this thing needs shut down. back and forth with bullshit personal stuff.
Yeah, the argument seems to be bases on some misunderstanding. I'm not sure what CM's link was intended to say and it leaves a lot of room for uncertainty that way. Maybe some clarification there?
I think we all want peace but nerves fray around this shit.
Here's the clarification: I keep hearing people say Israel is just defending itself. That they aren't just outright murdering Palestinians. And here you have Israelis literally calling for genocide. Calling Arabs second class citizens, animals and to torch them alive.
To say they are just defending themselves doesn't hold water for me anymore. In the words of RR, if they don't like the situation they're living in, perhaps they should just move? May I suggest Florida?
I'm guessing with a little looking we could find tweets and such by Palestinians calling for Israeli genocide as well. A lot of hate flies in both directions. What a mess.
This is true. But the dialogue out there now is: "Everyone hates Israel. Israel is only defending itself. Israel is a democratic country that only wants peace for it's people. Israel is the victim here." This hatred is 2 way street, and the USA is shamelessly funding the 4 lane highway of hatred.
brian, that would require palestinians in gaza to have electricity and internet access... but i digress...
So true, gimme, and good point. We have so little idea how it must be to live there.
Sometimes when I read about these conflicts I think about Bob Dylan's song "Neighborhood Bully" and wonder at how it's meaning has blurred. I still have a hard time formulating a solid picture of who is doing what. I read about the Hamas shooting hundreds of rockets into Israel then I read about Israel committing war crimes on the Palestinians and it all seems so convoluted and cruel.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
this thing needs shut down. back and forth with bullshit personal stuff.
Yeah, the argument seems to be bases on some misunderstanding. I'm not sure what CM's link was intended to say and it leaves a lot of room for uncertainty that way. Maybe some clarification there?
I think we all want peace but nerves fray around this shit.
Here's the clarification: I keep hearing people say Israel is just defending itself. That they aren't just outright murdering Palestinians. And here you have Israelis literally calling for genocide. Calling Arabs second class citizens, animals and to torch them alive.
To say they are just defending themselves doesn't hold water for me anymore. In the words of RR, if they don't like the situation they're living in, perhaps they should just move? May I suggest Florida?
CM,here I am relaxing enjoying a cold adult beverage soaking up some warm tropical evening Florida beach breezes,trying to stay out of this fray,thinking why contribute to a one sided conversation and showing a little class in light of today's horrible body count and horrific news footage,and poof,just like that I see you not only took my words and applied them in the wrong context but you take a shot a my beloved home. So,when using one of my quotes please at least back it up with proper context.I was talking to RGambs about his being ashamed to be American when I used that reference not Israelis or Palestinians,But Lets not let that stop a good jab at my expense,Im a grown ass man with a healthy sense of humor so Touché.BTW the beach joke earlier was very well done,properly placed and timed like a champ.Kudos to you.I was told by BB and Byrnzie that there can be no joking or making lite of any thing regarding this discussion,Im glad you had the stones to buck the trend and decided to add a what Ive been saying all along is ok.A smile or two will only help.
And my dear Muslim pal Badbrains,you wouldn't be referring to Florida as a "new Tel Aviv" because of our large population of Jewish folks here in South Florida would you? Nah,I didn't think so.
this thing needs shut down. back and forth with bullshit personal stuff.
Yeah, the argument seems to be bases on some misunderstanding. I'm not sure what CM's link was intended to say and it leaves a lot of room for uncertainty that way. Maybe some clarification there?
I think we all want peace but nerves fray around this shit.
Here's the clarification: I keep hearing people say Israel is just defending itself. That they aren't just outright murdering Palestinians. And here you have Israelis literally calling for genocide. Calling Arabs second class citizens, animals and to torch them alive.
To say they are just defending themselves doesn't hold water for me anymore. In the words of RR, if they don't like the situation they're living in, perhaps they should just move? May I suggest Florida?
CM,here I am relaxing enjoying a cold adult beverage soaking up some warm tropical evening Florida beach breezes,trying to stay out of this fray,thinking why contribute to a one sided conversation and showing a little class in light of today's horrible body count and horrific news footage,and poof,just like that I see you not only took my words and applied them in the wrong context but you take a shot a my beloved home. So,when using one of my quotes please at least back it up with proper context.I was talking to RGambs about his being ashamed to be American when I used that reference not Israelis or Palestinians,But Lets not let that stop a good jab at my expense,Im a grown ass man with a healthy sense of humor so Touché.BTW the beach joke earlier was very well done,properly placed and timed like a champ.Kudos to you.I was told by BB and Byrnzie that there can be no joking or making lite of any thing regarding this discussion,Im glad you had the stones to buck the trend and decided to add a what Ive been saying all along is ok.A smile or two will only help.
And my dear Muslim pal Badbrains,you wouldn't be referring to Florida as a "new Tel Aviv" because of our large population of Jewish folks here in South Florida would you? Nah,I didn't think so.
