Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

backseatLover12

I'll add this. (last time)

Some peaceful protesters in the late '60s became so hard headed and angry about the war, they started making their own war: making bombs in their basements to combat pro-war folks. Really? Using violence to combat violence? That is exactly what that post about being "anti-war" by being against war yet pro anger, and inevitably pro-war. You CAN'T SOLVE VIOLENCE WITH VIOLENCE.

Wake up folks, the only way to combat war is through empathy, understanding, dropping the pride, ego and issues we have in order to save mankind. Learn from each other, solve our issues and what Eddie said: "LOVE, LOVE, LOVE."

fuck

PJ_Soul said:

^^^^ What exactly is the point of that? Do we have some reason to believe that the Israeli government is using this quote in their mission statement? I'm not sure it's useful or productive to be posting ancient scripture here, as though it proves something. We could just just as easily do the same thing in terms of Muslims, taking quotes from their religious text (which is, in fact, more likely).

Ok, here's a recent Israeli lawmaker's call for genocide: http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-lawmakers-call-genocide-palestinians-gets-thousands-facebook-likes

But it's obvious to me from your posts that you simply don't understand what Zionism is, or its goal, and you've clearly never read what all the Zionist leaders from the early 20th century until now have said or done.

EdsonNascimento

fuck said:

EdsonNascimento said:

I think my favorite part of this and similar threads is that if you don't agree with me you're caving to propaganda, but what I post is definitely not propaganda especially if I post it over and over again.

Note: I am personally not calling anyone's posting propaganda. Just citing the

PJ_Soul said:

Byrnzie said:

Spags said:

3 day peace is on.

It didn't last long apparently:

http://www.worldbulletin.net/haberler/141712/israeli-tank-fire-kills-4-after-truce-begins?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

World Bulletin/News Desk

Israeli tanks opened fire in the southern Gaza Strip after a 72-hour truce began on Friday, a Reuters photographer and the Palestinian Interior Ministry said, and Hamas media reported that four people were killed.

The Israeli military had no immediate comment.

Sounds to me like it was Hamas who broke the cease fire.

It was. While the Israeli soldiers were seeking out to destroy the terror tunnels, a suicide bomber killed 2 soldiers and possibly the same or separate incident another soldier was taken hostage minutes after the cease fire.

John Kerry (and others) are calling for the unconditional return of the soldier captured to effectively break the terms of the cease fire.

But, don't worry - that will be dismissed a propaganda because it doesn't fit with a certain world view.

This is a lie. You're lying. A "suicide bomber"?? There hasn't been a Hamas suicide bomber since they renounced suicide bombing, like a decade ago! Have you forgotten what the Israeli lie is for this long?

Everyone else, Watch and learn: http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/gaza-cease-fire-implodes-after-attack-314229315859

It is clear from all the reports I've gotten on the ground that Israel murdered Palestinians in Rafah first.

See? It didn't take long. His source is better than my source because he says so.

fuck

EdsonNascimento said:

fuck said:

EdsonNascimento said:

I think my favorite part of this and similar threads is that if you don't agree with me you're caving to propaganda, but what I post is definitely not propaganda especially if I post it over and over again.

Note: I am personally not calling anyone's posting propaganda. Just citing the

PJ_Soul said:

Byrnzie said:

Spags said:

3 day peace is on.

It didn't last long apparently:

http://www.worldbulletin.net/haberler/141712/israeli-tank-fire-kills-4-after-truce-begins?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

World Bulletin/News Desk

Israeli tanks opened fire in the southern Gaza Strip after a 72-hour truce began on Friday, a Reuters photographer and the Palestinian Interior Ministry said, and Hamas media reported that four people were killed.

The Israeli military had no immediate comment.

Sounds to me like it was Hamas who broke the cease fire.

It was. While the Israeli soldiers were seeking out to destroy the terror tunnels, a suicide bomber killed 2 soldiers and possibly the same or separate incident another soldier was taken hostage minutes after the cease fire.

John Kerry (and others) are calling for the unconditional return of the soldier captured to effectively break the terms of the cease fire.

But, don't worry - that will be dismissed a propaganda because it doesn't fit with a certain world view.

This is a lie. You're lying. A "suicide bomber"?? There hasn't been a Hamas suicide bomber since they renounced suicide bombing, like a decade ago! Have you forgotten what the Israeli lie is for this long?

