Believe it or not, I hear you guys and your anger, and believe it or not I hope for a peaceful two state solution. But when you post material that's absolutely, completely one-sided and refuse to criticize Hamas when it cynically manipulates and endangers its own citizens, you're undermining reasonable discourse. Worst of all is the blinders-on type criticism of Israel when 133,000 Palestinians were massacred in Yarmouk, Syria over the past year. It's like people are shocked and appalled by Palestinian deaths as long as they can pin them on Israel. Brutal.
Again, for the 1000 time, ones a fucken civil war and the other is an occupation. If u can't tell the difference, maybe u should stay out of the conversation. And I've been to syria 3 times in the last 5 years minus when all this shit started.
This isn't the first time someone hear has told another they should stay out of the conversation if the have a differing opinion. Is that really the kind of forum you want here? Sounds a bit fascist to me.
She or he can continue to post whatever they want. I could care less if they want to look like idiots when they post shit. Come on brian, really bro, 180,000 Palestinians killed in syria? And someone posted a link stating that it's less then 3000. I find it odd that you would respond to my post about her staying out of the conversation but not the blatant lie she posted. My priority is trying to find and share the truth, and if it has me calling someone out as a liar or telling someone to stay out of the conversation if they dnt know what they are talking about, so be it. I'm sorry I'm not the type to just say peace this peace that. That shit isn't working web tho it's a nice jester.
There are plenty of sources indicating the number of killed is over 100K and the number displaced is over 200k. Let's say it's only 3000, which it's not. That's still more than Israel. Why is your outrage repeatedly, exhaustively pointed in only one direction?
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,792
Believe it or not, I hear you guys and your anger, and believe it or not I hope for a peaceful two state solution. But when you post material that's absolutely, completely one-sided and refuse to criticize Hamas when it cynically manipulates and endangers its own citizens, you're undermining reasonable discourse. Worst of all is the blinders-on type criticism of Israel when 133,000 Palestinians were massacred in Yarmouk, Syria over the past year. It's like people are shocked and appalled by Palestinian deaths as long as they can pin them on Israel. Brutal.
Again, for the 1000 time, ones a fucken civil war and the other is an occupation. If u can't tell the difference, maybe u should stay out of the conversation. And I've been to syria 3 times in the last 5 years minus when all this shit started.
This isn't the first time someone hear has told another they should stay out of the conversation if the have a differing opinion. Is that really the kind of forum you want here? Sounds a bit fascist to me.
She or he can continue to post whatever they want. I could care less if they want to look like idiots when they post shit. Come on brian, really bro, 180,000 Palestinians killed in syria? And someone posted a link stating that it's less then 3000. I find it odd that you would respond to my post about her staying out of the conversation but not the blatant lie she posted. My priority is trying to find and share the truth, and if it has me calling someone out as a liar or telling someone to stay out of the conversation if they dnt know what they are talking about, so be it. I'm sorry I'm not the type to just say peace this peace that. That shit isn't working web tho it's a nice jester.
I understand your point of view, badbrains. My comment has more to do with the aggressive almost bullying posturing of posts like the one I responded to. Everyone has a right to post what they think here. You or I or anyone here may think another person is full of shit but we do not have the right to tell someone else they should not post here unless they are attacking another poster and that is for the mods to deal with. Besides, aggressive attacking posts on a thread that was originally (this is SO often forgotten) about being anti-war is very ironic and yet this thread has become a war between forum members As for lies- there is a difference between being misinformed and lying. I don't know if this person is actually lying.
But hey, I'm not the forum cop. Carry on.
I need to go to work so won't have time to further reply- not ignoring you!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Believe it or not, I hear you guys and your anger, and believe it or not I hope for a peaceful two state solution. But when you post material that's absolutely, completely one-sided and refuse to criticize Hamas when it cynically manipulates and endangers its own citizens, you're undermining reasonable discourse. Worst of all is the blinders-on type criticism of Israel when 133,000 Palestinians were massacred in Yarmouk, Syria over the past year. It's like people are shocked and appalled by Palestinian deaths as long as they can pin them on Israel. Brutal.
