America's Gun Violence

oftenreading

Welcome to the state of education in America - metal detectors at every door, guards (presumably armed?) in the hallways. 

Or we could reduce the availability of guns. 

HughFreakingDillon

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

Numerous kids said this guy was nuts, numerous kids said they expected him to do this.  

Want to do something?  Address the source.

what is this mysterious 'source of the problem' you keep referring to?

bc I look around and see people like you, with your mentality, are the source of the problem.  how do you suggest we fix your brokenness? 

I'm not the broken one, check your mental deficiency.

All of you want to get rid of a device, no mention of why are so many kids pumped full of psychotropic drugs and other pharmaceuticals.  It is the fault of the device is your answer, and frankly it is cowardly.  All of you want to treat the symptoms and not the disease.  This is why I no longer debate this issue.  I despise the NRA, and if any of you knew the history you'd know why, but you blame them. The NRA is a joke, the NRA has actually written most of the gun control laws that we have now.  I have this same debate with Republicans when I tell them that Reagan signed the largest gun control in 40 years.  

The FBI knew of this guy.  Did nothing.  The FBI knew of the guy in Texas.  Did nothing.  

Good luck.  

So, again, I'd ask what you would wish to have been done?  I can't think of an answer you would give that wouldn't directly contradict your own set of principles and values.

The guy flat out said he was going to be a school shooter.  People contacted the FBI.  What did they do?

People said they expected him to do this.  Was he ever questioned?  

But yeah, keep blaming the NRA and firearms, it is cowardly and a cop out.

As usual, you didn't answer the question because the answer makes you uncomfortable.
What would you wish to have been done?

Have security.

Metal detectors on main entrances with a guard.  When class is in session all entrances other than the main get locked.  Pretty simple stuff.

We can secure airports but not schools apparently.

so you just said people are treating the symptoms and not the disease. then what the hell is it you are suggesting here? looks like symptoms to me. 

unsung

More effective than your bullshit.

KC138045

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said: I

rgambs said:

Deployed military troops only, police shouldn't have them either.

Unfortunately, our moronic and paranoid society can't put Pandora back in her jar.

On the topic of putting her back in her jar, how does a country successfully collect all guns, including those of traceable and legally obtained firearms, and untraceable and illegally obtained firearms? To play devil’s advocate, I could see an argument being made that this would likely result in civilians surrendering their firearms and those with nefarious intent not, leaving only armed criminals.

Tell everyone you know to never vote republican again. Every day.

Dems need this to be their central message in Nov.

Once enough Dems get elected, pass an amendment banning 2a.

If not enough Dems get elected for an amendment, but do start to win majorities, start to pass tons of different gun regulations keeping the courts busy until enough Dems get elected.

In the meantime, in the 37 states that allow dwi checkpoints, set up gun safety checkpoints. Everywhere

It can be done

I could be wrong but didn't the Democrats have majority control under Obama?  What was done about gun control then?

This is not just a Republican or Democrat issue.  The blame needs to be put on the entire government.

oftenreading

And what is our bullshit, exactly?

Because countries that have reduced guns have reduced shootings. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

Numerous kids said this guy was nuts, numerous kids said they expected him to do this.  

Want to do something?  Address the source.

what is this mysterious 'source of the problem' you keep referring to?

bc I look around and see people like you, with your mentality, are the source of the problem.  how do you suggest we fix your brokenness? 

I'm not the broken one, check your mental deficiency.

All of you want to get rid of a device, no mention of why are so many kids pumped full of psychotropic drugs and other pharmaceuticals.  It is the fault of the device is your answer, and frankly it is cowardly.  All of you want to treat the symptoms and not the disease.  This is why I no longer debate this issue.  I despise the NRA, and if any of you knew the history you'd know why, but you blame them. The NRA is a joke, the NRA has actually written most of the gun control laws that we have now.  I have this same debate with Republicans when I tell them that Reagan signed the largest gun control in 40 years.  

The FBI knew of this guy.  Did nothing.  The FBI knew of the guy in Texas.  Did nothing.  

Good luck.  

So, again, I'd ask what you would wish to have been done?  I can't think of an answer you would give that wouldn't directly contradict your own set of principles and values.

The guy flat out said he was going to be a school shooter.  People contacted the FBI.  What did they do?

People said they expected him to do this.  Was he ever questioned?  

