Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

hedonist

Byrnzie said:

hedonist said:

For the record, I am in no way offended but speaking my mind like anyone else here.

(and never felt the need to hit a button to ignore anyone - I'm a big girl and can handle different opinions. I'll continue to chime in as I hope others will, no matter the view.)

Have you ever heard of something called 'books' hedonist? They can be very useful. Some are full of interesting information and 'facts'.

Whoa whoa whoa...paper with words on 'em and written by real-life people?

Hell's bells!

This is what I was talking about, man. No need to condescend.

So maybe back to non-personal shit.

brianlux

I'm really curious as to how someone here keeps getting away with saying that the comments of other is here are "bullshit". Personally, at this point I would actually prefer to read anyone's "bullshit" rather than see yet another endless cut and past internet article, or twitter or photograph specifically posted to target one's gut emotion. At least bullshit comes out of a living mouth or anus (depending on the meaning of the word) rather than from a few pushed keyboard buttons.

And I wonder: Is it possible to be angry, heated, upset yet at the same time civil? I think so. Let's give that a shot, eh?

badbrains

brianlux said:

I'm really curious as to how someone here keeps getting away with saying that the comments of other is here are "bullshit". Personally, at this point I would actually prefer to read anyone's "bullshit" rather than see yet another endless cut and past internet article, or twitter or photograph specifically posted to target one's gut emotion. At least bullshit comes out of a living mouth or anus (depending on the meaning of the word) rather than from a few pushed keyboard buttons.

And I wonder: Is it possible to be angry, heated, upset yet at the same time civil? I think so. Let's give that a shot, eh?

Wow, didn't expect that Brian. So I shouldn't post pics anymore? I'm assuming that was directed at me about posting pics because I have been posting a shitload of pics in amt, and some In here. And honestly, I've only really gotten into it with RR and BS but RR and I are cool no matter what we may have said in the back and forth. At least I think we are. And if my pics are offensive or you're getting bored with them, maybe don't click on the thread? Not trying to sound like a dick. Just wasn't expecting that.

brianlux

Not at all badbrains. Images are useful media. They convey more information than words at times. But looking at this thread and others IN GENERAL and seeing so many images and copy and pasted articles with little in the way of well thought out personal comments, it just baffles me that some of us who do try to form a cohesive thought are told we're full of bullshit. You did not do that.

More importantly IN GENERAL, there is just so much animosity here... on a thread that started out talking about being anti-war and trying to get people to work together. Should I take my frustration over this and go pack? I hope you will say, "no."

Byrnzie

hedonist said:

Whoa whoa whoa...paper with words on 'em and written by real-life people?

Hell's bells!

This is what I was talking about, man.

Actually, you were claiming that everything I post is taken from the internet. I said that it isn't. But you refused to accept that.

Byrnzie

brianlux said:

I'm really curious as to how someone here keeps getting away with saying that the comments of other is here are "bullshit".

I'm also really curious to know how some people can get away with labeling another poster a racist, on numerous occasions, and with zero evidence of any racism having been expressed. This thread isn't the first time that PJ Soul has thrown that despicable label at me.
But if I respond to somebody's blatant lying with the word 'bullshit', when they're trying to excuse and justify the mass-murder of civilians, then supposedly you're all shocked and offended?

Reminds me of Obama saying that Hamas killing IDF soldiers is "despicable", whilst at the same time he authorizes a new multi-Million $$ arms shipment to the Israeli's so they can murder more babies.

Such is the World we live in.

brianlux

I think you all know I'm not in favor of name calling and I don't like having my opinions labeled as bullshit. Simple enough? Thanks.

Aafke

I think it's sad that a threat starting out as a pledge for peace, ends up in a war of words. I get the feeling that most people in this discussion are not in it to listen to each other but just to give a reply. That, in my opinion, is the problem of most of our 'communication' we don't listen to what the other person is saying, we just get worked up over the things we assume the other is saying and pick a fight.

You see it happening all over the world at the moment, people do present facts that contradict themselves, facts can be twisted, and are twisted at the moment, it all depends on the point of view, in which you are looking at them. I don't know the 'true' if there is any, so I WILL NOT PICK A SIDE. which probable makes me an enemy of both sides...

