Eddie or Pearl Jam don't owe us anything. They do not exist to please us. They exist because they have a passion to create music that is inspired by many things, including the state of the world we all share as human beings. Granted, I tend to agree with everything they say, but if I didn't, I wouldn't expect them to change or shut up to please me. They create art and you either appreciate it or you don't. Buy it or don't. But making compromises to sell tickets or cds or whatever is the antithesis of what has made Pearl Jam "more than a band" to so many of us.
all the things you listed, are generic actions of war.... two sides drop bombs on each other... one side goes and tries to take land that doesn't belong to them... leaders on both sides are looking for a reason to kill (it's war that what you do in war).... citizens of any country don't want to give up their tax money to drop bombs on children.
while perhaps seeing events happening with Israeli/Palestinian conflict in the news might have been a catalyst for his remarks... he was speaking in general terms about the elements of the world who seek war instead of peace regardless of what country they come from.
his comments were much boarder in scope then pertaining to a particular incident.
If that's the case, he needs to come out and say it. Pearl Jam fans have been one big family, all looking out for each other, and really it being all about the music. His comments the other night have created a divide in the fan base, which in turn, have really alienated the Jewish fan base. Back in the day, yeah, he'd go off on Bush and what not, but the tone of his voice seemed like so much vented hatred, it's disturbing. My guess is that this will go by the wayside, but it really needs to be addressed.
he did come out and say it, he was making generalizations about war, there was nothing uncertain or confusing about it... if there's any division being caused it's because people are making assumptions and jumping to conclusions based off the article of one dude who completely missed the point and took it personally. Listening to ed's comments, it's fairly obvious he's not speaking towards any one nation, and at no point when I heard what he said did I think "oh he's talking about Israel". The fact that this is even an issue is quite surprising to me...the guy was talking about war vs. peace... pretty cut and dry. Make art, fuck, have a good time...don't kill and hate each other planet earth. His tone seem to be out of frustration, that we continue killing one another.
Although I am liberal I am not as liberal as Ed. Who cares? He criticizes America as I do sometimes. Does every person have to hold the exact beliefs as you? No. Does it mean you can't be friends with someone? No.
Israel isn't the 51st state in America and neither is Palestine.
I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell.
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
Brad, I've seen the pics and have also seen the ones from syria, Iraq, and Palestine. Shits fucked up all over the world. But we're talking about Israel/Palestine. People can make all the excuses they want, in no way am I talking about u brad. It is what it is and eddies eyes say it all. He was angry and pissed. He called out Israel without actually saying Israel. This is bad and we'll see what happens. We'll see if he caves in and makes some sort of "mis spoke bullshit excuse" or if he says ya I said it and I stand by it. Maybe roger waters has something to do with this or maybe eddie actually deep down inside feels this way. And people we have to remember, this is a piece of land surrounded by Israel and is basically an "open" prison" if there's such a thing. A good movie produced by John Pilger I believe it's called Palestine is still the question? Something like that. Very good documentary. Who the fuck knows what's te reason eddie said it. He said it. And good for him.
badbrains... I agree..."we" are talking about Israel/Palestine...but I don't think his comments were about that specifically... at all. I bring up other conflicts like Iraq to illustrate that he was speaking in generalizations because just as you said "shit's fucked up all over the world" and that is ed's whole point. He was angry and pissed, as we all should be that we as a species can't seem to stop killing one another, that we have all this amazing technology but we as a species haven't evolved along side it. If you think he was calling out Israel, then that's your assumption... because I saw it entirely differently, and at no point did he specifically reference Israel... he was calling out the elements of human nature that opt for war and killing instead of peace and love. I am not trying to make excuses for him ( i know you weren't saying I was), I am merely responding to what I saw a guy say in a video... what I saw a guy say who in the past has been anti-war and pro-peace... so from an impartial perspective, of just listening to some guy's opinions in a youtube clip, I am not getting any of the calling out Israel aspect that others are... in my opinion, based on what he's saying and what I know of what he's said in the past, he's speaking to humanity as a whole because "shit's fucked up all over the world" just like you said.
