This has to stop

Malroth

...

WhatYouTaughtMe

SO37031 said:

I have been to about five hundred live shows of various artists through the years.
I have always thought the people on the rails didn't quite get it.
There was never anything better than a mosh pit.
I am forty now and I miss the mosh pit. I just imagine those five rows back in ga at a pearl jam concert would be the mosh pit. Love each other.

Haha, maybe that is what this crowd needs to release some frustration! A mosh pit!

Malroth

SO37031 said:

I have been to about five hundred live shows of various artists through the years.
I have always thought the people on the rails didn't quite get it.
There was never anything better than the mosh pit.
I am forty now and I miss the mosh pit. I just imagine those five rows back in ga at a pearl jam concert would be the mosh pit. Love each other.

PJ_Soul

melissachun said:

JimmyV said:

It feels like we are heading towards something ugly.

Maybe, maybe not. It really seems like the listers are a small group vs the rest of us. If they're smart, they'll accept the free ride is over and give up their lists and sharpies. I'm curious - does anyone know of an instance where it got ugly? For as long as it sounds like it's been going on, I'm surprised there haven't already been altercations.

I don't think it's ever got ugly, as in violence, and I really don't see it going that way.

But seriously, if 10c even simply had a big sign set up stating that there is no list allowed and that people can't leave the line for longer than 20 minutes or something it probably wouldn't happen. Really, fixing this would be so simple for 10C. No, I don't see it as their responsibility. I'm just saying they could help with little effort if they felt like going that way.

shetellsherself

Oh I'm so confused!! I totally agree that it's not fair to place your name on a list, write a number on your hand and go off to the pre party, hotel, nap or whatever expecting to rejoin your place in line hours later and likely cutting in front of others who have waited it out all those hours. I definitely don't want any part in that. However, I have GA tix for 2 shows this fall. These are the first GA tix I've ever had to pj shows. I'm really hoping to get as close as possible. I don't drink and am not comfortable in a bar scene so won't be attending the pre party anyway unless it's in a more restaurant like atmosphere (nothing against those who do choose to drink, it's just not my thing anymore). My shows are in Tulsa and Lincoln so I'm not too worried about missing the action or the hot tourist attractions of the city. Plus, I'm only there for pj anyway. I plan to stand in line as soon as I get there to get as close as I can. If I don't put my name on the list I risk having a large group of people cut in front of me last minute. If I do, I'm caving to an unjust system and by default supporting it's existence. I'm sure I'm over thinking this but that's inevitable after reading this entire thread. What to do?

melissachun

shetellsherself said:

Oh I'm so confused!! ... I'm sure I'm over thinking this but that's inevitable after reading this entire thread. What to do?

This will be my first GA experience, too, and my anxiety over the stupid lists is what brought me to the forum. I actually feel better, because even though it pisses me off, I know I'm not alone. The bottom line is that the list is only valid if those who waited in line all day allow it to be valid. From the posts in this thread and a few others, it seems unlikely that the lists will mean anything. I will tell you that the only people who will be in front of me are the ones who were there when I arrived, stayed all day, and are still there when the doors open (1 buddy, bathroom breaks, etc are ok). I don't plan to physically try and stop anyone, but I will not give in easily and I hope the others in line will take the same stance. Relax...and just focus on how great the shows will be!

KC2917

To the weasley little beady eyed fuck in the blue hat running "the list" at Amsterdam 1...

I'm the guy who questioned you and your dumb fucking list before the show. You seriously need to take a step back and question exactly who the fuck you think you are, and what gives you the right to tell people YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW what to do. People have always lined up for rock shows. That's just the way it goes. If I get there before you, I get in before you, plain and simple. If someone in line needs to take a leak, people get that. This isn't a new concept. Remember when I told you you're sucking the rock and roll right out of rock and roll? That's exactly what you're doing. As a diehard fan of Pearl Jam, I'd like to tell you you're an embarrassment to the rest of us. Did I seriously witness you do a roll call of a group of adults??? Come on. At least there were more people interested in partying at the bar before the show and having a good time then there were people abiding by your dumb made up rules. I don't usually mean to come off so angry, but what I witnessed seriously pissed me off. Adults acting like fucking children. I hope to god the 10c gets involved and puts and end to these Gestapo-type "fans."

