I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...
I think that is a horrific idea.
More horrific than 17 bodies?
Exactly let’s just ask those parents if they would of mind having their kids waiting in line to get into school safely and coming home alive , I’d say everyone of those families would sign up in a heartbeat
Question: How does a gunman get through a metal detector?
I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...
I think that is a horrific idea.
More horrific than 17 bodies?
and then what happens when you have the first student to be murdered by a teacher? "i thought he was reaching for a gun! it turned out it was just his protractor!"
Then the same thing happens to them that happens to police in that situation. They get tried for murder. That’s why good “training” is so important, to minimize those possibilities.
teachers have it tough enough as it is. arming them and training them to deal with these situations is so far from the answer, i really can't even believe it's being seriously suggested and embraced.
It is unbelievable that this has even been entertained outside of a few 'out there' posts What a strange place.
To you and HFD whom you quoted I say this: If this is an indictment against America and our core values and sickness, I accept it. If it's an indictment on those of us who are entertaining this idea, I reject and I call bullshit. Easily done from Canada. You sit back with your superior society and judge us as a whole, yeah I agree, it's bonkers here. But if you sit there and start questioning the actions and ideas of people who are getting desperate in ways that you really can't relate to, then that's pretty shitty.
I think I can speak for Hugh as well here. We're not flaunting anything. We're genuinely hurting for you guys.
Canadians like Americans (and everyone else for that matter).
Honest question: why didn't democrats do anything about gun control when they had the house and senate during the first two years of Obama's presidency? Was it because they were actually afraid of losing seats like they did in '94 when they passed assault weapons bill? Just thinking, fuck we had our chance, what the hell happened?
Honest question: why didn't democrats do anything about gun control when they had the house and senate during the first two years of Obama's presidency? Was it because they were actually afraid of losing seats like they did in '94 when they passed assault weapons bill? Just thinking, fuck we had our chance, what the hell happened?
Great question. They even had a filibuster-proof majority. You are 100% correct that it was to save their election chances. They had passed a big stimulus bill, and ObamaCare, and were already feeling heat. So I'm sure they didn't want to rock the boat any further. But they fucking blew their chance. VA Tech shooting was still fresh. There was still outrage. But they dropped the ball. Hopefully they'll get another chance in 2020 (well, 2021) to show that they're serious about this issue.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Honest question: why didn't democrats do anything about gun control when they had the house and senate during the first two years of Obama's presidency? Was it because they were actually afraid of losing seats like they did in '94 when they passed assault weapons bill? Just thinking, fuck we had our chance, what the hell happened?
We can only fix so many of the Republican fuck ups at a time. Pretty sure Obama was focused on ACA and finding his birth certificate those first couple years.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Honest question: why didn't democrats do anything about gun control when they had the house and senate during the first two years of Obama's presidency? Was it because they were actually afraid of losing seats like they did in '94 when they passed assault weapons bill? Just thinking, fuck we had our chance, what the hell happened?
Then they would lose a hot topic issue hook to keep people voting for them.
Honest question: why didn't democrats do anything about gun control when they had the house and senate during the first two years of Obama's presidency? Was it because they were actually afraid of losing seats like they did in '94 when they passed assault weapons bill? Just thinking, fuck we had our chance, what the hell happened?
We can only fix so many of the Republican fuck ups at a time. Pretty sure Obama was focused on ACA and finding his birth certificate those first couple years.
He worked so hard to work across the aisle and make it a bipartisan solution. We all saw that can't be done.
Soon nothing would get done until they get an awful POTUS who screws the average joe with damaging partisan bills or just signs an executive order.
Honest question: why didn't democrats do anything about gun control when they had the house and senate during the first two years of Obama's presidency? Was it because they were actually afraid of losing seats like they did in '94 when they passed assault weapons bill? Just thinking, fuck we had our chance, what the hell happened?
Then they would lose a hot topic issue hook to keep people voting for them.
Interesting, I'm wondering what hot topic issue hook made you vote for Trump?
Honest question: why didn't democrats do anything about gun control when they had the house and senate during the first two years of Obama's presidency? Was it because they were actually afraid of losing seats like they did in '94 when they passed assault weapons bill? Just thinking, fuck we had our chance, what the hell happened?
Then they would lose a hot topic issue hook to keep people voting for them.
