America's Gun Violence

Hi!

my2hands said:

I'm a 39 year old man....

and Emma Gonzalez is my hero, she gives me hope for the future of my country

+1


Very emotional hearing or reading some of the stories of the teachers who saved lives or gave their own lives for others. I wonder if I would do the same. Heartbreaking. 

Bentleyspop

Scott Beigel, one of the teachers killed while defending his students at Stoneman Douglas  in Parkland, Fl. Last week, was a Pearl Jam fan.

I'm  in South Florida for a short vacation visiting family and was watching the local news last night and they flashed a picture of him wearing a Pearl Jam shirt.
I couldn't  find that image online but did find this one below. It seems the Parkland Community  lost a good man to useless gun violence. And the Pearl Jam family as well.

mattsl1983

Interesting read

https://www.google.com/amp/nationalpost.com/news/canada/would-canadian-gun-laws-have-stopped-americas-worst-mass-shooters/amp

Hi!

Bentleyspop said:

Scott Beigel, one of the teachers killed while defending his students at Stoneman Douglas  in Parkland, Fl. Last week, was a Pearl Jam fan.

I'm  in South Florida for a short vacation visiting family and was watching the local news last night and they flashed a picture of him wearing a Pearl Jam shirt.
I couldn't  find that image online but did find this one below. It seems the Parkland Community  lost a good man to useless gun violence. And the Pearl Jam family as well.

CM189191

Bentleyspop said:

Scott Beigel, one of the teachers killed while defending his students at Stoneman Douglas  in Parkland, Fl. Last week, was a Pearl Jam fan.

I'm  in South Florida for a short vacation visiting family and was watching the local news last night and they flashed a picture of him wearing a Pearl Jam shirt.
I couldn't  find that image online but did find this one below. It seems the Parkland Community  lost a good man to useless gun violence. And the Pearl Jam family as well.

Turns out he was a real jerk....
http://kdvr.com/2018/02/19/teacher-killed-in-florida-massacre-left-fiancee-funeral-instructions-in-case-he-died-in-a-school-shooting/amp/

No Coder

Okay, I have not read this whole discussion, but have read most of the last few weeks pages, so forgive me if I've missed something that has already been discussed.
As an outsider from Australia, I am certainly not 100% all over the specifics of the laws etc for gun ownership and purchasing, but do have some knowledge. I have been to the USA one multiple occasions for work and also worked alongside many Americans on deployments. I served 13 years in the Australian Airforce and have deployed to many locations and environments for months at a time with multiple of our Allied countries. So I have been around and handled weapons and also fully aware of the damage they can cause.

I really struggle to see why any person requires any semi automatic weapon. I have no issue with people wanting to hunt, target shoot etc, but why does anyone need a semi automatic???

Why can't the government put a ban on all of these weapons and put a buy back scheme in place for the ones already in use? Yes, there will still be ones in existence and the criminals will always find ways around things. But it hasn't been a criminal shooting up schools. And yes, it may cost the Gov a lot of money in the buy back scheme, so what? How much money is wasted by any government on other bullshit. 
I know from reading forums and Fbook, that this will be massively unpopular with some, who will quote rights etc, but when does children's lives start to outweigh their outdated rights? Government's are in place to make these decisions for the betterment of it's people and sometimes tough decisions need to be made

Commentators point to multiple other countries (including mine) that have changed laws or simply have never allowed this sort of weapon's access to civillians, but people still want to say that it won't work in the USA or that we are different in the USA. Yes, it is different, your schools are getting shot up a lot more regularly than ANYWHERE else in the Western world

I know the Government (and not just this current one) has been owned by the NRA for a LONG time, so this will most likely never happen, but hopefully these children that are not standing up and saying NOW is the time to talk and take action will be heard. It may take time, but that doesn't mean you don't start NOW

CM189191

What part of
"shall not be infringed"
do you not understand?!

No Coder

CM189191 said:

What part of
"shall not be infringed"
do you not understand?!

This is the hilarious part of the argument that other countries just shake their heads at. What about the citizens of the country having the right to live and their lives not being infringed by some lunatic with an AR-15?

"But God Damn if someone is going to infringe on my rights to have a weapon!!!"

When there is a problem (gun violence is a problem), law makers are able to CHANGE things to stop the problem being a problem, or at least attempt to do so. There has been plenty of government policies and bills across the world that have amendments made from the initial document, including the USA

mattsl1983

No Coder said:

Okay, I have not read this whole discussion, but have read most of the last few weeks pages, so forgive me if I've missed something that has already been discussed.
As an outsider from Australia, I am certainly not 100% all over the specifics of the laws etc for gun ownership and purchasing, but do have some knowledge. I have been to the USA one multiple occasions for work and also worked alongside many Americans on deployments. I served 13 years in the Australian Airforce and have deployed to many locations and environments for months at a time with multiple of our Allied countries. So I have been around and handled weapons and also fully aware of the damage they can cause.

