The kid was mentally ill. His therapist knew it...his parents knew it. Unfortunately the gun culture and NRA freak show will not let legislation pass that would allow the information to be available to the police, etc. as to who is being treated for mental illness and, of those people, who owns a gun.
He shouldn't have been allowed to buy a gun in the first place. Secondly the police should have known that he had weapons and confiscated them when they spoke to him about the threats.
But that violates his second amendment rights I assume?
The second amendment is the most misinterpreted of the entire document....and many innocent people are being killed because of it.
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
If you can go buy a gun it's not an anti gunners dream state. This story proves this.
As to guy avoiding certain places due to gun retaliation, well that's conjecture from one sided view.
Rather not have the average gun toting joe becoming my protector.
What Elliot Rodger could have learned from poet Charles Bukowski Isla Vista Tony Pierce, guest blogger
One of the best things about author Charles Bukowski is that he was not pretty and yet he still found intimacy with women.
It’s a truly valuable lesson because any man can strut around if he’s tall, handsome and wealthy. Imagine you’re squat, pockmarked, fat and poor. If you can attract women with all that working against you, then yeah people should read your books. Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. -
Friday night, Elliot Rodger, a rich pretty boy from the Valley drove a new BMW around a college town and shot at girls who in his mind wouldn’t give him the time of day. In the end, he killed six UC Santa Barbara students and wounded 13 during his rampage around Isla Vista.
In a series of YouTube videos, Rodger said he was frustrated because he was 22 and still a virgin despite being what he considered to be beautiful.
Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. The author too was dismayed by a good chunk of American society, but he pushed through. In fact, the main themes of his poetry and prose focus on an important message: No matter what cards you are dealt, you play them. You don’t turn over the table, you don’t cheat, you don’t raise your fist at the sky and ask why wasn’t I born a 6-foot-5 water polo god? You do you your thing, you make your own luck, you turn to the woman next to you and you accept what comes next.
Despite being ridiculously prolific, Bukowski would sometimes go back to his masterpieces and edit them before they were published or placed in an anthology.
The 1977 poem “The Crunch” probably would have resonated best with Rodger.
Here are the three versions of it, all great in their little ways.
“there is a loneliness in this world so great
that you can see it in the slow movement of
the hands of a clock,” states Bukowski, plainly, almost scientifically.
Please tell me the city college virgin wouldn’t have seen himself in this bit from the final edited version:
“we forget the terror of one person
aching in one room
alone
unkissed
untouched
cut off
watering a plant alone
without a telephone that would never
ring
anyway.”
The lesson of Bukowski is he can bust out with something like that, such a clear stark blast, but when he’s done he pours a glass of wine, smiles to himself drinks the wine, alone or otherwise and feels beautiful inside where it counts.
We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't.
Well then you can continue to be fish in a barrel for these murderers.
I'll retain the right to defend my family and myself.
Have a good day.
Live in freakin Houston. Neighbor was robbed few years ago. Downtown a lot just don't fear it. Likely robber will want my cash and he can have it. If we both have guns there will be a shootout. Will just avoid.
What Elliot Rodger could have learned from poet Charles Bukowski Isla Vista Tony Pierce, guest blogger
One of the best things about author Charles Bukowski is that he was not pretty and yet he still found intimacy with women.
It’s a truly valuable lesson because any man can strut around if he’s tall, handsome and wealthy. Imagine you’re squat, pockmarked, fat and poor. If you can attract women with all that working against you, then yeah people should read your books. Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. -
Friday night, Elliot Rodger, a rich pretty boy from the Valley drove a new BMW around a college town and shot at girls who in his mind wouldn’t give him the time of day. In the end, he killed six UC Santa Barbara students and wounded 13 during his rampage around Isla Vista.
In a series of YouTube videos, Rodger said he was frustrated because he was 22 and still a virgin despite being what he considered to be beautiful.
Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. The author too was dismayed by a good chunk of American society, but he pushed through. In fact, the main themes of his poetry and prose focus on an important message: No matter what cards you are dealt, you play them. You don’t turn over the table, you don’t cheat, you don’t raise your fist at the sky and ask why wasn’t I born a 6-foot-5 water polo god? You do you your thing, you make your own luck, you turn to the woman next to you and you accept what comes next.
Despite being ridiculously prolific, Bukowski would sometimes go back to his masterpieces and edit them before they were published or placed in an anthology.
