Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

JimmyV

badbrains said:

JimmyV said:

This conflict dates back much earlier than the murder of those three Israelis and we all know it.

Plus, if we are going to accuse Israel of genocide and slaughter, we should be able to describe what happened to those three as murder. Regardless of who was responsible, it was murder.

No doubt jim. "This" conflict started back when the 2 Palestinians were killed during a protest. Then the 3 Israeli teens were MURDERED by some crap shoot off cell group with ZERO affiliation with Hamas. Israel KNEW they were murdered with hrs of disappearing. Kept quite, invaded gaza "looking for said teens" and hamza responded with firecracker rockets. Fast forward 3 weeks, and this madness is what's left.......oh and how can forget, the "new" Palestinian unity government that formed....

I mean even earlier than that. I am 38 and it has been going on for all of that time and longer.

As for the current flare up specifically, you might be right. I don't honestly know.

PJ_Soul

JimmyV said:

badbrains said:

JimmyV said:

This conflict dates back much earlier than the murder of those three Israelis and we all know it.

Plus, if we are going to accuse Israel of genocide and slaughter, we should be able to describe what happened to those three as murder. Regardless of who was responsible, it was murder.

No doubt jim. "This" conflict started back when the 2 Palestinians were killed during a protest. Then the 3 Israeli teens were MURDERED by some crap shoot off cell group with ZERO affiliation with Hamas. Israel KNEW they were murdered with hrs of disappearing. Kept quite, invaded gaza "looking for said teens" and hamza responded with firecracker rockets. Fast forward 3 weeks, and this madness is what's left.......oh and how can forget, the "new" Palestinian unity government that formed....

I mean even earlier than that. I am 38 and it has been going on for all of that time and longer.

As for the current flare up specifically, you might be right. I don't honestly know.

Yeah, that's how I view it too. This has been going on for years. The recent flare up is the same old shit, different month. There is always some reason for one side or the other to start lobbing bombs and rejecting cease fires, etc.

BS44325

badbrains said:

eldarion75 said:

It's been all but proven that Hamas had nothing to do with those 3 deaths, but the IDF ran with it as an excuse for a weapons test and continuation of the israeli expansion agenda via ongoing murder of civilians

It's almost like everything conveniently worked out for Israel, 3 dead Israeli teens. Reason to invade again.....

The rockets and tunnels helped too.

brianlux

I'm still going with what Ed said and promoting this thought, no matter how much ya'all want to talk about war here: I’m Still Anti-War.

deftones

There are more than 1000 Palestinians dead, most of them innocent people. There's a professional army bombing schools, houses, is this an anti-Israel propaganda? Stop that madness now!

deftones

badbrains said:

eldarion75 said:

It's been all but proven that Hamas had nothing to do with those 3 deaths, but the IDF ran with it as an excuse for a weapons test and continuation of the israeli expansion agenda via ongoing murder of civilians

It's almost like everything conveniently worked out for Israel, 3 dead Israeli teens. Reason to invade again.....

eldarion75

thats it exactly..all set up so they can continue their illegal expansion and slaughter..

badbrains

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

eldarion75 said:

It's been all but proven that Hamas had nothing to do with those 3 deaths, but the IDF ran with it as an excuse for a weapons test and continuation of the israeli expansion agenda via ongoing murder of civilians

It's almost like everything conveniently worked out for Israel, 3 dead Israeli teens. Reason to invade again.....

The rockets and tunnels helped too.

Oh the firecrackers and tunnels? The tunnels that Israel KNEW about for years/months? Those same tunnels all of a sudden became the "problem?" Whatever floats your boat man. Whatever helps you sleep at night in your cozy bed knowing that NO ONE will ever invade or drop bombs on your house.

JimmyV

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

It's been all but proven that Hamas had nothing to do with those 3 deaths, but the IDF ran with it as an excuse for a weapons test and continuation of the israeli expansion agenda via ongoing murder of civilians

Those three murders. Why are the Israelis killed referred to as "deaths" but the Palestinians are victims of murder, massacre, slaughter, etc.?

No answer to this question?

JimmyV

brianlux said:

I'm still going with what Ed said and promoting this thought, no matter how much ya'all want to talk about war here: I’m Still Anti-War.