Eddie's opinion is just like the opinion of everyone in this thread. We are all human with day jobs and thoughts on the world. I am not going to get worked up over what Eddie Vedder says just like I am not going to get worked up over what someone in this thread says. Maybe it is because I wouldn't be shocked that Eddie would be against Israeli leadership.
Edit: Just watched the speech and Ed is without question talking about Israel and the US sending money to Israel. 100%, without any doubt. He talks about crossing borders and dropping bombs (which Israel is doing). ISIS is going town to town but not crossing borders. I don't think Ed would accuse them of creating reasons to kill and the Iraqi government isn't crossing borders so they aren't being referenced either. 100% Israel. That rage is fueled by frustration with people in charge Ed disagrees with and we saw Bush fuel it and now Israeli leadership.
Eddie's opinion is just like the opinion of everyone in this thread. We are all human with day jobs and thoughts on the world. I am not going to get worked up over what Eddie Vedder says just like I am not going to get worked up over what someone in this thread says. Maybe it is because I wouldn't be shocked that Eddie would be against Israeli leadership.
Edit: Just watched the speech and Ed is without question talking about Israel and the US sending money to Israel. 100%, without any doubt. He talks about crossing borders and dropping bombs (which Israel is doing). ISIS is going town to town but not crossing borders. I don't think Ed would accuse them of creating reasons to kill and the Iraqi government isn't crossing borders so they aren't being referenced either. 100% Israel. That rage is fueled by frustration with people in charge Ed disagrees with and we saw Bush fuel it and now Israeli leadership.
just watched it again too to see if I am missing something... he says "we don't want to give them our money, they don't get our taxes to drop bombs on children"... at no point does he say WE the US shouldn't send money to israel... all the WE's he says are the general "we", all of us human beings meaning those of us living peacefully and not causing war... WE, the citizens of the world, don't want to give our money to war mongers in any nation. We, humans of all nations don't want to give our taxes to bomb builders. It's all generalizations about the bigger picture, about human beings.
And again, crossing borders and dropping bombs are generalizations about war... all wars involve one nation crossing into another nation's borders and all modern wars involve dropping bombs.
His rage is at all leaders of any nation who promote and generate war... at no point does he specifically call out Israel...ever. Does Israel cross borders and drop bombs, does the US cross borders and drop bombs, does Russia cross borders and drop bombs... yes... any warring faction in any conflict crosses borders and drops bombs. So much is being read into this that isn't being said.
the whole message is a message to humanity, not to one nation.
OK, so I finally watched this clip. I think Israel probably did trigger the rant, but the rant was directed at many more than just a single country, faction or group. I think if you are listening to that speech and hearing that Eddie hates Israel, you are hearing something that is not being said or even implied.
Brad,if you want to make your eyes bleed,this discussion has been going on for months in the thread"Bring Pearl Jam to Israel". Much like the conflict itself ,the discussion seems to go in a circle.Between all sides.Lots of passion,lots of opinion,No solution. I agree, Ed was talking war in general.Inspired by actions in Israel/Gaza I'm sure,but not only that conflict.Those who want to see it for or against will indeed see or hear what they need to make their case.And around we go again.
Brad,if you want to make your eyes bleed,this discussion has been going on for months in the thread"Bring Pearl Jam to Israel". Much like the conflict itself ,the discussion seems to go in a circle.Between all sides.Lots of passion,lots of opinion,No solution. I agree, Ed was talking war in general.Inspired by actions in Israel/Gaza I'm sure,but not only that conflict.Those who want to see it for or against will indeed see or hear what they need to make their case.And around we go again.
I don't know why I am so invested in this conversation... I think because it's sad to me that people are missing the point entirely of a very passionate speech about love over war. About the truth of the matter that most of us want to go to a concert and be happy and don't want war, yet we are saddled with war by a few evil fucks in all nations who rule over all of us in every nation. It's a speech talking about the desire for the unity of humanity, and people are using it to divide...it's ridiculous.