That felt good. End of rant.

Luckytwn1

KC2917 said:

To the weasley little beady eyed fuck in the blue hat running "the list" at Amsterdam 1...

I'm the guy who questioned you and your dumb fucking list before the show. You seriously need to take a step back and question exactly who the fuck you think you are, and what gives you the right to tell people YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW what to do. People have always lined up for rock shows. That's just the way it goes. If I get there before you, I get in before you, plain and simple. If someone in line needs to take a leak, people get that. This isn't a new concept. Remember when I told you you're sucking the rock and roll right out of rock and roll? That's exactly what you're doing. As a diehard fan of Pearl Jam, I'd like to tell you you're an embarrassment to the rest of us. Did I seriously witness you do a roll call of a group of adults??? Come on. At least there were more people interested in partying at the bar before the show and having a good time then there were people abiding by your dumb made up rules. I don't usually mean to come off so angry, but what I witnessed seriously pissed me off. Adults acting like fucking children. I hope to god the 10c gets involved and puts and end to these Gestapo-type "fans."

That felt good. End of rant.

There have been roll calls at every Springsteen show in Europe for over a decade (except for a couple of shows in Italy on the last tour where a random lottery was used for GA entry). In the Bruce world, the list is run by fans but is honored by the Springsteen org. Reading this thread is hilarious to see such hysteria. The people running the list are doing you a favor because running the list is hard work. Show up, get your number, be there for roll calls, and the day goes smoothly and much more pleasant than standing there.

KC2917

Luckytwn1 said:

KC2917 said:

To the weasley little beady eyed fuck in the blue hat running "the list" at Amsterdam 1...

I'm the guy who questioned you and your dumb fucking list before the show. You seriously need to take a step back and question exactly who the fuck you think you are, and what gives you the right to tell people YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW what to do. People have always lined up for rock shows. That's just the way it goes. If I get there before you, I get in before you, plain and simple. If someone in line needs to take a leak, people get that. This isn't a new concept. Remember when I told you you're sucking the rock and roll right out of rock and roll? That's exactly what you're doing. As a diehard fan of Pearl Jam, I'd like to tell you you're an embarrassment to the rest of us. Did I seriously witness you do a roll call of a group of adults??? Come on. At least there were more people interested in partying at the bar before the show and having a good time then there were people abiding by your dumb made up rules. I don't usually mean to come off so angry, but what I witnessed seriously pissed me off. Adults acting like fucking children. I hope to god the 10c gets involved and puts and end to these Gestapo-type "fans."

That felt good. End of rant.

There have been roll calls at every Springsteen show in Europe for over a decade (except for a couple of shows in Italy on the last tour where a random lottery was used for GA entry). In the Bruce world, the list is run by fans but is honored by the Springsteen org. Reading this thread is hilarious to see such hysteria. The people running the list are doing you a favor because running the list is hard work. Show up, get your number, be there for roll calls, and the day goes smoothly and much more pleasant than standing there.

Telling me how I should feel about it isn't exactly the greatest response you could've given to my rant about people telling other people what to do. It is, however, comically ironic.

iamloco724

I agree with the person that said maybe just have 10c make sure a sign was posted outside the front of the line saying there is no list all list are banned that would get rid of it right there

iamloco724

Luckytwn1 said:

KC2917 said:

To the weasley little beady eyed fuck in the blue hat running "the list" at Amsterdam 1...