I respected his acknowledgement that war is sometimes necessary. I am pro peace too, but I understand that sometimes a nation or group does need to defend themselves. I know there has been frustration in some circles that Ed and others have been quiet on this topic since Obama's election. To me it sounded like a guy whose views have been evolving. No More war becoming less war, etc.

Brian, big thumbs up from me for trying to keep this thread on track.

eldarion75

Israel 'defending' itself has served nothing but to leave a whole slew of children dead, those who survived with no parents, and thus creating a whole new generation of people going to take arms against them when theyve grown...that's the only outcome here. Israel needs to stop. It's a war machine armed to the teeth, with next to no casualties, against barely a group of guys firing fireworks in effect, and innocent people bearing the brunt, with the body count over 1000. it's indefensible.

eldarion75

if the 'iron dome' is all its cracked up to be, why even the need to fire back??

JimmyV

Again, if Hamas is firing such ineffective weapons the smart move would be to stop firing them. My own government may be too co-opted by AIPAC to change its stance, but if Hamas stopped shooting most every other country in the world would call on Israel to do the same.

JimmyV

Which is not to say that Israel shouldn't call this offensive off on their own. They absolutely should. They hold the power to end this particular round of hostilities almost instantly.

They don't want to do that, and the rockets from Gaza give them the cover to keep firing back.

BS44325

badbrains said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

eldarion75 said:

It's been all but proven that Hamas had nothing to do with those 3 deaths, but the IDF ran with it as an excuse for a weapons test and continuation of the israeli expansion agenda via ongoing murder of civilians

It's almost like everything conveniently worked out for Israel, 3 dead Israeli teens. Reason to invade again.....

The rockets and tunnels helped too.

Oh the firecrackers and tunnels? The tunnels that Israel KNEW about for years/months? Those same tunnels all of a sudden became the "problem?" Whatever floats your boat man. Whatever helps you sleep at night in your cozy bed knowing that NO ONE will ever invade or drop bombs on your house.

If they are just firecrackers why not join me in asking Hamas to stop firing them?

Here is a little more detail on the "firecrackers" from Syria and North Korea

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/10992921/Hamas-and-North-Korea-in-secret-arms-deal.html

"The Hamas arsenal has become increasing sophisticated with foreign assistance and now boasts five variants of rockets and missiles. Its basic weapon is the Iranian-designed Qassam rocket with a range of less than ten miles but it also has a large stockpile of the 122mm Katyushas which boast a range of up to 30 miles.
The introduction of the M-75 and Syrian-made M0302 missiles means Hamas boast offensive weapons with a longer range of up to 100 miles and a much greater explosive impact."

Just celebrating the 4th of July with those.

eldarion75

U.S. government: Stop arming Israel
The Israeli military has used a wide variety of conventional weapons such as guns, bullets, missiles, drones, jet fighters, artillery, tanks, armoured vehicles and naval vessels to commit serious human rights abuses in Gaza. It is time for the U.S. government to urgently suspend arms transfers to Israel and to push for a UN arms embargo on all parties to the conflict. Sign the petition now.

Send this message to
Secretary of State, John Kerry
Dear Secretary John Kerry,

I am writing to express my outrage and concern about the rapidly deteriorating situation in Gaza and Israel. I call on the U.S. government to urgently suspend arms transfers to Israel and help ensure that a UN arms embargo is imposed on all parties to the conflict.

Hundreds of Palestinians been killed so far and thousands have been injured by Israeli forces, as part of its military Operation “Protective Edge” in Gaza, which began on 8 July. The UN estimates that 78 per cent of those killed in Gaza have been civilians and that 21 per cent of them have been children. More than 3,000 homes in Gaza have been completely destroyed or rendered uninhabitable by Israeli attacks, leaving tens of thousands of Gazan residents homeless.

Palestinian armed groups have launched volleys of indiscriminate rockets into Israel. Three civilians have been killed in Israel, with other civilians injured. Israeli homes and other civilian property has also been damaged. And 35 Israeli soldiers have died in the fighting.

Throughout the conflict, the Israeli military have deployed or used a wide variety of conventional arms including missiles, large calibre artillery systems, military drones including for weapon systems and also surveillance, jet fighters, tanks, armoured vehicles, naval vessels and small arms and light weapons (SALW) with corresponding ammunition. Palestinian armed groups have used or deployed rocket launchers, rockets and SALW with corresponding ammunition.