Oh so know u want to take my words out of context? Lol, have at it. I think it's pretty obvious to anyone with a simple common brain can understand that when someone mentioned something about sending them to Florida instead of them stealing the land, I mentioned ya, imagine Florida as the "new" tel aviv, u know, "when" they go there. Not referring to the ones already there. I can't believe I have to clarify myself on this post. But ok. U want to call me an anti-Semite now? Wow, you're reaching. I've got friends who fucken served in the idf "pal". But somehow because I'm against this occupation, you're gonna try to label me as something I'm not. Go and enjoy your "adult" beverage pal. Look, I can joke to B-)
Badbrains,I did not call you out as an anti-Semite.None of your staements have been,and i do keep it straight.And Im glad your starting to joke a little,you will live longer that way.Oh I found two guys to negotiate the peace process." />
Badbrains,I did not call you out as an anti-Semite.None of your staements have been,and i do keep it straight.And Im glad your starting to joke a little,you will live longer that way.Oh I found two guys to negotiate the peace process." />
Wish it was that easy man. Really do. They'd prob do a hell of a lot better then the guys in charge now, no doubt.
Well, if Pearl Jam aren't gonna play in Israel, I suppose the next best form of entertainment would be watching Palestinian men, women, and children getting blown to pieces.
Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza People drink, snack and pose for selfies against a background of explosions as Palestinian death toll mounts in ongoing offensive
Harriet Sherwood in Sderot The Guardian, Sunday 20 July 2014
Israelis watch bombings of Gaza from Sderot hillside
As the sun begins to sink over the Mediterranean, groups of Israelis gather each evening on hilltops close to the Gaza border to cheer, whoop and whistle as bombs rain down on people in a hellish warzone a few miles away.
Old sofas, garden chairs, battered car seats and upturned crates provide seating for the spectators. On one hilltop, a swing has been attached to the branches of a pine tree, allowing its occupant to sway gently in the breeze. Some bring bottles of beer or soft drinks and snacks.
On Saturday, a group of men huddle around a shisha pipe. Nearly all hold up smartphones to record the explosions or to pose grinning, perhaps with thumbs up, for selfies against a backdrop of black smoke.
Despite reports that millions of Israelis are living in terror of Hamas rockets, they don't deter these hilltop war watchers whose proximity to Gaza puts them within range of the most rudimentary missiles. Some bring their children.
In the border town of Sderot, which has been struck by countless missiles from the Gaza Strip in recent years, one family gathers on a top-floor balcony, draped with an Israeli flag and banner of the army's legendary Golani Brigade. A house with a war view may even command a premium price these days. Israeli watches Gaza bombing from hillside sofa Israeli man watches the bombardment as he sits on an old sofa left on a hillside in Sderot. Photograph: UPI/Landov/Barcroft Media
An atmosphere of anticipatory excitement grows as dusk falls, in the expectation that Hamas militants will increase rocket fire after breaking their Ramadan fast, and the Israeli military will respond with force.
The thud of shellfire, flash of an explosion and pall of smoke are greeted with exclamations of approval. "What a beauty," says one appreciative spectator.
Shimrit Peretz, 19, has come with her off-duty soldier boyfriend, Raz Sason, whose army-issue assault rifle is slung across his shoulders.
"We come to look at the bombing," Peretz says, adding that this is their fourth visit to the hilltop. They plan to stay several hours: "It's interesting." The pair have brought a backpack filled with bottles of water and bags of crisps.
Peretz says that she doesn't worry about the Palestinian civilians caught in the bombing; Sason disagrees. Despite his concern for the innocents caught in the assault, the young conscript soldier wishes he was with his comrades across the border in Gaza. "I'd like to be going in, to help my country and help the soldiers inside," he says.
Given the dramatic views, media crews are coming to the area to cover the fighting. On a nearby hilltop, an ugly scene develops as a group of Israeli men threaten a photographer, accusing him of being a "leftist". We are warned against asking for interviews, as another cheer goes up.
it will be funny when the people watching the carnage and cheering get drafted and have to go put themselves at risk. it will be funny for them when they are ordered to go kill themselves some palestinian citizens.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
it will be funny when the people watching the carnage and cheering get drafted and have to go put themselves at risk. it will be funny for them when they are ordered to go kill themselves some palestinian citizens.
There is no draft, military service is mandatory. Killing Palestinians is more like a perk...
Well, if Pearl Jam aren't gonna play in Israel, I suppose the next best form of entertainment would be watching Palestinian men, women, and children getting blown to pieces.
Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza People drink, snack and pose for selfies against a background of explosions as Palestinian death toll mounts in ongoing offensive
Harriet Sherwood in Sderot The Guardian, Sunday 20 July 2014
Israelis watch bombings of Gaza from Sderot hillside
As the sun begins to sink over the Mediterranean, groups of Israelis gather each evening on hilltops close to the Gaza border to cheer, whoop and whistle as bombs rain down on people in a hellish warzone a few miles away.
Old sofas, garden chairs, battered car seats and upturned crates provide seating for the spectators. On one hilltop, a swing has been attached to the branches of a pine tree, allowing its occupant to sway gently in the breeze. Some bring bottles of beer or soft drinks and snacks.
On Saturday, a group of men huddle around a shisha pipe. Nearly all hold up smartphones to record the explosions or to pose grinning, perhaps with thumbs up, for selfies against a backdrop of black smoke.