I'm the guy who questioned you and your dumb fucking list before the show. You seriously need to take a step back and question exactly who the fuck you think you are, and what gives you the right to tell people YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW what to do. People have always lined up for rock shows. That's just the way it goes. If I get there before you, I get in before you, plain and simple. If someone in line needs to take a leak, people get that. This isn't a new concept. Remember when I told you you're sucking the rock and roll right out of rock and roll? That's exactly what you're doing. As a diehard fan of Pearl Jam, I'd like to tell you you're an embarrassment to the rest of us. Did I seriously witness you do a roll call of a group of adults??? Come on. At least there were more people interested in partying at the bar before the show and having a good time then there were people abiding by your dumb made up rules. I don't usually mean to come off so angry, but what I witnessed seriously pissed me off. Adults acting like fucking children. I hope to god the 10c gets involved and puts and end to these Gestapo-type "fans."

That felt good. End of rant.

There have been roll calls at every Springsteen show in Europe for over a decade (except for a couple of shows in Italy on the last tour where a random lottery was used for GA entry). In the Bruce world, the list is run by fans but is honored by the Springsteen org. Reading this thread is hilarious to see such hysteria. The people running the list are doing you a favor because running the list is hard work. Show up, get your number, be there for roll calls, and the day goes smoothly and much more pleasant than standing there.

I hope you aren't being serious with that line that they are doing people a favor

RiotZact

Luckytwn1 said:

KC2917 said:

To the weasley little beady eyed fuck in the blue hat running "the list" at Amsterdam 1...

I'm the guy who questioned you and your dumb fucking list before the show. You seriously need to take a step back and question exactly who the fuck you think you are, and what gives you the right to tell people YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW what to do. People have always lined up for rock shows. That's just the way it goes. If I get there before you, I get in before you, plain and simple. If someone in line needs to take a leak, people get that. This isn't a new concept. Remember when I told you you're sucking the rock and roll right out of rock and roll? That's exactly what you're doing. As a diehard fan of Pearl Jam, I'd like to tell you you're an embarrassment to the rest of us. Did I seriously witness you do a roll call of a group of adults??? Come on. At least there were more people interested in partying at the bar before the show and having a good time then there were people abiding by your dumb made up rules. I don't usually mean to come off so angry, but what I witnessed seriously pissed me off. Adults acting like fucking children. I hope to god the 10c gets involved and puts and end to these Gestapo-type "fans."

That felt good. End of rant.

There have been roll calls at every Springsteen show in Europe for over a decade (except for a couple of shows in Italy on the last tour where a random lottery was used for GA entry). In the Bruce world, the list is run by fans but is honored by the Springsteen org. Reading this thread is hilarious to see such hysteria. The people running the list are doing you a favor because running the list is hard work. Show up, get your number, be there for roll calls, and the day goes smoothly and much more pleasant than standing there.

I don't understand your point though, just cus it goes on at Bruce shows means we should approve of it?

whofeelslikeadrank

RiotZact said:

just cus it goes on at Bruce shows means we should approve of it?

well, he IS the boss...

Luckytwn1

RiotZact said:

Luckytwn1 said:

KC2917 said:

To the weasley little beady eyed fuck in the blue hat running "the list" at Amsterdam 1...

I'm the guy who questioned you and your dumb fucking list before the show. You seriously need to take a step back and question exactly who the fuck you think you are, and what gives you the right to tell people YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW what to do. People have always lined up for rock shows. That's just the way it goes. If I get there before you, I get in before you, plain and simple. If someone in line needs to take a leak, people get that. This isn't a new concept. Remember when I told you you're sucking the rock and roll right out of rock and roll? That's exactly what you're doing. As a diehard fan of Pearl Jam, I'd like to tell you you're an embarrassment to the rest of us. Did I seriously witness you do a roll call of a group of adults??? Come on. At least there were more people interested in partying at the bar before the show and having a good time then there were people abiding by your dumb made up rules. I don't usually mean to come off so angry, but what I witnessed seriously pissed me off. Adults acting like fucking children. I hope to god the 10c gets involved and puts and end to these Gestapo-type "fans."

That felt good. End of rant.