Amnesty International is calling for a UN-imposed comprehensive arms embargo on Israel, Hamas and Palestinian armed groups. As the U.S. is Israel’s largest exporter of military, security and policing equipment, Amnesty International is calling on the U.S. government to stop sending arms to Israel that are being used to commit atrocities.

I therefore urge you to:

Immediately stop the transfer of all U.S. arms to Israel until there is no longer a substantial risk that such equipment or technology will be used to commit or facilitate serious violations of international human rights or humanitarian law. This includes ending the supply of all weapons, munitions, police equipment and devices, as well as training and techniques to Israel;
Help ensure that a comprehensive UN Security Council arms embargo is imposed on Israel, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups until effective mechanisms are in place to ensure that weapons, munitions, and other military equipment and technology will not be used to commit or facilitate serious violations international human rights or humanitarian law.
US policy prohibits the provision of weapons where there is a credible expectation that they may be used in grave human rights violations. The U.S. government must act in accordance with its own laws and policies concerning weapons transfers.

Stop arming Israel. The world is watching.

Sincerely,


full details
https://campaigns.amnesty.org/actions/us-stop-arming-israel

badbrains

eldarion75 said:

U.S. government: Stop arming Israel
The Israeli military has used a wide variety of conventional weapons such as guns, bullets, missiles, drones, jet fighters, artillery, tanks, armoured vehicles and naval vessels to commit serious human rights abuses in Gaza. It is time for the U.S. government to urgently suspend arms transfers to Israel and to push for a UN arms embargo on all parties to the conflict. Sign the petition now.

Send this message to
Secretary of State, John Kerry
Dear Secretary John Kerry,

I am writing to express my outrage and concern about the rapidly deteriorating situation in Gaza and Israel. I call on the U.S. government to urgently suspend arms transfers to Israel and help ensure that a UN arms embargo is imposed on all parties to the conflict.

Hundreds of Palestinians been killed so far and thousands have been injured by Israeli forces, as part of its military Operation “Protective Edge” in Gaza, which began on 8 July. The UN estimates that 78 per cent of those killed in Gaza have been civilians and that 21 per cent of them have been children. More than 3,000 homes in Gaza have been completely destroyed or rendered uninhabitable by Israeli attacks, leaving tens of thousands of Gazan residents homeless.

Palestinian armed groups have launched volleys of indiscriminate rockets into Israel. Three civilians have been killed in Israel, with other civilians injured. Israeli homes and other civilian property has also been damaged. And 35 Israeli soldiers have died in the fighting.

Throughout the conflict, the Israeli military have deployed or used a wide variety of conventional arms including missiles, large calibre artillery systems, military drones including for weapon systems and also surveillance, jet fighters, tanks, armoured vehicles, naval vessels and small arms and light weapons (SALW) with corresponding ammunition. Palestinian armed groups have used or deployed rocket launchers, rockets and SALW with corresponding ammunition.

Amnesty International is calling for a UN-imposed comprehensive arms embargo on Israel, Hamas and Palestinian armed groups. As the U.S. is Israel’s largest exporter of military, security and policing equipment, Amnesty International is calling on the U.S. government to stop sending arms to Israel that are being used to commit atrocities.

I therefore urge you to:

Immediately stop the transfer of all U.S. arms to Israel until there is no longer a substantial risk that such equipment or technology will be used to commit or facilitate serious violations of international human rights or humanitarian law. This includes ending the supply of all weapons, munitions, police equipment and devices, as well as training and techniques to Israel;
Help ensure that a comprehensive UN Security Council arms embargo is imposed on Israel, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups until effective mechanisms are in place to ensure that weapons, munitions, and other military equipment and technology will not be used to commit or facilitate serious violations international human rights or humanitarian law.
US policy prohibits the provision of weapons where there is a credible expectation that they may be used in grave human rights violations. The U.S. government must act in accordance with its own laws and policies concerning weapons transfers.

Stop arming Israel. The world is watching.

Sincerely,


full details
https://campaigns.amnesty.org/actions/us-stop-arming-israel

Wouldn't it be something if eddie signed this.....

eldarion75

i'd say he probably has..who would'nt? i have

still cant get over this report....the average age in Gaza is 17....thats incredible given whats happening...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ

JimmyV

Signed and numbered, 2381 out of 5000.

Abe Froman

Signed.