To a point. Being angry about a world issue and spreading awareness is one thing. And then there is anger that eats away at a person because one fails to recognize that they have no control over the situation, only to become cynical, bitter and no fun to be around.
I'm posting this from Mikepegg in a thread from AMT that's really fitting.
mikepegg44 said:
...Quit worrying about it and just take care of you and yours the best you can while being nice to everyone else. Don't wait for the federal gov't to do anything and just start pushing for change in local behavior and gov't. I am done worrying over things I cannot control, I am done worrying about politics the game...and I do blame that on leadership, but it isn't Obama's fault, the entire country is to blame for the "leadership" in Washington.
Something to point out… WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE EAST. But we can handle how we treat each other, here and in our communities. It's about Peace.
What a great attitude to take. If people had listened to you in the 1980's then we'd still have Apartheid South Africa now.
US condemns shelling of UN school in Gaza but restocks Israeli ammunition
The United States issued a firm condemnation of the shelling of a United Nations school in Gaza that killed at least 16 Palestinians on Wednesday, but also confirmed it restocked Israel’s dwindling supplies of ammunition.
...there was little evidence of Washington using its leverage with Israel, including record levels of military aid, to apply pressure on Jerusalem to curtail its offensive.
The Pentagon confirmed a CNN report that the US had recently provided Israel with a shipment of ammunition. “The United States is committed to the security of Israel, and it is vital to US national interests to assist Israel to develop and maintain a strong and ready self-defense capability,” said Pentagon press secretary Rear Admiral Kirby. “This defense sale is consistent with those objectives.”
The Israeli military requested the addition ammunition on 20 July . The US defense department approved the sale three days later, Kirby said.
Two of the requested munitions were sourced from a secret stockpile the US keeps in Israel for emergencies. White House approval was not required to release the weaponry War Reserve Stockpile Ammunition-Israel (WRSA-I), Kirby added. He did not say whether the White House was involved in the decision to supply the other ammunition apparently requested by the Israelis.
The provision of ammunition could prove controversial for Washington, which has expresssed growing concern about the deaths Palestinian civilians while maintaining support for its close ally.
Your government are paying for this slaughter, yet you're criticizing people for being angry, and preaching about peace, and how we can't do anything about what's happening in the Middle East.
Something to point out… WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE EAST. But we can handle how we treat each other, here and in our communities. It's about Peace.
Bullshit.
I repeat: your tax dollars are paying for this slaughter.
There is NOTHING wrong with being angry about this situation no matter what your viewpoint is (on the contrary). There is also nothing wrong with debating and having different opinions. Although there are more civil ways to debate than we're seeing hear at times. Obviously. But anyway, pretty sure that ed was talking about peace as in no war. No violence and death. Not peace as in everyone should get along brilliantly and agree with each other on the pearl jam forum, lol. Ed probably appreciates a good passionate debate. Even though we could all do without the constant personal insults and belittling.... but really that has nothing to do with what Eddie was talking about. People bickering about current events online is not the problem, lol.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I keep telling myself that eventually I'll get used to these pics coming out of gaza. Reality is, I'm not and it's sickening. Again I'll say it, it's a sad sad world we live in.
Your government are paying for this slaughter, yet you're criticizing people for being angry, and preaching about peace, and how we can't do anything about what's happening in the Middle East.
Something to point out… WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE EAST. But we can handle how we treat each other, here and in our communities. It's about Peace.
Bullshit.
I repeat: your tax dollars are paying for this slaughter.
Tell me exactly how your cynicism and anger is directly impacting the situation over there. How's that working for you, again? Solutions are only made when we get off our high horses and actually start communicating. Not by getting angry and refusing to hear anything else.
And you may not be willing to admit it, but this thread is about PEACE, as it was from the beginning. We all know how you feel about the US gov't, let's try to discuss without bringing more one-sided hate into the equation, eh? Really, Dude, all you want to do is ACCUSE. How about attempting to reason with people?
Your government are paying for this slaughter, yet you're criticizing people for being angry, and preaching about peace, and how we can't do anything about what's happening in the Middle East.
Something to point out… WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE EAST. But we can handle how we treat each other, here and in our communities. It's about Peace.
Bullshit.
I repeat: your tax dollars are paying for this slaughter.