The 1977 poem “The Crunch” probably would have resonated best with Rodger.
Here are the three versions of it, all great in their little ways.
“there is a loneliness in this world so great
that you can see it in the slow movement of
the hands of a clock,” states Bukowski, plainly, almost scientifically.
Please tell me the city college virgin wouldn’t have seen himself in this bit from the final edited version:
“we forget the terror of one person
aching in one room
alone
unkissed
untouched
cut off
watering a plant alone
without a telephone that would never
ring
anyway.”
The lesson of Bukowski is he can bust out with something like that, such a clear stark blast, but when he’s done he pours a glass of wine, smiles to himself drinks the wine, alone or otherwise and feels beautiful inside where it counts.
We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't.
What Elliot Rodger could have learned from poet Charles Bukowski Isla Vista Tony Pierce, guest blogger
One of the best things about author Charles Bukowski is that he was not pretty and yet he still found intimacy with women.
It’s a truly valuable lesson because any man can strut around if he’s tall, handsome and wealthy. Imagine you’re squat, pockmarked, fat and poor. If you can attract women with all that working against you, then yeah people should read your books. Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. -
Friday night, Elliot Rodger, a rich pretty boy from the Valley drove a new BMW around a college town and shot at girls who in his mind wouldn’t give him the time of day. In the end, he killed six UC Santa Barbara students and wounded 13 during his rampage around Isla Vista.
In a series of YouTube videos, Rodger said he was frustrated because he was 22 and still a virgin despite being what he considered to be beautiful.
Bukowski needs to be taught in every school. The author too was dismayed by a good chunk of American society, but he pushed through. In fact, the main themes of his poetry and prose focus on an important message: No matter what cards you are dealt, you play them. You don’t turn over the table, you don’t cheat, you don’t raise your fist at the sky and ask why wasn’t I born a 6-foot-5 water polo god? You do you your thing, you make your own luck, you turn to the woman next to you and you accept what comes next.
Despite being ridiculously prolific, Bukowski would sometimes go back to his masterpieces and edit them before they were published or placed in an anthology.
The 1977 poem “The Crunch” probably would have resonated best with Rodger.
Here are the three versions of it, all great in their little ways.
“there is a loneliness in this world so great
that you can see it in the slow movement of
the hands of a clock,” states Bukowski, plainly, almost scientifically.
Please tell me the city college virgin wouldn’t have seen himself in this bit from the final edited version:
“we forget the terror of one person
aching in one room
alone
unkissed
untouched
cut off
watering a plant alone
without a telephone that would never
ring
anyway.”
The lesson of Bukowski is he can bust out with something like that, such a clear stark blast, but when he’s done he pours a glass of wine, smiles to himself drinks the wine, alone or otherwise and feels beautiful inside where it counts.
thank you, sir a beautiful post
i have been told to read bukowski & i have a very little bit but never dove into his stuff. writing is my thing moreso than reading as i want my own... (way) that & my attention span is that of a piece of worn down chalk nearly ungraspable
this is the key elliot shoulda picked up... poetry & finding his center i will reinforce your words: brokedown car, slim wallet, holes in shoes, a otherwise empty refrigerator but for the two year old jar of mayonnaise i forgot was rotting there
i am a poor ass dude who worships women as goddesses therefore poetry is birthed as are wet i am kissed, warmed & thrilled hell, my barbaric nature is even accepted most of the time i am grateful as i am
There are a few issues with our current obsession with guns...
1. Situations like Elliot Rogers....deranged killer, etc. 2. Situations where innocent people get shot/killed by accident. My news feed on facebook has almost daily posts where someone is shot because of accident. Yesterday there was a story about a lady who got shot in Walmart because some moron dropped his loaded weapon...supposedly just barely missed her infant. Today I see where a 6 year old killed his Grandpa at a family picnic because a moron left an assault rifle sitting out.
These stories will become very frequent....they will result in massive changes to our gun laws.
Keep in mind that the reason our gun laws will become more stringent is directly related to our gun laws (currently) becoming more relaxed.
I own a gun...I have a lifetime carry permit....so there
I wonder if the really "pro gun" people really give any thought to what they support. Take the guy who killed all of those people in the movie theatre a few years ago. In all of the confusion in that theatre...do you really picture yourself pulling out your gun and being the hero? It's much more likely that you would pull out your gun and shoot an innocent person in the melee taking place during a shooting like that.