And it's quite possible the israel/palestine conflict was the catalyst for the speech, maybe he saw something on the news that day... but it seems like it was just the last straw... it could have been any conflict, that was just the most recent event... one of those moment where you don't care who is doing what to who, you are just sick and tired of all the conflict happening everywhere.
If he had made the same speech at a time where Israel and Palestine were in a ceasefire, no one would be thinking he was talking specifically about that... they'd all see he was speaking about war in general. If Russia had just done something in the Ukraine that day, or vice versa, you wouldn't have all this drama. If the US had sent drones into another country that day you wouldn't have all this drama.
we provide israel on average $3.5 billion in military aid every year. this is planes, bombs, missiles, defense equipment, and israel is bombing hospitals and mosques. ed was friends with howard zinn. the band has recomended reading works from people like chomsky and norman finkelstein.
to think ed was talking about anything else, you have not been paying attention.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
I think that there is one thing we can all agree on in this thread -- BK's MK print was freaking amazing! Now Santos -- just hook me up with a DC Reaper in a Mystery Tube and there will be peace and love, peace and love, throughout the world!
we provide israel on average $3.5 billion in military aid every year. this is planes, bombs, missiles, defense equipment, and israel is bombing hospitals and mosques. ed was friends with howard zinn. the band has recomended reading works from people like chomsky and norman finkelstein.
to think ed was talking about anything else, you have not been paying attention.
he never mentions giving money to israel, not once... he mentions that people, humans of the world, WE, all of us who don't run nations, don't want to give money to the rulers of our nations to build bombs.
we provide israel on average $3.5 billion in military aid every year. this is planes, bombs, missiles, defense equipment, and israel is bombing hospitals and mosques. ed was friends with howard zinn. the band has recomended reading works from people like chomsky and norman finkelstein.
to think ed was talking about anything else, you have not been paying attention.
he never mentions giving money to israel, not once... he mentions that people, humans of the world, WE, all of us who don't run nations, don't want to give money to the rulers of our nations to build bombs.
then we should not pay taxes at all. because that is what governments spend money on.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
we provide israel on average $3.5 billion in military aid every year. this is planes, bombs, missiles, defense equipment, and israel is bombing hospitals and mosques. ed was friends with howard zinn. the band has recomended reading works from people like chomsky and norman finkelstein.
to think ed was talking about anything else, you have not been paying attention.
he never mentions giving money to israel, not once... he mentions that people, humans of the world, WE, all of us who don't run nations, don't want to give money to the rulers of our nations to build bombs.
then we should not pay taxes at all. because that is what governments spend money on.
well in theory they spend it also on infrastructure, maintaing roads, building libraries, making sure the country runs... they also spend it on weapons... but the point of his speech isn't about taxes, it's about choosing love over war.
What I got from the rant was that a huge number if people were enjoying a night of music coming together from all over the world, but not too far away bombs are dropping. Eddie's wish was for the wars and violence to end and for people to live together and start building a society where people can enjoy music and life rather than be living with hate and fear.
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
When Eddie went on his gun control rant in Hartford he referenced Newtown and specifically mentioned the NRA and the gun lobby. My guess is that if he was speaking specifically about Israel he would have mentioned Israel. He didn't, and I don't believe he was.
Well now that the euro tour is over, the boys are heading back to the states. No doubt someone is gonna ask mr vedder to clarify his remarks. That's def gonna happen.
Again, no offense brad or whoever may feel the same, there is no doubt eddie was talking about Israel. Even some on the thread here who are either Jewish or from Israel admit it. One even said it's gonna take time for it to sink in or something to that extent. Tax payer money funding bombs killing children, people crossing borders and "taking/stealing" land that's not there's, he's def talking Israel. No doubt. And until he comes out and says differently, that's what I'll believe. Let's be real here, I know it must hurt if you're either from Israel or Jewish and love pearl jam to hear eddie say that. But as others have said, how can u be surprised by his feelings on the matter.
When Eddie went on his gun control rant in Hartford he referenced Newtown and specifically mentioned the NRA and the gun lobby. My guess is that if he was speaking specifically about Israel he would have mentioned Israel. He didn't, and I don't believe he was.