I really struggle to see why any person requires any semi automatic weapon. I have no issue with people wanting to hunt, target shoot etc, but why does anyone need a semi automatic???

Why can't the government put a ban on all of these weapons and put a buy back scheme in place for the ones already in use? Yes, there will still be ones in existence and the criminals will always find ways around things. But it hasn't been a criminal shooting up schools. And yes, it may cost the Gov a lot of money in the buy back scheme, so what? How much money is wasted by any government on other bullshit. 
I know from reading forums and Fbook, that this will be massively unpopular with some, who will quote rights etc, but when does children's lives start to outweigh their outdated rights? Government's are in place to make these decisions for the betterment of it's people and sometimes tough decisions need to be made

Commentators point to multiple other countries (including mine) that have changed laws or simply have never allowed this sort of weapon's access to civillians, but people still want to say that it won't work in the USA or that we are different in the USA. Yes, it is different, your schools are getting shot up a lot more regularly than ANYWHERE else in the Western world

I know the Government (and not just this current one) has been owned by the NRA for a LONG time, so this will most likely never happen, but hopefully these children that are not standing up and saying NOW is the time to talk and take action will be heard. It may take time, but that doesn't mean you don't start NOW

The use of “need” and specifically always going after the horrible “ar15” are not very good talking points when it comes to gun control.  

I have never once heard anyone say they need an ar15.

If your argument is for stricter gun control, you should look at the statistics and go after handguns because more people are killed by handguns a year than any other gun.  Riffles, including the AR15, account for 3 percent of murders by firearms.  To me, always specifically saying the AR15 comes across as a knee jerk reaction.

I think most people are in favor of better regulations, the issue is how.  I hear the phrase “common sense” thrown out a lot.  What is common sense regulation though?  

I personally think there are more issues that tend to be ignored than just gun regulation.  We’ve had guns since the start.  Why all of a sudden does it appear that we are having more and more of these types of shootings?  Instead of just focusing on guns and trying to control what we think we can control, we need to put some focus and energy into looking at ourselves and our culture and ask why now.  What’s different?  Why does it seem more and more people just don’t value life anymore?  We can pass laws and ban all guns.  But just like drugs, they won’t magically disappear once they are illegal.

Lets just say the AR15 becomes illegal, what’s the solution once a shooting happens involving one?  Because I’m pretty sure if someone has it in their mind that they are going to kill a group of people, they won’t say “well damn, I was going to use this AR15, but I don’t want to break any laws.”  

Thoughts_Arrive

CM189191 said:

What part of
"shall not be infringed"
do you not understand?!

So your precious guns are more valuable than human life?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mattsl1983 said:

No Coder said:

Okay, I have not read this whole discussion, but have read most of the last few weeks pages, so forgive me if I've missed something that has already been discussed.
As an outsider from Australia, I am certainly not 100% all over the specifics of the laws etc for gun ownership and purchasing, but do have some knowledge. I have been to the USA one multiple occasions for work and also worked alongside many Americans on deployments. I served 13 years in the Australian Airforce and have deployed to many locations and environments for months at a time with multiple of our Allied countries. So I have been around and handled weapons and also fully aware of the damage they can cause.

I really struggle to see why any person requires any semi automatic weapon. I have no issue with people wanting to hunt, target shoot etc, but why does anyone need a semi automatic???

Why can't the government put a ban on all of these weapons and put a buy back scheme in place for the ones already in use? Yes, there will still be ones in existence and the criminals will always find ways around things. But it hasn't been a criminal shooting up schools. And yes, it may cost the Gov a lot of money in the buy back scheme, so what? How much money is wasted by any government on other bullshit. 
I know from reading forums and Fbook, that this will be massively unpopular with some, who will quote rights etc, but when does children's lives start to outweigh their outdated rights? Government's are in place to make these decisions for the betterment of it's people and sometimes tough decisions need to be made

Commentators point to multiple other countries (including mine) that have changed laws or simply have never allowed this sort of weapon's access to civillians, but people still want to say that it won't work in the USA or that we are different in the USA. Yes, it is different, your schools are getting shot up a lot more regularly than ANYWHERE else in the Western world

I know the Government (and not just this current one) has been owned by the NRA for a LONG time, so this will most likely never happen, but hopefully these children that are not standing up and saying NOW is the time to talk and take action will be heard. It may take time, but that doesn't mean you don't start NOW

The use of “need” and specifically always going after the horrible “ar15” are not very good talking points when it comes to gun control.  