Despite reports that millions of Israelis are living in terror of Hamas rockets, they don't deter these hilltop war watchers whose proximity to Gaza puts them within range of the most rudimentary missiles. Some bring their children.
In the border town of Sderot, which has been struck by countless missiles from the Gaza Strip in recent years, one family gathers on a top-floor balcony, draped with an Israeli flag and banner of the army's legendary Golani Brigade. A house with a war view may even command a premium price these days. Israeli watches Gaza bombing from hillside sofa Israeli man watches the bombardment as he sits on an old sofa left on a hillside in Sderot. Photograph: UPI/Landov/Barcroft Media
An atmosphere of anticipatory excitement grows as dusk falls, in the expectation that Hamas militants will increase rocket fire after breaking their Ramadan fast, and the Israeli military will respond with force.
The thud of shellfire, flash of an explosion and pall of smoke are greeted with exclamations of approval. "What a beauty," says one appreciative spectator.
Shimrit Peretz, 19, has come with her off-duty soldier boyfriend, Raz Sason, whose army-issue assault rifle is slung across his shoulders.
"We come to look at the bombing," Peretz says, adding that this is their fourth visit to the hilltop. They plan to stay several hours: "It's interesting." The pair have brought a backpack filled with bottles of water and bags of crisps.
Peretz says that she doesn't worry about the Palestinian civilians caught in the bombing; Sason disagrees. Despite his concern for the innocents caught in the assault, the young conscript soldier wishes he was with his comrades across the border in Gaza. "I'd like to be going in, to help my country and help the soldiers inside," he says.
Given the dramatic views, media crews are coming to the area to cover the fighting. On a nearby hilltop, an ugly scene develops as a group of Israeli men threaten a photographer, accusing him of being a "leftist". We are warned against asking for interviews, as another cheer goes up.
I love that you have time to spread a sign of hatred, rather than respond to legitimate questions of mine about the so-called ceasefire agreement which you still haven't materialized proof of having actually been delivered to Israelis. Quite clearly, this is not a discussion, it's a monologue.
I've learned a TON from you and badbrains - mostly things that have left me shocked and appalled with Israeli behaviour, and have actually led to friction within my family when I hear complete BS and bigotry from my parents, and try and combat that and justify things from other perspectives. But that being said - guess what? I'm a Jew. Since you've repeated time and time again that Zionists and Israelis are the ones oppressing the Palestinians, I would've thought it was in your best interests to help me understand steps being produced by Hamas seemingly in favour of peace, because frankly I don't give a fuck which side information comes from; I will share it readily if it's logical. Once more I'll ask: why is the supposed Hamas-produced ceasefire a ten year ceasefire in your opinion, is there merit behind the thought that the ten years are to surrender the totality of historic Palestine, and where is the proof of this ceasefire agreement being formally delivered to Israelis? Do you not realize that I am the kind of person who you should be responding to rationally (as opposed to ignoring), given that I KNOW ZIONISTS? And that I think Zionism is (quite frankly) an absurd notion if it means deaths of human beings, and that I am NOT afraid to open my mouth and speak up for something I believe in, even if it means I will be scrutinized by my community, peers, and even my family?
By the way, let me help you understand WHY I keep asking: at our family Shabbat dinner, when my mom suggested we pray for the Israelis. I added that we should pray for the Palestinians too (just an aside, I'm anti-prayer, because I'm anti-religion, and not a believer in a god - I just wanted my family to be fair and equivocal in their best wishes and not so sickeningly one-sided). This opened the door for further discussion, and when I brought up the cease fire - guess what? All of the sudden, my argument that Palestinians are here looking for peace too - even Hamas-led initiatives - fell to pieces with a seemingly very fair ceasefire agreement, but which Google yields no evidence of having actually been formally submitted! Please, help me figure this out. Give me the evidence so that I can push it forward.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
this thing needs shut down. back and forth with bullshit personal stuff.
Yeah, the argument seems to be bases on some misunderstanding. I'm not sure what CM's link was intended to say and it leaves a lot of room for uncertainty that way. Maybe some clarification there?
I think we all want peace but nerves fray around this shit.
Here's the clarification: I keep hearing people say Israel is just defending itself. That they aren't just outright murdering Palestinians. And here you have Israelis literally calling for genocide. Calling Arabs second class citizens, animals and to torch them alive.
To say they are just defending themselves doesn't hold water for me anymore. In the words of RR, if they don't like the situation they're living in, perhaps they should just move? May I suggest Florida?
CM,here I am relaxing enjoying a cold adult beverage soaking up some warm tropical evening Florida beach breezes,trying to stay out of this fray,thinking why contribute to a one sided conversation and showing a little class in light of today's horrible body count and horrific news footage,and poof,just like that I see you not only took my words and applied them in the wrong context but you take a shot a my beloved home. So,when using one of my quotes please at least back it up with proper context.I was talking to RGambs about his being ashamed to be American when I used that reference not Israelis or Palestinians,But Lets not let that stop a good jab at my expense,Im a grown ass man with a healthy sense of humor so Touché.BTW the beach joke earlier was very well done,properly placed and timed like a champ.Kudos to you.I was told by BB and Byrnzie that there can be no joking or making lite of any thing regarding this discussion,Im glad you had the stones to buck the trend and decided to add a what Ive been saying all along is ok.A smile or two will only help.