Yeah people act as if Ed's afraid to speak his mind, the dude walked out on stage wearing a George bush mask every night for fucks sake.
Well now that the euro tour is over, the boys are heading back to the states. No doubt someone is gonna ask mr vedder to clarify his remarks. That's def gonna happen.
Again, no offense brad or whoever may feel the same, there is no doubt eddie was talking about Israel. Even some on the thread here who are either Jewish or from Israel admit it. One even said it's gonna take time for it to sink in or something to that extent. Tax payer money funding bombs killing children, people crossing borders and "taking/stealing" land that's not there's, he's def talking Israel. No doubt. And until he comes out and says differently, that's what I'll believe. Let's be real here, I know it must hurt if you're either from Israel or Jewish and love pearl jam to hear eddie say that. But as others have said, how can u be surprised by his feelings on the matter.
badbrains... no offense taken... and likewise, please take no offense in my comments, as this is merely a discussion from two different viewpoints...
you are misconstruing his words...
the nazis in WW II crossed borders and stole land that didn't belong to them using tax payer funded bombs killing children.
the US crossed borders in Vietnam and both Iraq wars and in Afghanistan and pretty much every conflict we've been involved in (as we have military bases all over the world on land that was not ours) using tax payer funded bombs to kill children
you cannot say he is without a doubt speaking about Israel, when the points you are using to make that claim are true of countless other incidents throughout history.
Post edited by bradklausen on
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SkeeterB
If I knew where it was, I would take you there... Posts: 422
I think that there is one thing we can all agree on in this thread -- BK's MK print was freaking amazing! Now Santos -- just hook me up with a DC Reaper in a Mystery Tube and there will be peace and love, peace and love, throughout the world!
Yep, Brad knocked that one out of the park.
You get the Reaper, I get a Mansfield 1998, and all the children of the world sing a song of peace.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
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SkeeterB
If I knew where it was, I would take you there... Posts: 422
badbrains... no offense taken... and likewise, please take no offense in my comments, as this is merely a discussion from two different viewpoints...
you are misconstruing his words...
the nazis in WW II crossed borders and stole land that didn't belong to them using tax payer funded bombs killing children.
the US crossed borders in Vietnam and both Iraq wars and in Afghanistan and pretty much every conflict we've been involved in (as we have military bases all over the world on land that was not ours) using tax payer funded bombs to kill children
you cannot say he is without a doubt speaking about Israel, when the points you are using to make that claim are true of countless other incidents throughout history.
Brad...because he said 'not too far from here' and it's current.
But as others have said, how can u be surprised by his feelings on the matter.
Because they were one sided and he is very un-informed and un-educated on a very delicate topic. The hatred in his tone was disturbing.
People seem to forget that a mere 70 years ago, 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust.
they were only one sided in that his comments were for the side of humanity, for all of us everywhere, and against the small side of the few handful of leaders of all nations that use war to dominate and control the masses.
this had nothing to do with Israel... and his tone was aimed at the few people who oppress humanity through war, not at Israel, or at the Israeli people.... if anyone thinks ed has any ounce of hate in him for a particular group of people, aside from the elite rulers of nations, then you haven't been following this band and listening to his lyrics...
the rulers of a nation, be it Israel, or the US, or Egypt, or France, or Spain, or wherever, aren't it's people... to be critical of politicians and their actions is not to be critical of the people of that nation and it's the same as being critical of Bush or Obama... it doesn't mean you are critical of the american people.
SkeeterB... he wasn't aiming this at any nation, his hatred is rightfully aimed at those who continue to promote war all over the globe.
Post edited by bradklausen on
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SkeeterB
If I knew where it was, I would take you there... Posts: 422
Brad - I appreciate your comments and hope that you're right. If anyone has some insight into him, you'd know best. I am so torn on this because I know that he's a pacifist, hates war, and is about peace and love. But the way it came out of his mouth and the timing have rubbed me the wrong way. It's great that we have different perspectives and gives me hope, but it still bothers me and I really am torn.
