Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

brianlux

Yeah, like I said earlier- it's about us.
Hair... oh fuck, now I KNOW I never was a hippie. Hahaha! A bit shaggy at times but, good gawd! Gimme some Minutemen! Quick! LOL!
Well, it's like this- if it's a comedy, laugh. If it's a tear-jerker, cry. When it's horrors and death showing their ugly faces, make yourself big and roar back (or talk in a calm, low voice if it's a skunk).
But when peace comes 'round, I get on it, right now.

dignin

Israel needs more bombs for peace. USA says no problem. More of Americans hard earned tax dollars at work.



US supplies Israel with bombs amid Gaza blitz
Pentagon says Israel allowed to tap local US arms stockpile in past week to resupply it with grenades and mortar rounds.




http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/us-supplies-israel-with-bombs-amid-gaza-blitz-2014730233016747143.html

Byrnzie

Your hard-earned tax dollars at work. But you're right; there's no point in getting angry. It's best to do nothing and be calm and peaceful whilst your tax dollars are paying for babies to be murdered by racists. Go back to sleep America.






http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-un-accuses-israel-of-possible-war-crime-after-shelling-of-one-of-its-schools-kills-19-9638765.html

Faiza Al-Tanboura had not spoken for 21 days since a missile strike destroyed her home. In the early hours of this morning she found her voice: “The children. Don't let them kill the children,” she shouted as she ran out into the playground of a UN school under Israeli tank fire.

Today's attack on the Jabaliya Elementary Girls School has been described as a possible war crime by the UN. The Israeli authorities, it said, had been told no less than 17 times that it was full of refugees, the last warning message delivered on 8.50 on Tuesday evening.

But, seven and half hours later, a series of shells smashed into the building, destroying two of the classrooms, killing 19 and injuring more than a hundred others. Pierre Krahenbuhl, the commissioner for UN agency for Palestinian refugees, described the killings as “a source of universal shame”. Investigations clearly showed, he maintained, that Israeli fire was to blame, condemning “in the strongest possible terms this serious violation of international law by Israeli forces.”

...those at the school had been placed in the line of fire after they “were instructed to leave their homes by the Israeli military. The precise location of the school and that it was housing thousands of people was communicated to the Israeli army 17 times to ensure its protection.”

Byrnzie

brianlux said:

Well, it's like this- if it's a comedy, laugh. If it's a tear-jerker, cry. When it's horrors and death showing their ugly faces, make yourself big and roar back (or talk in a calm, low voice if it's a skunk).
But when peace comes 'round, I get on it, right now.

I can't hear you roaring dude. There ain't no peace as we speak.

Byrnzie

WhatYouTaughtMe

Byrnzie said:

Your hard-earned tax dollars at work. But you're right; there's no point in getting angry. It's best to do nothing and be calm and peaceful whilst your tax dollars are paying for babies to be murdered by racists. Go back to sleep America.






http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-un-accuses-israel-of-possible-war-crime-after-shelling-of-one-of-its-schools-kills-19-9638765.html

Faiza Al-Tanboura had not spoken for 21 days since a missile strike destroyed her home. In the early hours of this morning she found herice: “The children. Don't let them kill the children,” she shouted as she ran out into the playground of a UN school under Israeli tank fire.

Today's attack on the Jabaliya Elementary Girls School has been described as a possible war crime by the UN. The Israeli authorities, it said, had been told no less than 17 times that it was full of refugees, the last warning message delivered on 8.50 on Tuesday evening.

But, seven and half hours later, a series of shells smashed into the building, destroying two of the classrooms, killing 19 and injuring more than a hundred others. Pierre Krahenbuhl, the commissioner for UN agency for Palestinian refugees, described the killings as “a source of universal shame”. Investigations clearly showed, he maintained, that Israeli fire was to blame, condemning “in the strongest possible terms this serious violation of international law by Israeli forces.”

...those at the school had been placed in the line of fire after they “were instructed to leave their homes by the Israeli military. The precise location of the school and that it was housing thousands of people was communicated to the Israeli army 17 times to ensure its protection.”