Tell me exactly how your cynicism and anger is directly impacting the situation over there. How's that working for you, again? Solutions are only made when we get off our high horses and actually start communicating. Not by getting angry and refusing to hear anything else.
And you may not be willing to admit it, but this thread is about PEACE, as it was from the beginning. We all know how you feel about the US gov't, let's try to discuss without bringing more one-sided hate into the equation, eh? Really, Dude, all you want to do is ACCUSE. How about attempting to reason with people?
So I haven't been communicating? Really? One-sided hate?
Again, this is just bullshit. Have you actually read anything that I've posted?
Your tax dollars are paying for the slaughter over there. What are you doing about it?
I received a letter from a British MP yesterday telling ms that he'd try and raise some of my concerns at the next meeting of the EU.
What have you done? Nothing.
Your tax dollars are paying for the bombing of schools, hospitals, and UN safe houses. How do you feel about that in between squawking about peace and love and hugs?
You can get angry as much as you want, after all, it's your health and well-being, not mine. But you know as much as anyone else that no real solutions and certainly no peace has ever been attained through violence.
I've known byrnzie for a few years now and I'm gonna say this. In all the years I've known him, he's NEVER, not ONCE said to me or anyone else that I know that he advocates violence to kill innocent Jews, wants the destruction of Israel, hates Jews or any other culture/nation/religion. He's VERY passionate about this subject and is locked in for some years now. You may not like the way he may come across to you, but no 2 people are the same. No 2 people feel the same feelings when it comes to conflicts like this. Everybody may have anger or hate in situations but everyone would be at different levels. For example, and I'm not bringing this up to call someone out or anything, someone got angry at a story about a synagogue getting a Molotov cocktail thrown at it and no one was hurt. Now to some that would be such a minuet problem compared to what else has been happening in that region. Same conflict, different levels of hate or anger. Believe me when I say we all want peace EVEN byrnzie. He wants it bad, trust me. He wants all this bloodshed to end. All the innocent women/children to be able to sleep at night without any fright. To play in the playgrounds without dodging bullets. No more air raid sounds. All of this to stop. It's that nothing is getting done and that's making him and a lot of others, INCLUDING myself, very angry. It's not a show to him, he's not posting to act like mr know it all. It's real to him. He posts because like a lot of people on here, on BOTH sides, care, and want PEACE so bad. Sorry for rambling, this situation is like no other situation in our generation. We're growing up and getting old with war all around us all the time and I'm sick of it. The WHOLE world is sick of it. This can't be our future.
You can get angry as much as you want, after all, it's your health and well-being, not mine. But you know as much as anyone else that no real solutions and certainly no peace has ever been attained through violence.
That must piss you off.
Please quit focusing on one person in this thread. Argue the issues, not the person.
Edit: I edited out the "this guy is a joke" comment as it was not intended or directed at anyone, it was left over from an earlier comment I was going to make that I forgot to erase. Sorry backseatLover12 if you read it, not meant for anyone.
after 32 pages.... this thread name should be changed to "Image That- we're still arguing..." because I think the original meaning has been buried.
It is kind of telling that a thread intended to be about the quest for peace has erupted into a war.
Only on the PJ Forums…
I personally don't see this as war at all. As already stated, we might have differing opinions, but I would like to think that everyone here wants to promote peace and not killing.
There have been many times throughout this dialogue when it has seemed more personal than it needed to be. The battle lines had been drawn and away it went.
I agree. It's a topic that a lot of people care about and sometimes cooler heads don't prevail. I understand that, we have all been there I'm sure.
I really appreciate the tone you have taken throughout this thread (and others) JimmyV.
Post edited by dignin on
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
after 32 pages.... this thread name should be changed to "Image That- we're still arguing..." because I think the original meaning has been buried.
It is kind of telling that a thread intended to be about the quest for peace has erupted into a war.
Only on the PJ Forums…
I personally don't see this as war at all. As already stated, we might have differing opinions, but I would like to think that everyone here wants to promote peace and not killing.
There have been many times throughout this dialogue when it has seemed more personal than it needed to be. The battle lines had been drawn and away it went.
I agree. It's a topic that a lot of people care about and sometimes cooler heads don't prevail. I understand that, we have all been there I'm sure.
I really appreciate the tone you have taken throughout this thread (and others) JimmyV.
I was about to post something similar but you said it well, and I agree.