If we can agree that the catalyst for this rant was the Israel/Palestine conflict..(and realistically it's the only one that makes sense, because they've played many shows since the ISIS and Ukraine crises began)...then what to make of him speaking about stealing land and giving tax money to drop bombs on children? Only israel is stealing land, not Hamas. Israel, not Hamas, gets US tax dollars....As for dropping bombs on children - how many Israeli children have had a bomb drop on them in this conflict? I believe the answer is zero, while I expect the Palestinian death toll to rise above 200 killed, 2000 injured today. I think THAT is where the anger and frustration is coming from. Yes, from war in general. But if Israel was the catalyst, and the words were framed in a way that only criticizes israel, it's not a stretch to say he was speaking about Israel for parts of the speech - the parts the Israelis are upset about. If he wasn't framing his words to express frustration with Israel, there would not be the outcry from israeli's that is happening now. Both they and the Palestinian solidarity crowd think he was talking about Israel.
If he doesn't want to make a statement as a public figure, and put his life thru the wringer of anti-Semite accusations from the Israel lobby, or if other band members would prefer not to be involved....if he would prefer to speak vaguely and somewhat diplomatically, I understand. But I'm thankful that he at least alluded to the fact that maybe there is a start and end point in the conflict that we've agree was the catalyst for the rant: stealing land.
There are three ways Ed can handle this: -say it wasn't about Israel and not comment further. -Say no more about the topic. -address the controversy and give a clear stance.
badbrains... no offense taken... and likewise, please take no offense in my comments, as this is merely a discussion from two different viewpoints...
you are misconstruing his words...
the nazis in WW II crossed borders and stole land that didn't belong to them using tax payer funded bombs killing children.
the US crossed borders in Vietnam and both Iraq wars and in Afghanistan and pretty much every conflict we've been involved in (as we have military bases all over the world on land that was not ours) using tax payer funded bombs to kill children
you cannot say he is without a doubt speaking about Israel, when the points you are using to make that claim are true of countless other incidents throughout history.
Brad...because he said 'not too far from here' and it's current.
As I've said, it's quite possible that was the catalyst for his comments, but the speech in general was not aimed at Israel or the people of Israel... it was aimed at the leaders of countries who choose war over diplomacy, at human beings that would rather destroy then create...
at no point did he call out israel or the israeli people... he's speaking generally... nobody asked my opinion if we should invade Iraq, or to send drones into Pakistan, or fire missiles into all the places we like to fire missiles... a few people behind closed doors who aren't me, who aren't the american public did that... if someone were to then be critical of "America" doing these things, I would know they aren't being critical of me and my fellow countrymen... rather the criticism is solely aimed at the few politicians who made those decisions and are responsible for that policy. And myself as an American, I am appalled at the things american politicians do under our name and feel they shouldn't be free of criticism, especially when they are killing people... in fact that is when we should be most criitcal of our leaders. Criticism of a nation's policies is not criticism of the people of that nation.
so if someone called out my leaders for actions that I had no part in, I know they are not calling me out or have ill will towards me. If the CEO of a company kicks sand in the face of some kids at the beach and people call him an asshole, they aren't calling all the people who work for that company an asshole.
I've never spoken to Ed personally about this, but I can guarantee you that he has no hatred for any country... the guy travels the globe and is shown insanely massive love every where he goes, you don't think he reciprocates that? I've seen no other band where the front man takes the time to try and learn the language of every country he is in so he can connect with the people of that country.
I'm American. I have heard Ed talk about American politics, criticize US government policies, and rail against certain things.
I have often agreed with him, sometimes disagreed, but always made me think. Everyone is allowed to their thoughts, and their points of view. If you value someone's opinion most of the time, its definitely worth thinking about it when you disagree with them. You might not end up agreeing, but some new perspective is always healthy.
And in the end, you can still always choose to disagree.
Comments
he did come out and say it, he was making generalizations about war, there was nothing uncertain or confusing about it... if there's any division being caused it's because people are making assumptions and jumping to conclusions based off the article of one dude who completely missed the point and took it personally. Listening to ed's comments, it's fairly obvious he's not speaking towards any one nation, and at no point when I heard what he said did I think "oh he's talking about Israel". The fact that this is even an issue is quite surprising to me...the guy was talking about war vs. peace... pretty cut and dry. Make art, fuck, have a good time...don't kill and hate each other planet earth. His tone seem to be out of frustration, that we continue killing one another.