But yeah, keep blaming the NRA and firearms, it is cowardly and a cop out.

As usual, you didn't answer the question because the answer makes you uncomfortable.
What would you wish to have been done?

Have security.

Metal detectors on main entrances with a guard.  When class is in session all entrances other than the main get locked.  Pretty simple stuff.

We can secure airports but not schools apparently.

so you just said people are treating the symptoms and not the disease. then what the hell is it you are suggesting here? looks like symptoms to me. 

lol

Unsung... you're sinking. For the love of Gawd... please watch this short clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR0lWICH3rY

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Unsung...

You consistently knock the police and the feds for intruding on people's lives, yet here you are suggesting they failed at their job because they never intruded on people's lives. What do you want: offering police the license to do their job effectively... or limitations so they do not interfere with Americans living the life of freedom?

And on a side note... did you know Ron Paul doesn't wash his hands after he uses the stalls?

There is a mf-ing difference between mass spying on Americans and collecting everything we do and actually investigating someone who actually said that they were going to shoot up a fucking school!

Jesus f-ing Christ do you not see that?

And what RP does is not related to this issue.  What point is that in relation to the topic?  None.  

Mass spying and collecting everything we do is paranoia. But I think I hear you say, "It's okay to spy on and collect stuff from individuals who exhibit odd behaviour in the interest of public safety." 

unsung

Sinking.  No, I'm the one that actually wants to protect these kids.  

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Sinking.  No, I'm the one that actually wants to protect these kids.  

Watch the clip for a laugh.

mcgruff10

Everyone has a tipping point and yesterday was it, i am fucking done with ar-15's.  It took me a while to come around but  as a hunter I have come to realize there is zero reason to have these.  Their real and only purpose is to kill.  I know it isn't going to happen but they should be illegal, give me a bolt action with a scope on it any day of the week.  

Looking forward to some shows this summer!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mcgruff10 said:

Everyone has a tipping point and yesterday was it, i am fucking done with ar-15's.  It took me a while to come around but  as a hunter I have come to realize there is zero reason to have these.  Their real and only purpose is to kill.  I know it isn't going to happen but they should be illegal, give me a bolt action with a scope on it any day of the week.  

Looking forward to some shows this summer!

This post is awesome.

rgambs

@unsung
I'm not just goading you or trying to get a gotcha moment.

This cuts to the center of the gun debate.  Gun proponents point to mental health and law enforcement prevention, but they also refuse to accept any restrictions on the gun rights of people who are deemed a risk but haven't yet been convicted of a serious crime.  Even the gun-hatinest libtart out there isnt suggesting we put a Tuesday afternoon Nikolas Cruz in prison for his scary behavior, so what can we do to "address the source" if we can't take/prevent his access to guns or lock him up?

HughFreakingDillon

unsung said:

More effective than your bullshit.

funny, if you read "my bullshit" a page ago, you'd see it is the exact same as your bullshit. 

but I want to take it even further than your bullshit. who wants to protect kids again?

rgambs

mcgruff10 said:

Everyone has a tipping point and yesterday was it, i am fucking done with ar-15's.  It took me a while to come around but  as a hunter I have come to realize there is zero reason to have these.  Their real and only purpose is to kill.  I know it isn't going to happen but they should be illegal, give me a bolt action with a scope on it any day of the week.  

Looking forward to some shows this summer!

You are into historical weapons and some of them are very potentially deadly in a mass shooting situation, but most are nothing like the modern tactical rifles we are seeing in terms of magazine capacity and mobility.
We can't go off the deep end and eliminate every kind of gun, but let's AT LEAST make it so that shitworms like Cruz need to be ridiculously skilled to carry out such carnage.
This kid isn't killing 17 people with a 14 shot tube fed rifle.  Not happening.  Gotta start somewhere.

benjs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

benjs said:

rgambs said:

Deployed military troops only, police shouldn't have them either.

Unfortunately, our moronic and paranoid society can't put Pandora back in her jar.

On the topic of putting her back in her jar, how does a country successfully collect all guns, including those of traceable and legally obtained firearms, and untraceable and illegally obtained firearms? To play devil’s advocate, I could see an argument being made that this would likely result in civilians surrendering their firearms and those with nefarious intent not, leaving only armed criminals.

Short term pain, Benjs.

The change effort has to start and the effects won't be felt by the first generation.