Everyone else, Watch and learn: http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/gaza-cease-fire-implodes-after-attack-314229315859

It is clear from all the reports I've gotten on the ground that Israel murdered Palestinians in Rafah first.

See? It didn't take long. His source is better than my source because he says so.

Except you didn't provide a source, while I provided a link proving your story is a lie.

EdsonNascimento

fuck said:

EdsonNascimento said:

fuck said:

EdsonNascimento said:

I think my favorite part of this and similar threads is that if you don't agree with me you're caving to propaganda, but what I post is definitely not propaganda especially if I post it over and over again.

Note: I am personally not calling anyone's posting propaganda. Just citing the

PJ_Soul said:

Byrnzie said:

Spags said:

3 day peace is on.

It didn't last long apparently:

http://www.worldbulletin.net/haberler/141712/israeli-tank-fire-kills-4-after-truce-begins?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

World Bulletin/News Desk

Israeli tanks opened fire in the southern Gaza Strip after a 72-hour truce began on Friday, a Reuters photographer and the Palestinian Interior Ministry said, and Hamas media reported that four people were killed.

The Israeli military had no immediate comment.

Sounds to me like it was Hamas who broke the cease fire.

It was. While the Israeli soldiers were seeking out to destroy the terror tunnels, a suicide bomber killed 2 soldiers and possibly the same or separate incident another soldier was taken hostage minutes after the cease fire.

John Kerry (and others) are calling for the unconditional return of the soldier captured to effectively break the terms of the cease fire.

But, don't worry - that will be dismissed a propaganda because it doesn't fit with a certain world view.

This is a lie. You're lying. A "suicide bomber"?? There hasn't been a Hamas suicide bomber since they renounced suicide bombing, like a decade ago! Have you forgotten what the Israeli lie is for this long?

Everyone else, Watch and learn: http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/gaza-cease-fire-implodes-after-attack-314229315859

It is clear from all the reports I've gotten on the ground that Israel murdered Palestinians in Rafah first.

See? It didn't take long. His source is better than my source because he says so.

Except you didn't provide a source, while I provided a link proving your story is a lie.

Msnbc? Isn't that like when someone quotes Fox News?

And around and around we go.

PJ_Soul

fuck said:

EdsonNascimento said:

I think my favorite part of this and similar threads is that if you don't agree with me you're caving to propaganda, but what I post is definitely not propaganda especially if I post it over and over again.

Note: I am personally not calling anyone's posting propaganda. Just citing the

PJ_Soul said:

Byrnzie said:

Spags said:

3 day peace is on.

It didn't last long apparently:

http://www.worldbulletin.net/haberler/141712/israeli-tank-fire-kills-4-after-truce-begins?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

World Bulletin/News Desk

Israeli tanks opened fire in the southern Gaza Strip after a 72-hour truce began on Friday, a Reuters photographer and the Palestinian Interior Ministry said, and Hamas media reported that four people were killed.

The Israeli military had no immediate comment.

Sounds to me like it was Hamas who broke the cease fire.

It was. While the Israeli soldiers were seeking out to destroy the terror tunnels, a suicide bomber killed 2 soldiers and possibly the same or separate incident another soldier was taken hostage minutes after the cease fire.

John Kerry (and others) are calling for the unconditional return of the soldier captured to effectively break the terms of the cease fire.

But, don't worry - that will be dismissed a propaganda because it doesn't fit with a certain world view.

This is a lie. You're lying. A "suicide bomber"?? There hasn't been a Hamas suicide bomber since they renounced suicide bombing, like a decade ago! Have you forgotten what the Israeli lie is for this long?

Everyone else, Watch and learn: http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/gaza-cease-fire-implodes-after-attack-314229315859

It is clear from all the reports I've gotten on the ground that Israel murdered Palestinians in Rafah first.

Yeah, I never heard anything about a suicide bomber. What I've gathered is that Hamas attacked a group of soldiers who were trying to destroy a tunnel and kidnapped one of them.

brianlux

backseatLover12 said:

I'll add this. (last time)

Some peaceful protesters in the late '60s became so hard headed and angry about the war, they started making their own war: making bombs in their basements to combat pro-war folks. Really? Using violence to combat violence? That is exactly what that post about being "anti-war" by being against war yet pro anger, and inevitably pro-war. You CAN'T SOLVE VIOLENCE WITH VIOLENCE.

