America's Gun Violence

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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,831
    oftenreading said:
    The FBI "knew of" some teen somewhere who made a comment online about being a "professional school shooter" and "did nothing". Oh my. I wonder how many other teenage or young adult males make similar comments online in a single day. Dozens? Hundreds? More? 

    Given that there's absolutely no way to know which would actually go on to commit a shooting, I wonder if there's some way to limit the possibility of it, that doesn't include putting everyone who makes such a comment in jail or in hospital.  Thinking, thinking...... what could it be?
    I work at a school. We've had a series of threats, which is very unusual for us, over the last 3 weeks or so. About 2 a week.
    Parents are immediately notified, local police get involved. And those making the threats have been arrested.
    So, yes, arrest people who threaten to shoot kids.
    I'm not saying one bit gun control won't help. But I don't see how anyone can blame the guns and then ignore the people threatening schools.  
    That seems equivalent to me as those who claim gun control won't solve anything, so why try. Which is mocked quite heavily on here. SO why apply that same false logic to people who threaten schools?
  • stuckinline
    stuckinline Posts: 3,406
    oftenreading said:
    stuckinline said:
    Smellyman said:
    cincybearcat said:
    You know mental illness is certainly PART of the problem and part of the solution here.  But I'm tired of gun nuts that use it as a freakin excuse to do nothing about the other parts of the problem!

    I feel like the liberals got worked on this issue.  They finally got people talking mental health so they went with it and now the Pro-anygunIwant crowd is using it an argument FOR their side of the discussion.  Sickens me.
    and Trump reversed Obama's gun checks for people w/ mental illness. 

    Yay freedom!
    And psychiatrists are not permitted to ask their patients if they own a gun.
    Where is this the case?

    I know that Florida had a law from 2011 that prevented doctors from asking about guns in the home. It was particularly targeted at pediatricians, who routinely ask about potential dangers to children. It was overturned in 2017. I'm not aware that psychiatrists are prohibited from asking about guns in any state, so if I'm wrong about that, please let me know. 
    This was discussed on the news this morning. 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,265
    dignin said:
    rgambs said:
    dignin said:
    The guy that brings up Ruby Ridge all the time says that it's the FBI's problem, not the guns. 
    Yep, typical. 
    Anything, even extreme hypocrisy, to steer the conversation away from muh guns.
    How do you even begin to have a conversation with people like that? That is the kinda mentality that most sane people are up against, to make real positive change.

    Is the education system in the US that fucked that reason and critical thinking are going by the wayside? Or are they a very small minority?

    The last presidential election doesn't point to a small minority I'm afraid.
    Yes, yes it is. The repubes have been dumbing down the American populace for decades with their budget cuts and attacks on public education and the rise of alt-right mass media, particularly Faux news. Many Americans don’t have the critical thinking skills to question and seek answers or just know that the information they’re being fed is BS. I saw it on Facebook so it must be true. It’s how Team Trump Treason got elected.
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  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    unsung said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Numerous kids said this guy was nuts, numerous kids said they expected him to do this.  

    Want to do something?  Address the source.
    what is this mysterious 'source of the problem' you keep referring to?

    bc I look around and see people like you, with your mentality, are the source of the problem.  how do you suggest we fix your brokenness? 
    I'm not the broken one, check your mental deficiency.

    All of you want to get rid of a device, no mention of why are so many kids pumped full of psychotropic drugs and other pharmaceuticals.  It is the fault of the device is your answer, and frankly it is cowardly.  All of you want to treat the symptoms and not the disease.  This is why I no longer debate this issue.  I despise the NRA, and if any of you knew the history you'd know why, but you blame them. The NRA is a joke, the NRA has actually written most of the gun control laws that we have now.  I have this same debate with Republicans when I tell them that Reagan signed the largest gun control in 40 years.  

    The FBI knew of this guy.  Did nothing.  The FBI knew of the guy in Texas.  Did nothing.  

    Good luck.  
    So, again, I'd ask what you would wish to have been done?  I can't think of an answer you would give that wouldn't directly contradict your own set of principles and values.
    The guy flat out said he was going to be a school shooter.  People contacted the FBI.  What did they do?