Interesting, I'm wondering what the hot topic issue hook made you vote for Trump?
Dems try logic and reason. Republicans only use hot topic issues to dupe the rubes
here's my plan: the really smart people like Trump and Tomi Lahren can lock themselves in a room until they come with a cure for mental illness. in the meantime, the rest of us dummies can get some common sense gun laws passed. what do you say?
Why do they always look creepy? That Sandy Hook killer looks creepy, every single school shooter looks creepy.
because they're creepy
I think some of the “creepy” look may actually be a contributor. What kinds of motives are created when a child looks “creepy”? What usually happens to a “creepy” looking child throughout their years in high school?
This shitbird played the part of creep. DId you read the stuff on how everyone around him worried about him- torturing animals, thieving, threatening, and being generally creepy? A f**kwad.
Some people there is no hope for. We're a bizarre species and some of us are just designed poorly.
I saw on the news he was photographed with a Trump 'make America great again' cap.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
In restaurants: They should have guns attached underneath tables so if a gunman walks in then diners can just reach under their table and BANG! And they should have them in toilets, hidden just like in The Godfather, then anyone taking a piss or shit whilst a shooting is happening in the dining area can come out guns blazing.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Say we spend the billions necessary to make every school have armed security, that still leaves every other large public place or even one of those goddamn gas station on the side of a highway that is the super stop with dozens of people there as open targets. Sure, some random do-gooder could be armed, but maybe we'll need to implement armed security there too, and then all hotel lobbies, restaurants, the zoo, a public park, fucking beaches! Hell, pay phones used to be how we easily called people when we were away from our house, maybe instead we could have gun safes with a stockpile of weapons at these places so the average citizen could put on the cape and play hero if something happens. Why stop at schools. Mandate one adult in every house to own and carry a handgun at all times. Safety first!
Yep. Hypothetically speaking, let's go ahead and arm the schools. Maybe school shooting will happen less frequently, maybe not. But if it does lessen school shootings, other public shootings would then rise. So now you have more guns, and the same amount of shootings, just in different places. Someone with a gun and an urge to kill is gonna kill, and they're going to look for the easiest target. More guns is not the solution.
I've posted this before, but:
PROBLEM: Shark attacks are on the rise.
SOLUTIONS: Australia: Let's put up safety nets to prevent sharks from getting to close to beachgoers. USA: Everyone buy a shark to protect you from the other sharks!
Sounds ridiculous, no?
HAHAHA! What if the sharks were armed with guns?
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
I cant help but to wonder if one of the "17 intelligence agencys" could have prevented the Nicolas Cruz Parkland school massacre when he facebook posted that he wanted to be a "professional school shooter" under the name "Nikolai Cruzoff"?
Surprised Trump hasn't gotten into the Latinos again with his surname being Cruz.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
I offered some pieces of potential legislation a few posts back. Would you be in favour of them?
"Off the top of my head and specifically to this problem... change needs to be the outright stoppage of AR15 sales (and any similar weapon)... the banning of high capacity magazines... a buy back program... a registry for any 'grandfathered' AR15... restricted ammunition sales... and harsh penalties for anyone breaching the aforementioned items." Is what you're referring to?
I would have different suggestions. Buyback would be very expensive. Many would cost $1000 or more, times how many millions are out there? And as said, there's already millions, a "grandfathered" AR would still make it very easy to get.
I don't see the need to ban assault rifles if they are made to function like any other rifle. These mass shootings with assault rifles would only have a fraction of the damage if they had fixed magazines with a capacity of 5. That would make it no more deadly than hundreds of other rifles out there, and if someone wants to use it to hunt or target practice, then fine. If someone likes having a pistol grip, fine, but its on a gun with fixed magazine of 5 rounds. I have no interest in assault rifles myself, I own none. Every rifle I own is either bolt action, lever action, a .22, or black powder. So I am not 100% familiar with the design of an assault rifle, but I believe I know enough to assume changing the feeding mechanism to a fixed magazine is not something terribly difficult or expensive. Even have the government offer a $75 rebate to cover costs on every gun this is done to (and will be far cheaper than a buyback). Give owners 1 year to comply, and if they are caught without a fixed magazine after that year it is confiscated without reimbursement and a stiff fine/penalty on top. That's not the only change I'd support, but with respect to specificially assault rifles I think that would address that issue.