And my dear Muslim pal Badbrains,you wouldn't be referring to Florida as a "new Tel Aviv" because of our large population of Jewish folks here in South Florida would you? Nah,I didn't think so.
How was the context wrong? Follows your logic... You don't want your US tax dollars going to war? Move. You don't want mortars from Gaza flying over your head? Move.
Florida's f'd up, but that's a discussion for another thread. Perhaps when the all the Israelis move to Florida, it will become it's own independent state and we can finally fully recognize Puerto Rico as a state instead.
I love that you have time to spread a sign of hatred, rather than respond to legitimate questions of mine about the so-called ceasefire agreement which you still haven't materialized proof of having actually been delivered to Israelis. Quite clearly, this is not a discussion, it's a monologue.
I simply posted an article showing that some Israeli's are cheering the murder of Palestinian civilians. Do I hate people that cheer the murder of innocents? Yeah, I do. Am I supposed to feel sorry about that? Do I hate racists? Yeah. And I make no apologies for that either.
Funny that I get criticized for Googling stuff here, and backing up what I say with source material. But in the next breath i get criticized for not backing up every single thing I say with source material. So which is it?
One day after an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire accepted by Israel, but rejected by Hamas, fell through, the terrorist organization proposed a 10-year end to hostilities in return for its conditions being met by Israel, Channel 2 reported Wednesday.
Hamas's conditions were the release of re-arrested Palestinian prisoners who were let go in the Schalit deal, the opening of Gaza-Israel border crossings in order to allow citizens and goods to pass through, and international supervision of the Gazan seaport in place of the current Israeli blockade.
Former Balad MK Azmi Bishara presented the group's conditions on Al Jazeera on Wednesday.
(JTA) — Hamas proposed its own 10-point plan for a cease-fire in hostilities with Israel.
Versions of the Hamas plan, which includes U.N.-supervised border crossings and the release of prisoners, appeared Tuesday and Wednesday in Maariv, an Israeli newspaper, and “Arabs Now,” a Palestinian-focused news website. Maariv quoted a “senior Palestinian source.”
Hamas rejected a cease-fire proposal from Egypt that was to go into effect Tuesday morning.
Both reports said Hamas proposed an end to hostilities, including a pullback of Israeli tanks; lifting the Israeli blockade on the Gaza Strip; opening air, sea and land entries to Gaza under the auspices of the United Nations and other countries; and the release of prisoners detained in last month’s sweeping West Bank search for the kidnappers and murderers of three Israeli teenagers.
Hamas’ conditions for a ceasefire have been clear. As the Guardian reported on 9 July, Hamas has:
'asked for the ceasefire conditions from the last major round of fighting with Israel in [November] 2012 to be reinstated, for the re-release of prisoners freed by Israel in exchange for the kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit, who were rounded up again by Israeli after the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers, later found murdered, and an end to what it says is Israeli meddling in the Palestinian unity government.'
In other words, Hamas mostly wants Israel to abide by agreements it has already made.
In November 2012, Israel agreed to “stop all hostilities in the Gaza Strip [by] land, sea and air including incursions and targeting of individuals.”
Another crucial condition of the November 2012 ceasefire agreement, to which Hamas remains committed is:
Opening the crossings and facilitating the movements of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents’ free movements and targeting residents in border areas and procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire.
But especially since the coup in Egypt last year, the siege, from all sides, has been tighter than ever.
As this graphic, made by Ben White and Rachele Richards using UN data in early 2013, shows, Israel’s gross violations of the ceasefire began immediately. “Ceasefire” meant, in practice, that the Palestinians ceased fire while Israel continued to attack, invade and kill.
This one's my favorite, pretty well sums it up: "Let's call it a day and announce a ceasefire so we can go back to killing you slowly like we've been doing for 8 years. sincerely, Israel"
I'm gonna give it up for benj, I honestly think he actually cares and it seems like it's now effecting his home. Shows how both sides have victims, only thing is that I feel that the Palestinians have been super fucked for so long. Not diminishing what any Israeli or supporter of Israel has gone thru. Like I've mentioned before, I've got a couple of friends who served in the idf. But that not the point, it's the murder (on both sides) it's the kids who are being raped of their souls, it's the parents, ones who have children blown up, or the parents who are staying up all nite worrying about their kids who serve in the idf, who are "only" following orders from "above", it's fucked up. We need BOTH sides to step up and truly want to have peace. Question is, do they really want peace? Legitimate peace?
Benj, I appreciate the kind words about how "somehow" I've opened up some things in this conflict inside if you. I dnt have the skills as most of the people in here who have shared so much passion on both sides, the Byrnzie's, Cosmo ,Gimmie, CM, yosi's, our own prof jimmy, people from the past, people who are new to "commenting, but have always followed", and you Benj, you've posted things on here that have added to this cause, has had people start to question what's going on. This is such a sad fucken situation and when people look back on this time, I KNOW EVERYONE, on BOTH SIDES and ALL over the WORLD are gonna be completely ASHAMED.
