America's Gun Violence

mace1229

jnimhaoileoin said:

The reason I found the idea of a stag at a gun range disturbing is because I find the implied relationship with guns disturbing. Guns were invented for one purpose, to kill people. If you want to have fun hitting targets with an implement, why not do archery or even paintballing? Why do you need to use a lethal weapon? I know that you seem to be able to see guns differently but that doesn't change the fact that they are designed for killing and always carry that risk, a risk that is not associated with a paintball gun. Can you (Mace I guess) explain to me why it would be so much more enjoyable to you to use a lethal weapon than, say, a paintball gun? Is it actually the thrill of it and the knowledge that it is a lethal weapon? If so, then what disturbs me should be patently obvious

If your issue with guns is that they were designed to kill, how is archery any different? They were the guns before gunpowder. 

mace1229

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why are model rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

jnimhaoileoin

mace1229 said:

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why are model rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

Ok, of course bows and arrows were created to kill also but I don't think we need fear their use in mass murders.

I still don't understand why it's important for you to shoot with live rounds. Would it be less fun for you to shoot with a paint ball or even some kind of rubber bullet?

I'm genuinely trying to understand this gun culture that is so alien to me

mcgruff10

jnimhaoileoin said:

mace1229 said:

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why are model rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

Ok, of course bows and arrows were created to kill also but I don't think we need fear their use in mass murders.

I still don't understand why it's important for you to shoot with live rounds. Would it be less fun for you to shoot with a paint ball or even some kind of rubber bullet?

I'm genuinely trying to understand this gun culture that is so alien to me

I just went to the range with my dad and father in law and came close to shooting a 1000 rounds between us.  It is challenging and fun.  Some people find it enjoyable while others can't stomach it.  I guess it's like anything in this world.  Some people enjoy playing golf, I find watching paint dry to be more interesting.  

mace1229

So if gun laws were made to inhibit a gun's potential in a mass murder you would be okay with guns? Because I am okay with limitations that would prevent mass murders, or at least make it more difficult to accomplish.
No, paint balls just arent as fun. To me that would be like tsaking a kid to a family fun center and then telling him don't ride a go-kart, just play Super Mario Kart instead, its basically the same thing. They aren't even close. One sort of simulates the other, but not really.

mcgruff10

mace1229 said:

So if gun laws were made to inhibit a gun's potential in a mass murder you would be okay with guns? Because I am okay with limitations that would prevent mass murders, or at least make it more difficult to accomplish.
No, paint balls just arent as fun. To me that would be like tsaking a kid to a family fun center and then telling him don't ride a go-kart, just play Super Mario Kart instead, its basically the same thing. They aren't even close. One sort of simulates the other, but not really.

During my brother in laws bach party we went to a range and had a fantastic time!  We shot for around two hours; I was the only non-military guy there so I learned a hell of a lot.  

PJPOWER

jnimhaoileoin said:

mace1229 said:

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why are model rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

Ok, of course bows and arrows were created to kill also but I don't think we need fear their use in mass murders.

I still don't understand why it's important for you to shoot with live rounds. Would it be less fun for you to shoot with a paint ball or even some kind of rubber bullet?

I'm genuinely trying to understand this gun culture that is so alien to me

Personally, I am a hunter.  I like to go to the range to hone in on my accuracy, sight in a new rifle, or see how different loads are going to function.  If you are going to be a gun owner, then you need to practice and learn how your firearm functions.  I would say that is probably one of the main safety measures a gun owner should take.  Practice often, and under different conditions.  Some people I know like to do running drills to increase their heart rate so that they can still hit their target while under stress.  A paintball gun or rubber bullet is not accurate and will not take down a deer or wild boar.  On the other hand, I do enjoy a good round of paintball or laser tag  now and then

HughFreakingDillon

jnimhaoileoin said:

mace1229 said:

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why are model rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

Ok, of course bows and arrows were created to kill also but I don't think we need fear their use in mass murders.

I still don't understand why it's important for you to shoot with live rounds. Would it be less fun for you to shoot with a paint ball or even some kind of rubber bullet?

I'm genuinely trying to understand this gun culture that is so alien to me

why does it matter if they are shooting with live rounds or not if just at the range?

RYME

And who was it that stopped the attacker from killing even more people in Texas?
A law abiding citizen NRA instructor.
How many of these Mass shooters are NRA members?
Serious question

unsung

jnimhaoileoin said:

mace1229 said:

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why aremodel rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

Ok, of course bows and arrows were created to kill also but I don't think we need fear their use in mass murders.

I still don't understand why it's important for you to shoot with live rounds. Would it be less fun for you to shoot with a paint ball or even some kind of rubber bullet?

I'm genuinely trying to understand this gun culture that is so alien to me

When discussing mass murder with a leftist it is so hard to take them seriously.

mcgruff10

RYME said:

And who was it that stopped the attacker from killing even more people in Texas?
A law abiding citizen NRA instructor.
How many of these Mass shooters are NRA members?
Serious question

from what i've read I don't think any were nra members. I know the guy who stopped the texas shooter the other day was a certified nra instructor.  

