America's Gun Violence

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://time.com/4371452/orlando-shooting-ar-15-military-civilian-family/

OK so I read a ton on Eugene Stoner over the years and never herd him say that and I was right, his family didn't either.  That's fine.

Did you read the article?

“Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News. “He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events.”

yeah....I read it....did you?  Right there in front of you

oftenreading

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

154 rounds in 5 minutes. Into first and second graders. One round every two seconds, on average. 10 magazines holding 30 rounds each. Acceptable? Modifications can make it quicker, correct?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE92R0EM20130328

You can  do this with a handgun.

But do they? Seriously, do the people who engage in mass shootings tend to use handguns for them? No. There’s a reason why they like theses guns that isn’t being captured in your reductionist argument. Limiting access does limit these shootings. 

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

154 rounds in 5 minutes. Into first and second graders. One round every two seconds, on average. 10 magazines holding 30 rounds each. Acceptable? Modifications can make it quicker, correct?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE92R0EM20130328

You can  do this with a handgun.

Acceptable?

Well you make an argument about one thing then seeing that the weapon you want to constrict really isn't the only one that can do it so then you'll go after the next one.

This is why people don't want new restrictions because it will never stop.  You won't be happy with one thing and will keep piling up new restrictions.

Gern Blansten

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

I fear people with weapons wether they are guns, rifles more than people with out them! I feel safer in a home without weapons than in a home with weapons ...

I respect that; Everyone is different.  But just because you (as in gun control people) don’t like weapons doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to own one. 

Agree.  It's the fact that people are getting killed in the USA by firearms at such a high rate vs other countries that means you shouldn't be able to own just any weapon and any ammo that you want.

Here is the thing though, you can't just own ANY weapon of your choosing.

Ammo doesn't mean squat if you don't have the firearm to put it in but the only ammo I see that should be throttled is steel core which is in effect.

anything that allows you to mow down a classroom with one pull should be illegal. 

And that gun is illegal to own without extensive backround checks and very, very expensive to own.

so it's not illegal. 

No one is going to spend thousands of dollars and go through all those background checks just to use that gun in a crime.  

so how are these guns getting in the hands of mass shooters? many of them teens/young adults? honest question. because if they are so hard to obtain, something is going wrong. 

Bud no one is using "machine guns" in these shootings, they are using semi-automatic weapons.  "machine guns" are fully automatic, you keep your finger on the trigger and bullets fly out until the mag is empty.  Meaning if I have a 30 round mag (30 bullets) and I keep my finger on the trigger, all 30 bullets will fire unless there is a jam, etc.
A semi-automatic is every time you pull a trigger a bullet is fired.  So in order to empty a 30 round mag you have to pull the trigger 30 times.

Fully automatic is not as accurate as semi-automatic however virtually no one possesses fully automatic weapons.  

So I have a semi-automatic shotgun that holds five rounds, every time I pull the trigger one shell is fired.  You can have semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and handguns.  One pull, one bullet.  Got it my man?

The Vegas shooter used a bump stock.  I suppose you would argue that fully automatic is less accurate so victims have a better chance of avoiding a kill shot?

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

154 rounds in 5 minutes. Into first and second graders. One round every two seconds, on average. 10 magazines holding 30 rounds each. Acceptable? Modifications can make it quicker, correct?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE92R0EM20130328

You can  do this with a handgun.

Acceptable?

Well you make an argument about one thing then seeing that the weapon you want to constrict really isn't the only one that can do it so then you'll go after the next one.

This is why people don't want new restrictions because it will never stop.  You won't be happy with one thing and will keep piling up new restrictions.

Thanks for pretending to know what I’m getting at. All I asked was if it was acceptable to you.

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://time.com/4371452/orlando-shooting-ar-15-military-civilian-family/

OK so I read a ton on Eugene Stoner over the years and never herd him say that and I was right, his family didn't either.  That's fine.

Did you read the article?

“Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News. “He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events.”

yeah....I read it....did you?  Right there in front of you

Oh yeah I see exactly where it says Assault rifle...  This was the argument.

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

154 rounds in 5 minutes. Into first and second graders. One round every two seconds, on average. 10 magazines holding 30 rounds each. Acceptable? Modifications can make it quicker, correct?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE92R0EM20130328

You can  do this with a handgun.