Australia introduced a buy back after the 1996 Port Arthur masacare. Gun crime greatly reduced after that. The best thing any Prime Minister has done regarding guns.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
The thing that sucks is these families have no one to turn too their kids will have been murdered in vain cause we all know after about a week this issue will go dormant and that is a tragedy !!
Yeah that's sad. Forgotten. Fuck the NRA!
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Teachers got into teaching because they want to teach. They are not the people you want to train as ERT members to take down an active shooter.
Don't think for a second that the public wouldn't crucify a teacher in charge that makes a questionable decision to shoot some kid that is a threat.
Asking for teachers to safeguard the schools (with some solid training) instead of addressing the root of the problem first is asinine. And... it's another 'reach' to try and preserve the status quo.
Police officers here get vilified by the public for fatally shooting armed suspects. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If being asked to be armed was expected of teachers then I wouldn't want to become a teacher.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
What's asinine is thinking that you can solve the very biggest problems that have plagued the human race since the dawn of civilization and taking precautions to save children's lives in the meantime is a distraction.
All these mass shootings are a very American problem, not one that plagued all of mankind... Taking precautions is one thing. Searching children as they enter school and having metal detecotrs and highly controlled activity and armed guards walking around isn't the right solution. It's a sledgehammer solution that will not contribute positively to kids or society.
Ok so in other words let’s just do nothing , see you guys back here again soon .. how many kids you think will be comfortable just walking back into this school that just got shot up ...
No wonder anxiety disorders are on the rise.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane. What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of? Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?
Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.
And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.
If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.
I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...
This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.
Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered. What's changed since then? How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?
So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.
My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.
Hey! Don't pick on art teachers lol
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane. What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of? Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?
Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.
And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.
If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.
I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...
This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.
Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered. What's changed since then? How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?
So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.
My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.
Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings? Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape. In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.
Not so fast. You're making the assumption that the trained teacher would perform well under the pressure of the real deal. I can think of other scenarios that might have made the situation even worse.
I am a qualified and long tenured OFA Level II attendant. I've seen other trained and certified attendants fail under the pressure of a serious injury. Just because someone passes the tests doesn't mean they are qualified or suitable.
This! That's why to become a police officer you are put through psychological tests to see if you are right for the job of serving and protecting.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Schools already have these things - armed personnel, locked doors, metal detectors and it doesn't stop these shooters. Instead of investing more money in things that treat symptoms, start treating the root causes. I teach high school in a district that has 21 high schools. Do you know how many psychologists my school has? 1 - for 2 high schools which means she treats roughly 3,000 kids. We have 4 counselors at my school that see 600 kids each - for mental health issues, class scheduling, college visits, testing, etc. etc. We have no school nurses to care for our kids. We have no social workers - how do we help these kids that have no help at home?? I have 31 kids in each class so I see roughly 150 kids a day - how well do you think I get to know EACH of these kids? Hardly at all yet, I am responsible for not just teaching them but making sure they are safe and that if they are having a mental health issue that i somehow catch it. All of this costs money and I live in Kentucky which continues to vilify us teachers and take more and more money from these kids. There are ways and gun control legislation should be part of the overall effort but you've got to invest in kids at these schools. That means increasing taxes to help kids who may not belong to you but if you help them then you help all of of us to improve.
Did this school have the metal detectors, locked doors, armed personnel? It may have, but I have not seen that reported. I know these regulations vary district by district and state by state. I agree with pretty much everything else you said. I gather by reading your post that you feel lack of mental health treatment is the root cause?
I think that mental health issues play a role for some shootings but I do not think that applies to every situation. I am all for gun control, background checks, mental health checks, gun registries and whatever we can do to keep people safe. The second amendment is only a part of the Constitution - what about the general welfare, the common good?
As a teacher, I am a nurturer and the teachers that I know that aren't super nurturing are the very ones that want to be armed and they are the last ones that I would trust to tote a gun around my school. That includes the 4 security guards that we have, 2 of whom are retired cops. I believe that those 2 carry guns on to campus even though they are not supposed to do so at my school because they are not SRO's (school resource officers). Those two men worry me and they are trained to have guns. I understand that we don't live in an ideal world and that many of you are for arming people in schools, metal detectors, fences, gates, guards, etc. to keep kids safe but really, as someone said previously, this is NOT a police state. Our schools should be places for our children to grow, blossom, and generally a positive, safe space. I get it, fixing all those things I mentioned earlier are most likely not going to happen, but Jesus, when are we going to put kids first? The ignorant moron that is the governor of my state blames violent video games and rap music and everything but the slashing of education and social services that he is doing. He wants prayer in the school (already is here) and Bible classes taught because he thinks that will magically make up for the problems of poverty. These other countries ban guns but in my mind they have something we don't have in this country and that is concern for our fellow citizens (of course, I don't mean everyone). When poor people are demonized rather than helped, well, then, we get compounded problems that feel insurmountable.