Israel isn't the 51st state in America and neither is Palestine.
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
that's my take on what I saw.
Edit: Just watched the speech and Ed is without question talking about Israel and the US sending money to Israel. 100%, without any doubt. He talks about crossing borders and dropping bombs (which Israel is doing). ISIS is going town to town but not crossing borders. I don't think Ed would accuse them of creating reasons to kill and the Iraqi government isn't crossing borders so they aren't being referenced either. 100% Israel. That rage is fueled by frustration with people in charge Ed disagrees with and we saw Bush fuel it and now Israeli leadership.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/13/opinion/oren-mideast-crisis-solution/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
just watched it again too to see if I am missing something... he says "we don't want to give them our money, they don't get our taxes to drop bombs on children"... at no point does he say WE the US shouldn't send money to israel... all the WE's he says are the general "we", all of us human beings meaning those of us living peacefully and not causing war... WE, the citizens of the world, don't want to give our money to war mongers in any nation. We, humans of all nations don't want to give our taxes to bomb builders. It's all generalizations about the bigger picture, about human beings.
And again, crossing borders and dropping bombs are generalizations about war... all wars involve one nation crossing into another nation's borders and all modern wars involve dropping bombs.
His rage is at all leaders of any nation who promote and generate war... at no point does he specifically call out Israel...ever. Does Israel cross borders and drop bombs, does the US cross borders and drop bombs, does Russia cross borders and drop bombs... yes... any warring faction in any conflict crosses borders and drops bombs. So much is being read into this that isn't being said.
the whole message is a message to humanity, not to one nation.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Much like the conflict itself ,the discussion seems to go in a circle.Between all sides.Lots of passion,lots of opinion,No solution.
I agree, Ed was talking war in general.Inspired by actions in Israel/Gaza I'm sure,but not only that conflict.Those who want to see it for or against will indeed see or hear what they need to make their case.And around we go again.
And it's quite possible the israel/palestine conflict was the catalyst for the speech, maybe he saw something on the news that day... but it seems like it was just the last straw... it could have been any conflict, that was just the most recent event... one of those moment where you don't care who is doing what to who, you are just sick and tired of all the conflict happening everywhere.
If he had made the same speech at a time where Israel and Palestine were in a ceasefire, no one would be thinking he was talking specifically about that... they'd all see he was speaking about war in general. If Russia had just done something in the Ukraine that day, or vice versa, you wouldn't have all this drama. If the US had sent drones into another country that day you wouldn't have all this drama.
we provide israel on average $3.5 billion in military aid every year. this is planes, bombs, missiles, defense equipment, and israel is bombing hospitals and mosques. ed was friends with howard zinn. the band has recomended reading works from people like chomsky and norman finkelstein.
to think ed was talking about anything else, you have not been paying attention.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Again, no offense brad or whoever may feel the same, there is no doubt eddie was talking about Israel. Even some on the thread here who are either Jewish or from Israel admit it. One even said it's gonna take time for it to sink in or something to that extent. Tax payer money funding bombs killing children, people crossing borders and "taking/stealing" land that's not there's, he's def talking Israel. No doubt. And until he comes out and says differently, that's what I'll believe. Let's be real here, I know it must hurt if you're either from Israel or Jewish and love pearl jam to hear eddie say that. But as others have said, how can u be surprised by his feelings on the matter.
badbrains... no offense taken... and likewise, please take no offense in my comments, as this is merely a discussion from two different viewpoints...
you are misconstruing his words...
the nazis in WW II crossed borders and stole land that didn't belong to them using tax payer funded bombs killing children.
the US crossed borders in Vietnam and both Iraq wars and in Afghanistan and pretty much every conflict we've been involved in (as we have military bases all over the world on land that was not ours) using tax payer funded bombs to kill children
you cannot say he is without a doubt speaking about Israel, when the points you are using to make that claim are true of countless other incidents throughout history.