Again, for the 1000 time, ones a fucken civil war and the other is an occupation. If u can't tell the difference, maybe u should stay out of the conversation. And I've been to syria 3 times in the last 5 years minus when all this shit started.
See this is the kind of logic that actually exposes the lack of humanity of the side of people who are more interested in denouncing Israel than looking for a change that saves lives in the region. Because it's a civil war we're supposed to be less concerned even though more people are dying? You guys are full of shit.
I took my shit this morning so your wrong on that. And my how we forget how many fucken Americans died in their civil war? 500,000????? No mam/man, you're full of shit
That was 150 years ago. It'd be nice to think the international community has evolved a bit since then and civil wars that kill hundreds and thousands of people aren't just ignored. Selective outrage is bullshit and is insincere. Either you care about people's well-being or you don't.
That was 150 years ago. It'd be nice to think the international community has evolved a bit since then and civil wars that kill hundreds and thousands of people aren't just ignored. Selective outrage is bullshit and is insincere. Either you care about people's well-being or you don't.
Evolved a bit? Shit, it's 2014 and the Palestinians are living in an open air prison. Women/children are being killed indiscriminately. Idf soldiers bragging about it. In this day and age, this is what our world has evolved to. Killing, it's what god wants right? Smh
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
What a mess, anger turned on each other. How constructive is that? Who can hear over the baying?
If civility is too much to ask no matter the points being made, what's the point?
I have to share this story. Someone, NOT on this board called me anti-Semite. What was his logic? He said because, and here's where I almost shit my pants from laughing so hard, MLK made a comment about,"if you don't support Zionism, then that makes you an anti-Semite." That is what I was told. So I guess all the people who dnt support Zionism are anti-Semites even tho Arabs are Semites to. Awesome
There are some bullies on this forum who refuse to consider other viewpoints besides Israel = evil. I'm standing up to them. If the bullies would consider a viewpoint along the lines of Israel = flawed, I'd engage in a more relaxed way.
Palestinians living in open air prisons is bad in Gaza and in Yarmouk. Let's engage in all conflicts where civilians are at risk with equal passion.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,007
Are you really gonna tell me with a straight face that Israel has killed more Palestinians in the past year than Syria?
Again, I am critical of Israel in lots of ways. But the refusal of people like you to give voice to what's happening to Palestinians outside Gaza makes me wonder if you're more invested in Palestinian well-being or discrediting Israel. The way you engage with what's happening in the Middle East is simplistic and not helpful for anyone, least of all the people you purport to support.
well, to be truthful, PART of this problem is that there are Palestinians OUTSIDE of Palestine to begin with. Not by choice either.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The Syrian point is a legitimate one. Particularly so in this thread that is about the staggering number of conflicts around the globe, not just the situation in Gaza. Civil war or not, the ongoing loss of life there is tragic.
Ok but how far back are you gonna go historically? 1948? The partition plan of 47? We need to deal with what's in front of us now, in all areas of the Mideast.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,007
Ok but how far back are you gonna go historically? 1948? The partition plan of 47? We need to deal with what's in front of us now, in all areas of the Mideast.
If partition is at the heart of this then, yeah, we need to go back that far. YOU raised the fact the Palestinians have died in Syria. So it really begs the question WHY are they there to begin with. They have no place to go after being forcably removed from THEIR historical homes. CAn you imagine that? GENERATIONS spent in a refuge camp. Where are the settlements for THEM so they can return to their homeland?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I'm with you man. It's brutal. The partition plan in 47 was accepted by Israel and rejected by Palestine, which called for two states. The quote during the 48 war was "we will drive the Jews into the sea." Didn't exactly turn out that way.