PJ_Soul

mace1229 said:

So if gun laws were made to inhibit a gun's potential in a mass murder you would be okay with guns? Because I am okay with limitations that would prevent mass murders, or at least make it more difficult to accomplish.
No, paint balls just arent as fun. To me that would be like tsaking a kid to a family fun center and then telling him don't ride a go-kart, just play Super Mario Kart instead, its basically the same thing. They aren't even close. One sort of simulates the other, but not really.

I'll have to agree with that. Paintball is super fun, but on a paintball course, where you're actually running around (I think that is a million times more fun than standing there shooting a gun at a target, and it gets you exercise as well, stimulates the brain way more too). Shooting paintballs during target practice would suck. Those things don't even shoot straight. Common flaws on the paintballs make them veer off in all directions a lot of the time.

Go Beavers

unsung said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mace1229 said:

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why aremodel rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

Ok, of course bows and arrows were created to kill also but I don't think we need fear their use in mass murders.

I still don't understand why it's important for you to shoot with live rounds. Would it be less fun for you to shoot with a paint ball or even some kind of rubber bullet?

I'm genuinely trying to understand this gun culture that is so alien to me

When discussing mass murder with a leftist it is so hard to take them seriously.

And this is why discussing guns with right wingers is difficult. Someone’s asking questions out of sincere curiousity and your response is to shut down the discussion, not expand it. 

PJ_Soul

unsung said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mace1229 said:

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why aremodel rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

Ok, of course bows and arrows were created to kill also but I don't think we need fear their use in mass murders.

I still don't understand why it's important for you to shoot with live rounds. Would it be less fun for you to shoot with a paint ball or even some kind of rubber bullet?

I'm genuinely trying to understand this gun culture that is so alien to me

When discussing mass murder with a leftist it is so hard to take them seriously.

Her questions aren't even coming from a leftist viewpoint IMO. She lives in Ireland. The American gun culture is a totally bizarre mystery to the Irish as far as I can tell (to people of many other nations too), and that is why she's asking these questions.

Halifax2TheMax

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mace1229 said:

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why aremodel rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

Ok, of course bows and arrows were created to kill also but I don't think we need fear their use in mass murders.

I still don't understand why it's important for you to shoot with live rounds. Would it be less fun for you to shoot with a paint ball or even some kind of rubber bullet?

I'm genuinely trying to understand this gun culture that is so alien to me

When discussing mass murder with a leftist it is so hard to take them seriously.

And this is why discussing guns with right wingers is difficult. Someone’s asking questions out of sincere curiousity and your response is to shut down the discussion, not expand it. 

Ignorance is bliss.

HughFreakingDillon

some people just need to get their daily dose of "I feel superior" instead of contributing to the actual conversation. 

Halifax2TheMax

RYME said:

And who was it that stopped the attacker from killing even more people in Texas?
A law abiding citizen NRA instructor.
How many of these Mass shooters are NRA members?
Serious question

I thought it was because he ran out of ammo, having fired 450 rounds, why else did he stop and come outside, where he was confronted by the guy who shot him? Too bad he couldn’t have carried 1000 rounds, I guess?

unsung

HughFreakingDillon said:

some people just need to get their daily dose of "I feel superior" instead of contributing to the actual conversation. 

How about this for contribution. 

Let's go shooting.  We can go to a range and it'll be on my dime.  We can go over all safety aspects and squeeze off a few rounds.

unsung

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mace1229 said:

And to answer your question, no its not because they can kill. Its just fun. Why aremodel rockets fun? I dont know, they just are. its fun to light a rocket and watch it launch hundreds of feet up. Its fun to shoot clay targets and watch them shatter when you hit them.Most of my guns are .22, essentially the smallest caliber, so it isnt about killing capabilities. 
Which I guess is why I'm okay with a lot of gun restrictions. I can still target shoot with smaller magazine limits, I can wait 10 days before shooting, I can pass a background check. 

Ok, of course bows and arrows were created to kill also but I don't think we need fear their use in mass murders.

I still don't understand why it's important for you to shoot with live rounds. Would it be less fun for you to shoot with a paint ball or even some kind of rubber bullet?

I'm genuinely trying to understand this gun culture that is so alien to me

When discussing mass murder with a leftist it is so hard to take them seriously.

And this is why discussing guns with right wingers is difficult. Someone’s asking questions out of sincere curiousity and your response is to shut down the discussion, not expand it. 

I made the assumption that since the antis are always telling me how much training should be needed it was obvious that in order to be trained you'd have to use real ammo.

You can't really train things like marksmanship with paintballs.

RYME

Halifax2TheMax said:

RYME said:

And who was it that stopped the attacker from killing even more people in Texas?
A law abiding citizen NRA instructor.
How many of these Mass shooters are NRA members?
Serious question

I thought it was because he ran out of ammo, having fired 450 rounds, why else did he stop and come outside, where he was confronted by the guy who shot him? Too bad he couldn’t have carried 1000 rounds, I guess?

He exchanged fire with the guy who was able to slip a bullet in between the body armor pices the attacker had on.
He also grabbed the attacker's attention away from shooting more people, because he (the armed citizen) became the immediate threat to him.  That bullet wound that went in between the body Armour layers is what did the attacker in.