
The statute for charges, which takes away one’s basic freedoms, is much higher than just firing someone. Unfortunatey I’ve worked with several teachers who have lost their jobs over allegations from a student. Only 1 was ever charged.
Some here seem to sympathize with the rioters. I can’t. It’s disgusting. In my opinion they aren’t protesting, but taking advantage of someone else’s death to riot, rob and loot.
The cop should be charged. But they are just as bad when they set fires, rob banks, change “kill white people” etc. I will never take a group of people seriously who pretend to be against the system when they promote violence based on color themselves or burn down random stores of innocent people. Anyone found rioting should be arrested and held accountable for all injuries, deaths and damages.
Some here seem to sympathize with the rioters. I can’t. It’s disgusting. In my opinion they aren’t protesting, but taking advantage of someone else’s death to riot, rob and loot.
The cop should be charged. But they are just as bad when they set fires, rob banks, change “kill white people” etc. I will never take a group of people seriously who pretend to be against the system when they promote violence based on color themselves or burn down random stores of innocent people. Anyone found rioting should be arrested and held accountable for all injuries, deaths and damages.
with how angry i am over this, as a privileged and safe white male canadian, i simply cannot fathom the anger i'd feel if were a black male american. i simply can't. do i agree with rioting? i don't know if there's an agree or disagree on that. but i also can't judge, because i simply cannot even get close to fitting in their shoes.
Some here seem to sympathize with the rioters. I can’t. It’s disgusting. In my opinion they aren’t protesting, but taking advantage of someone else’s death to riot, rob and loot.
The cop should be charged. But they are just as bad when they set fires, rob banks, change “kill white people” etc. I will never take a group of people seriously who pretend to be against the system when they promote violence based on color themselves or burn down random stores of innocent people. Anyone found rioting should be arrested and held accountable for all injuries, deaths and damages.
with how angry i am over this, as a privileged and safe white male canadian, i simply cannot fathom the anger i'd feel if were a black male american. i simply can't. do i agree with rioting? i don't know if there's an agree or disagree on that. but i also can't judge, because i simply cannot even get close to fitting in their shoes.
I agree. Nothing at all against what mace is saying. I respect the opinion, and certainly see that point of view. With regards to rioting or civil disobedience, I think folks like mace should consider that what these people are doing is damaging property, property that can be replaced. People can't be. And I mentioned earlier that there is a chance that if people, especially those who feel oppressed, are ignored enough.... there is sometimes no limit to what they will do. I think that the rioting comes from a couple different places but Hugh said it nicely... anger is one of them. People are getting really angry about what's going on and seemingly taking it out on buildings and cruisers and police departments. Some are just morons who capitalize on opportunities to be menaces to society. But as Hugh said... I'm a white Canadian dude... so I have no idea how it feels to be a black American. But I can surmise. And I would be next level angry if I saw what was happening down there in my own streets by the people who we pay to protect us.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,769
Some here seem to sympathize with the rioters. I can’t. It’s disgusting. In my opinion they aren’t protesting, but taking advantage of someone else’s death to riot, rob and loot.
The cop should be charged. But they are just as bad when they set fires, rob banks, change “kill white people” etc. I will never take a group of people seriously who pretend to be against the system when they promote violence based on color themselves or burn down random stores of innocent people. Anyone found rioting should be arrested and held accountable for all injuries, deaths and damages.
with how angry i am over this, as a privileged and safe white male canadian, i simply cannot fathom the anger i'd feel if were a black male american. i simply can't. do i agree with rioting? i don't know if there's an agree or disagree on that. but i also can't judge, because i simply cannot even get close to fitting in their shoes.
Yeah, I agree. I would certainly never engage in or condone rioting as a reaction, but as a while male, that's easy to say. When I watch video of George Floyd being detained and killed the way he was and then think about how racism and police brutality too often occurs (not always, there are good cops), and then think about how I would feel if I were an African American, I can understand the violent reaction. I too cannot judge that reaction.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So much for non violent, peaceful protests. This whole situation is fucking disgraceful. From the cop straight to the idiots who have to break the law and vandalize. Way to prove a point.
White people riot and vandalize and loot because their sports team lost, and almost nothing is done about it.
Black people riot and vandalize and loot because their people are being murdered by police on video, and people use it as an excuse why cops treat black people this way.
interesting.
WVU came to mind immediately. Great example, perspective
That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.
Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.
My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.
It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.
If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.
I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.
If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.
BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.
Many of us are appalled and angry but conducting intelligent conversations so we are able to see different perspectives. These are all goods points from all three of you...HFD obviously the angry one (just kidding) but it's how most of us feel...outraged. And he made a valid comparison regarding the riots. I'm reading what everyone is saying to try and better understand and see what I'm missing about how fucked up everything is.
Some here seem to sympathize with the rioters. I can’t. It’s disgusting. In my opinion they aren’t protesting, but taking advantage of someone else’s death to riot, rob and loot.