Acceptable?

Well you make an argument about one thing then seeing that the weapon you want to constrict really isn't the only one that can do it so then you'll go after the next one.

This is why people don't want new restrictions because it will never stop.  You won't be happy with one thing and will keep piling up new restrictions.

So here is the far right argument....we can't do anything because it is a slippery slope

Ridiculous.  And use common sense to project that argument into the future.  That is where we enter the wild west scenario....where we all have guns pointed at each other because no one knows who is good and who is bad.  And imagine how the police would have to address a situation like that....holy christ think for a second.

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

154 rounds in 5 minutes. Into first and second graders. One round every two seconds, on average. 10 magazines holding 30 rounds each. Acceptable? Modifications can make it quicker, correct?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE92R0EM20130328

You can  do this with a handgun.

Acceptable?

Well you make an argument about one thing then seeing that the weapon you want to constrict really isn't the only one that can do it so then you'll go after the next one.

This is why people don't want new restrictions because it will never stop.  You won't be happy with one thing and will keep piling up new restrictions.

So here is the far right argument....we can't do anything because it is a slippery slope

Ridiculous.  And use common sense to project that argument into the future.  That is where we enter the wild west scenario....where we all have guns pointed at each other because no one knows who is good and who is bad.  And imagine how the police would have to address a situation like that....holy christ think for a second.

Cops are good guys to you now?

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://time.com/4371452/orlando-shooting-ar-15-military-civilian-family/

OK so I read a ton on Eugene Stoner over the years and never herd him say that and I was right, his family didn't either.  That's fine.

Did you read the article?

“Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News. “He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events.”

yeah....I read it....did you?  Right there in front of you

Oh yeah I see exactly where it says Assault rifle...  This was the argument.

IS the AK-47 an assault rifle?  They clearly refer to the AR-15 being an ADVANTAGE over the AK-47.  How many pieces of this puzzle do you need?  You are like the guy on Wheel of Fortune that gives an incorrect answer when the entire puzzle is spelled out.

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

154 rounds in 5 minutes. Into first and second graders. One round every two seconds, on average. 10 magazines holding 30 rounds each. Acceptable? Modifications can make it quicker, correct?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE92R0EM20130328

You can  do this with a handgun.

Acceptable?

Well you make an argument about one thing then seeing that the weapon you want to constrict really isn't the only one that can do it so then you'll go after the next one.

This is why people don't want new restrictions because it will never stop.  You won't be happy with one thing and will keep piling up new restrictions.

Thanks for pretending to know what I’m getting at. All I asked was if it was acceptable to you.

This is why you won't be happy too.  You will just go on to the next thing asking if that's acceptable but then what about this?

If I am wrong then tell me what your angle was?

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

154 rounds in 5 minutes. Into first and second graders. One round every two seconds, on average. 10 magazines holding 30 rounds each. Acceptable? Modifications can make it quicker, correct?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE92R0EM20130328

You can  do this with a handgun.

Acceptable?

Well you make an argument about one thing then seeing that the weapon you want to constrict really isn't the only one that can do it so then you'll go after the next one.

This is why people don't want new restrictions because it will never stop.  You won't be happy with one thing and will keep piling up new restrictions.

So here is the far right argument....we can't do anything because it is a slippery slope

Ridiculous.  And use common sense to project that argument into the future.  That is where we enter the wild west scenario....where we all have guns pointed at each other because no one knows who is good and who is bad.  And imagine how the police would have to address a situation like that....holy christ think for a second.

Cops are good guys to you now?

What do you mean now?  No one can blame a copy for taking out a "good guy with a gun" if the cops pull up to a scene of an active shooter.  That's been my point in this thread many times.  We will be unable to tell who is the good guy and who is the bad guy.

mcgruff10

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

I fear people with weapons wether they are guns, rifles more than people with out them! I feel safer in a home without weapons than in a home with weapons ...

I respect that; Everyone is different.  But just because you (as in gun control people) don’t like weapons doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to own one. 

Agree.  It's the fact that people are getting killed in the USA by firearms at such a high rate vs other countries that means you shouldn't be able to own just any weapon and any ammo that you want.

Here is the thing though, you can't just own ANY weapon of your choosing.