I can't help but picture a scene like that where several people pull out guns and then the confusion becomes "who is the actual shooter?" Especially when the police arrive.....
Post edited by Gern Blansten on
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Exactly...
And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...
Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
You don't just hand out Guns to anyone you say?...No of course not only Psycho Murderers going on a Killing Spree and He passed all the Background Checks as well like Cosmo said there's something Wrong there.
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Exactly...
And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...
Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.
... The thing I don't understand... how is putting more bullets in the air... coming from different directions... with terrified people running in several directions... make us safer? And how do we know who is the initial shooter, if there are a bunch of people shooting? Wouldn't it add to the confusion? ... I mean, let's say I have a concealed weapon and a leagal permit to carry it. I see the initial shots and can correctly identify the shooter. I draw my weapon an fire in his direction. Meanwhile... Mr. Gunrights, who also has a legal permit to carry a weapon, hears the shots (from both guns) and runs towards them hoping to stop the shooting. He rounds the corner and sees my... and put 3 rounds into me. How to you tell who is the bad guy with a gun... from the good guy with a gun?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.
As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.
As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.
Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Exactly...
And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...
Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.
... The thing I don't understand... how is putting more bullets in the air... coming from different directions... with terrified people running in several directions... make us safer? And how do we know who is the initial shooter, if there are a bunch of people shooting? Wouldn't it add to the confusion? ... I mean, let's say I have a concealed weapon and a leagal permit to carry it. I see the initial shots and can correctly identify the shooter. I draw my weapon an fire in his direction. Meanwhile... Mr. Gunrights, who also has a legal permit to carry a weapon, hears the shots (from both guns) and runs towards them hoping to stop the shooting. He rounds the corner and sees my... and put 3 rounds into me. How to you tell who is the bad guy with a gun... from the good guy with a gun?
Exactly....and situations like that will happen.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.
As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.
Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.
Did they really fuck up though? Or was there basically nothing they could do?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Did they really fuck up though? Or was there basically nothing they could do?
They could have searched his place a bit. Pretty sure they had a legal right to or could have gotten a warrant given the therapist's warnings and his behaviour online. If they'd just looked in his bedroom they would have found his guns and probably plenty of other crazy shit. They also could have done an online investigation of what this guy was up to online. That would have set off some alarms too. Instead, they knocked on his door and asked a few questions and decided that the guy whose therapist called the cops on seemed normal enough in their books. That seems like a pretty big fuck up to me.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Cops can't apprehend or detain someone because a therapist suggests they should.
I never said they should apprehend or detain him just because of what his therapist said. They just should have investigated further. They didn't have to look very hard to realize what this guy was planning to do.
That said, laws should be changed to that they CAN detain him for questioning for, say, 24 hours if his therapist says he's a danger to others. I mean, the government can apparently monitor everything we do online.... cops can't be allowed to monitor computer use of someone whose therapist says is a danger to the public? That's ridiculous.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Exactly...
And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...
Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.
all good points but....what about my right to own a gun ? are you saying no guns for the public ?
Cops can't apprehend or detain someone because a therapist suggests they should.
I never said they should apprehend or detain him just because of what his therapist said. They just should have investigated further. They didn't have to look very hard to realize what this guy was planning to do.
That said, laws should be changed to that they CAN detain him for questioning for, say, 24 hours if his therapist says he's a danger to others. I mean, the government can apparently monitor everything we do online.... cops can't be allowed to monitor computer use of someone whose therapist says is a danger to the public? That's ridiculous.
But this would be to assume there is a large enough force with the sufficient funding required to do what you suggest. I guarantee, with all the other items out there short-staffed and underfunded police forces deal with, that they would have had difficulty monitoring this situation as hindsight would have them do.
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.
As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.
... How do people carrying a concealed weapon STOP a mass shooting? ... And if you check the facts... the e-mails were sent at 9:17 P.M. and the shooting began at 9:27. That is 10 minutes for the recipients of the emails to open them and read them. That is assuming that they read the messages as soon as they came in. In that time, Rodger's therapist caled the mother to inform her that she needed to read the e-mail. When she did, she contacted the father and dialed 9-1-1 as they drover towards Santa Barbara. The therapist is forbidden by law to contact police regarding a patient. A counselor opened the email at 10:00 and called police minutes later, but it was too late. So, you blame the police because they could not track down the whereabouts of a specific individual in a college community on a Friday night within the maximum of 10 minutes (if they even had 10 minutes because the mother called the father first, then dialed 9-1-1). In order for them to do something you suggest... stopping a specific individual in a matter of minutes... they would need everyone to have a GPS transponder on their body so each individula can be monitored by the police and deploy some sort of airborne response. So... do you want a GPS transponder that police can readily identify you on your body at all times? I don't.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Cops can't apprehend or detain someone because a therapist suggests they should.