The cop should be charged. But they are just as bad when they set fires, rob banks, change “kill white people” etc. I will never take a group of people seriously who pretend to be against the system when they promote violence based on color themselves or burn down random stores of innocent people. Anyone found rioting should be arrested and held accountable for all injuries, deaths and damages.
with how angry i am over this, as a privileged and safe white male canadian, i simply cannot fathom the anger i'd feel if were a black male american. i simply can't. do i agree with rioting? i don't know if there's an agree or disagree on that. but i also can't judge, because i simply cannot even get close to fitting in their shoes.
I can respect and sympathize with protestors who do it peacefully. I’ve been amazed by the actions of some in previous incidents, watching a stranger walk up and give a cop a hug or something like that.
But a few years ago BLM was chanting to kill a cop, and guess what? There was a series of cop ambushed and several were murdered. Last night they were chanting “kill white peoples.” I can and will judge that. That is wrong and you are protesting violence with more violence. They are no better than the dirty cops they are protesting. Same with people burning down building and cars. You are intentionally destroying livelihoods and risking the lives of innocent people. They are also just as bad as the worst cop out there. I don’t care how angry you get, do not kill innocent people. If you do, you are a shit person, I don’t care what you pretend your cause is. Anyone running into a bank to rob it, they aren’t doing it out of protest and anger, it’s opportunity. They know the police are overwhelmed and nothing will ever come of it. I have no respect for them.
Some here seem to sympathize with the rioters. I can’t. It’s disgusting. In my opinion they aren’t protesting, but taking advantage of someone else’s death to riot, rob and loot.
The cop should be charged. But they are just as bad when they set fires, rob banks, change “kill white people” etc. I will never take a group of people seriously who pretend to be against the system when they promote violence based on color themselves or burn down random stores of innocent people. Anyone found rioting should be arrested and held accountable for all injuries, deaths and damages.
with how angry i am over this, as a privileged and safe white male canadian, i simply cannot fathom the anger i'd feel if were a black male american. i simply can't. do i agree with rioting? i don't know if there's an agree or disagree on that. but i also can't judge, because i simply cannot even get close to fitting in their shoes.
I agree. Nothing at all against what mace is saying. I respect the opinion, and certainly see that point of view. With regards to rioting or civil disobedience, I think folks like mace should consider that what these people are doing is damaging property, property that can be replaced. People can't be. And I mentioned earlier that there is a chance that if people, especially those who feel oppressed, are ignored enough.... there is sometimes no limit to what they will do. I think that the rioting comes from a couple different places but Hugh said it nicely... anger is one of them. People are getting really angry about what's going on and seemingly taking it out on buildings and cruisers and police departments. Some are just morons who capitalize on opportunities to be menaces to society. But as Hugh said... I'm a white Canadian dude... so I have no idea how it feels to be a black American. But I can surmise. And I would be next level angry if I saw what was happening down there in my own streets by the people who we pay to protect us.
It’s not just property that can be replaced. In some cases it’s someone’s livelihood that will struggle to recover from. It’s only a matter of time people people get killed inside a burning car or building. If you burn down random stores and buildings then I don’t think that person has any respect for life. They are risking the lives of innocent to make their statement.
Peaceful protest has not led to one whit of change. Those saying to "just protest peacefully" have no idea of the magnitude of the problem. I can understand the rage and frustration.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Peaceful protest has not led to one whit of change. Those saying to "just protest peacefully" have no idea of the magnitude of the problem. I can understand the rage and frustration.
There’s a lot of area between holding up a sign and burning down homes and store of innocent people and chanting kill white people.
Peaceful protest has not led to one whit of change. Those saying to "just protest peacefully" have no idea of the magnitude of the problem. I can understand the rage and frustration.
This is where I am at this moment.
Can’t kneel....can’t riot...can’t continue to live this way.
Has anyone else seen the videos of people dressed in black starting the fires and breaking windows? Wtf is their motivation? Seems like there are some plants in the crowd trying to increase negative perception of the protesters or? Most looked like white people dressed in black...who are those asshats stirring the pot? Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9ivuIk1o-A&feature=share
Peaceful protest has not led to one whit of change. Those saying to "just protest peacefully" have no idea of the magnitude of the problem. I can understand the rage and frustration.
This is where I am at this moment.
Can’t kneel....can’t riot...can’t continue to live this way.
Can’t block any sort of roadway or public area. Being inconvenienced really irritates the white folk.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Peaceful protest has not led to one whit of change. Those saying to "just protest peacefully" have no idea of the magnitude of the problem. I can understand the rage and frustration.
This is where I am at this moment.
Can’t kneel....can’t riot...can’t continue to live this way.
Can’t block any sort of roadway or public area. Being inconvenienced really irritates the white folk.