    People said they expected him to do this.  Was he ever questioned?  

    But yeah, keep blaming the NRA and firearms, it is cowardly and a cop out.
    I'll ask again: how is it cowardly and a cop out to point the finger at the tool that does all the damage? like I said, mental illness has been around for eons. AR-15's have not. 

    if a bunch of people said they expect you to do something without cause, and you were questioned and detained, you'd be screaming bloody murder. how can you be so anti-government/police power but be pro- after the fact when hindsight is 20/20? 

    there are literally thousands of people who post disturbing behaviour online either on youtube or on social media. are you suggesting the FBI has the man power and the constitutional legality to detain and question all of them? and what will that accomplish exactly? once the person realizes they aren't being charged, they can walk out the fucking door and continue on their rampage planning. 
    Exactly. Were going to need more police, FBI and bureaucracy. Bigger government.

    That's going to cost a lot, who is going to pay for that? Donations maybe? 
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    stuckinline said:
    oftenreading said:
    stuckinline said:
    Smellyman said:
    cincybearcat said:
    You know mental illness is certainly PART of the problem and part of the solution here.  But I'm tired of gun nuts that use it as a freakin excuse to do nothing about the other parts of the problem!

    I feel like the liberals got worked on this issue.  They finally got people talking mental health so they went with it and now the Pro-anygunIwant crowd is using it an argument FOR their side of the discussion.  Sickens me.
    and Trump reversed Obama's gun checks for people w/ mental illness. 

    Yay freedom!
    And psychiatrists are not permitted to ask their patients if they own a gun.
    Where is this the case?

    I know that Florida had a law from 2011 that prevented doctors from asking about guns in the home. It was particularly targeted at pediatricians, who routinely ask about potential dangers to children. It was overturned in 2017. I'm not aware that psychiatrists are prohibited from asking about guns in any state, so if I'm wrong about that, please let me know. 
    This was discussed on the news this morning. 

    Do you have any more information on this, though? Because I can't find anything to suggest this is actually true, and other accepted rulings around Tarasoff duties and such would argue against this. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,123
    mace1229 said:
    oftenreading said:
    The FBI "knew of" some teen somewhere who made a comment online about being a "professional school shooter" and "did nothing". Oh my. I wonder how many other teenage or young adult males make similar comments online in a single day. Dozens? Hundreds? More? 

    Given that there's absolutely no way to know which would actually go on to commit a shooting, I wonder if there's some way to limit the possibility of it, that doesn't include putting everyone who makes such a comment in jail or in hospital.  Thinking, thinking...... what could it be?
    I work at a school. We've had a series of threats, which is very unusual for us, over the last 3 weeks or so. About 2 a week.
    Parents are immediately notified, local police get involved. And those making the threats have been arrested.
    So, yes, arrest people who threaten to shoot kids.
    I'm not saying one bit gun control won't help. But I don't see how anyone can blame the guns and then ignore the people threatening schools.  
    That seems equivalent to me as those who claim gun control won't solve anything, so why try. Which is mocked quite heavily on here. SO why apply that same false logic to people who threaten schools?
    Same at our school.  We had two individuals make threatening remarks in a group text and they were both arrested and expelled. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,485
    mace1229 said:
    oftenreading said:
    The FBI "knew of" some teen somewhere who made a comment online about being a "professional school shooter" and "did nothing". Oh my. I wonder how many other teenage or young adult males make similar comments online in a single day. Dozens? Hundreds? More? 

    Given that there's absolutely no way to know which would actually go on to commit a shooting, I wonder if there's some way to limit the possibility of it, that doesn't include putting everyone who makes such a comment in jail or in hospital.  Thinking, thinking...... what could it be?
    I work at a school. We've had a series of threats, which is very unusual for us, over the last 3 weeks or so. About 2 a week.
    Parents are immediately notified, local police get involved. And those making the threats have been arrested.
    So, yes, arrest people who threaten to shoot kids.
    I'm not saying one bit gun control won't help. But I don't see how anyone can blame the guns and then ignore the people threatening schools.  
    That seems equivalent to me as those who claim gun control won't solve anything, so why try. Which is mocked quite heavily on here. SO why apply that same false logic to people who threaten schools?
    of course they should. but did this kid threaten the school in his videos? I know he threatened police, which, when you think about it, is incredible that he wasn't at the very least quesitoned. not sure how that got missed. 