People seem to forget that a mere 70 years ago, 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust.
www.amazingathletes.com/northchi
You get the Reaper, I get a Mansfield 1998, and all the children of the world sing a song of peace.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
www.amazingathletes.com/northchi
https://www.facebook.com/TheJerusalemPost/posts/582505295204480
this had nothing to do with Israel... and his tone was aimed at the few people who oppress humanity through war, not at Israel, or at the Israeli people.... if anyone thinks ed has any ounce of hate in him for a particular group of people, aside from the elite rulers of nations, then you haven't been following this band and listening to his lyrics...
the rulers of a nation, be it Israel, or the US, or Egypt, or France, or Spain, or wherever, aren't it's people... to be critical of politicians and their actions is not to be critical of the people of that nation and it's the same as being critical of Bush or Obama... it doesn't mean you are critical of the american people.
SkeeterB... he wasn't aiming this at any nation, his hatred is rightfully aimed at those who continue to promote war all over the globe.
www.amazingathletes.com/northchi
If we can agree that the catalyst for this rant was the Israel/Palestine conflict..(and realistically it's the only one that makes sense, because they've played many shows since the ISIS and Ukraine crises began)...then what to make of him speaking about stealing land and giving tax money to drop bombs on children? Only israel is stealing land, not Hamas. Israel, not Hamas, gets US tax dollars....As for dropping bombs on children - how many Israeli children have had a bomb drop on them in this conflict? I believe the answer is zero, while I expect the Palestinian death toll to rise above 200 killed, 2000 injured today. I think THAT is where the anger and frustration is coming from. Yes, from war in general. But if Israel was the catalyst, and the words were framed in a way that only criticizes israel, it's not a stretch to say he was speaking about Israel for parts of the speech - the parts the Israelis are upset about. If he wasn't framing his words to express frustration with Israel, there would not be the outcry from israeli's that is happening now. Both they and the Palestinian solidarity crowd think he was talking about Israel.
If he doesn't want to make a statement as a public figure, and put his life thru the wringer of anti-Semite accusations from the Israel lobby, or if other band members would prefer not to be involved....if he would prefer to speak vaguely and somewhat diplomatically, I understand. But I'm thankful that he at least alluded to the fact that maybe there is a start and end point in the conflict that we've agree was the catalyst for the rant: stealing land.
There are three ways Ed can handle this:
-say it wasn't about Israel and not comment further.
-Say no more about the topic.
-address the controversy and give a clear stance.
I'm guessing #2 wins.
at no point did he call out israel or the israeli people... he's speaking generally... nobody asked my opinion if we should invade Iraq, or to send drones into Pakistan, or fire missiles into all the places we like to fire missiles... a few people behind closed doors who aren't me, who aren't the american public did that... if someone were to then be critical of "America" doing these things, I would know they aren't being critical of me and my fellow countrymen... rather the criticism is solely aimed at the few politicians who made those decisions and are responsible for that policy. And myself as an American, I am appalled at the things american politicians do under our name and feel they shouldn't be free of criticism, especially when they are killing people... in fact that is when we should be most criitcal of our leaders. Criticism of a nation's policies is not criticism of the people of that nation.
so if someone called out my leaders for actions that I had no part in, I know they are not calling me out or have ill will towards me. If the CEO of a company kicks sand in the face of some kids at the beach and people call him an asshole, they aren't calling all the people who work for that company an asshole.
I've never spoken to Ed personally about this, but I can guarantee you that he has no hatred for any country... the guy travels the globe and is shown insanely massive love every where he goes, you don't think he reciprocates that? I've seen no other band where the front man takes the time to try and learn the language of every country he is in so he can connect with the people of that country.
I have often agreed with him, sometimes disagreed, but always made me think. Everyone is allowed to their thoughts, and their points of view. If you value someone's opinion most of the time, its definitely worth thinking about it when you disagree with them. You might not end up agreeing, but some new perspective is always healthy.
And in the end, you can still always choose to disagree.
Nuclear fission