This forum and lines outside the shows were rife with "list" issues during most every stop of the 1st and second legs of the Initial Lightning Bolt 2013 tour, not just this brief swing through Europe.
I'm glad they sent the email, no matter how strange. The only thing I wish had happened is that it was sent out it as the tour began, and not so late in the game. Including tonight, and the 2 shows in England, there are only 3 more non-festival shows on this leg,
Let's do our best to keep this nonsense off the upcoming fall tour, too. If that means an email to GA ticket holding 10c members before every show, making sure everyone is clear, so we dont have to put up with the "entitled" attempting to "organize" the relatively simple procedure that is a line, then I'm down with that.
FYI I'm holding reserved for the fall, so it wont be my issue.
I would be interested to see if any of these selfish arseholes are prepared to defend this nasty list.
Who is everyone hating here? The people that ran the lists or everyone who was on the list? Because just about everybody here that is calling people out and saying they would do this and that and blah, blah would have jumped right on that list if they got to the gig and had number 20 or something. I think everyone is being a little to self righteous here. I was at 4 shows so far and didn't hear anyone complain. And no, I was not on the list, I had seats.
I would be interested to see if any of these selfish arseholes are prepared to defend this nasty list.
Who is everyone hating here? The people that ran the lists or everyone who was on the list? Because just about everybody here that is calling people out and saying they would do this and that and blah, blah would have jumped right on that list if they got to the gig and had number 20 or something. I think everyone is being a little to self righteous here. I was at 4 shows so far and didn't hear anyone complain. And no, I was not on the list, I had seats.
Why would you have heard anyone complaining if you weren't even anywhere near the GA line? I have never been in a list, but I've witnessed the chaos that ensues when the time when doors open gets near and suddenly 100 people show up and go to the front of the line. I'm talking screaming, yelling, etc... and it's not angry fans getting screwed who are yelling either (we all.talk to earn have other about how much bullshit it all is). It's the dick heads running the list and the ones cutting to the front of the line who are acting insane. They start yelling at everyone who won't back up and let them all slip back into line after being gone for hours. They get panicky and angry when hundreds in line won't make room for the cheaters. It's disgusting. The scene right before doors opening in Vancouver last year was absolutely shameful. I don't know how some of those people sleep at night. You think that it's self-righteous to call out scammers and cheaters?
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No, I think it's self righteous to for everybody to bash a list when in all probability they would join it if their number was low.
Sorry, that doesn't make sense. That people's names are written on a paper isn't the point. The point is that people leave the line for huge chunks of time and then come back and cut right in front of the people.who have been waiting all day. People who have their name on the list but sit in line the whole time aren't the problem. The list allows people to abuse the system (and that fans take it upon themselves to start a list and make up rules for everyone is very troubling). That is the issue and why the list has to go all together.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I would be interested to see if any of these selfish arseholes are prepared to defend this nasty list.
Who is everyone hating here? The people that ran the lists or everyone who was on the list? Because just about everybody here that is calling people out and saying they would do this and that and blah, blah would have jumped right on that list if they got to the gig and had number 20 or something. I think everyone is being a little to self righteous here. I was at 4 shows so far and didn't hear anyone complain. And no, I was not on the list, I had seats.
It's not about "hating" and we are not the ones being self-righteous. The whole point is the list isn't merely a list of those in line. It is/was used as a means by which a handful of people could manipulate the system, to save spots for others who would not or could not wait in line. Those who joined the list were either unaware of the sinister motives of its creators, or knew but decided to take part anyway, really making them no better than the ones who started it. Yes, it would be nice to check in once and be free to leave, go have fun, and return right before showtime, ignoring the fact that many, many others arrived after me and stayed the duration. But that is not how PJ GA rules are set up. They clearly state it is first come, first served. If show up and there are already 100 people in line, good for them, they obviously wanted it more than me and will happily be #101. But if I show up, there are 10 people in line, then all of a sudden I'm told that I am actually #101 because of a list created by self-appointed line monitors, that's total bs. If you want to go to preparties or can't wait in line, go for reserved tix or accept the fact you will be joining the GA line at the end.
No, I think it's self righteous to for everybody to bash a list when in all probability they would join it if their number was low.
Sorry, the doesn't make sense. That people's names are written on a paper isn't the point. The point is that people leave the line for huge chunks of time and then come back and cut right in front of the people.who have been waiting all day. People who have their name on the list but sit in line the whole time aren't the problem. The list allows people to abuse the system (and that fans take it upon themselves to start a list and make up rules for everyone is very troubling). That is the issue and why the list has to go all together.