    when a sex offender is released from prison, and is a perceived threat to reoffend, even though they have served their sentence, a notice is sent out to schools which is then circulated to all parents including picture, description, background, where they are expected to live, etc, as a warning. 

    it should be the same with those that threaten harm to schools. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    mace1229 said:
    oftenreading said:
    The FBI "knew of" some teen somewhere who made a comment online about being a "professional school shooter" and "did nothing". Oh my. I wonder how many other teenage or young adult males make similar comments online in a single day. Dozens? Hundreds? More? 

    Given that there's absolutely no way to know which would actually go on to commit a shooting, I wonder if there's some way to limit the possibility of it, that doesn't include putting everyone who makes such a comment in jail or in hospital.  Thinking, thinking...... what could it be?
    I work at a school. We've had a series of threats, which is very unusual for us, over the last 3 weeks or so. About 2 a week.
    Parents are immediately notified, local police get involved. And those making the threats have been arrested.
    So, yes, arrest people who threaten to shoot kids.
    I'm not saying one bit gun control won't help. But I don't see how anyone can blame the guns and then ignore the people threatening schools.  
    That seems equivalent to me as those who claim gun control won't solve anything, so why try. Which is mocked quite heavily on here. SO why apply that same false logic to people who threaten schools?
    We're pointing out the hypocrisy of most gun nutters. They talk about things like mental health and monitoring suspects but they don't want to pay for those things. They vote for politicians to cut their taxes...how do they do that? They cut services.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,485
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    oftenreading said:
    The FBI "knew of" some teen somewhere who made a comment online about being a "professional school shooter" and "did nothing". Oh my. I wonder how many other teenage or young adult males make similar comments online in a single day. Dozens? Hundreds? More? 

    Given that there's absolutely no way to know which would actually go on to commit a shooting, I wonder if there's some way to limit the possibility of it, that doesn't include putting everyone who makes such a comment in jail or in hospital.  Thinking, thinking...... what could it be?
    I work at a school. We've had a series of threats, which is very unusual for us, over the last 3 weeks or so. About 2 a week.
    Parents are immediately notified, local police get involved. And those making the threats have been arrested.
    So, yes, arrest people who threaten to shoot kids.
    I'm not saying one bit gun control won't help. But I don't see how anyone can blame the guns and then ignore the people threatening schools.  
    That seems equivalent to me as those who claim gun control won't solve anything, so why try. Which is mocked quite heavily on here. SO why apply that same false logic to people who threaten schools?
    We're pointing out the hypocrisy of most gun nutters. They talk about things like mental health and monitoring suspects but they don't want to pay for those things. They vote for politicians to cut their taxes...how do they do that? They cut services.
    and they want to monitor people but they are against monitoring/big brother/big government. #hypocrisy
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    benjs said:
    rgambs said:
    Deployed military troops only, police shouldn't have them either.

    Unfortunately, our moronic and paranoid society can't put Pandora back in her jar.
    On the topic of putting her back in her jar, how does a country successfully collect all guns, including those of traceable and legally obtained firearms, and untraceable and illegally obtained firearms? To play devil’s advocate, I could see an argument being made that this would likely result in civilians surrendering their firearms and those with nefarious intent not, leaving only armed criminals.

    Short term pain, Benjs.

    The change effort has to start and the effects won't be felt by the first generation.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Numerous kids said this guy was nuts, numerous kids said they expected him to do this.  

    Want to do something?  Address the source.
    what is this mysterious 'source of the problem' you keep referring to?

    bc I look around and see people like you, with your mentality, are the source of the problem.  how do you suggest we fix your brokenness? 
    I'm not the broken one, check your mental deficiency.

    All of you want to get rid of a device, no mention of why are so many kids pumped full of psychotropic drugs and other pharmaceuticals.  It is the fault of the device is your answer, and frankly it is cowardly.  All of you want to treat the symptoms and not the disease.  This is why I no longer debate this issue.  I despise the NRA, and if any of you knew the history you'd know why, but you blame them. The NRA is a joke, the NRA has actually written most of the gun control laws that we have now.  I have this same debate with Republicans when I tell them that Reagan signed the largest gun control in 40 years.  