Ammo doesn't mean squat if you don't have the firearm to put it in but the only ammo I see that should be throttled is steel core which is in effect.

anything that allows you to mow down a classroom with one pull should be illegal. 

And that gun is illegal to own without extensive backround checks and very, very expensive to own.

so it's not illegal. 

No one is going to spend thousands of dollars and go through all those background checks just to use that gun in a crime.  

so how are these guns getting in the hands of mass shooters? many of them teens/young adults? honest question. because if they are so hard to obtain, something is going wrong. 

Bud no one is using "machine guns" in these shootings, they are using semi-automatic weapons.  "machine guns" are fully automatic, you keep your finger on the trigger and bullets fly out until the mag is empty.  Meaning if I have a 30 round mag (30 bullets) and I keep my finger on the trigger, all 30 bullets will fire unless there is a jam, etc.
A semi-automatic is every time you pull a trigger a bullet is fired.  So in order to empty a 30 round mag you have to pull the trigger 30 times.

Fully automatic is not as accurate as semi-automatic however virtually no one possesses fully automatic weapons.  

So I have a semi-automatic shotgun that holds five rounds, every time I pull the trigger one shell is fired.  You can have semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and handguns.  One pull, one bullet.  Got it my man?

The Vegas shooter used a bump stock.  I suppose you would argue that fully automatic is less accurate so victims have a better chance of avoiding a kill shot?

Bump stocks are now illegal.  

tbergs

tempo_n_groove said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

no, its not just responsible gun owner, its former military, current reserve deputy, current firearms instructor employs extensive training and judgement as volunteer security.........

So if everyone that owns one gets training we can keep them and everyone leaves us alone?

I'm up for some training!  Let's do this.

I'd go back again too.  

What do you consider adequate training and how frequently for recertification? I'm thinking every 3 years after at least an initial 40 hour in class course that covers safety, laws, storage, history, nomenclature, etc. and at least another 40 at the range with hands on training and a proficiency test for both sections. Refresher course every 3 years would require an 8 hour course broken in to 2 (4) hour segments for in class and hands on. This of course would be in tandem with a gun registry process.

Nope, it's not OSHA and shouldn't be treated as such. 

I'd love to do more training but that would only pacify people for so long. 

Yeah, because it makes complete sense that I sit through an annual training about possible exposure to bloodborne pathogens so I know what to do and the risks involved, but anybody can go out and buy a gun with absolutely no knowledge about it and the dangers it poses to me and everyone else if not properly stored, handled or used.

So, what's your interpretation of adequate training and ownership requirements?

HughFreakingDillon

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

I fear people with weapons wether they are guns, rifles more than people with out them! I feel safer in a home without weapons than in a home with weapons ...

I respect that; Everyone is different.  But just because you (as in gun control people) don’t like weapons doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to own one. 

Agree.  It's the fact that people are getting killed in the USA by firearms at such a high rate vs other countries that means you shouldn't be able to own just any weapon and any ammo that you want.

Here is the thing though, you can't just own ANY weapon of your choosing.

Ammo doesn't mean squat if you don't have the firearm to put it in but the only ammo I see that should be throttled is steel core which is in effect.

anything that allows you to mow down a classroom with one pull should be illegal. 

And that gun is illegal to own without extensive backround checks and very, very expensive to own.

so it's not illegal. 

No one is going to spend thousands of dollars and go through all those background checks just to use that gun in a crime.  

so how are these guns getting in the hands of mass shooters? many of them teens/young adults? honest question. because if they are so hard to obtain, something is going wrong. 

Bud no one is using "machine guns" in these shootings, they are using semi-automatic weapons.  "machine guns" are fully automatic, you keep your finger on the trigger and bullets fly out until the mag is empty.  Meaning if I have a 30 round mag (30 bullets) and I keep my finger on the trigger, all 30 bullets will fire unless there is a jam, etc.
A semi-automatic is every time you pull a trigger a bullet is fired.  So in order to empty a 30 round mag you have to pull the trigger 30 times.

Fully automatic is not as accurate as semi-automatic however virtually no one possesses fully automatic weapons.  

So I have a semi-automatic shotgun that holds five rounds, every time I pull the trigger one shell is fired.  You can have semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and handguns.  One pull, one bullet.  Got it my man?

yes. and I still think those should be illegal. no one, and I mean no one, needs to be able to fire off 30 rounds without reloading. hand guns with 6 is plenty. 