I never said they should apprehend or detain him just because of what his therapist said. They just should have investigated further. They didn't have to look very hard to realize what this guy was planning to do.
That said, laws should be changed to that they CAN detain him for questioning for, say, 24 hours if his therapist says he's a danger to others. I mean, the government can apparently monitor everything we do online.... cops can't be allowed to monitor computer use of someone whose therapist says is a danger to the public? That's ridiculous.
But this would be to assume there is a large enough force with the sufficient funding required to do what you suggest. I guarantee, with all the other items out there short-staffed and underfunded police forces deal with, that they would have had difficulty monitoring this situation as hindsight would have them do.
Yeah, for all we know they get a lot of calls saying that someone is a threat that amounts to nothing.
Maybe they fucked up....but it doesn't see like we have enough info to lay blame on them for this one.
We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.
He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.
California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.
... Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate? ... Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.
As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.
Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.
... You are treading on very dangerous ground here. That means I can call the police on you and claim to be your father and tell them that you pose a threat to yourself and others. The police can then, go to your door and see if you are okay or not. If you say you are okay, they could still enter your home and conduct a search of the premises without a bench issued search warrant. That is a pretty scary proposition. ... See the timeline I posted. They had 10 minutes between the time the e-mails were sent, received and read by the therapist, who contacted the mother, who contacted the father... then, called 9-1-1. That is asking alot of local law enforcement.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
in response to why can't we register and license with periodic health screenings...my guess would be money. that's a whole lot of money you're talking about to do that, but I know where you guys are coming from. how easy it is to be able to legally and continually drive a car is very, very disturbing.
oh wanted to add too, in all this gun talk, let's not forget about the three people stabbed to death. I know they don't make it to the pedestal for most of you, but they were people too.
Post edited by goingtoverona on
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
Trust me on this one, this happens all the time. Laws should be changed to make the emergency mental health hold process easier and faster, because the safety net you think is out there, is not. People in full psychosis pass these 10-20 minute police checks ALL THE TIME, this is why they need to be detained and evaluated by mental health professionals. The police COULD have had him taken him on a emergency evaluation hold. The guy convinced them he was not dangerous.
Who would fight such changes to make the hold process easier? The gun lobby, of course! They just did here in CO (rant above in thread, sorry for the re-rant). They worried that by making the hold process slightly easier, more people (being evaluated for a mental health crisis, remember) would be stopped from buying guns by NCIS instant checks - god forbid. Let's be sure people in a manic rage or psychotic episode (who still pass these police checks, I'm not kidding you) don't get held and evaluated, so they don't lose their right to buy all the guns and ammo they want and need.
in response to why can't we register and license with periodic health screenings...my guess would be money. that's a whole lot of money you're talking about to do that, but I know where you guys are coming from. how easy it is to be able to legally and continually drive a car is very, very disturbing.
Those costs should be passed along to the gun owner. Same way you pay to have your car registered.
Comments
As to guy avoiding certain places due to gun retaliation, well that's conjecture from one sided view.
Rather not have the average gun toting joe becoming my protector.
I'll retain the right to defend my family and myself.
Have a good day.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
a beautiful post
i have been told to read bukowski & i have a very little bit but never dove into his stuff. writing is my thing moreso than reading as i want my own... (way)
that & my attention span is that of a piece of worn down chalk nearly ungraspable
this is the key elliot shoulda picked up... poetry & finding his center
i will reinforce your words:
brokedown car, slim wallet, holes in shoes, a otherwise empty refrigerator but for the two year old jar of mayonnaise i forgot was rotting there
i am a poor ass dude who worships women as goddesses
therefore poetry is birthed as are wet
i am kissed, warmed & thrilled
hell, my barbaric nature is even accepted most of the time
i am grateful as i am
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
1. Situations like Elliot Rogers....deranged killer, etc.
2. Situations where innocent people get shot/killed by accident. My news feed on facebook has almost daily posts where someone is shot because of accident. Yesterday there was a story about a lady who got shot in Walmart because some moron dropped his loaded weapon...supposedly just barely missed her infant. Today I see where a 6 year old killed his Grandpa at a family picnic because a moron left an assault rifle sitting out.