My issue with the violence is that it only creates more violence. Are you okay with people that you don’t agree with using these same violent methods for their cause (whatever it may be). All that you do when you encourage violence is encourage more violence. People here were complaining when the anti Quarantine idiots were blocking roadways...well... As many have said, I cannot imagine the anger over this situation that I would feel if I were black. At the same time, I learned not to break shit when angry when I was a toddler...
Peaceful protest has not led to one whit of change. Those saying to "just protest peacefully" have no idea of the magnitude of the problem. I can understand the rage and frustration.
This is where I am at this moment.
Can’t kneel....can’t riot...can’t continue to live this way.
Can’t block any sort of roadway or public area. Being inconvenienced really irritates the white folk.
My issue with the violence is that it only creates more violence. Are you okay with people that you don’t agree with using these same violent methods for their cause (whatever it may be). All that you do when you encourage violence is encourage more violence. People here were complaining when the anti Quarantine idiots were blocking roadways...well... As many have said, I cannot imagine the anger over this situation that I would feel if I were black. At the same time, I learned not to break shit when angry when I was a toddler...
The biggest complaint I have, and why I don’t understand why anyone would be okay with these riots, is the targeting of other innocent civilians and their businesses. Well either that or the fact they aren’t 6 feet apart.
You’re upset at the police? So you burn down a liquor store of someone just trying to make a living?
Peaceful protest has not led to one whit of change. Those saying to "just protest peacefully" have no idea of the magnitude of the problem. I can understand the rage and frustration.
They usually don’t like peaceful protest, anyway. It’s always the wrong time, wrong place, or wrong way.
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Peaceful protest has not led to one whit of change. Those saying to "just protest peacefully" have no idea of the magnitude of the problem. I can understand the rage and frustration.
This is where I am at this moment.
Can’t kneel....can’t riot...can’t continue to live this way.
Can’t block any sort of roadway or public area. Being inconvenienced really irritates the white folk.
My issue with the violence is that it only creates more violence. Are you okay with people that you don’t agree with using these same violent methods for their cause (whatever it may be). All that you do when you encourage violence is encourage more violence. People here were complaining when the anti Quarantine idiots were blocking roadways...well... As many have said, I cannot imagine the anger over this situation that I would feel if I were black. At the same time, I learned not to break shit when angry when I was a toddler...
I guess you’re okay with the vandalism and armed occupation of a nature preserve and the armed, illegal grazing of cattle on federal land? Violence perpetrated on the innocent or a double standard? Maybe you’re also okay with that motorcycle gang shootout at lunch time? Why one but not the other?
And when you were a toddler, did your dad fail to come home after going to the corner store? After going for a jog? Maybe just going about their day? When you were a toddler, did you hear about friends or family members being face down in the street? Not coming home because of a run in with the police? And when you were a toddler, did you have a reason to break something? I think I know the answer.
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I'm not saying it won't happen, I said it could be tough. They're not as cut-and-dry as Chauvin.
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Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
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Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
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Unfortunatey I’ve worked with several teachers who have lost their jobs over allegations from a student. Only 1 was ever charged.
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I agree. Nothing at all against what mace is saying. I respect the opinion, and certainly see that point of view. With regards to rioting or civil disobedience, I think folks like mace should consider that what these people are doing is damaging property, property that can be replaced. People can't be. And I mentioned earlier that there is a chance that if people, especially those who feel oppressed, are ignored enough.... there is sometimes no limit to what they will do. I think that the rioting comes from a couple different places but Hugh said it nicely... anger is one of them. People are getting really angry about what's going on and seemingly taking it out on buildings and cruisers and police departments. Some are just morons who capitalize on opportunities to be menaces to society. But as Hugh said... I'm a white Canadian dude... so I have no idea how it feels to be a black American. But I can surmise. And I would be next level angry if I saw what was happening down there in my own streets by the people who we pay to protect us.
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Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Yeah, I agree. I would certainly never engage in or condone rioting as a reaction, but as a while male, that's easy to say. When I watch video of George Floyd being detained and killed the way he was and then think about how racism and police brutality too often occurs (not always, there are good cops), and then think about how I would feel if I were an African American, I can understand the violent reaction. I too cannot judge that reaction.
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These are all goods points from all three of you...HFD obviously the angry one (just kidding) but it's how most of us feel...outraged. And he made a valid comparison regarding the riots. I'm reading what everyone is saying to try and better understand and see what I'm missing about how fucked up everything is.
Anyone running into a bank to rob it, they aren’t doing it out of protest and anger, it’s opportunity. They know the police are overwhelmed and nothing will ever come of it. I have no respect for them.
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Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9ivuIk1o-A&feature=share
As many have said, I cannot imagine the anger over this situation that I would feel if I were black. At the same time, I learned not to break shit when angry when I was a toddler...
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And when you were a toddler, did your dad fail to come home after going to the corner store? After going for a jog? Maybe just going about their day? When you were a toddler, did you hear about friends or family members being face down in the street? Not coming home because of a run in with the police? And when you were a toddler, did you have a reason to break something? I think I know the answer.
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