    The FBI knew of this guy.  Did nothing.  The FBI knew of the guy in Texas.  Did nothing.  

    Good luck.  
    So, again, I'd ask what you would wish to have been done?  I can't think of an answer you would give that wouldn't directly contradict your own set of principles and values.
    The guy flat out said he was going to be a school shooter.  People contacted the FBI.  What did they do?

    People said they expected him to do this.  Was he ever questioned?  

    But yeah, keep blaming the NRA and firearms, it is cowardly and a cop out.
    As usual, you didn't answer the question because the answer makes you uncomfortable.
    What would you wish to have been done?
    Have security.

    Metal detectors on main entrances with a guard.  When class is in session all entrances other than the main get locked.  Pretty simple stuff.

    We can secure airports but not schools apparently.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    dignin said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Numerous kids said this guy was nuts, numerous kids said they expected him to do this.  

    Want to do something?  Address the source.
    what is this mysterious 'source of the problem' you keep referring to?

    bc I look around and see people like you, with your mentality, are the source of the problem.  how do you suggest we fix your brokenness? 
    I'm not the broken one, check your mental deficiency.

    All of you want to get rid of a device, no mention of why are so many kids pumped full of psychotropic drugs and other pharmaceuticals.  It is the fault of the device is your answer, and frankly it is cowardly.  All of you want to treat the symptoms and not the disease.  This is why I no longer debate this issue.  I despise the NRA, and if any of you knew the history you'd know why, but you blame them. The NRA is a joke, the NRA has actually written most of the gun control laws that we have now.  I have this same debate with Republicans when I tell them that Reagan signed the largest gun control in 40 years.  

    The FBI knew of this guy.  Did nothing.  The FBI knew of the guy in Texas.  Did nothing.  

    Good luck.  
    What would you suggest the FBI do? Take their guns away because they "might" hurt someone? Throw these guys in jail because they "might" hurt someone? 

    For a libertarian anti police guy such as yourself you sure have some conflicting viewpoints. 

    This is where I was going.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    It isn't conflicting to actually question someone.  The police should do investigating, not just shoot guys crawling in hallways or people's pets.
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,256
    I will not vote for any Republican unless they say on the record that they will vote to ban AR-15's AND make it illegal to own them (i.e., gun buy-back program).    
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Unsung...

    You consistently knock the police and the feds for intruding on people's lives, yet here you are suggesting they failed at their job because they never intruded on people's lives. What do you want: offering police the license to do their job effectively... or limitations so they do not interfere with Americans living the life of freedom?

    And on a side note... did you know Ron Paul doesn't wash his hands after he uses the stalls?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    And special operation teams (police) should have AR15s as well.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    unsung said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Numerous kids said this guy was nuts, numerous kids said they expected him to do this.  

    Want to do something?  Address the source.
    what is this mysterious 'source of the problem' you keep referring to?

    bc I look around and see people like you, with your mentality, are the source of the problem.  how do you suggest we fix your brokenness? 
    I'm not the broken one, check your mental deficiency.

    All of you want to get rid of a device, no mention of why are so many kids pumped full of psychotropic drugs and other pharmaceuticals.  It is the fault of the device is your answer, and frankly it is cowardly.  All of you want to treat the symptoms and not the disease.  This is why I no longer debate this issue.  I despise the NRA, and if any of you knew the history you'd know why, but you blame them. The NRA is a joke, the NRA has actually written most of the gun control laws that we have now.  I have this same debate with Republicans when I tell them that Reagan signed the largest gun control in 40 years.  

    The FBI knew of this guy.  Did nothing.  The FBI knew of the guy in Texas.  Did nothing.  

    Good luck.  
    So, again, I'd ask what you would wish to have been done?  I can't think of an answer you would give that wouldn't directly contradict your own set of principles and values.
    The guy flat out said he was going to be a school shooter.  People contacted the FBI.  What did they do?

    People said they expected him to do this.  Was he ever questioned?  

    But yeah, keep blaming the NRA and firearms, it is cowardly and a cop out.
    As usual, you didn't answer the question because the answer makes you uncomfortable.
    What would you wish to have been done?
    Have security.