I just ask that people do research, read, find out, make your own opinions. And just be aware. It's ok to know what's happening in the world outside our borders. It's ok to know what other people are doing to each other (bad/good), it's ok to ask questions and esta bein to VOICE YOUR OPINION. Wether we agree or not. Wow, I think just tried a Sunday Serman. Now give me a 13 Hail Marys and a good nite. [-O< X 13
Oh and g under p, I appreciate what I've learned from some of the stuff we've talked about over the times. Good looking out, thank u my friend.
It seems like Hamas gains nothing from firing rockets and building tunnels into Israel. It seems they could further bolster public opinion in their favor by not attacking Israel and providing excuses to Israel. Clearly their bombs accomplish nothing for them so they do not have anything to lose.
"Abu Obeida, a spokesman for Hamas' military wing, had earlier provided the supposed soldier's name and ID, saying, "He is a prisoner, and if Zionists lie about the dead and wounded, then the fate of this soldier is their responsibility."
And there is your prisoner as predicted yesterday... Congrats to all!
this thing needs shut down. back and forth with bullshit personal stuff.
Yeah, the argument seems to be bases on some misunderstanding. I'm not sure what CM's link was intended to say and it leaves a lot of room for uncertainty that way. Maybe some clarification there?
I think we all want peace but nerves fray around this shit.
Here's the clarification: I keep hearing people say Israel is just defending itself. That they aren't just outright murdering Palestinians. And here you have Israelis literally calling for genocide. Calling Arabs second class citizens, animals and to torch them alive.
To say they are just defending themselves doesn't hold water for me anymore. In the words of RR, if they don't like the situation they're living in, perhaps they should just move? May I suggest Florida?
CM,here I am relaxing enjoying a cold adult beverage soaking up some warm tropical evening Florida beach breezes,trying to stay out of this fray,thinking why contribute to a one sided conversation and showing a little class in light of today's horrible body count and horrific news footage,and poof,just like that I see you not only took my words and applied them in the wrong context but you take a shot a my beloved home. So,when using one of my quotes please at least back it up with proper context.I was talking to RGambs about his being ashamed to be American when I used that reference not Israelis or Palestinians,But Lets not let that stop a good jab at my expense,Im a grown ass man with a healthy sense of humor so Touché.BTW the beach joke earlier was very well done,properly placed and timed like a champ.Kudos to you.I was told by BB and Byrnzie that there can be no joking or making lite of any thing regarding this discussion,Im glad you had the stones to buck the trend and decided to add a what Ive been saying all along is ok.A smile or two will only help.
And my dear Muslim pal Badbrains,you wouldn't be referring to Florida as a "new Tel Aviv" because of our large population of Jewish folks here in South Florida would you? Nah,I didn't think so.
How was the context wrong? Follows your logic... You don't want your US tax dollars going to war? Move. You don't want mortars from Gaza flying over your head? Move.
Florida's f'd up, but that's a discussion for another thread. Perhaps when the all the Israelis move to Florida, it will become it's own independent state and we can finally fully recognize Puerto Rico as a state instead.
Wow,that's super smart CM.
And trust me I know Florida is a deliciously wacky place.We have all that is good and all that is wrong at the same time.We are a picturesque post card and an enquirer cover all in one.It is embraced to the fullest.I will send you a picture in Feb while floating in my pool,just to cheer you up while your shoveling a mountain of snow off your driveway.BTW I'm pretty sure Chicago has a few issues of its own.You are welcome to visit our lovely state whenever you want.We welcome everyone.(And your tourist tax revenue).In fact bring,Your whole little pro Palestinian group to A PJ show in The Palm Beaches and I will buy you crazy kids the Cold delicious refreshing beverage of your choice(alcohol or not )while you enjoy Pearl Jam and Florida Hospitality.I will even invite some of my Jewish buddies and we can show the world all it takes is some tasty waves and a cool buzz and all is good.
War crime: video shows sniper killing of wounded Gaza civilian 07/21/2014
A video has emerged https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBakqLUBWP0 of the targeting and killing by a sniper of a Palestinian civilian in Gaza City’s Shujaiya neighborhood where Israeli shelling killed dozens of civilians and caused massive destruction early on Sunday morning.
The video, documenting a war crime, was uploaded to YouTube by the International Solidarity Movement, which described the incident in a 20 July press release:
The Israeli military just shot a Gazan man trying to reach his family, during an announced ceasefire. He was with a group of municipality workers and international human rights defenders who were attempting to retrieve injured people in the Shujaiya neighborhood.
“We all just watched a man murdered in front of us. He was trying to reach his family in Shujaiya, he had not heard from them and was worried about them. They shot him, and then continued to fire as he was on the ground. We had no choice but to retreat. We couldn’t reach him due to the artillery fire and then he stopped moving.” Stated Joe Catron, US International Solidarity Movement (ISM) activist in Gaza. “Shajiya is a smoking wasteland. We just passed two bombed out ambulances.”
The Israel military has also shelled Red Crescent ambulances as they attempted to retrieve injured people in the Shujaiya neighbourhood, east of Gaza City. A ceasefire was announced, during which injured and dead people, could be evacuated from the area, in which at least 60 people have been killed today.