Gern Blansten

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

I fear people with weapons wether they are guns, rifles more than people with out them! I feel safer in a home without weapons than in a home with weapons ...

I respect that; Everyone is different.  But just because you (as in gun control people) don’t like weapons doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to own one. 

Agree.  It's the fact that people are getting killed in the USA by firearms at such a high rate vs other countries that means you shouldn't be able to own just any weapon and any ammo that you want.

Here is the thing though, you can't just own ANY weapon of your choosing.

Ammo doesn't mean squat if you don't have the firearm to put it in but the only ammo I see that should be throttled is steel core which is in effect.

anything that allows you to mow down a classroom with one pull should be illegal. 

And that gun is illegal to own without extensive backround checks and very, very expensive to own.

so it's not illegal. 

No one is going to spend thousands of dollars and go through all those background checks just to use that gun in a crime.  

so how are these guns getting in the hands of mass shooters? many of them teens/young adults? honest question. because if they are so hard to obtain, something is going wrong. 

Bud no one is using "machine guns" in these shootings, they are using semi-automatic weapons.  "machine guns" are fully automatic, you keep your finger on the trigger and bullets fly out until the mag is empty.  Meaning if I have a 30 round mag (30 bullets) and I keep my finger on the trigger, all 30 bullets will fire unless there is a jam, etc.
A semi-automatic is every time you pull a trigger a bullet is fired.  So in order to empty a 30 round mag you have to pull the trigger 30 times.

Fully automatic is not as accurate as semi-automatic however virtually no one possesses fully automatic weapons.  

So I have a semi-automatic shotgun that holds five rounds, every time I pull the trigger one shell is fired.  You can have semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and handguns.  One pull, one bullet.  Got it my man?

The Vegas shooter used a bump stock.  I suppose you would argue that fully automatic is less accurate so victims have a better chance of avoiding a kill shot?

Bump stocks are now illegal.  

So is shooting an assault rifle into a crowd

mcgruff10

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

I fear people with weapons wether they are guns, rifles more than people with out them! I feel safer in a home without weapons than in a home with weapons ...

I respect that; Everyone is different.  But just because you (as in gun control people) don’t like weapons doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to own one. 

Agree.  It's the fact that people are getting killed in the USA by firearms at such a high rate vs other countries that means you shouldn't be able to own just any weapon and any ammo that you want.

Here is the thing though, you can't just own ANY weapon of your choosing.

Ammo doesn't mean squat if you don't have the firearm to put it in but the only ammo I see that should be throttled is steel core which is in effect.

anything that allows you to mow down a classroom with one pull should be illegal. 

And that gun is illegal to own without extensive backround checks and very, very expensive to own.

so it's not illegal. 

No one is going to spend thousands of dollars and go through all those background checks just to use that gun in a crime.  

so how are these guns getting in the hands of mass shooters? many of them teens/young adults? honest question. because if they are so hard to obtain, something is going wrong. 

Bud no one is using "machine guns" in these shootings, they are using semi-automatic weapons.  "machine guns" are fully automatic, you keep your finger on the trigger and bullets fly out until the mag is empty.  Meaning if I have a 30 round mag (30 bullets) and I keep my finger on the trigger, all 30 bullets will fire unless there is a jam, etc.
A semi-automatic is every time you pull a trigger a bullet is fired.  So in order to empty a 30 round mag you have to pull the trigger 30 times.

Fully automatic is not as accurate as semi-automatic however virtually no one possesses fully automatic weapons.  

So I have a semi-automatic shotgun that holds five rounds, every time I pull the trigger one shell is fired.  You can have semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and handguns.  One pull, one bullet.  Got it my man?

The Vegas shooter used a bump stock.  I suppose you would argue that fully automatic is less accurate so victims have a better chance of avoiding a kill shot?

Bump stocks are now illegal.  

So is shooting an assault rifle into a crowd

Really? 

Gern Blansten

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

I fear people with weapons wether they are guns, rifles more than people with out them! I feel safer in a home without weapons than in a home with weapons ...

I respect that; Everyone is different.  But just because you (as in gun control people) don’t like weapons doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to own one. 