There have been roll calls at every Springsteen show in Europe for over a decade (except for a couple of shows in Italy on the last tour where a random lottery was used for GA entry). In the Bruce world, the list is run by fans but is honored by the Springsteen org. Reading this thread is hilarious to see such hysteria. The people running the list are doing you a favor because running the list is hard work. Show up, get your number, be there for roll calls, and the day goes smoothly and much more pleasant than standing there.

I don't understand your point though, just cus it goes on at Bruce shows means we should approve of it?

My point is that it has been used by fans at hundreds of shows for one of the largest touring acts on the planet and has worked extremely well. Clearly, since there is a lot of overlap between the fan bases, whoever started with the lists basically adopted the system that has been used successfully many times before. It's not some kind of big conspiracy. If the 10C wants to outlaw the list, they are free to do so.

pdalowsky

People commenting on things they haven't observed on third and fourth hand information. That's hardly conducive to making a good solid informed opinion. In fact the majority of this thread is the same people making wild assumptions and making the same stale comments.

I haven't organized a list nor would I wish to. It's a thankless task. But contrary to the nonsense and judgemental posts above the chap who organized the list in Berlin seemed a good guy. Led by example unlike others who have done the list. He didn't disappear to sleep in a comfy bed, I didn't observe him giving any friends special attention as he was largely on his own most of the day trying to keep things honest and genuine and observing the line.

Now I don't know the dude - I might have said three words to him all day but the comments above which were broad brushed and applied to all who run these things appear widely inaccurate and posted by folks reacting to Facebook stories on the other side of the atlantic or a disgruntled few ... (But most commonly folk who weren't at the show ) are off target. I believe the guy stayed in line from starting - and tried at all times to keep things in fair order. Why would he do that when he is number one ? Anyone considered that he gives a shit about others ? Are people really that self obsessed that they cannot understand a guy taking time out to ensure others around him get a fair deal? The look after number one mentality really shines through

My only disclaimer is this observation only applies to Berlin and this one gentleman .... Things may have been different elsewhere. Once again I haven't even a clue what his name is in case someone wants to suggest a conspiracy and believe I simply have his back

One question - why would anyone who got there 50th object to taking a number if they are intending to stick around ? Why would anyone want to be that difficult ?

Take the number and take your spot ... If its to come back here and say you stood up to something that is in place to try and offer a little order and get some back pats, that's a little lame.

The list can work but some are determined to be confrontational at this point and that's not cool. Even people who arrive early and refuse to participate ? Why when you can take part observe the line and help fellow fans keep order? You'd think human beings would want a nice spirit and a little community down there.

So much bullshit about conspiracies and shams, so many opinions that only 30 people want it. In Milan and Berlin it was a handful of people who didn't want it. Those arriving late. Not many. The majority were quick to seek the list and add their name. But of course people are claiming otherwise here - the people who just weren't there

I saw the other thread that a guy wants to go to Leeds - find the list and post it before pissing on it. Good old aggression saves the day. The sad part wasnt that post ...if was the 30-40 coming in behind him with the +1, post of the year and back slapping .
Interestingly again those who haven't attended yet but will do in Leeds and have made up their minds third hand that they will act on the stories they hear and screw any attempt to have civility and order.

If a line is abused - fine - then act - but to attend with that preconceived idea of getting angry with a list rather than trying it out absolutely sucks.

Use your own eyes people and you never know you might just be able go form your own opinion

pdalowsky

Oh and the suggestions of their being a blow up and violence are way off mark. I've only done two shows ... And whilst people have disagreed at times they have done so very maturely. Spoke to each other and remained calm at all times. Aggression hasn't been remotely close at any time.

That is a major over reaction to third hand Internet information and observations. People at these shows tend to be good people and adults. Fighting isn't close to the agenda. So please knock that on the head. There is a little sentiment coming through in posts about 'when I go to my show people better get ready because no one fucks with me'. ... Lets not forget that is mostly a reaction to something they have read about and haven't yet seen .... I dare say its easy to post on the Internet such things. But when they arrive early to take a spot and observe the line and their position I very much doubt that that fire within will continue to burn.

