America's Gun Violence

HughFreakingDillon

HesCalledDyer said:

In all the training talk a couple pages back, did anyone mention a mental/physical health exam?  It's not just about being properly trained and refresher courses on the use, care, and storage of guns.  Some people just don't have the mental or physical capacity to own or handle a weapon.  Let's start there before we go signing everyone up for shootin' classes.

unfortunately 2A mentions nothing about being "unfit".  

tempo_n_groove

HesCalledDyer said:

In all the training talk a couple pages back, did anyone mention a mental/physical health exam?  It's not just about being properly trained and refresher courses on the use, care, and storage of guns.  Some people just don't have the mental or physical capacity to own or handle a weapon.  Let's start there before we go signing everyone up for shootin' classes.

I mentioned this a while ago and here I think would be the problem.

You go in to be evaluated and the appointed doctor has an issue with something, though you've never been diagnosed with anything before in a mental aspect.  You get branded, labeled, whatever, and now you are stuck with a scarlet letter.

That is why I see it would be bad.

I on the other hand would not have a problem with this but it needs to be very well thought out before put in place.

tempo_n_groove

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

HesCalledDyer

tempo_n_groove said:

HesCalledDyer said:

In all the training talk a couple pages back, did anyone mention a mental/physical health exam?  It's not just about being properly trained and refresher courses on the use, care, and storage of guns.  Some people just don't have the mental or physical capacity to own or handle a weapon.  Let's start there before we go signing everyone up for shootin' classes.

I mentioned this a while ago and here I think would be the problem.

You go in to be evaluated and the appointed doctor has an issue with something, though you've never been diagnosed with anything before in a mental aspect.  You get branded, labeled, whatever, and now you are stuck with a scarlet letter.

That is why I see it would be bad.

I on the other hand would not have a problem with this but it needs to be very well thought out before put in place.

Absolutely agreed.

HesCalledDyer

HughFreakingDillon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

In all the training talk a couple pages back, did anyone mention a mental/physical health exam?  It's not just about being properly trained and refresher courses on the use, care, and storage of guns.  Some people just don't have the mental or physical capacity to own or handle a weapon.  Let's start there before we go signing everyone up for shootin' classes.

unfortunately 2A mentions nothing about being "unfit".  

This is true.  But also true is that 2A is totally antiquated and needs a hard revision.

mcgruff10

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

HughFreakingDillon

HesCalledDyer said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

In all the training talk a couple pages back, did anyone mention a mental/physical health exam?  It's not just about being properly trained and refresher courses on the use, care, and storage of guns.  Some people just don't have the mental or physical capacity to own or handle a weapon.  Let's start there before we go signing everyone up for shootin' classes.

unfortunately 2A mentions nothing about being "unfit".  

This is true.  But also true is that 2A is totally antiquated and needs a hard revision.

never going to happen, as much as I agree with you. 

HesCalledDyer

HughFreakingDillon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

In all the training talk a couple pages back, did anyone mention a mental/physical health exam?  It's not just about being properly trained and refresher courses on the use, care, and storage of guns.  Some people just don't have the mental or physical capacity to own or handle a weapon.  Let's start there before we go signing everyone up for shootin' classes.

unfortunately 2A mentions nothing about being "unfit".  

This is true.  But also true is that 2A is totally antiquated and needs a hard revision.

never going to happen, as much as I agree with you. 

Not with that attitude it's not!  (j/k, I know what you mean. And it's rather unfortunate.)

josevolution

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

Glorification! 

tempo_n_groove

HesCalledDyer said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

In all the training talk a couple pages back, did anyone mention a mental/physical health exam?  It's not just about being properly trained and refresher courses on the use, care, and storage of guns.  Some people just don't have the mental or physical capacity to own or handle a weapon.  Let's start there before we go signing everyone up for shootin' classes.

unfortunately 2A mentions nothing about being "unfit".  

This is true.  But also true is that 2A is totally antiquated and needs a hard revision.

HughFreakingDillon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

In all the training talk a couple pages back, did anyone mention a mental/physical health exam?  It's not just about being properly trained and refresher courses on the use, care, and storage of guns.  Some people just don't have the mental or physical capacity to own or handle a weapon.  Let's start there before we go signing everyone up for shootin' classes.

unfortunately 2A mentions nothing about being "unfit".  

But 2A has been modified many, many times...

tempo_n_groove

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

Glorification! 

Some were mentally unstable, some killed themselves, some were killed.  I don't see how those 3 scenarios equal to glorification?

There was a guy that did a shooting via FB live.  I don't know what kind of glorification that brought him, that is just sick to me...

josevolution

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

Glorification! 

Some were mentally unstable, some killed themselves, some were killed.  I don't see how those 3 scenarios equal to glorification?

There was a guy that did a shooting via FB live.  I don't know what kind of glorification that brought him, that is just sick to me...