I'm with you on that point...I don't think people should be allowed to leave other than for a bathroom break or food. The list is too easy to abuse and no, I don't agree with it unless it is an official list run by 10c. But everyone here acting all tough and saying what they would do if confronted with a list system is mostly BS. If you get to a show and you're number 10, well, after all the tough words here, you're probably gonna join that list. That's all I meant by self righteousness.
No, I think it's self righteous to for everybody to bash a list when in all probability they would join it if their number was low.
Sorry, the doesn't make sense. That people's names are written on a paper isn't the point. The point is that people leave the line for huge chunks of time and then come back and cut right in front of the people.who have been waiting all day. People who have their name on the list but sit in line the whole time aren't the problem. The list allows people to abuse the system (and that fans take it upon themselves to start a list and make up rules for everyone is very troubling). That is the issue and why the list has to go all together.
I'm with you on that point...I don't think people should be allowed to leave other than for a bathroom break or food. The list is too easy to abuse and no, I don't agree with it unless it is an official list run by 10c. But everyone here acting all tough and saying what they would do if confronted with a list system is mostly BS. If you get to a show and you're number 10, well, after all the tough words here, you're probably gonna join that list. That's all I meant by self righteousness.
Well, i can't speak for anyone else, but there is no way I'd put my name on that list. I'd just get in line and tell anyone who tries to cut in front of me to go fuck themselves.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
with all the nonsense talk about violence and fairness, i think we (i) may have forgotten the bigger picture here. to me, this encapsulates my feelings on the matter...
I would be interested to see if any of these selfish arseholes are prepared to defend this nasty list.
Who is everyone hating here? The people that ran the lists or everyone who was on the list? Because just about everybody here that is calling people out and saying they would do this and that and blah, blah would have jumped right on that list if they got to the gig and had number 20 or something. I think everyone is being a little to self righteous here. I was at 4 shows so far and didn't hear anyone complain. And no, I was not on the list, I had seats.
People here are complaining about the people starting and managing the lists. Not the people on them.
You have had no choice really to not use them, you would have gotten past by all the people on the lists. The problem starts as soon as people start getting on the list as you have no choice not to after that. You cant have two competing queing systems, one with numbers, and one with a standard line as there is no way to differentiate whos really first. Thats why you have to stick with the numbers if it starts.
I complained about the numbering system to as many as I could at all my shows, to people around me, and to the so called fans starting them.
PJ
2000 Roskilde, 2006 Barcelona, 2007 London, Copenhagen, 2008 New York 1, New York 2, 2009 Berlin, 2010 Dublin, Belfast, 2012 Amsterdam 1, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, 2013 Brooklyn 1, Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014 Milan, Trieste, Berlin, Stockholm, Milton Keynes
People leaving for hours is only one of many problems, here is a selection of issues explaining why this is bs!
-The people owning the list has no official authority but expect everyone to follow their command (what happens if you rightly question their self-taken authority?)
-There are no standard rules between shows and rules are made by the list managers (means they can set the rules to their benefit, for example so they can go sleep in the hotel which they obvisouly do)
-When you come to a show you may not even know about the list and go to the line without getting a number (realising later about the list and then has lost queing time, and no, not everyone has been to loads of shows, are you expected to be aware of the list on your first show?)
-When you come to a show you dont know who to get the number from (so instead of just getting in line you need to run around looking for someone you dont know. I wouldnt be surprised if the people creating the lists all know eachother, so they wont have to spend much time looking, or will get a number via phone...)
-Numbers har stopped being given out after reaching random levels (meaning that at some point the people arriving cant get a number, and are forced to sit in the queue while the people on the list can do whatever they want and just pass everyone with their number when they come back)
People owning and managing the lists are selfish so called fans and Im not surprised they're not here to defend their system. I would like someone from their side respond to the issues above.
PJ
2000 Roskilde, 2006 Barcelona, 2007 London, Copenhagen, 2008 New York 1, New York 2, 2009 Berlin, 2010 Dublin, Belfast, 2012 Amsterdam 1, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, 2013 Brooklyn 1, Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014 Milan, Trieste, Berlin, Stockholm, Milton Keynes
I have no problem with a list. If done properly, and not abused, it just a tool. I think the problem lies were people are leaving for hours only to return and piss people off. The only place I was on a "list" was Wrigley and it seemed to work fine there. In Detroit, just to leave for food it's going to take you an hour to get to a restaurant ,get you food and get back. All the list should be used for is the time you have to leave and when you get back, you can have a reference to where you were when you left. No biggie and there is no place for telling somebody to Fuck Off,
People leaving for hours is only one of many problems, here is a selection of issues explaining why this is bs!