These stories will become very frequent....they will result in massive changes to our gun laws.
Keep in mind that the reason our gun laws will become more stringent is directly related to our gun laws (currently) becoming more relaxed.
I own a gun...I have a lifetime carry permit....so there
I wonder if the really "pro gun" people really give any thought to what they support. Take the guy who killed all of those people in the movie theatre a few years ago. In all of the confusion in that theatre...do you really picture yourself pulling out your gun and being the hero? It's much more likely that you would pull out your gun and shoot an innocent person in the melee taking place during a shooting like that.
I can't help but picture a scene like that where several people pull out guns and then the confusion becomes "who is the actual shooter?" Especially when the police arrive.....
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.
Hail, Hail!!!
And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...
Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Brilliant!!!
Why can't we just do that?
Hail, Hail!!!
The thing I don't understand... how is putting more bullets in the air... coming from different directions... with terrified people running in several directions... make us safer?
And how do we know who is the initial shooter, if there are a bunch of people shooting? Wouldn't it add to the confusion?
...
I mean, let's say I have a concealed weapon and a leagal permit to carry it. I see the initial shots and can correctly identify the shooter. I draw my weapon an fire in his direction.
Meanwhile... Mr. Gunrights, who also has a legal permit to carry a weapon, hears the shots (from both guns) and runs towards them hoping to stop the shooting. He rounds the corner and sees my... and put 3 rounds into me.
How to you tell who is the bad guy with a gun... from the good guy with a gun?
Hail, Hail!!!
As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Cops can't apprehend or detain someone because a therapist suggests they should.
That said, laws should be changed to that they CAN detain him for questioning for, say, 24 hours if his therapist says he's a danger to others. I mean, the government can apparently monitor everything we do online.... cops can't be allowed to monitor computer use of someone whose therapist says is a danger to the public? That's ridiculous.
Godfather.
How do people carrying a concealed weapon STOP a mass shooting?
...
And if you check the facts... the e-mails were sent at 9:17 P.M. and the shooting began at 9:27. That is 10 minutes for the recipients of the emails to open them and read them. That is assuming that they read the messages as soon as they came in.
In that time, Rodger's therapist caled the mother to inform her that she needed to read the e-mail. When she did, she contacted the father and dialed 9-1-1 as they drover towards Santa Barbara. The therapist is forbidden by law to contact police regarding a patient. A counselor opened the email at 10:00 and called police minutes later, but it was too late.
So, you blame the police because they could not track down the whereabouts of a specific individual in a college community on a Friday night within the maximum of 10 minutes (if they even had 10 minutes because the mother called the father first, then dialed 9-1-1). In order for them to do something you suggest... stopping a specific individual in a matter of minutes... they would need everyone to have a GPS transponder on their body so each individula can be monitored by the police and deploy some sort of airborne response.
So... do you want a GPS transponder that police can readily identify you on your body at all times? I don't.
Hail, Hail!!!
Maybe they fucked up....but it doesn't see like we have enough info to lay blame on them for this one.
You are treading on very dangerous ground here.
That means I can call the police on you and claim to be your father and tell them that you pose a threat to yourself and others.
The police can then, go to your door and see if you are okay or not. If you say you are okay, they could still enter your home and conduct a search of the premises without a bench issued search warrant.
That is a pretty scary proposition.
...
See the timeline I posted. They had 10 minutes between the time the e-mails were sent, received and read by the therapist, who contacted the mother, who contacted the father... then, called 9-1-1.
That is asking alot of local law enforcement.
Hail, Hail!!!
oh wanted to add too, in all this gun talk, let's not forget about the three people stabbed to death. I know they don't make it to the pedestal for most of you, but they were people too.
Who would fight such changes to make the hold process easier? The gun lobby, of course! They just did here in CO (rant above in thread, sorry for the re-rant). They worried that by making the hold process slightly easier, more people (being evaluated for a mental health crisis, remember) would be stopped from buying guns by NCIS instant checks - god forbid. Let's be sure people in a manic rage or psychotic episode (who still pass these police checks, I'm not kidding you) don't get held and evaluated, so they don't lose their right to buy all the guns and ammo they want and need.
Those costs should be passed along to the gun owner. Same way you pay to have your car registered.