The only thing which in my opinion is not debatable is the point, that in every war there is immense human suffering on both sides.. In this conflict in particulate both sides blame the opposite side as the offender, and see themselves forced into defense. And we all get forced into choosing sides. and by choosing sides we just keep up fueling this war. Both sides have done horrible things, in the name of justice, so I think both sides are to blame in this conflict, but also on both sides there are examples of deep human empathy, War brings out the worse and best in people. Lets not focus on the differences in this, or any other fight. Lets look at the common grounds... "It hurts no matter which side the bombs are falling on..."

Let's fight together for peace!!!

Byrnzie

So far 1500 Palestinians killed - approx 80-90% of them civilians, and 66 Israelis have been killed - 3 of them civilians.

One side has been engaged in a 47 year old illegal occupation and encroaching land-grab, possesses one of the Worlds most advanced military machines, and is supported by the Worlds only Superpower, which supplies it with billions of dollars of military aid and a rubber stamp at the U.N with which to perpetuate its crimes, including multiple war crimes, such as the deliberate targeting of civilians and medical personnel, the bombing of schools, hospitals, children's playgrounds, and U.N safe houses.

The other side has no army, no navy, and no air-force. It consists mostly of a defenseless civilian population.

But you say hat both sides are equally to blame?

And you say "Let's fight together for peace!!"

It's not possible to fight for peace without some basic understanding of the fundamental realities of the conflict.

Byrnzie

By claiming that both sides are to blame and that we're essentially looking at a level playing field, they'll be no peace - just a perpetuation of ignorance, the narrative of the oppressor, with all of its attendant lies, and further oppression and violence.

jumbojet

Byrnzie said:

So far 1500 Palestinians killed - approx 80-90% of them civilians, and 66 Israelis have been killed - 3 of them civilians.

One side has been engaged in a 47 year old illegal occupation and encroaching land-grab, possesses one of the Worlds most advanced military machines, and is supported by the Worlds only Superpower, which supplies it with billions of dollars of military aid and a rubber stamp at the U.N with which to perpetuate its crimes, including multiple war crimes, such as the deliberate targeting of civilians and medical personnel, the bombing of schools, hospitals, children's playgrounds, and U.N safe houses.

The other side has no army, no navy, and no air-force. It consists mostly of a defenseless civilian population.

But you say hat both sides are equally to blame?

And you say "Let's fight together for peace!!"

It's not possible to fight for peace without some basic understanding of the fundamental realities of the conflict.


In the midst of a lot of noise at this thread, this looks like one useful, informative wrap-up of the situation, undeniably based on gathered facts, IMO.

Thank you for this. I really hope there will be found a way to stop this unjust reality, taking place right in front of the world.

rr165892

Leezestarr313 said:

In German we say the sound makes the music. What I notice in here is that there is no real discussion because everytime somebody says something that is not supported by a portion of the posters, they get shut down by belittling comments. I see the motivation, I see the anger, I am angry too about this whole thing. But in my opinion it won't help the cause at all if people communicate like this. Somebody said earlier all the pro-Israel people went away from the thread. That is probably true, but can you blame them? This in here is a very one-sided discussion. This is not how to debate properly. If you want to have a mature discussion, you don't shove your own opinion which you think is superior to everybody else's down other people's throats. You are all smart adults.

Peace.

Smarts like This is why you guys win in soccer.good post

rr165892

badbrains said:

brianlux said:

I'm really curious as to how someone here keeps getting away with saying that the comments of other is here are "bullshit". Personally, at this point I would actually prefer to read anyone's "bullshit" rather than see yet another endless cut and past internet article, or twitter or photograph specifically posted to target one's gut emotion. At least bullshit comes out of a living mouth or anus (depending on the meaning of the word) rather than from a few pushed keyboard buttons.

And I wonder: Is it possible to be angry, heated, upset yet at the same time civil? I think so. Let's give that a shot, eh?

Wow, didn't expect that Brian. So I shouldn't post pics anymore? I'm assuming that was directed at me about posting pics because I have been posting a shitload of pics in amt, and some In here. And honestly, I've only really gotten into it with RR and BS but RR and I are cool no matter what we may have said in the back and forth. At least I think we are. And if my pics are offensive or you're getting bored with them, maybe don't click on the thread? Not trying to sound like a dick. Just wasn't expecting that.