“They said we would be able to evacuate the injured from the disaster zone, but they have been shelling ambulances,” stated Dr Khalil Abu Foul of the Palestinian Red Crescent, speaking from Shujaiya.
Now, the international volunteers, including some from the US, the UK, and Sweden, are in a rescue centre on the outskirts of Shujaiya.
Wow, watched that video again. WOW, wtf, dnt tell me they AINT TARGETING CIVILIANS! You have CLEAR fucken video that they are. Tell me wtf he was doing besides looking for his family? How can anyone apologize for that? And anyone else notice how PERFECT some of the people in the video we're talking English? Sounded American to me.
And Gazans cheering the the capture of a dead soldier... Certainly reason to celebrate!
Where did you read that the soldier is dead?
Meanwhile, the Palestinian death toll 'reached 548 on Monday as officials said four were killed when a Gaza hospital was hit by Israeli fire.'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/gaza-crisis-obama-ceasefire-fighting-goes-on Staff at the al-Asqa Martyrs hospital were said to be in shock that the building was hit. "People can't believe this is happening - that a medical hospital was shelled without the briefest warning. It was already full with patients," said Fikr Shalltoot, director of programmes at Medical Aid for Palestinians in Gaza City.
"Five people, I gather were killed, and 15 were injured, including medical staff. I know the staff very well. My nephew is a medical doctor there."
...Twenty-five members of the same family were reported killed in an airstrike in the south of Gaza, and a further 10 people were killed near Khan Younis.
Did Obama really get awarded the Nobel Peace Prize?
Amen brother, but what did we expect with aipac squeezing his and every president before him balls.
Ha! He sucks (and all of American Presidents/politicians suck)because of his AIPAC afiliation. Perfect!
As far as soldier being dead, I read in one of the news orgs. Was buried in the story as the Israeli government claimed the soldier identified by Hamas was dead and accounted for... Regardless, if he is dead or alive, it's the same game.
Comments
"Everyone hates Israel. Israel is only defending itself. Israel is a democratic country that only wants peace for it's people. Israel is the victim here."
This hatred is 2 way street, and the USA is shamelessly funding the 4 lane highway of hatred.
Sometimes when I read about these conflicts I think about Bob Dylan's song "Neighborhood Bully" and wonder at how it's meaning has blurred. I still have a hard time formulating a solid picture of who is doing what. I read about the Hamas shooting hundreds of rockets into Israel then I read about Israel committing war crimes on the Palestinians and it all seems so convoluted and cruel.
nothing more.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
So,when using one of my quotes please at least back it up with proper context.I was talking to RGambs about his being ashamed to be American when I used that reference not Israelis or Palestinians,But Lets not let that stop a good jab at my expense,Im a grown ass man with a healthy sense of humor so Touché.BTW the beach joke earlier was very well done,properly placed and timed like a champ.Kudos to you.I was told by BB and Byrnzie that there can be no joking or making lite of any thing regarding this discussion,Im glad you had the stones to buck the trend and decided to add a what Ive been saying all along is ok.A smile or two will only help.
And my dear Muslim pal Badbrains,you wouldn't be referring to Florida as a "new Tel Aviv" because of our large population of Jewish folks here in South Florida would you? Nah,I didn't think so.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing
Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza
People drink, snack and pose for selfies against a background of explosions as Palestinian death toll mounts in ongoing offensive
Harriet Sherwood in Sderot
The Guardian, Sunday 20 July 2014
Israelis watch bombings of Gaza from Sderot hillside
As the sun begins to sink over the Mediterranean, groups of Israelis gather each evening on hilltops close to the Gaza border to cheer, whoop and whistle as bombs rain down on people in a hellish warzone a few miles away.
Old sofas, garden chairs, battered car seats and upturned crates provide seating for the spectators. On one hilltop, a swing has been attached to the branches of a pine tree, allowing its occupant to sway gently in the breeze. Some bring bottles of beer or soft drinks and snacks.
On Saturday, a group of men huddle around a shisha pipe. Nearly all hold up smartphones to record the explosions or to pose grinning, perhaps with thumbs up, for selfies against a backdrop of black smoke.
Despite reports that millions of Israelis are living in terror of Hamas rockets, they don't deter these hilltop war watchers whose proximity to Gaza puts them within range of the most rudimentary missiles. Some bring their children.
In the border town of Sderot, which has been struck by countless missiles from the Gaza Strip in recent years, one family gathers on a top-floor balcony, draped with an Israeli flag and banner of the army's legendary Golani Brigade. A house with a war view may even command a premium price these days.
Israeli watches Gaza bombing from hillside sofa Israeli man watches the bombardment as he sits on an old sofa left on a hillside in Sderot. Photograph: UPI/Landov/Barcroft Media
An atmosphere of anticipatory excitement grows as dusk falls, in the expectation that Hamas militants will increase rocket fire after breaking their Ramadan fast, and the Israeli military will respond with force.
The thud of shellfire, flash of an explosion and pall of smoke are greeted with exclamations of approval. "What a beauty," says one appreciative spectator.
Shimrit Peretz, 19, has come with her off-duty soldier boyfriend, Raz Sason, whose army-issue assault rifle is slung across his shoulders.