It's really unfair to just assume the people posting about peace are doing nothing. You keep mentioning U.S. tax dollars supplying Israel and we do nothing. Do you have some sort of first hand knowledge about every single member posting on here? How would you possibly know we aren't writing our representatives and allowing our voices to be heard? Some people don't need to beat their chest and shout to the rooftops on a rock bands forum. I agree this is beyond tragic and angers me just as much as anyone. I share in your anger, I also feel you come off as combative and are less likely to have people listen to you because of it. This thread was started with a blanket statement of peace no matter what was said at Milton Keyes. It has become a sounding board for you saying people aren't doing anything. I am all for raising awareness and helping people educate themselves through other means than mainstream bullshit media, but when you approach it in such an aggressive way, it can turn people off.

Byrnzie

How can anybody be silent in the face of this slaughter? How can those who's tax dollars are paying for this carnage, and who's politicians are supporting it and encouraging it, have the audacity to criticize those who are speaking out and protesting it, and, God forbid, getting angry?

You remember reading about all those good honest German citizens during WWII who used to watch the cattle cars rolling by and who chose to say nothing?

Funny how some things never change.

Byrnzie

UN spokesman breaks down talking about Gaza child deaths: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/gaza/11001631/UN-spokesman-breaks-down-talking-about-Gaza-child-deaths.html

Byrnzie

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

This thread was started with a blanket statement of peace no matter what was said at Milton Keyes. It has become a sounding board for you saying people aren't doing anything. I am all for raising awareness and helping people educate themselves through other means than mainstream bullshit media, but when you approach it in such an aggressive way, it can turn people off.

That's funny, because I only joined this thread on page 14 after somebody told me they were taking a lot of shit from an apologist of Israel and wanted my help. This thread turned into a platform for people trying to excuse, justify, or close their eyes to the massacre, long before I began posting here.

Anyway, let's make it all about me again.

WhatYouTaughtMe

Byrnzie said:

How can anybody be silent in the face of this slaughter? How can those who's tax dollars are paying for this carnage, and who's politicians are supporting it and encouraging it, have the audacity to criticize those who are speaking out and protesting it, and, God forbid, getting angry?

You remember reading about all those good honest German citizens during WWII who used to watch the cattle cars rolling by and who chose to say nothing?

Funny how some things never change.

Again, you are assuming that everyday citizens aren't trying to affect a change. You have to differentiate between the U.S. government and it's citizens. To say that people aren't trying to do anything is an unfair statement to make.

brianlux

Byrnzie said:

brianlux said:

Well, it's like this- if it's a comedy, laugh. If it's a tear-jerker, cry. When it's horrors and death showing their ugly faces, make yourself big and roar back (or talk in a calm, low voice if it's a skunk).
But when peace comes 'round, I get on it, right now.

I can't hear you roaring dude. There ain't no peace as we speak.

Squeak!

WhatYouTaughtMe

I've read the entire thread since it started and was just stating what I feel it has become, not all the points in between. Anyways, peace be with you. I will keep doing my thing and put pressure and hope for an end to this nonsense. Don't lump all Americans in with the choices our government makes. It became apparent to me a long time ago that our government doesn't really give a shit about our views on foreign policy.

Byrnzie

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

Again, you are assuming that everyday citizens aren't trying to affect a change. You have to differentiate between the U.S. government and it's citizens. To say that people aren't trying to do anything is an unfair statement to make.

Well, that's not the impression I get from reading people's posts.

backseatLover12 said:

WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE EAST. But we can handle how we treat each other

backseatLover12 said:

Both sides have to give up ego, being "right", and their pride for any solutions to ever happen. So let it go, people!! When we get old, will we look back and say that we were open minded and accepted others for being different? Or will we look back and regret all the anger we had because our egos and pride were too precious to mess with? And where do egos and pride get us anyway in the long run? A lot of disconnection from other people, a lot of unhappiness, and a lot of war.

Seriously, what a crock of shit.

And every other comment being about my 'anger'. Sure, because we shouldn't get angry when thousands are being massacred with U.S tax dollars and U.S political support - 90% of them civilians, including approx 350 children.

No, don't get angry. Anger is bad for you. Just talk about peace and love instead, and do nothing.

Actually, this kind of apathy disgusts me.

WhatYouTaughtMe

Byrnzie said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

Again, you are assuming that everyday citizens aren't trying to affect a change. You have to differentiate between the U.S. government and it's citizens. To say that people aren't trying to do anything is an unfair statement to make.

Well, that's not the impression I get from reading people's posts.