Being incredibly pissed off is one thing, but I wish insults and the like could be left at the door.
after 32 pages.... this thread name should be changed to "Image That- we're still arguing..." because I think the original meaning has been buried.
It is kind of telling that a thread intended to be about the quest for peace has erupted into a war.
Only on the PJ Forums…
I personally don't see this as war at all. As already stated, we might have differing opinions, but I would like to think that everyone here wants to promote peace and not killing.
There have been many times throughout this dialogue when it has seemed more personal than it needed to be. The battle lines had been drawn and away it went.
I agree. It's a topic that a lot of people care about and sometimes cooler heads don't prevail. I understand that, we have all been there I'm sure.
I really appreciate the tone you have taken throughout this thread (and others) JimmyV.
Thanks. You are right about cooler heads not always prevailing, and that we have all been there. I have had my share of arguments on the board too.
If everyone can agree that we want to see less war (or no war at all) and remember that we are all here because we love the same band...maybe we can come a little closer together.
Nearly 12% (11.7%, to be precise) of the world's population is currently at war.
A sad and mad world, indeed.
Those of you who are actively trying to put an end to it, wherever it may be, keep doing it. Don't give up!
For those of you who are just arguing with folks on the internet, please, for the love of life on this planet, direct that energy toward a letter to the appropriate representative in your government, repeat; get folks you know on the side of ending it to do the same thing, repeat; get folks you know on the side of of ending it to get folks they know on the side of ending it to do the same thing, repeat; etc.; etc.
OK, this is starting to sound like the end of "Alice's Restaurant."
I haven't cried since I was eight years old (and I've lost a father, an uncle, a grandmother, a grandfather, some good friends and then some since then), but since this latest "operation" began, I nearly do so every night at my dinner table when looking at my kids. The images of the latest round of dead children is hard to shake when I look at their faces.
I swallow it down with dinner, but it doesn't go down easy.
You can get angry as much as you want, after all, it's your health and well-being, not mine. But you know as much as anyone else that no real solutions and certainly no peace has ever been attained through violence.
That must piss you off.
Who said anything about promoting violence? Nobody did. You're talking out of your butt.
You seem to think its unreasonable for people to be angry over the Israelis committing mass murder.
Actually, it's people like you who are unreasonable.
You can get angry as much as you want, after all, it's your health and well-being, not mine. But you know as much as anyone else that no real solutions and certainly no peace has ever been attained through violence.
That must piss you off.
Please quit focusing on one person in this thread. Argue the issues, not the person.
Exactly. Apparently this is all about me though. Forget about the mass murder of civilians. Byrnzie's angry. Lets psychoanalyse him and pretend he's unreasonable.
Next they'll be asking me to assume the position so they can stick a stethoscope up my arse.
I haven't cried since I was eight years old (and I've lost a father, an uncle, a grandmother, a grandfather, some good friends and then some since then), but since this latest "operation" began, I nearly do so every night at my dinner table when looking at my kids. The images of the latest round of dead children is hard to shake when I look at their faces.
I swallow it down with dinner, but it doesn't go down easy.
It's because you're a human dan, you FEEL. Unlike some of these leaders we got running our countries. It's amazing, seems like whenever I see I kid wherever I'm at, it reminds me of gaza, I get that lump in my throat and the eyes start to swell up. It could be because that kid is walking with his dad, riding a bike in the neighborhood or seeing my best friends new baby. Then I think of gaza and all the kids who have no one left or the father who has nothing left. It's numbing.....
I keep telling myself that eventually I'll get used to these pics coming out of gaza. Reality is, I'm not and it's sickening. Again I'll say it, it's a sad sad world we live in.
Have you seen the pictures coming out of Sharknado!!! They are far more horrific.
Here's a great read from a woman's perspective: Yasmin mogahed
"I used to wonder why some Palestinian people would engage in actions that could only provoke the aggressor further. Then I realized that to ask a people to live quietly, while they have no justice and no freedom, is to ask them to live "peacefully" as slaves. "Peace" without justice or freedom is slavery. It's like asking a battered woman to live "peacefully" with her abuser. We all want the bloodshed to stop. But what about the daily humiliation and institutionalized oppression?
I was reminded of a part in "The Hunger Games" when Katniss considers abandoning the resistance against the oppressor, in exchange for "safety". Gale's response was telling. He said: "Safe to do what? Starve? Work like slaves? Send their kids to the reaping?"