I have never once heard anyone say they need an ar15.

If your argument is for stricter gun control, you should look at the statistics and go after handguns because more people are killed by handguns a year than any other gun.  Riffles, including the AR15, account for 3 percent of murders by firearms.  To me, always specifically saying the AR15 comes across as a knee jerk reaction.

I think most people are in favor of better regulations, the issue is how.  I hear the phrase “common sense” thrown out a lot.  What is common sense regulation though?  

I personally think there are more issues that tend to be ignored than just gun regulation.  We’ve had guns since the start.  Why all of a sudden does it appear that we are having more and more of these types of shootings?  Instead of just focusing on guns and trying to control what we think we can control, we need to put some focus and energy into looking at ourselves and our culture and ask why now.  What’s different?  Why does it seem more and more people just don’t value life anymore?  We can pass laws and ban all guns.  But just like drugs, they won’t magically disappear once they are illegal.

Lets just say the AR15 becomes illegal, what’s the solution once a shooting happens involving one?  Because I’m pretty sure if someone has it in their mind that they are going to kill a group of people, they won’t say “well damn, I was going to use this AR15, but I don’t want to break any laws.”  

Oh f**k then do nothing then. 

Private ownership of an AR15 is very reasonable and very practical. What are all us idiots talking about?

No Coder

mattsl1983 said:

No Coder said:

Okay, I have not read this whole discussion, but have read most of the last few weeks pages, so forgive me if I've missed something that has already been discussed.
As an outsider from Australia, I am certainly not 100% all over the specifics of the laws etc for gun ownership and purchasing, but do have some knowledge. I have been to the USA one multiple occasions for work and also worked alongside many Americans on deployments. I served 13 years in the Australian Airforce and have deployed to many locations and environments for months at a time with multiple of our Allied countries. So I have been around and handled weapons and also fully aware of the damage they can cause.

I really struggle to see why any person requires any semi automatic weapon. I have no issue with people wanting to hunt, target shoot etc, but why does anyone need a semi automatic???

Why can't the government put a ban on all of these weapons and put a buy back scheme in place for the ones already in use? Yes, there will still be ones in existence and the criminals will always find ways around things. But it hasn't been a criminal shooting up schools. And yes, it may cost the Gov a lot of money in the buy back scheme, so what? How much money is wasted by any government on other bullshit. 
I know from reading forums and Fbook, that this will be massively unpopular with some, who will quote rights etc, but when does children's lives start to outweigh their outdated rights? Government's are in place to make these decisions for the betterment of it's people and sometimes tough decisions need to be made

Commentators point to multiple other countries (including mine) that have changed laws or simply have never allowed this sort of weapon's access to civillians, but people still want to say that it won't work in the USA or that we are different in the USA. Yes, it is different, your schools are getting shot up a lot more regularly than ANYWHERE else in the Western world

I know the Government (and not just this current one) has been owned by the NRA for a LONG time, so this will most likely never happen, but hopefully these children that are not standing up and saying NOW is the time to talk and take action will be heard. It may take time, but that doesn't mean you don't start NOW

The use of “need” and specifically always going after the horrible “ar15” are not very good talking points when it comes to gun control.  

I have never once heard anyone say they need an ar15.

If your argument is for stricter gun control, you should look at the statistics and go after handguns because more people are killed by handguns a year than any other gun.  Riffles, including the AR15, account for 3 percent of murders by firearms.  To me, always specifically saying the AR15 comes across as a knee jerk reaction.

I think most people are in favor of better regulations, the issue is how.  I hear the phrase “common sense” thrown out a lot.  What is common sense regulation though?  

I personally think there are more issues that tend to be ignored than just gun regulation.  We’ve had guns since the start.  Why all of a sudden does it appear that we are having more and more of these types of shootings?  Instead of just focusing on guns and trying to control what we think we can control, we need to put some focus and energy into looking at ourselves and our culture and ask why now.  What’s different?  Why does it seem more and more people just don’t value life anymore?  We can pass laws and ban all guns.  But just like drugs, they won’t magically disappear once they are illegal.

Lets just say the AR15 becomes illegal, what’s the solution once a shooting happens involving one?  Because I’m pretty sure if someone has it in their mind that they are going to kill a group of people, they won’t say “well damn, I was going to use this AR15, but I don’t want to break any laws.”  