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE EAST. But we can handle how we treat each other

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

Both sides have to give up ego, being "right", and their pride for any solutions to ever happen. So let it go, people!! When we get old, will we look back and say that we were open minded and accepted others for being different? Or will we look back and regret all the anger we had because our egos and pride were too precious to mess with? And where do egos and pride get us anyway in the long run? A lot of disconnection from other people, a lot of unhappiness, and a lot of war.

Seriously, what a crock of shit.

And every other comment being about my 'anger'. Sure, because we shouldn't get angry when thousands are being massacred with U.S tax dollars and U.S political support - 90% of them civilians, including approx 350 children.

No, don't get angry. Anger is bad for you. Just talk about peace and love instead, and do nothing.

Actually, this kind of apathy disgusts me.

Those second two quotes are attributed to me, but I didn't write them.
Edit - thanks for correcting that.

Byrnzie

Thank God not everybody follows the advice of 'backseatLover12'.

Many people are standing up to this atrocity and letting their voices be heard.


Bolivia has declared Israel to be a “terrorist state” and renounced a visa exemption agreement with the country in protest over the ongoing Israeli military offense in Gaza which already killed more than 1,300 dead and left over 7,000 wounded.

http://rt.com/news/176852-bolivia-israel-terrorist-state/

Bolivia declares Israel ‘terrorist state’, scraps visa exemption agreement
July 30, 2014

Canceling the 1972 agreement which allowed Israelis to travel freely to Bolivia “means, in other words, we are declaring (Israel) a terrorist state,” the country's President Evo Morales announced.

Morales explained that Operation Protective edge clearly shows that “Israel is not a guarantor of the principles of respect for life and the elementary precepts of rights that govern the peaceful and harmonious coexistence of our international community.”

...Other Latin American countries including Chile and El Salvador recalled their ambassadors in Israel on Tuesday for consultations due to the increased violence in the Gaza Strip against civilians. The move follows similar actions by Ecuador, Brazil and Peru who have also recalled their ambassadors.

Byrnzie

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

I've read the entire thread since it started and was just stating what I feel it has become, not all the points in between. Anyways, peace be with you. I will keep doing my thing and put pressure and hope for an end to this nonsense. Don't lump all Americans in with the choices our government makes. It became apparent to me a long time ago that our government doesn't really give a shit about our views on foreign policy.

True, but you can make a difference. Write to the fuckers. Boycott Israeli goods. Confront Israel's army of paid liars on internet chat rooms and comments sections. And if there's a demo in town, then join 'em.

jumbojet

Kat said:

Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War.
July 16 2014

With about a dozen assorted ongoing conflicts in the news everyday, and with the stories
becoming more horrific, the level of sadness becomes unbearable.

War hurts. It hurts no matter which sides the bombs are falling on.

I don’t know how to reconcile the peaceful rainbow of flags we see
each night at our concerts with the daily news of a dozen global
conflicts and their horrific consequences. I don’t know how to
process the feeling of guilt and complicity when I hear about the
deaths of a civilian family from a U.S. drone strike.

In the light of Eddie's words explicitly being about "a dozen global conflicts" and "the level of sadness" they cause; we can safely say that the discussion in this forum has been unfairly tilted towards the Gaza conflict.

This, I think, should be a result of the political factors the Gazan conflict involves. So the discussion here is mostly derived from the political factors beneath, not really the humanitarian reasons.

Meanwhile; the Russia-Ukraine conflict, for example, contains most of the elements of the Gaza conflict. Nearly equal death toll, civilian involvement, implicit US involvement with its tax-money and much more with downing of airplanes included...

But it doesnt get much attention here as it doesnt seem to provoke any of the political motivations; which Gaza conflict does.

I would say, I hope we read Eddie's words again and again. I am glad that he choose to state his concerns above one conflict of the current global state; but he choose to underline the call for peace, overall. (as hippie as that might sounds)

Byrnzie

The US doesn't give $4 Billion tax dollars to the Ukraine in military aid every year. Also, last time I checked, neither the Russians or Ukrainians were busy slaughtering hundreds of civilians.

badbrains

Byrnzie said:

The US doesn't give $4 Billion tax dollars to the Ukraine in military aid every year. Also, last time I checked, neither the Russians or Ukrainians were busy slaughtering hundreds of civilians.

Exactly. I dnt understand how people can't differentiate between civil wars and occupations. People keep bringing up other conflicts and try to compare the 2. Only thing in common is people being killed.

Byrnzie

Also, the Ukraine have a modern, well equipped military. The Palestinians have nothing of the sort.

There is no comparison.