Thirty, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Where I have concern is that a politician's goal is not a long-term one, it's quite simply maximizing their profitability while possessing a government seat, and/or seeking re-election to extend that capacity to profit, lives be damned. The public and politicians have failed at holding policy-makers accountable for policies which result in fatalities, and as such, motivation to change is clearly low for politicians because implications are nil, with respect to restricting firearm policies.

My philosophy for progress is that the roadblocks or risks need to be identified first, resolved or mitigated second, and sold to the keyholders to progress finally, in order to get anywhere meaningful. Since the incentive that politicians respond to is profitability which come from lobbyists who are not accountable to the public, I truly don't know how to resolve the roadblock of meaningful ramifications for doing the wrong thing, and/or meaningful incentive for doing the right thing.

dignin

mcgruff10 said:

Everyone has a tipping point and yesterday was it, i am fucking done with ar-15's.  It took me a while to come around but  as a hunter I have come to realize there is zero reason to have these.  Their real and only purpose is to kill.  I know it isn't going to happen but they should be illegal, give me a bolt action with a scope on it any day of the week.  

Looking forward to some shows this summer!

Good stuff.

Smellyman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9l3SV9Rvvk

Thirty Bills Unpaid

benjs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

benjs said:

rgambs said:

Deployed military troops only, police shouldn't have them either.

Unfortunately, our moronic and paranoid society can't put Pandora back in her jar.

On the topic of putting her back in her jar, how does a country successfully collect all guns, including those of traceable and legally obtained firearms, and untraceable and illegally obtained firearms? To play devil’s advocate, I could see an argument being made that this would likely result in civilians surrendering their firearms and those with nefarious intent not, leaving only armed criminals.

Short term pain, Benjs.

The change effort has to start and the effects won't be felt by the first generation.

Thirty, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Where I have concern is that a politician's goal is not a long-term one, it's quite simply maximizing their profitability while possessing a government seat, and/or seeking re-election to extend that capacity to profit, lives be damned. The public and politicians have failed at holding policy-makers accountable for policies which result in fatalities, and as such, motivation to change is clearly low for politicians because implications are nil, with respect to restricting firearm policies.

My philosophy for progress is that the roadblocks or risks need to be identified first, resolved or mitigated second, and sold to the keyholders to progress finally, in order to get anywhere meaningful. Since the incentive that politicians respond to is profitability which come from lobbyists who are not accountable to the public, I truly don't know how to resolve the roadblock of meaningful ramifications for doing the wrong thing, and/or meaningful incentive for doing the right thing.

This is the harsh reality.

Upon initiating meaningful gun reform... the initial results will not look favourably on the leader who is at the core of the change effort. The US has a large sector of population that routinely fails to understand cause and effect; therefore, the pressure a politician would face as gun reforms 'seem' to be failing would be immense.

The change has to come from people like Scruffy who are finally fed up with the problem. The reform must be demanded by a solid majority of the citizens that understand the results will be there for their children and grandchildren and they must stay the course.

I'm not speaking to the blueprint (buy back programs, grandfathering, limited ammunition sales, etc.). But there is a plan that will work.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Smellyman said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9l3SV9Rvvk

word

josevolution

KC138045 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said: I

rgambs said:

Deployed military troops only, police shouldn't have them either.

Unfortunately, our moronic and paranoid society can't put Pandora back in her jar.

On the topic of putting her back in her jar, how does a country successfully collect all guns, including those of traceable and legally obtained firearms, and untraceable and illegally obtained firearms? To play devil’s advocate, I could see an argument being made that this would likely result in civilians surrendering their firearms and those with nefarious intent not, leaving only armed criminals.

Tell everyone you know to never vote republican again. Every day.

Dems need this to be their central message in Nov.

Once enough Dems get elected, pass an amendment banning 2a.

If not enough Dems get elected for an amendment, but do start to win majorities, start to pass tons of different gun regulations keeping the courts busy until enough Dems get elected.

In the meantime, in the 37 states that allow dwi checkpoints, set up gun safety checkpoints. Everywhere

It can be done

I could be wrong but didn't the Democrats have majority control under Obama?  What was done about gun control then?

This is not just a Republican or Democrat issue.  The blame needs to be put on the entire government.

After Sandy Hook Obama did try to bring up gun control you know what the NRA offered “ For teachers to have guns at their classes “ ...