Wake up folks, the only way to combat war is through empathy, understanding, dropping the pride, ego and issues we have in order to save mankind. Learn from each other, solve our issues and what Eddie said: "LOVE, LOVE, LOVE."

Exactly. Too much of this thread feels like HATE HATE HATE. I'm really not sure some here want to talk about, let alone think about, the concept of peace. For example, if someone says something you truly believe is wrong do you call them a liar or do you say, "I'm sorry but I believe you are greatly mistaken"? A person can be greatly mistaken yet not be lying. So instead of taking the more aggressive approach and discussing we get here, time and again, personal attacks.

Well fucks sake, no wonder we can't seem to talk about peace... or being anti-war. How can we discuss being anti war in the midst of a war of words? Very, very ironic isn't it?

I'm far from perfect so I don't mean to belittle anyone by saying this but I do want to say, thanks again to those here who see the sensibility of discussion- even heated discussion- that does not involve personal attacks.

And I'm STILL anti-war (i.e. for peace). Would love to hear more on that subject.

JimmyV

brianlux said:

backseatLover12 said:

I'll add this. (last time)

Some peaceful protesters in the late '60s became so hard headed and angry about the war, they started making their own war: making bombs in their basements to combat pro-war folks. Really? Using violence to combat violence? That is exactly what that post about being "anti-war" by being against war yet pro anger, and inevitably pro-war. You CAN'T SOLVE VIOLENCE WITH VIOLENCE.

Wake up folks, the only way to combat war is through empathy, understanding, dropping the pride, ego and issues we have in order to save mankind. Learn from each other, solve our issues and what Eddie said: "LOVE, LOVE, LOVE."

Exactly. Too much of this thread feels like HATE HATE HATE. I'm really not sure some here want to talk about, let alone think about, the concept of peace. For example, if someone says something you truly believe is wrong do you call them a liar or do you say, "I'm sorry but I believe you are greatly mistaken"? A person can be greatly mistaken yet not be lying. So instead of taking the more aggressive approach and discussing we get here, time and again, personal attacks.

Well fucks sake, no wonder we can't seem to talk about peace... or being anti-war. How can we discuss being anti war in the midst of a war of words? Very, very ironic isn't it?

I'm far from perfect so I don't mean to belittle anyone by saying this but I do want to say, thanks again to those here who see the sensibility of discussion- even heated discussion- that does not involve personal attacks.

And I'm STILL anti-war (i.e. for peace). Would love to hear more on that subject.

I would say that being against war might also go hand in hand with being against many of the reasons for war: greed, religious fundamentalism, so on and so forth. War doesn't happen in a vacuum, there are always reasons for it. The chase for control of natural resources is probably the biggest reason for war in the world today, and that comes down to greed. The need to have the most land or oil or water or gas. The Middle East is such a powder keg not solely because of religion or oil but because of the convergence of the two. The religion provides good cover for the greed.

So I'm not just against war, I'm against many of the reasons for war.

EdsonNascimento

PJ_Soul said:

fuck said:

EdsonNascimento said:

I think my favorite part of this and similar threads is that if you don't agree with me you're caving to propaganda, but what I post is definitely not propaganda especially if I post it over and over again.

Note: I am personally not calling anyone's posting propaganda. Just citing the

PJ_Soul said:

Byrnzie said:

Spags said:

3 day peace is on.

It didn't last long apparently:

http://www.worldbulletin.net/haberler/141712/israeli-tank-fire-kills-4-after-truce-begins?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

World Bulletin/News Desk

Israeli tanks opened fire in the southern Gaza Strip after a 72-hour truce began on Friday, a Reuters photographer and the Palestinian Interior Ministry said, and Hamas media reported that four people were killed.

The Israeli military had no immediate comment.

Sounds to me like it was Hamas who broke the cease fire.

It was. While the Israeli soldiers were seeking out to destroy the terror tunnels, a suicide bomber killed 2 soldiers and possibly the same or separate incident another soldier was taken hostage minutes after the cease fire.

John Kerry (and others) are calling for the unconditional return of the soldier captured to effectively break the terms of the cease fire.

But, don't worry - that will be dismissed a propaganda because it doesn't fit with a certain world view.