But till then this is a symptom of negativity breeding difficulty.

JV130312

I find it curious that the Wishlist has been mentioned more than a number of times here yet no one has come to comment on whether they are or are not involved...

JV130312

10C should issue ticket priority by zip code. You live within a 50-mile radius of Philadelphia and are a 10C Member, you get priority...lol

badbrains

pdalowsky said:

Oh and the suggestions of their being a blow up and violence are way off mark. I've only done two shows ... And whilst people have disagreed at times they have done so very maturely. Spoke to each other and remained calm at all times. Aggression hasn't been remotely close at any time.

That is a major over reaction to third hand Internet information and observations. People at these shows tend to be good people and adults. Fighting isn't close to the agenda. So please knock that on the head. There is a little sentiment coming through in posts about 'when I go to my show people better get ready because no one fucks with me'. ... Lets not forget that is mostly a reaction to something they have read about and haven't yet seen .... I dare say its easy to post on the Internet such things. But when they arrive early to take a spot and observe the line and their position I very much doubt that that fire within will continue to burn.

But till then this is a symptom of negativity breeding difficulty.

Sorry buddy, but NO list means NO issue. Without this corny ass list, none of us would be having this discussion. I'm not calling you out and not trying to get confrontational with you Pdalowsky, it's that we're having a problem with people abusing it and so hense we should just end the practice. People want rail, like EVERYONE else has ALREADY said, get in line and put in your time.

I was at Amsterdam both nites. When I got there, there was probably 20-25 people there. While I was waiting in line for my tix, I saw groups of people coming in and basically cutting people in line. Ironic that they all showed up around the same time as if they were all somewhere and left that place together.

No list, no problem. Simple as that.

strummers

pdalowsky said:

One question - why would anyone who got there 50th object to taking a number if they are intending to stick around ? Why would anyone want to be that difficult ?

Take the number and take your spot ... If its to come back here and say you stood up to something that is in place to try and offer a little order and get some back pats, that's a little lame.

We took numbers when we arrived at the Stadthalle, about 60ish people were on the list but not present. Come the midnight "roll call" about 40ish additional people turned up for 10 mins then left again straight away being told they only had to come back at 6am. Even though it definitely didn't look like all of the people from the list were there, as far as I could see, no-one got crossed off the list anyway.

I voiced my issues, saying it went against what was in the 10c email, didn't shout or get aggressive (although I may have said it was BS that so many people weren't actually there ). I didn't appear to get any support. Looking back, I don't blame them for that. They were doing it right and it can be (it was!) difficult to speak up against the majority and say "look, I don't think this is fair" - I do totally understand that.

At that point we decided we had 3 choices:
a) queue for a crazy amount of hours only to have 60 people cut in front of us before show time
b) leave and cross our names off the list
c) go along with the 'rules' and come back at 6am for a check in

I admit I was angry and felt like we'd been screwed. I couldn't in all good conscience go with option c, so we opted to make a stand and go for b.

Maybe it wasn't a good idea to come here and post what happened and how I felt, perhaps I should have slept on I first.

As I've said before, we have often lined up early and had our names on lists, but for previous tours it's always been that the people on the list have actually sat and waited. If that's the case I'm all good with the list/numbers as it helps when queues are moved/barriers set up etc. of course there are always a few people who try their luck and disappear for long periods of time. However, the vast, vast majority have always been great people who did actually stay outside the venue.

In Vienna that definitely wasn't the case, there were around 15ish people who were doing it right (good on you!) despite these made up rules about having 3-6 hour breaks during the previous day and night. Based on my personal experience of that day, there were a lot of people who weren't following 10c's etiquette!

I don't want pats on the back, for people to be violent or aggressive. I just want it to be fair for all and for queuing to actually mean waiting outside the venue until show-time (minus bathroom/take out food breaks etc.). By all means keep the lists as long as the 10c etiquette 'rules' are adhered to. Is that too much to ask?

I am an idealist at the end of the day!