-The people owning the list has no official authority but expect everyone to follow their command (what happens if you rightly question their self-taken authority?)
-There are no standard rules between shows and rules are made by the list managers (means they can set the rules to their benefit, for example so they can go sleep in the hotel which they obvisouly do)
-When you come to a show you may not even know about the list and go to the line without getting a number (realising later about the list and then has lost queing time, and no, not everyone has been to loads of shows, are you expected to be aware of the list on your first show?)
-When you come to a show you dont know who to get the number from (so instead of just getting in line you need to run around looking for someone you dont know. I wouldnt be surprised if the people creating the lists all know eachother, so they wont have to spend much time looking, or will get a number via phone...)
-Numbers har stopped being given out after reaching random levels (meaning that at some point the people arriving cant get a number, and are forced to sit in the queue while the people on the list can do whatever they want and just pass everyone with their number when they come back)
People owning and managing the lists are selfish so called fans and Im not surprised they're not here to defend their system. I would like someone from their side respond to the issues above.
All excellent points! They all explain perfectly why a fan-run list is not workable.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I would be interested to see if any of these selfish arseholes are prepared to defend this nasty list.
I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.
I would be interested to see if any of these selfish arseholes are prepared to defend this nasty list.
I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.
So you're choosing to ignore the facts. Okay then.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I would be interested to see if any of these selfish arseholes are prepared to defend this nasty list.
Who is everyone hating here? The people that ran the lists or everyone who was on the list? Because just about everybody here that is calling people out and saying they would do this and that and blah, blah would have jumped right on that list if they got to the gig and had number 20 or something. I think everyone is being a little to self righteous here. I was at 4 shows so far and didn't hear anyone complain. And no, I was not on the list, I had seats.
The people that think they are better than the fans that sit in line for hours and then just think they have the right to go to the front of the line five minutes before the show. And who knows if those people EVER set foot in a line...or whether the list was just handed to someone after it was created. Basically, people running the list would be first and foremost...thinking that they can pretty much dictate who sits (or stands) where for particular shows...followed by those on the list...especially if those people knew how this list was operating.
I Know All The Rules But The Rules Do Not Know Me.
I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.
I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?
I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.
I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?
I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.
There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.
Post edited by Luckytwn1 on
0
Options
WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.
I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?
I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.
There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.
Did you read the original post? You think people checking in every six hours and skipping over people that actually wait is fair? I've read multiple posts on here with people stating similar stories from first hand accounts. Sounds corrupt to me. Unless they are all lying.
I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.
I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?
I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.
There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.
Get in line and stay there really simple. Arbitrary list creators started at arbitrary times with easy means to add friends before anyone else even gets opportunity to be added. It's a very very bad deal for everyone but the list makers and their friends. This cannot in any way be defended using any logic.
I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.
I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?
I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.
There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.
Did you read the original post? You think people checking in every six hours and skipping over people that actually wait is fair? I've read multiple posts on here with people stating similar stories from first hand accounts. Sounds corrupt to me. Unless they are all lying.
Of course, it's fair. People are told when the check-ins are. If someone chooses to stay, that's totally up to them. Last year, I was on the GA line for Bruce in Munich. I arrived found the list, was given my number, and between check-ins I went to the BMW Museum, got a bite to eat, etc.
0
Options
WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.
I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?
I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.
There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.
Did you read the original post? You think people checking in every six hours and skipping over people that actually wait is fair? I've read multiple posts on here with people stating similar stories from first hand accounts. Sounds corrupt to me. Unless they are all lying.
Of course, it's fair. People are told when the check-ins are. If someone chooses to stay, that's totally up to them. Last year, I was on the GA line for Bruce in Munich. I arrived found the list, was given my number, and between check-ins I went to the BMW Museum, got a bite to eat, etc.
And the people who don't go to every show, have no idea of an unofficial list, and show up to actually wait in line should just all eat shit? There is absolutely nothing fair about the original post. If it was an endorsed/official policy like Bruce, that is one thing. Ten club stated prior to the tour that there is no list. So the list is just some people buddying up to help themselves and holds as much weight as me declaring myself the King of Nigeria. Even if I had 500 people hanging out with me saying, "yeah he's the King of Nigeria because we say so", it wouldn't be valid.
Are there any reports from Oslo today regarding this issue? Was the list stopped or does it live on in spite of 10c's email? I feel like this will be a tough thing to eliminate completely.
I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.
I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?
I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.
There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.