    Metal detectors on main entrances with a guard.  When class is in session all entrances other than the main get locked.  Pretty simple stuff.

    We can secure airports but not schools apparently.
    Except we can't secure airports and we can't even secure airplanes, though we have come as close as possible and need to keep trying harder.

    Deflection.
    Pretty simple stuff, most of which was in place at the school and all of which is completely unrelated to your assertion that we should address the source. 
     The shooter is the source, not the school.
    What would you do to address the source?  
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,123
    unsung said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Numerous kids said this guy was nuts, numerous kids said they expected him to do this.  

    Want to do something?  Address the source.
    what is this mysterious 'source of the problem' you keep referring to?

    bc I look around and see people like you, with your mentality, are the source of the problem.  how do you suggest we fix your brokenness? 
    I'm not the broken one, check your mental deficiency.

    All of you want to get rid of a device, no mention of why are so many kids pumped full of psychotropic drugs and other pharmaceuticals.  It is the fault of the device is your answer, and frankly it is cowardly.  All of you want to treat the symptoms and not the disease.  This is why I no longer debate this issue.  I despise the NRA, and if any of you knew the history you'd know why, but you blame them. The NRA is a joke, the NRA has actually written most of the gun control laws that we have now.  I have this same debate with Republicans when I tell them that Reagan signed the largest gun control in 40 years.  

    The FBI knew of this guy.  Did nothing.  The FBI knew of the guy in Texas.  Did nothing.  

    Good luck.  
    So, again, I'd ask what you would wish to have been done?  I can't think of an answer you would give that wouldn't directly contradict your own set of principles and values.
    The guy flat out said he was going to be a school shooter.  People contacted the FBI.  What did they do?

    People said they expected him to do this.  Was he ever questioned?  

    But yeah, keep blaming the NRA and firearms, it is cowardly and a cop out.
    As usual, you didn't answer the question because the answer makes you uncomfortable.
    What would you wish to have been done?
    Have security.

    Metal detectors on main entrances with a guard.  When class is in session all entrances other than the main get locked.  Pretty simple stuff.

    We can secure airports but not schools apparently.
    You guys don't secure your school doors?  After the kids come in on the bus the only way in is by my teacher badge.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    Unsung...

    You consistently knock the police and the feds for intruding on people's lives, yet here you are suggesting they failed at their job because they never intruded on people's lives. What do you want: offering police the license to do their job effectively... or limitations so they do not interfere with Americans living the life of freedom?

    And on a side note... did you know Ron Paul doesn't wash his hands after he uses the stalls?
    There is a mf-ing difference between mass spying on Americans and collecting everything we do and actually investigating someone who actually said that they were going to shoot up a fucking school!

    Jesus f-ing Christ do you not see that?

    And what RP does is not related to this issue.  What point is that in relation to the topic?  None.  
  • stuckinline
    stuckinline Posts: 3,406
    oftenreading said:
    stuckinline said:
    oftenreading said:
    stuckinline said:
    Smellyman said:
    cincybearcat said:
    You know mental illness is certainly PART of the problem and part of the solution here.  But I'm tired of gun nuts that use it as a freakin excuse to do nothing about the other parts of the problem!

    I feel like the liberals got worked on this issue.  They finally got people talking mental health so they went with it and now the Pro-anygunIwant crowd is using it an argument FOR their side of the discussion.  Sickens me.
    and Trump reversed Obama's gun checks for people w/ mental illness. 

    Yay freedom!
    And psychiatrists are not permitted to ask their patients if they own a gun.
    Where is this the case?

    I know that Florida had a law from 2011 that prevented doctors from asking about guns in the home. It was particularly targeted at pediatricians, who routinely ask about potential dangers to children. It was overturned in 2017. I'm not aware that psychiatrists are prohibited from asking about guns in any state, so if I'm wrong about that, please let me know. 
    This was discussed on the news this morning. 

    Do you have any more information on this, though? Because I can't find anything to suggest this is actually true, and other accepted rulings around Tarasoff duties and such would argue against this. 
    No, sorry. I apologize if I stated fake news. Have a great day!
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