Still cool pal.I don't agree with every position you have or see eye to eyeing everything but we will still drink and rock out together.Shit you were buying,remember.

rr165892

This is like a good hockey game.Beat the shit out of each other,bloody our faces,throw some blows,each of us gets a shot in here or there,but when all is done a hand shake,ass smack maybe a little hug and a lot of respect.

dignin

rr165892 said:

This is like a good hockey game.Beat the shit out of each other,bloody our faces,throw some blows,each of us gets a shot in here or there,but when all is done a hand shake,ass smack maybe a little hug and a lot of respect.

I don't agree with you on everything rr.....but I like the cut of your jib.

dignin

Byrnzie said:

So far 1500 Palestinians killed - approx 80-90% of them civilians, and 66 Israelis have been killed - 3 of them civilians.

One side has been engaged in a 47 year old illegal occupation and encroaching land-grab, possesses one of the Worlds most advanced military machines, and is supported by the Worlds only Superpower, which supplies it with billions of dollars of military aid and a rubber stamp at the U.N with which to perpetuate its crimes, including multiple war crimes, such as the deliberate targeting of civilians and medical personnel, the bombing of schools, hospitals, children's playgrounds, and U.N safe houses.

The other side has no army, no navy, and no air-force. It consists mostly of a defenseless civilian population.

But you say hat both sides are equally to blame?

And you say "Let's fight together for peace!!"

It's not possible to fight for peace without some basic understanding of the fundamental realities of the conflict.


Clear and to the point. Not much to argue about here.

rr165892

Note to Byrnzie,
You may want to get back to getting into with us "less educated folks" on here.I think you may have your hands full w/These forms version of Charlie's angels(Hedonist,PJSoul,Leezestarr).
Some great back and forth.Very entertaining(Yes I realize the subject matter is not)

Aafke

Looking for the differences...If I'm not with you, so I must be against you... Lack of communication, just replying, without reading my statements.. On all my points Byrnzie ... On every argument you give me, I have a valet answer, but that doesn't mean, I disagree at all with you over the subject... You amuse I don't know enough about the conflict... big assumptions... I know more than you know, just don't agree with you blindly, also a thing both sides have in common.... I won't give more arguments because many have given them before, and the opposite site just doesn't want to listen, to any argument that doesn't fit there case, both sides don't want peace.. they just want to be right...How one earth is it possible to end this war? ... I rest my case...

Byrnzie

Aafke said:

both sides don't want peace.. they just want to be right....

Bullshit. (Yeah, that word again)

Have you actually read anything that I've posted?

Byrnzie

Can I take a quick time-out to recommend a book for some of the people posting in this thread?



PDF: http://www.stoa.org.uk/topics/bullshit/pdf/on-bullshit.pdf

'One of the most salient features of our culture is that there is so much bullshit. Everyone knows this. Each of us contributes his share. But we tend to take the situation for granted. Most people are rather confident of their ability to recognize bullshit and to avoid being taken in by it. So the phenomenon has not aroused much deliberate concern. We have no clear understanding of what bullshit is, why there is so much of it, or what functions it serves. And we lack a conscientiously developed appreciation of what it means to us. In other words, as Harry Frankfurt writes, "we have no theory."

Frankfurt, one of the world's most influential moral philosophers, attempts to build such a theory here. With his characteristic combination of philosophical acuity, psychological insight, and wry humor, Frankfurt proceeds by exploring how bullshit and the related concept of humbug are distinct from lying. He argues that bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant. Frankfurt concludes that although bullshit can take many innocent forms, excessive indulgence in it can eventually undermine the practitioner's capacity to tell the truth in a way that lying does not. Liars at least acknowledge that it matters what is true. By virtue of this, Frankfurt writes, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are.'


“Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstance require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about.” - Harry G. Frankfurt

"Recognizing truth requires selflessness. You have to leave yourself out of it so you can find out the way things are in themselves, not the way they look to you or how you feel about them or how you would like them to be" - Harry G. Frankfurt