Did you read the original post? You think people checking in every six hours and skipping over people that actually wait is fair? I've read multiple posts on here with people stating similar stories from first hand accounts. Sounds corrupt to me. Unless they are all lying.
Of course, it's fair. People are told when the check-ins are. If someone chooses to stay, that's totally up to them. Last year, I was on the GA line for Bruce in Munich. I arrived found the list, was given my number, and between check-ins I went to the BMW Museum, got a bite to eat, etc.
It's a totally different situation if the band's reps are in charge and everyone is informed of the process by the official fan club and it's monitored and controlled. That isn't the case here.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It's the difference between asking yourself how early can you get to a show and wait in line the entire time (except for an understandable bathroom break) or how early can you get to a show to put your name on a list and go back to your hotel to sleep for 6 hours, check back in for 10 mins and take another 6 hour break.
People who show up to wait are committed to staying the entire time and so should everyone else in line. You can't create a list off a premise that only a few are aware of and the band doesn't officially support. NO MORE LIST!!
Comments
I'm glad they sent the email, no matter how strange. The only thing I wish had happened is that it was sent out it as the tour began, and not so late in the game. Including tonight, and the 2 shows in England, there are only 3 more non-festival shows on this leg,
Let's do our best to keep this nonsense off the upcoming fall tour, too. If that means an email to GA ticket holding 10c members before every show, making sure everyone is clear, so we dont have to put up with the "entitled" attempting to "organize" the relatively simple procedure that is a line, then I'm down with that.
FYI I'm holding reserved for the fall, so it wont be my issue.
http://www.last.fm/user/olivavu
It's simple:
If you want to be near the front of the queue, then get there early and queue.
Otherwise, join the back of the queue when you arrive.
http://www.last.fm/user/olivavu
You think that it's self-righteous to call out scammers and cheaters?
No, I think it's self righteous to for everybody to bash a list when in all probability they would join it if their number was low.
Last: SEA2 08/10/2018
Next: ??
http://expressobeans.com/members/collections.php?id=29417
“I think you won, but I enjoyed the fight” - EV
You have had no choice really to not use them, you would have gotten past by all the people on the lists. The problem starts as soon as people start getting on the list as you have no choice not to after that. You cant have two competing queing systems, one with numbers, and one with a standard line as there is no way to differentiate whos really first. Thats why you have to stick with the numbers if it starts.
I complained about the numbering system to as many as I could at all my shows, to people around me, and to the so called fans starting them.
2000 Roskilde, 2006 Barcelona, 2007 London, Copenhagen, 2008 New York 1, New York 2, 2009 Berlin, 2010 Dublin, Belfast, 2012 Amsterdam 1, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, 2013 Brooklyn 1, Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014 Milan, Trieste, Berlin, Stockholm, Milton Keynes
EV
2012 Manchester, London 1, London 2
-The people owning the list has no official authority but expect everyone to follow their command (what happens if you rightly question their self-taken authority?)
-There are no standard rules between shows and rules are made by the list managers (means they can set the rules to their benefit, for example so they can go sleep in the hotel which they obvisouly do)
-When you come to a show you may not even know about the list and go to the line without getting a number (realising later about the list and then has lost queing time, and no, not everyone has been to loads of shows, are you expected to be aware of the list on your first show?)
-When you come to a show you dont know who to get the number from (so instead of just getting in line you need to run around looking for someone you dont know. I wouldnt be surprised if the people creating the lists all know eachother, so they wont have to spend much time looking, or will get a number via phone...)
-Numbers har stopped being given out after reaching random levels (meaning that at some point the people arriving cant get a number, and are forced to sit in the queue while the people on the list can do whatever they want and just pass everyone with their number when they come back)
People owning and managing the lists are selfish so called fans and Im not surprised they're not here to defend their system. I would like someone from their side respond to the issues above.
2000 Roskilde, 2006 Barcelona, 2007 London, Copenhagen, 2008 New York 1, New York 2, 2009 Berlin, 2010 Dublin, Belfast, 2012 Amsterdam 1, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, 2013 Brooklyn 1, Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014 Milan, Trieste, Berlin, Stockholm, Milton Keynes
EV
2012 Manchester, London 1, London 2
They have absolutely no right whatsoever to tell others where they are in a queue.
Queues work by one person starting at the front and others sequentially joining the end.
That is it.
This list is well out of order and needs to be stopped immediately.
http://www.last.fm/user/olivavu
There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
People who show up to wait are committed to staying the entire time and so should everyone else in line. You can't create a list off a premise that only a few are aware of and the band doesn't officially support. NO MORE LIST!!