Consider this: If a woman is being raped, things would be a lot more "peaceful" if she didn't resist. But, asking her not to resist--just because her attacker is physically stronger--is asking her to accept her own abuse and oppression for the sake of "peace". This is what the world is asking Palestinians to do.
And sometimes what seems to the world as just ineffective tactics, like throwing a rock at a tank, is in fact an act of resistance. It is a powerful statement to the oppressor--and the world--that they refuse to be enslaved. That dignity and self-respect are even more beloved to them than their own lives.
It is a statement that you can take their lives. But not their freedom." ~ Yasmin Mogahed
I keep telling myself that eventually I'll get used to these pics coming out of gaza. Reality is, I'm not and it's sickening. Again I'll say it, it's a sad sad world we live in.
Have you seen the pictures coming out of Sharknado!!! They are far more horrific.
I keep telling myself that eventually I'll get used to these pics coming out of gaza. Reality is, I'm not and it's sickening. Again I'll say it, it's a sad sad world we live in.
Have you seen the pictures coming out of Sharknado!!! They are far more horrific.
Dude...not funny.
I just watched it. It's pretty damn funny.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,068
It's still about peace here. I'm walking with the peace seekers on this thread. Sorry to see the anger still bumping up against ourselves here. It's just not very useful if it isn't forged with cooperation- even worse when exercised out of context. Here, it's about peace.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So let me get this right - there are those of us who are calling for an end to the conflict and for both sides to comply with international law, and who are writing letters to political representatives, and otherwise protesting the massacre.
And then there are 'the peace seekers'? Those who want to talk about peace and love on PJ's forum and criticize those of us who are angry at the fact that bombs are being dropped on babies.
Yep, that makes sense.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I think you've got it wrong - whether you'll ever see or admit that...it's on you.
(but I agree, this thread is not about you at all. I hope the focus can shift.)
But, if that black and white, us or them view, is what you're taking from the well-spoken people in this thread, then it's too bad, and doesn't make much sense to me.
I doubt anyone's looking to stick a daisy into the barrel of a gun, and re-create some scene from Hair.
Comments
What a great attitude to take. If people had listened to you in the 1980's then we'd still have Apartheid South Africa now.
Meanwhile, this is what $4Billion of your taxes are paying for every year:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/us-firm-condemnation-shelling-un-school-gaza
US condemns shelling of UN school in Gaza but restocks Israeli ammunition
The United States issued a firm condemnation of the shelling of a United Nations school in Gaza that killed at least 16 Palestinians on Wednesday, but also confirmed it restocked Israel’s dwindling supplies of ammunition.
...there was little evidence of Washington using its leverage with Israel, including record levels of military aid, to apply pressure on Jerusalem to curtail its offensive.
The Pentagon confirmed a CNN report that the US had recently provided Israel with a shipment of ammunition. “The United States is committed to the security of Israel, and it is vital to US national interests to assist Israel to develop and maintain a strong and ready self-defense capability,” said Pentagon press secretary Rear Admiral Kirby. “This defense sale is consistent with those objectives.”
The Israeli military requested the addition ammunition on 20 July . The US defense department approved the sale three days later, Kirby said.
Two of the requested munitions were sourced from a secret stockpile the US keeps in Israel for emergencies. White House approval was not required to release the weaponry War Reserve Stockpile Ammunition-Israel (WRSA-I), Kirby added. He did not say whether the White House was involved in the decision to supply the other ammunition apparently requested by the Israelis.
The provision of ammunition could prove controversial for Washington, which has expresssed growing concern about the deaths Palestinian civilians while maintaining support for its close ally.
I repeat: your tax dollars are paying for this slaughter.
Although there are more civil ways to debate than we're seeing hear at times. Obviously. But anyway, pretty sure that ed was talking about peace as in no war. No violence and death. Not peace as in everyone should get along brilliantly and agree with each other on the pearl jam forum, lol. Ed probably appreciates a good passionate debate. Even though we could all do without the constant personal insults and belittling.... but really that has nothing to do with what Eddie was talking about. People bickering about current events online is not the problem, lol.