"We come to look at the bombing," Peretz says, adding that this is their fourth visit to the hilltop. They plan to stay several hours: "It's interesting." The pair have brought a backpack filled with bottles of water and bags of crisps.
Peretz says that she doesn't worry about the Palestinian civilians caught in the bombing; Sason disagrees. Despite his concern for the innocents caught in the assault, the young conscript soldier wishes he was with his comrades across the border in Gaza. "I'd like to be going in, to help my country and help the soldiers inside," he says.
Given the dramatic views, media crews are coming to the area to cover the fighting. On a nearby hilltop, an ugly scene develops as a group of Israeli men threaten a photographer, accusing him of being a "leftist". We are warned against asking for interviews, as another cheer goes up.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I've learned a TON from you and badbrains - mostly things that have left me shocked and appalled with Israeli behaviour, and have actually led to friction within my family when I hear complete BS and bigotry from my parents, and try and combat that and justify things from other perspectives. But that being said - guess what? I'm a Jew. Since you've repeated time and time again that Zionists and Israelis are the ones oppressing the Palestinians, I would've thought it was in your best interests to help me understand steps being produced by Hamas seemingly in favour of peace, because frankly I don't give a fuck which side information comes from; I will share it readily if it's logical. Once more I'll ask: why is the supposed Hamas-produced ceasefire a ten year ceasefire in your opinion, is there merit behind the thought that the ten years are to surrender the totality of historic Palestine, and where is the proof of this ceasefire agreement being formally delivered to Israelis? Do you not realize that I am the kind of person who you should be responding to rationally (as opposed to ignoring), given that I KNOW ZIONISTS? And that I think Zionism is (quite frankly) an absurd notion if it means deaths of human beings, and that I am NOT afraid to open my mouth and speak up for something I believe in, even if it means I will be scrutinized by my community, peers, and even my family?
By the way, let me help you understand WHY I keep asking: at our family Shabbat dinner, when my mom suggested we pray for the Israelis. I added that we should pray for the Palestinians too (just an aside, I'm anti-prayer, because I'm anti-religion, and not a believer in a god - I just wanted my family to be fair and equivocal in their best wishes and not so sickeningly one-sided). This opened the door for further discussion, and when I brought up the cease fire - guess what? All of the sudden, my argument that Palestinians are here looking for peace too - even Hamas-led initiatives - fell to pieces with a seemingly very fair ceasefire agreement, but which Google yields no evidence of having actually been formally submitted! Please, help me figure this out. Give me the evidence so that I can push it forward.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
You don't want your US tax dollars going to war? Move.
You don't want mortars from Gaza flying over your head? Move.
Florida's f'd up, but that's a discussion for another thread. Perhaps when the all the Israelis move to Florida, it will become it's own independent state and we can finally fully recognize Puerto Rico as a state instead.
Funny that I get criticized for Googling stuff here, and backing up what I say with source material. But in the next breath i get criticized for not backing up every single thing I say with source material.
So which is it?
Anyway....
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/What-are-Hamass-conditions-for-a-cease-fire-363011
Channel 2: Hamas demands release of Schalit deal prisoners who were re-arrested, the opening of Gaza border crossings.
One day after an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire accepted by Israel, but rejected by Hamas, fell through, the terrorist organization proposed a 10-year end to hostilities in return for its conditions being met by Israel, Channel 2 reported Wednesday.
Hamas's conditions were the release of re-arrested Palestinian prisoners who were let go in the Schalit deal, the opening of Gaza-Israel border crossings in order to allow citizens and goods to pass through, and international supervision of the Gazan seaport in place of the current Israeli blockade.
Former Balad MK Azmi Bishara presented the group's conditions on Al Jazeera on Wednesday.
...
Hamas lists cease-fire demands
July 16, 2014
(JTA) — Hamas proposed its own 10-point plan for a cease-fire in hostilities with Israel.
Versions of the Hamas plan, which includes U.N.-supervised border crossings and the release of prisoners, appeared Tuesday and Wednesday in Maariv, an Israeli newspaper, and “Arabs Now,” a Palestinian-focused news website. Maariv quoted a “senior Palestinian source.”
Hamas rejected a cease-fire proposal from Egypt that was to go into effect Tuesday morning.
Both reports said Hamas proposed an end to hostilities, including a pullback of Israeli tanks; lifting the Israeli blockade on the Gaza Strip; opening air, sea and land entries to Gaza under the auspices of the United Nations and other countries; and the release of prisoners detained in last month’s sweeping West Bank search for the kidnappers and murderers of three Israeli teenagers.
..........
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/hamas-did-not-reject-ceasefire-israel-did
'...it is Israel that has rejected reasonable ceasefire conditions that have always been on the table.
Why won’t Israel accept what it already signed?
Hamas’ conditions for a ceasefire have been clear. As the Guardian reported on 9 July, Hamas has:
'asked for the ceasefire conditions from the last major round of fighting with Israel in [November] 2012 to be reinstated, for the re-release of prisoners freed by Israel in exchange for the kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit, who were rounded up again by Israeli after the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers, later found murdered, and an end to what it says is Israeli meddling in the Palestinian unity government.'