What a moron that governor is. Fuck him and his religious shit. I am sick and tired and angry at idiots blaming violent video games, rap music, heavy metal music. Me and many of my peers grew up with these and are completely peaceful beings. I find it insane that children need to go to school in an unsafe environment and with all this security. I picture in my mind a prison environment.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane. What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of? Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?
Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.
And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.
If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.
I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...
This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.
Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered. What's changed since then? How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?
So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.
My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.
I don't care that you were joking, I think a Navy Seal in every school is an idea worth exploring.
Nice straw man there Thirty, you read my posts, you know I don't want guns shoved into art teachers' hands. Did you read about the hero assistant football coach? He sacrificed his body to save students after getting at least one out of the building. You don't think he might have made a difference with training and access? You don't think there are brave and competent men and women like him in nearly every school? Yeah, it's fucked up to even entertain the notion. But we live at the capital of Fucked Upland and we need to protect these poor kids.
I wasn't joking. Wtf man?
I'm saying if the US wants to go the route of placing armed attendants in their schools... then they should put armed attendants in their schools- not 'wannabes'.
At this point... it's not a horrible idea.
But as someone else said... there are daycares... there are hospitals... there are malls. No schools because those places are too risky? No problem! I'll find another soft target because there are countless soft targets.
I thought you were being sarcastic. I need to cool down lol
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...
I think that is a horrific idea.
More horrific than 17 bodies?
and then what happens when you have the first student to be murdered by a teacher? "i thought he was reaching for a gun! it turned out it was just his protractor!"
If teachers had guns when I was in high school the teacher probably would've put 5 rounds into my chest for being a clown in class.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...
I think that is a horrific idea.
More horrific than 17 bodies?
and then what happens when you have the first student to be murdered by a teacher? "i thought he was reaching for a gun! it turned out it was just his protractor!"
Then the same thing happens to them that happens to police in that situation. They get tried for murder. That’s why good “training” is so important, to minimize those possibilities.
teachers have it tough enough as it is. arming them and training them to deal with these situations is so far from the answer, i really can't even believe it's being seriously suggested and embraced.
I respectfully disagree, but thanks for your opinion.
Do you even know what the job of teaching entails?
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
the shit i've been reading on twitter this morning from the right. all of a sudden it's a mental health issue. for decades the republicans refuted any claim that mental illness was actually a problem. as soon as they figured out they could use it as an excuse to deflect from the gun problem, voila, all of a sudden they agree it's a problem. disgusting people.
They are an evil organisation. How do they live with themselves and sleep at night knowing they have blood on their hands.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Comments
A: He walks through
Canadians like Americans (and everyone else for that matter).
Soon nothing would get done until they get an awful POTUS who screws the average joe with damaging partisan bills or just signs an executive order.
Yet the mouth breathers on the right cheer.
A teacher's job is complex and stressful enough without having to get them to be trained shooters.
I'd ask to be home schooled.
They should have guns attached underneath tables so if a gunman walks in then diners can just reach under their table and BANG!
And they should have them in toilets, hidden just like in The Godfather, then anyone taking a piss or shit whilst a shooting is happening in the dining area can come out guns blazing.
What if the sharks were armed with guns?
Gun crime greatly reduced after that.
The best thing any Prime Minister has done regarding guns.
Forgotten.
Fuck the NRA!
If being asked to be armed was expected of teachers then I wouldn't want to become a teacher.
That's why to become a police officer you are put through psychological tests to see if you are right for the job of serving and protecting.
Fuck him and his religious shit.
I am sick and tired and angry at idiots blaming violent video games, rap music, heavy metal music.
Me and many of my peers grew up with these and are completely peaceful beings.
I find it insane that children need to go to school in an unsafe environment and with all this security. I picture in my mind a prison environment.