I understand your point, but I never specifically said ban AR-15's. I said ALL semi automatic and automatic weapons. Yes, handguns kill plenty of people as well, but the majority of mass shootings in the last decade, to my knowledge, have all involved a semi automatic. Happy to be corrected. And as has been pointed out, some of the recent massacres, were carried out by people with no criminal history and purchased legitimately. So perhaps if he was unable to purchase this so easily, it may have been preventable. At the VERY LEAST, far more rigid checks need to be in place on anyone wishing to purchase a weapon

If I had my way, no-one would have a gun of any description without a specific requirement (farming, etc), but that's not ever going to happen.

Banning these weapons alone, is not the solution. A lot more needs to be done with mental health and support for people in life, but it all needs to start happening sooner, rather than later.

riley540

There isn’t any affective solution I have heard yet. I personally don’t have a good idea to end school shootings, but I haven’t heard any ideas that would actually change anything 

riley540

I wish people that were educated on the issue could come together to map out a legit solution. Even if AR15s are banned, any other rifle or hand gun will do the trick. 

riley540

And a seizure of all weapons will never happen, as much as people want it too. I really cannot think of a real solution. It’s sad, and it sucks, but I have to be realistic. This same thing will happen again by the end of the year, regardless of laws 

rgambs

Ahah, so we've passed into the "no solution is perfect so let's do nothing" phase of the argument.
That means it will be over soon, until a few more people get mowed down by a ridiculous penis compensating weapon.

riotgrl

riley540 said:

There isn’t any affective solution I have heard yet. I personally don’t have a good idea to end school shootings, but I haven’t heard any ideas that would actually change anything 

Really?  I've seen both long term and short term solutions mentioned by numerous people here that don't include complete bans.  Just to clarify, in the short term, background checks, required safety courses, required courses on storing guns are things that won't work?  And in the long term, stocking our schools full of people that can help identify, intervene, and help those with anger issues so they don't execute kids while they are at school, won't work?  I guess my questions is, why won't those things work, in your opinion? 

Hi!

unsung

Thoughts_Arrive

Hi! said:

Fucking POS.

Halifax2TheMax

unsung said:

Makes you proud, don’t it?

Halifax2TheMax

“Liberty memes?” Wow.

josevolution

Absolutely nothing’s changed , and it won’t and we all will be back again soon do if you have kids in school give them good advice , fuck the homework keep your eyes on the door you just never know when the next shooter will come knocking ..

Thoughts_Arrive

josevolution said:

Absolutely nothing’s changed , and it won’t and we all will be back again soon do if you have kids in school give them good advice , fuck the homework keep your eyes on the door you just never know when the next shooter will come knocking ..

Very sad. I feel for the kids. I'd be going to school wearing a vest.

Thoughts_Arrive

unsung said:

You're a Trump fan I assume?

unsung

No.  I am a firearms fan and a fan of the Constitution.  I also prefer to protect these kids in a way that will actually work.

Bentleyspop

https://twitter.com/PearlJam/status/964748752610213888

unsung

People should be asking that kids not be placed amongst the fish in a barrel.

Or maybe you all would prefer to get on that airplane now without any security checks?

When the next white cop shoots an unarmed black man will you be blaming the gun?

Let me know when the outrage gets to be enough to march on some inner city streets.

PJPOWER

josevolution said:

Absolutely nothing’s changed , and it won’t and we all will be back again soon do if you have kids in school give them good advice , fuck the homework keep your eyes on the door you just never know when the next shooter will come knocking ..

Actually, here in TX, a lot is changing.  It has nothing to do with legislation per se, but a ton of schools are arming school personnel in one way or another and have a lot of public support.  They are also doing “safety audits”, where a 3rd party comes in and looks for defiencies and educates school officials on how to best secure their individual campuses.
Also, there are “Active Shooter Awareness” and seminars being offered to the public for free by law enforcement agencies almost every other week it seems.  Some are requiring teachers to take the equivalent of combat first aid courses to be able to better respond and reduce loss of life if a shooting should take place.  
Of course, since this is driven by local districts and not legislation, it is not a statewide initiative or mandate.  More and more districts are jumping on board, though.  
I know that there are plenty of you that are against this approach, but I fully support it.  Better damn well believe that these safety measures will be a deciding factor as to where my child goes to school. 
In TX, it is just a reality that firearms will ALWAYS be available to the public, so this approach seems the most logical.  It is very proactive while the rest of the country waits for politicians to “put a little fixer on it”.

Now here come the inevitable “more guns is not the answer, but I don’t have any answers” comments.
Who wants to place bets on whether or not one of these “armed” schools experiences a massacre?  My money is on the armed school.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

No.  I am a firearms fan and a fan of the Constitution.  I also prefer to protect these kids in a way that will actually work.

Don't forget you are also a guy that wants the government to stay out of people's lives... but also wants them to catch warning signs for potential shooters (presumably by monitoring behaviours).

In other words... conflicted. You don't truly know where you really are at.