And you may not be willing to admit it, but this thread is about PEACE, as it was from the beginning. We all know how you feel about the US gov't, let's try to discuss without bringing more one-sided hate into the equation, eh? Really, Dude, all you want to do is ACCUSE. How about attempting to reason with people?
Again, this is just bullshit. Have you actually read anything that I've posted?
Your tax dollars are paying for the slaughter over there. What are you doing about it?
I received a letter from a British MP yesterday telling ms that he'd try and raise some of my concerns at the next meeting of the EU.
What have you done? Nothing.
Your tax dollars are paying for the bombing of schools, hospitals, and UN safe houses. How do you feel about that in between squawking about peace and love and hugs?
That must piss you off.
Please quit focusing on one person in this thread. Argue the issues, not the person.
Edit: I edited out the "this guy is a joke" comment as it was not intended or directed at anyone, it was left over from an earlier comment I was going to make that I forgot to erase. Sorry backseatLover12 if you read it, not meant for anyone.
I really appreciate the tone you have taken throughout this thread (and others) JimmyV.
Being incredibly pissed off is one thing, but I wish insults and the like could be left at the door.
(realizing it ain't gonna happen though!)
If everyone can agree that we want to see less war (or no war at all) and remember that we are all here because we love the same band...maybe we can come a little closer together.
Maybe. ;-)
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
A sad and mad world, indeed.
Those of you who are actively trying to put an end to it, wherever it may be, keep doing it. Don't give up!
For those of you who are just arguing with folks on the internet, please, for the love of life on this planet, direct that energy toward a letter to the appropriate representative in your government, repeat; get folks you know on the side of ending it to do the same thing, repeat; get folks you know on the side of of ending it to get folks they know on the side of ending it to do the same thing, repeat; etc.; etc.
OK, this is starting to sound like the end of "Alice's Restaurant."
"One more time ... with feeling."
Thanks for listening.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/gaza/11001631/UN-spokesman-breaks-down-talking-about-Gaza-child-deaths.html
I swallow it down with dinner, but it doesn't go down easy.
You seem to think its unreasonable for people to be angry over the Israelis committing mass murder.
Actually, it's people like you who are unreasonable.
Next they'll be asking me to assume the position so they can stick a stethoscope up my arse.
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/this-could-be-the-most-heartbreaking-image-of-the-israelgaza-conflict-yet--gJaxzjoQzx
"I used to wonder why some Palestinian people would engage in actions that could only provoke the aggressor further. Then I realized that to ask a people to live quietly, while they have no justice and no freedom, is to ask them to live "peacefully" as slaves. "Peace" without justice or freedom is slavery. It's like asking a battered woman to live "peacefully" with her abuser. We all want the bloodshed to stop. But what about the daily humiliation and institutionalized oppression?
I was reminded of a part in "The Hunger Games" when Katniss considers abandoning the resistance against the oppressor, in exchange for "safety". Gale's response was telling. He said: "Safe to do what? Starve? Work like slaves? Send their kids to the reaping?"
Consider this: If a woman is being raped, things would be a lot more "peaceful" if she didn't resist. But, asking her not to resist--just because her attacker is physically stronger--is asking her to accept her own abuse and oppression for the sake of "peace". This is what the world is asking Palestinians to do.
And sometimes what seems to the world as just ineffective tactics, like throwing a rock at a tank, is in fact an act of resistance. It is a powerful statement to the oppressor--and the world--that they refuse to be enslaved. That dignity and self-respect are even more beloved to them than their own lives.
It is a statement that you can take their lives. But not their freedom."
~ Yasmin Mogahed
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I'm walking with the peace seekers on this thread. Sorry to see the anger still bumping up against ourselves here. It's just not very useful if it isn't forged with cooperation- even worse when exercised out of context.
Here, it's about peace.
And then there are 'the peace seekers'? Those who want to talk about peace and love on PJ's forum and criticize those of us who are angry at the fact that bombs are being dropped on babies.
Yep, that makes sense.
(but I agree, this thread is not about you at all. I hope the focus can shift.)
But, if that black and white, us or them view, is what you're taking from the well-spoken people in this thread, then it's too bad, and doesn't make much sense to me.
I doubt anyone's looking to stick a daisy into the barrel of a gun, and re-create some scene from Hair.
Gaza: nothing more shameful than attacking sleeping children, says Ban Ki-moon - video http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/world-disgrace-gaza-un-shelter-school-israel