This is a lie. You're lying. A "suicide bomber"?? There hasn't been a Hamas suicide bomber since they renounced suicide bombing, like a decade ago! Have you forgotten what the Israeli lie is for this long?

Everyone else, Watch and learn: http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/gaza-cease-fire-implodes-after-attack-314229315859

It is clear from all the reports I've gotten on the ground that Israel murdered Palestinians in Rafah first.

Yeah, I never heard anything about a suicide bomber. What I've gathered is that Hamas attacked a group of soldiers who were trying to destroy a tunnel and kidnapped one of them.

These links are stupid, but here ya go. One of the many places the suicide bomber sited:

http://news.msn.com/world/gaza-truce-over-israel-soldier-captured-50-dead-in-rafah-shelling

Msn Vs msnbc Classic

My link is better than his link.

Stop the rhetoric. Hamas is a terrorist organization, the Palestinian cause would be better served with them out of the picture. Israel is in fact retaliating. Here's the simple math:

If Israel wanted to wipe every Palestinian off the face of the Middle East, they could do it in a lunch hour. They have not. So, the pyscophants can keep posting pictures and serving the Hamas cause. But, if Eddie or anyone else wants to serve the human cause which includes Israel and Palestinians they will be brave and put down the people trying to propagandize human death.

fuck

PJ_Soul said:

^^^^ What exactly is the point of that? Do we have some reason to believe that the Israeli government is using this quote in their mission statement? I'm not sure it's useful or productive to be posting ancient scripture here, as though it proves something. We could just just as easily do the same thing in terms of Muslims, taking quotes from their religious text (which is, in fact, more likely).

So you don't think it's a big deal when a major media outlet in Israel publishes a piece calling for genocide, in the midst of a massacre being carried out by their government? You don't think this is indicative of society at all? You think this isn't representative at all when a major media outlet brings someone on to do this in a country? what a joke. The problem here is that no one understands that Zionism, which has been driving the Israeli war machine for decades, has a goal to wipe out all Palestinian resistance, and force them to acquiesce to being kicked out of their land, die, or live as second class citizens.

History will judge all those who equivocated between both sides here, occupied and occupier, killer and killed.

Byrnzie

EdsonNascimento said:

It was. While the Israeli soldiers were seeking out to destroy the terror tunnels, a suicide bomber killed 2 soldiers and possibly the same or separate incident another soldier was taken hostage minutes after the cease fire.

John Kerry (and others) are calling for the unconditional return of the soldier captured to effectively break the terms of the cease fire.

But, don't worry - that will be dismissed a propaganda because it doesn't fit with a certain world view.

The 'terror tunnels'? I see you've bought into the Fox News, Benjamin Netanyahu narrative.
The 'terror tunnels'. Really? Is that what you think they are? Those tunnels that are an essential lifeline for a people under seige, and which supply approx 65% of their essential needs. If there was no blockade then threre'd be no tunnels.

Bentleyspop

Byrnzie said:

EdsonNascimento said:

It was. While the Israeli soldiers were seeking out to destroy the terror tunnels, a suicide bomber killed 2 soldiers and possibly the same or separate incident another soldier was taken hostage minutes after the cease fire.

John Kerry (and others) are calling for the unconditional return of the soldier captured to effectively break the terms of the cease fire.

But, don't worry - that will be dismissed a propaganda because it doesn't fit with a certain world view.

The 'terror tunnels'? I see you've bought into the Fox News, Benjamin Netanyahu narrative.
The 'terror tunnels'. Really? Is that what you think they are? Those tunnels that are an essential lifeline for a people under seige, and which supply approx 65% of their essential needs. If there was no blockade then threre'd be no tunnels.

Just to be clear, and I fully expect a litany of links refuting what I say, but the tunnels into Israel were not made to smuggle supplies. Those tunnels had very different goals.
The tunnels into Egypt were built to smuggle in and resupply the essential needs of the residents of Gaza.

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul said:

Hamas has a VERY bad track record as far as violating cease-fires go.

Did you just say that because it sounded good?