Agree.  It's the fact that people are getting killed in the USA by firearms at such a high rate vs other countries that means you shouldn't be able to own just any weapon and any ammo that you want.

Here is the thing though, you can't just own ANY weapon of your choosing.

Ammo doesn't mean squat if you don't have the firearm to put it in but the only ammo I see that should be throttled is steel core which is in effect.

anything that allows you to mow down a classroom with one pull should be illegal. 

And that gun is illegal to own without extensive backround checks and very, very expensive to own.

so it's not illegal. 

No one is going to spend thousands of dollars and go through all those background checks just to use that gun in a crime.  

so how are these guns getting in the hands of mass shooters? many of them teens/young adults? honest question. because if they are so hard to obtain, something is going wrong. 

Bud no one is using "machine guns" in these shootings, they are using semi-automatic weapons.  "machine guns" are fully automatic, you keep your finger on the trigger and bullets fly out until the mag is empty.  Meaning if I have a 30 round mag (30 bullets) and I keep my finger on the trigger, all 30 bullets will fire unless there is a jam, etc.
A semi-automatic is every time you pull a trigger a bullet is fired.  So in order to empty a 30 round mag you have to pull the trigger 30 times.

Fully automatic is not as accurate as semi-automatic however virtually no one possesses fully automatic weapons.  

So I have a semi-automatic shotgun that holds five rounds, every time I pull the trigger one shell is fired.  You can have semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and handguns.  One pull, one bullet.  Got it my man?

The Vegas shooter used a bump stock.  I suppose you would argue that fully automatic is less accurate so victims have a better chance of avoiding a kill shot?

Bump stocks are now illegal.  

So is shooting an assault rifle into a crowd

Really? 

yeah really....isn't one of your arguments that making things illegal doesn't matter?  that criminals will still use them?

mcgruff10

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

I fear people with weapons wether they are guns, rifles more than people with out them! I feel safer in a home without weapons than in a home with weapons ...

I respect that; Everyone is different.  But just because you (as in gun control people) don’t like weapons doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to own one. 

Agree.  It's the fact that people are getting killed in the USA by firearms at such a high rate vs other countries that means you shouldn't be able to own just any weapon and any ammo that you want.

Here is the thing though, you can't just own ANY weapon of your choosing.

Ammo doesn't mean squat if you don't have the firearm to put it in but the only ammo I see that should be throttled is steel core which is in effect.

anything that allows you to mow down a classroom with one pull should be illegal. 

And that gun is illegal to own without extensive backround checks and very, very expensive to own.

so it's not illegal. 

No one is going to spend thousands of dollars and go through all those background checks just to use that gun in a crime.  

so how are these guns getting in the hands of mass shooters? many of them teens/young adults? honest question. because if they are so hard to obtain, something is going wrong. 

Bud no one is using "machine guns" in these shootings, they are using semi-automatic weapons.  "machine guns" are fully automatic, you keep your finger on the trigger and bullets fly out until the mag is empty.  Meaning if I have a 30 round mag (30 bullets) and I keep my finger on the trigger, all 30 bullets will fire unless there is a jam, etc.
A semi-automatic is every time you pull a trigger a bullet is fired.  So in order to empty a 30 round mag you have to pull the trigger 30 times.

Fully automatic is not as accurate as semi-automatic however virtually no one possesses fully automatic weapons.  

So I have a semi-automatic shotgun that holds five rounds, every time I pull the trigger one shell is fired.  You can have semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and handguns.  One pull, one bullet.  Got it my man?

The Vegas shooter used a bump stock.  I suppose you would argue that fully automatic is less accurate so victims have a better chance of avoiding a kill shot?

Bump stocks are now illegal.  

So is shooting an assault rifle into a crowd

Really? 

yeah really....isn't one of your arguments that making things illegal doesn't matter?  that criminals will still use them?

I was being very sarcastic.  I obviously know shooting into a crowd is illegal.  

OnWis97

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

HesCalledDyer

In all the training talk a couple pages back, did anyone mention a mental/physical health exam?  It's not just about being properly trained and refresher courses on the use, care, and storage of guns.  Some people just don't have the mental or physical capacity to own or handle a weapon.  Let's start there before we go signing everyone up for shootin' classes.