There are some bullies on this forum who refuse to consider other viewpoints besides Israel = evil. I'm standing up to them. If the bullies would consider a viewpoint along the lines of Israel = flawed, I'd engage in a more relaxed way.
Palestinians living in open air prisons is bad in Gaza and in Yarmouk. Let's engage in all conflicts where civilians are at risk with equal passion.
I actually have been to yarmouk and have friends there. I've spent many nights there watching champion league games with my Palestinian friends. And I've also had 2 friends die in the conflict from yarmouk. Gaza and yarmouk are alike NOW, but in the past, I'd have ZERO problem walking on 30th street in yarmouk with all the Palestinians there. Even fucken played on a soccer team from the coffee shop with them. I ate shawarma with them, smoked hookah and even got into a brawl with them against another team. It was comical, a team full of brown Palestinians and a white circassian playing soccer in yarmouk. And guess what, NOT ONE OF THEM TRIED TO KILL ME. All they did was offer me food, shelter, rides anywhere I wanted to go. You couldn't have been with any nicer people. For a group of people living in a shelter, they sure do have huge open arms for all.
Ok but how far back are you gonna go historically? 1948? The partition plan of 47? We need to deal with what's in front of us now, in all areas of the Mideast.
So let's forget about the past and concentrate on the now? Ok, I'm down with that, as long as Israel stops shoving the holocaust down my throat every time they feel a need to remind us all.
With you there man. Jews need to get over the holocaust a bit.
personally not asking they "get over it a bit". they shouldnt forget, nor should anyone else, BUT it no longer is cool to use it (like it ever was) as some sort of guilt weapon to excuse bad behavior.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Nope. I'm talking real. The holocaust was brutal, the worst, all that. It also totally traumatized two or three generations of Jews and it's the responsibility of the younger generation to try and move beyond that trauma, as badbrains was saying
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Big difference between moving past it and getting over it. Yeesh.
At some point even the worst things have to be let go of. Otherwise there's no hope for going forward
Fair enough - I get a bit prickly when "get over it" is applied to such heaviness. Of course one should try to learn, heal and evolve from it but looking back at history isn't tantamount to living in the past. I'll never lose sight of what my family went through and lost, and know I'm here today because of that horrific time.
Continue to speak out!
(and I rarely look at or care about the number of one's posts)
dancinacrossthewater, why don't you actually respond to my posts instead of trying to deflect and talk about Syria? You demanded someone respond to the bullshit article you posted, and I did. Do you have anything substantive to add to the discussion on Israel and Palestine, or do you want to keep making up numbers about how somehow more Palestinians died in the SYRIAN civil war than Syrians, lol
Maybe there's something to be said about Israel's oppression of the Palestinian people being a focus when the US is the one supplying Israel with $4bn a year in military aid, as well as providing them cover in the UN Security Council. On the other hand the Syrian conflict is actually just a proxy war being fought out by many sides including Israel. If you want to talk about substantive change someone in the West can institute, it's an end to support for Israel, given that it is what has allowed this 66-year long ethnic cleansing and occupation to go on. Te tactic to divert attention to Syria is one employed by zionists as they did with Darfur years ago. It's disgusting to exploit another people's suffering to cover your own oppression, and to also accuse those critical of Israel as anti-Semitic ("you got something against Jews?!")
I said more Palestinians died in the Syrian civil war than in Gaza over the last year. That's not deflection, that's a fact. It doesn't excuse what Israel's doing, but if you only get worked up about Palestinians when something happens in Gaza, you're full of shit
Comments
But hey, I'm not the forum cop. Carry on.
I need to go to work so won't have time to further reply- not ignoring you!
If civility is too much to ask no matter the points being made, what's the point?
(bring back the dancing hot dog!)
Palestinians living in open air prisons is bad in Gaza and in Yarmouk. Let's engage in all conflicts where civilians are at risk with equal passion.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Carry on, carry on.
Continue to speak out!
(and I rarely look at or care about the number of one's posts)
Show some fucking humility.