This whole is issue is based on the glorification of guns by Movies, TV on&on ..

HughFreakingDillon

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

culture. mental health. society as a whole. laws need to evolve as society does. 

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

culture. mental health. society as a whole. laws need to evolve as society does. 

No way we can consider this evolving...

HughFreakingDillon

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

culture. mental health. society as a whole. laws need to evolve as society does. 

No way we can consider this evolving...

consider what evolving?

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

culture. mental health. society as a whole. laws need to evolve as society does. 

No way we can consider this evolving...

consider what evolving?

cmon really?

The world we are living in.

Well that is just me though, get off my lawn.

tbergs

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

culture. mental health. society as a whole. laws need to evolve as society does. 

No way we can consider this evolving...

consider what evolving?

cmon really?

The world we are living in.

Well that is just me though, get off my lawn.

Oh, no mistake about it that the world has evolved, but yet here in America we still want it to be 1776. No change to 2A! Right to bear arms, just not that militia part...

tempo_n_groove

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

culture. mental health. society as a whole. laws need to evolve as society does. 

No way we can consider this evolving...

consider what evolving?

cmon really?

The world we are living in.

Well that is just me though, get off my lawn.

Oh, no mistake about it that the world has evolved, but yet here in America we still want it to be 1776. No change to 2A! Right to bear arms, just not that militia part...

Again... They have made numerous changes to 2A.

dankind

tempo_n_groove said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

culture. mental health. society as a whole. laws need to evolve as society does. 

No way we can consider this evolving...

consider what evolving?

cmon really?

The world we are living in.

Well that is just me though, get off my lawn.

Oh, no mistake about it that the world has evolved, but yet here in America we still want it to be 1776. No change to 2A! Right to bear arms, just not that militia part...

Again... They have made numerous changes to 2A.

Since 1791?

Nope.

There have been different interpretations of it in Supreme Court cases (and lower court cases) and legislation introduced (or not) because of those different interpretations, but the language of the second amendment of the US Constitution has not changed since 1791.

tempo_n_groove

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

tbergs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

OnWis97 said:

I admit being very conflicted on guns and gun control. I don't like guns.  I wish the world did not have them.  But that isn't ever going to be the case.

We have states with strict rules, lax rules, etc. and data used from those to back both sides.  We have anecdotes that can be used to back any argument.  

The one thing that is staring us in the face (and for which we don't know the "why?") is that the problem is uniquely American.  Some countries that don't have a lot of guns don't have our level of gun violence.  Some countries where people have a lot of guns (Australia? I'm not sure) still don't have gun violence.

Why here?  Why is the United States different? Just like there are places that can handle their alcohol better, there seem to be places that can handle their guns better.  My fear is it's the "gun culture" (I posted a story about a nurse killed by New Year's Eve celebratory gun fire...that's a messed-up part of the culture and any reasonable person should think so); a culture that's as ensconced in the fabric of America as television, fast food, and cell phones.  Something that can not, an any way, be legislated away.

Do people in other places see guns as more utilitarian while Americans see them as "toys" or "companions?"  Are we more paranoid?  Is our society in fact more dangerous (or perceived as such), making our trigger-fingers more sensitive?

It leads me to the idea that conflicts with my historic philosophy: "guns are not the problem." However, "America is the problem." American exceptionalism; not always a good thing...

It's been brought up before that the most dangerous thing in the world is a white american male.

I personally brought up the same questions you did.  Why here?  Why us?  What is going on in our society that these things happen?

The federal government gave funding out for people to try and figure this out so we can wait and see what the study brings.

I have brought up the question numerous times: what exactly has changed?  In the 1950's/60's you could walk into a hardware with no back ground check and literally buy a surplus weapon that was fully automatic.  My uncle bought a god damn bazooka from ww2!  However no mass shootings, none of that.  Kids brought shotguns to school just to go deer hunting after school or take shooting classes.  So what in society has changed that led us to the problem we have today?

culture. mental health. society as a whole. laws need to evolve as society does. 

No way we can consider this evolving...

consider what evolving?

cmon really?

The world we are living in.

Well that is just me though, get off my lawn.

Oh, no mistake about it that the world has evolved, but yet here in America we still want it to be 1776. No change to 2A! Right to bear arms, just not that militia part...

Again... They have made numerous changes to 2A.

Since 1791?

Nope.

There have been different interpretations of it in Supreme Court cases (and lower court cases) and legislation introduced (or not) because of those different interpretations, but the language of the second amendment of the US Constitution has not changed since 1791.

Sorry, let me be more clear.

There have been numerous changes to gun laws over the years.
2A hasn't changed but you can't own machine guns.  Brady bill.  10 year Weapons ban.  States have done even more along the lines of specific weapons and conceal rights.  This is a few I can think of.  I can google more.

So 2A hasn't been changed but the laws in regards to it have tremendously.