Leezestarr313

In German we say the sound makes the music. What I notice in here is that there is no real discussion because everytime somebody says something that is not supported by a portion of the posters, they get shut down by belittling comments. I see the motivation, I see the anger, I am angry too about this whole thing. But in my opinion it won't help the cause at all if people communicate like this. Somebody said earlier all the pro-Israel people went away from the thread. That is probably true, but can you blame them? This in here is a very one-sided discussion. This is not how to debate properly. If you want to have a mature discussion, you don't shove your own opinion which you think is superior to everybody else's down other people's throats. You are all smart adults.

Peace.

Byrnzie

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/aug/01/gaza-crisis-israel-palestinians-ceasefire-begins-live-updates
The persistently high civilian death toll in Gaza has raised questions among military analysts and humanitarian law experts over the quality of training of Israeli gunners and their rules of engagement in such heavily populated areas, writes Julian Borger, the Guardian’s diplomatic editor. He quotes Amnesty International’s Donatella Rovera.

“Reckless targeting is a recurring problem, and the hand-wringing and words of regret no longer have any value. If you are making the same mistakes again and again, you would hope something is being learned,” she said, adding there was no sign of any disciplinary action for IDF mistakes that kill civilians. “There is no pattern of anyone being held to account, and impunity just leads to more reckless behaviour.”

Byrnzie

EdsonNascimento said:

People like Byrnzie don't even read anything pertaining to peace. We're just all ready to react.

I'm done.

No, of course I don't, which is why for the past 20 or so years I've been calling for Israel to be made to comply with international law, and for the peaceful settlement that's accepted by the whole World and vetoed by the U.S, to be implemented.

Byrnzie

backseatLover12 said:

I'll add this. (last time)

Some peaceful protesters in the late '60s became so hard headed and angry about the war, they started making their own war: making bombs in their basements to combat pro-war folks. Really? Using violence to combat violence? That is exactly what that post about being "anti-war" by being against war yet pro anger, and inevitably pro-war. You CAN'T SOLVE VIOLENCE WITH VIOLENCE.

Wake up folks, the only way to combat war is through empathy, understanding, dropping the pride, ego and issues we have in order to save mankind. Learn from each other, solve our issues and what Eddie said: "LOVE, LOVE, LOVE."

How many bombs were exploded during the anti-Vietnam protests of the 60's? None. Seriously, do you just make this stuff up because it sounds good?

The Vietnam war was not brought to an end by hippies sitting around hugging each other and talking about love. The Vietnam was war largely brought to an end by massive protests, some of which turned violent - like Kent State, where the National Guard shot and killed two student protestors.

Byrnzie

brianlux said:

if someone says something you truly believe is wrong do you call them a liar or do you say, "I'm sorry but I believe you are greatly mistaken"? A person can be greatly mistaken yet not be lying. So instead of taking the more aggressive approach and discussing we get here, time and again, personal attacks.

Or maybe if people just stuck to the facts instead of posting their own personal beliefs and opinions, and Fox News and IDF talking points, then we wouldn't have a problem in the first place.

The problem as I see it isn't that there's any hate here, as some of you like to keep mentioning, but that there's too much bullshit.
Stick to the facts, and then we can have an honest discussion about the reality of the situation. If people quit posting bullshit then we can avoid having to counter their bullshit and run the risk of them being offended. The facts are not difficult to come by. We all have computers, so what's the excuse?
And before someone wants to get smart and point out that I posted some info which claimed that Israeli tanks broke the ceasefire, that was actually the news which was coming out approx two-three hours before the reports of the kidnapping of the IDF soldier.

musicsam3

Byrnzie said:

PJ_Soul said:

Hamas has a VERY bad track record as far as violating cease-fires go.

Did you just say that because it sounded good?

So if someone says that ALL of these numbers should be 0, then there is
in some way something wrong with that person? Or that opinion?
Just trying to figure out how real human beings are missing the point
by such a large margin here…

Byrnzie

Bentleyspop said:

Just to be clear, and I fully expect a litany of links refuting what I say, but the tunnels into Israel were not made to smuggle supplies. Those tunnels had very different goals.
The tunnels into Egypt were built to smuggle in and resupply the essential needs of the residents of Gaza.

That doesn't stop the media referring to all of the tunnels as 'terror tunnels' though, does it?

Also, how many terrorist attacks have actually taken place from these tunnels? The Hamas/Al Qassam fighters only target the IDF, which they are entitled to do. That's not terrorism. Terrorism is deliberately targeting civilians, as the Israeli's have been doing for the past two weeks.