In other words, Hamas mostly wants Israel to abide by agreements it has already made.
In November 2012, Israel agreed to “stop all hostilities in the Gaza Strip [by] land, sea and air including incursions and targeting of individuals.”
Another crucial condition of the November 2012 ceasefire agreement, to which Hamas remains committed is:
Opening the crossings and facilitating the movements of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents’ free movements and targeting residents in border areas and procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire.
But especially since the coup in Egypt last year, the siege, from all sides, has been tighter than ever.
As this graphic, made by Ben White and Rachele Richards using UN data in early 2013, shows, Israel’s gross violations of the ceasefire began immediately. “Ceasefire” meant, in practice, that the Palestinians ceased fire while Israel continued to attack, invade and kill.
"Let's call it a day and announce a ceasefire so we can go back to killing you slowly like we've been doing for 8 years. sincerely, Israel"
Benj, I appreciate the kind words about how "somehow" I've opened up some things in this conflict inside if you. I dnt have the skills as most of the people in here who have shared so much passion on both sides, the Byrnzie's, Cosmo ,Gimmie, CM, yosi's, our own prof jimmy, people from the past, people who are new to "commenting, but have always followed", and you Benj, you've posted things on here that have added to this cause, has had people start to question what's going on. This is such a sad fucken situation and when people look back on this time, I KNOW EVERYONE, on BOTH SIDES and ALL over the WORLD are gonna be completely ASHAMED.
I just ask that people do research, read, find out, make your own opinions. And just be aware. It's ok to know what's happening in the world outside our borders. It's ok to know what other people are doing to each other (bad/good), it's ok to ask questions and esta bein to VOICE YOUR OPINION. Wether we agree or not. Wow, I think just tried a Sunday Serman. Now give me a 13 Hail Marys and a good nite. [-O< X 13
Oh and g under p, I appreciate what I've learned from some of the stuff we've talked about over the times. Good looking out, thank u my friend.
And there is your prisoner as predicted yesterday... Congrats to all!
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
And trust me I know Florida is a deliciously wacky place.We have all that is good and all that is wrong at the same time.We are a picturesque post card and an enquirer cover all in one.It is embraced to the fullest.I will send you a picture in Feb while floating in my pool,just to cheer you up while your shoveling a mountain of snow off your driveway.BTW I'm pretty sure Chicago has a few issues of its own.You are welcome to visit our lovely state whenever you want.We welcome everyone.(And your tourist tax revenue).In fact bring,Your whole little pro Palestinian group to A PJ show in The Palm Beaches and I will buy you crazy kids the Cold delicious refreshing beverage of your choice(alcohol or not )while you enjoy Pearl Jam and Florida Hospitality.I will even invite some of my Jewish buddies and we can show the world all it takes is some tasty waves and a cool buzz and all is good.
War crime: video shows sniper killing of wounded Gaza civilian
07/21/2014
A video has emerged
The video, documenting a war crime, was uploaded to YouTube by the International Solidarity Movement, which described the incident in a 20 July press release:
The Israeli military just shot a Gazan man trying to reach his family, during an announced ceasefire. He was with a group of municipality workers and international human rights defenders who were attempting to retrieve injured people in the Shujaiya neighborhood.
“We all just watched a man murdered in front of us. He was trying to reach his family in Shujaiya, he had not heard from them and was worried about them. They shot him, and then continued to fire as he was on the ground. We had no choice but to retreat. We couldn’t reach him due to the artillery fire and then he stopped moving.” Stated Joe Catron, US International Solidarity Movement (ISM) activist in Gaza. “Shajiya is a smoking wasteland. We just passed two bombed out ambulances.”
The Israel military has also shelled Red Crescent ambulances as they attempted to retrieve injured people in the Shujaiya neighbourhood, east of Gaza City. A ceasefire was announced, during which injured and dead people, could be evacuated from the area, in which at least 60 people have been killed today.
“They said we would be able to evacuate the injured from the disaster zone, but they have been shelling ambulances,” stated Dr Khalil Abu Foul of the Palestinian Red Crescent, speaking from Shujaiya.
Now, the international volunteers, including some from the US, the UK, and Sweden, are in a rescue centre on the outskirts of Shujaiya.
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
Meanwhile, the Palestinian death toll 'reached 548 on Monday as officials said four were killed when a Gaza hospital was hit by Israeli fire.'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/gaza-crisis-obama-ceasefire-fighting-goes-on
Staff at the al-Asqa Martyrs hospital were said to be in shock that the building was hit. "People can't believe this is happening - that a medical hospital was shelled without the briefest warning. It was already full with patients," said Fikr Shalltoot, director of programmes at Medical Aid for Palestinians in Gaza City.
"Five people, I gather were killed, and 15 were injured, including medical staff. I know the staff very well. My nephew is a medical doctor there."
...Twenty-five members of the same family were reported killed in an airstrike in the south of Gaza, and a further 10 people were killed near Khan Younis.
As far as soldier being dead, I read in one of the news orgs. Was buried in the story as the Israeli government claimed the soldier identified by Hamas was dead and accounted for... Regardless, if he is dead or alive, it's the same game.
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA