@cosmo, oh yeah man for sure I agree we should keep guns out of the hands of wackos. the question is, how do we do that? the problem is no one has the answer but everyone thinks they have the answer. Chicago is a prime example that strict gun laws don't mean shit, yet the most often "cure" for gun violence, is tighter gun laws. with every law passed, with every new restriction, there is still violence. that's why we can't look back at the Clinton era assault rifle and high cap mag ban and say holy shit guys, look at the difference in violence when the ban existed.
you can enact every single type of gun legislation imaginable just short of total prohibition, and there will still be gun violence. that being said, if anyone can come up with a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals while not leaving me(the average shooter) with only bb guns and black powder long rifles to choose from, I am 100 percent for it.
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
@cosmo, oh yeah man for sure I agree we should keep guns out of the hands of wackos. the question is, how do we do that? the problem is no one has the answer but everyone thinks they have the answer. Chicago is a prime example that strict gun laws don't mean shit, yet the most often "cure" for gun violence, is tighter gun laws. with every law passed, with every new restriction, there is still violence. that's why we can't look back at the Clinton era assault rifle and high cap mag ban and say holy shit guys, look at the difference in violence when the ban existed.
I don't know if Chicago is a great example. Word on the street is the gangs get the guns from outside of Chicago to get around the tough gun laws. I suppose if those same laws applied everywhere in the US it might be a lot harder for them to get their hands on them, given that they would have to cross a border. But that is just a guess.
I know the links might be fucked up for the Denver Post May 2 article I posted above, sorry, but basically the NRA and the even more extreme Rocky Mountain Gun Owners inserted themselves into a non-gun issue. They lobbied against a bill which would have made the civil commitment process in a mental health crisis in CO a tiny bit easier. Why? Because it might have meant more people in a mental health crisis situation would have their access to guns restricted. So I feel like in a way, I can put a little blame with the NRA when I read a story like the Elliot Rodger's one.
I agree that's messed up but I have a question, what else did the bill have in it ? I mean there is always another ...thing added to the package that the gun rights groups don't want like an increase in sales tax on a guns or amo or another restriction of some sort or something like that but if that's not the case I would be very disapointed in them.
Godfather.
I'll find out what the bill all included and fill you in tomorrow, but as far as I know there was nothing at all about guns in it. Sad but true I almost missed my son's whole continuation thing today because of this thread. I was very, very late
@dignin, fair enough. that's pretty much equivalent to mexico. personally I doubt if the laws changed in the outlying states that much would change other than the price would bump up a little bit. falls into the where there's a will there's a way unfortunately. chicagos drug trade is very lucrative, gotta protect that shit.
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
@cosmo, oh yeah man for sure I agree we should keep guns out of the hands of wackos. the question is, how do we do that? the problem is no one has the answer but everyone thinks they have the answer. Chicago is a prime example that strict gun laws don't mean shit, yet the most often "cure" for gun violence, is tighter gun laws. with every law passed, with every new restriction, there is still violence. that's why we can't look back at the Clinton era assault rifle and high cap mag ban and say holy shit guys, look at the difference in violence when the ban existed.
you can enact every single type of gun legislation imaginable just short of total prohibition, and there will still be gun violence. that being said, if anyone can come up with a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals while not leaving me(the average shooter) with only bb guns and black powder long rifles to choose from, I am 100 percent for it.
... I wish I had an answer... but, i'm the first to admit, i don't. It is a tough call, balancing Constitutional rights versus public safety. One thing I do know... North Dakota is not like California. I don't care about gun laws in North Dakota... i just want North Dakota to stay out of California's gun law debates. We have places like Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco and Sacremento to deal with that are nothing like the cities in North Dakota. If North Dakota wants me to stay out of their gun laws... then, they should stay the fuck out of mine. If people in rural North Dakota want to own 100 AR-15s to fend off the government... fine. I just don't want that same free access given to those North Dakotans to apply to the Crips and Bloods in South Central Los Angeles. From what I understand, Chicago has a very servere gang problem, right? They probably need to focus on that problem along with their gun legislation. The entire state of Illinois does not have gun violence problem, does it? Even the city of Chicago, i'll bet there are scary parts of the city and there are nice parts of the city. Concentrate on the scary parts, first. Find out what the problems are and see if they can be fixed. They can start by coming down really hard on gun law violators... regardless of age, race or economic status. figure out where the illegal guns are coming from and hammer the sources... hard. At least... TRY to do something because doing nothing has proven to be a failure.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
@cosmo, oh yeah man for sure I agree we should keep guns out of the hands of wackos. the question is, how do we do that? the problem is no one has the answer but everyone thinks they have the answer. Chicago is a prime example that strict gun laws don't mean shit, yet the most often "cure" for gun violence, is tighter gun laws. with every law passed, with every new restriction, there is still violence. that's why we can't look back at the Clinton era assault rifle and high cap mag ban and say holy shit guys, look at the difference in violence when the ban existed.
I don't know if Chicago is a great example. Word on the street is the gangs get the guns from outside of Chicago to get around the tough gun laws. I suppose if those same laws applied everywhere in the US it might be a lot harder for them to get their hands on them, given that they would have to cross a border. But that is just a guess.
Ending the prohibition of drugs would actually do the most to stop gun violence among gangs.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I agree with goingtoverona and it's evolution baby's posts about the real issue of mental health. Here the parents knew how sick their son was and how much of a threat he was posing and the police overlooked it. I teach extremely disturbed teenagers and we do not put money into helping these people. We just put a band aide on their issues and send them on their way. There is no money put into mental health. Hands down, I can name several of my students who will seriously hurt someone someday. I have voiced these concerns over and over, but they are discharged from our facility because the health insurance only covers the cost for a certain period. It does not matter if they are healthy or not. We put money into the wrong things in society not mental health or education. Rant over.
i'd add to that by saying in addition to doing nothing, everything we've done, has been a failure. and I can tell you what the problems are, or the main ones at least, poverty and drug prohibition.
... I agree. Things we've done have been ineffective. Probably because there are too many loopholes in our solutions. For example, we require background checks be made by licensed gun dealers. But, do nothing about private party sales. And that we need to focus on poverty.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I agree with goingtoverona and it's evolution baby's posts about the real issue of mental health. Here the parents knew how sick their son was and how much of a threat he was posing and the police overlooked it. I teach extremely disturbed teenagers and we do not put money into helping these people. We just put a band aide on their issues and send them on their way. There is no money put into mental health. Hands down, I can name several of my students who will seriously hurt someone someday. I have voiced these concerns over and over, but they are discharged from our facility because the health insurance only covers the cost for a certain period. It does not matter if they are healthy or not. We put money into the wrong things in society not mental health or education. Rant over.
... I think the problem isn't mental health... or guns. It is guns in the hands of the mentally unstable individuals in out midst. If we can figure out how to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people... without violating our Constitution... that would help. But, that's the hard part because the constituition grants rights to all of us... including the crazy people.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
@cosmo, oh yeah man for sure I agree we should keep guns out of the hands of wackos. the question is, how do we do that? the problem is no one has the answer but everyone thinks they have the answer. Chicago is a prime example that strict gun laws don't mean shit, yet the most often "cure" for gun violence, is tighter gun laws. with every law passed, with every new restriction, there is still violence. that's why we can't look back at the Clinton era assault rifle and high cap mag ban and say holy shit guys, look at the difference in violence when the ban existed.
I don't know if Chicago is a great example. Word on the street is the gangs get the guns from outside of Chicago to get around the tough gun laws. I suppose if those same laws applied everywhere in the US it might be a lot harder for them to get their hands on them, given that they would have to cross a border. But that is just a guess.
Word on the street? Ok.
Word on the street is they get the guns from the Mexican drug cartels who got the guns from the Obama administration through Fast and Furious.
One thing I do know... North Dakota is not like California. I don't care about gun laws in North Dakota... i just want North Dakota to stay out of California's gun law debates. We have places like Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco and Sacremento to deal with that are nothing like the cities in North Dakota. If North Dakota wants me to stay out of their gun laws... then, they should stay the fuck out of mine. If people in rural North Dakota want to own 100 AR-15s to fend off the government... fine. I just don't want that same free access given to those North Dakotans to apply to the Crips and Bloods in South Central Los Angeles. From what I understand, Chicago has a very servere gang problem, right? They probably need to focus on that problem along with their gun legislation. The entire state of Illinois does not have gun violence problem, does it? Even the city of Chicago, i'll bet there are scary parts of the city and there are nice parts of the city. Concentrate on the scary parts, first. Find out what the problems are and see if they can be fixed. They can start by coming down really hard on gun law violators... regardless of age, race or economic status. figure out where the illegal guns are coming from and hammer the sources... hard. At least... TRY to do something because doing nothing has proven to be a failure.
Wow, we actually agree. Gun laws are states rights issues and the Feds should stay out of it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
@cosmo, oh yeah man for sure I agree we should keep guns out of the hands of wackos. the question is, how do we do that? the problem is no one has the answer but everyone thinks they have the answer. Chicago is a prime example that strict gun laws don't mean shit, yet the most often "cure" for gun violence, is tighter gun laws. with every law passed, with every new restriction, there is still violence. that's why we can't look back at the Clinton era assault rifle and high cap mag ban and say holy shit guys, look at the difference in violence when the ban existed.
I don't know if Chicago is a great example. Word on the street is the gangs get the guns from outside of Chicago to get around the tough gun laws. I suppose if those same laws applied everywhere in the US it might be a lot harder for them to get their hands on them, given that they would have to cross a border. But that is just a guess.
Ending the prohibition of drugs would actually do the most to stop gun violence among gangs.
Maybe, but there seems to be some real dark underlining problems in some areas of Chicago that goes deeper than drugs. Life there has gone off the rails.
This American Life did a great 2 part on going to high schools in one of those areas. Very worth a listen when anyone has the time.
@cosmo, oh yeah man for sure I agree we should keep guns out of the hands of wackos. the question is, how do we do that? the problem is no one has the answer but everyone thinks they have the answer. Chicago is a prime example that strict gun laws don't mean shit, yet the most often "cure" for gun violence, is tighter gun laws. with every law passed, with every new restriction, there is still violence. that's why we can't look back at the Clinton era assault rifle and high cap mag ban and say holy shit guys, look at the difference in violence when the ban existed.
I don't know if Chicago is a great example. Word on the street is the gangs get the guns from outside of Chicago to get around the tough gun laws. I suppose if those same laws applied everywhere in the US it might be a lot harder for them to get their hands on them, given that they would have to cross a border. But that is just a guess.
Word on the street? Ok.
Word on the street is they get the guns from the Mexican drug cartels who got the guns from the Obama administration through Fast and Furious.
Just a turn of phrase. There are a lot of articles about how the guns are brought into the city.
Never heard of the Fast and Furious connection, but it doesn't surprise me that you can bring this back to being Obamas fault.
Wow, we actually agree. Gun laws are states rights issues and the Feds should stay out of it.
... I totally understand that if you live out in the rural parts of our country, you need firearms for protection because there are not going to be police forces out there and there are other wild animals that will cross your paths on a daily basis. We don't see too many wolf packs here in Long Beach, California. The gun laws should be different here, in large metropolitan cities than in towns with populations in the 3 digit range. If people out in the boondocks want to store up an arsenal... let them. But, i do not want my neighbor across the street to be able to stockpile mass quantities of weapons and ammo. If he wants to stockpile that shit... he is free to move to Idaho, where it is allowed. ... The Feds would need to still oversee interstate gun traffic.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
founded by violence, expanded by violence, violence as entertainment. Violence is your birthright as an American. embrace it.
Freedom was gained by blood shed. Freedom REQUIRES blood payments on a regular basis. Freedom is a motherfucker, aint it?
... Ever wonder... Why is it that when the movie, 'The Godfather' comes across the television... they edit out the part where Michael is in Italy on his honeymoon because his young bride is topless... but, it is okay to show his brother, Sonny getting machine gunned at the toll booth... in slow motion? ... It's like... we love violence.. but hate tits. ... Shouldn't it be the other way around? What the fuck is wrong with us?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
you will be safer in rural america than you will be in, let's say, long beach. it's only a fact. put large numbers of ppl crammed together & the result is not pretty. with a 2010 population of 467,892 people, i will be more than thrilled to be in rural america w/out a gun.
i believe if i lived in a city i would be having a loaded shotgun nearby & this is how many millions of ppl think
"We don't see too many wolf packs here in Long Beach, California." - cosmo
maybe not actuall wolves but believe me, you have wolf packs many times more nasty than any timber wolves i've ever heard of
you will be safer in rural america than you will be in, let's say, long beach. it's only a fact. put large numbers of ppl crammed together & the result is not pretty. with a 2010 population of 467,892 people, i will be more than thrilled to be in rural america w/out a gun.
i believe if i lived in a city i would be having a loaded shotgun nearby & this is how many millions of ppl think
"We don't see too many wolf packs here in Long Beach, California." - cosmo
maybe not actuall wolves but believe me, you have wolf packs many times more nasty than any timber wolves i've ever heard of
... You're right. The more people, the greater the chance of something happening to you at the hands of another human. But... I'll take that risk because i like living in the city. I just think there's more stuff tyhat I like going on over here. But, to each, their own. ... My point is... rural vs. metropolitan regions have different requirements. That's why if Los Angeles County wants to try to curtail the number of guns out here... we don't need NRA types coming in from Utah, Montana and Idaho to put their two cents in how we are trying to solve our problems. We don't go over to their state to influence their laws... they need to quit coming over here, trying to influence ours.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
To answer what I hope was a genuine question, no...I haven't lived in a slum but have spent a bit of time in areas some would deem to be.
Perception isn't always reality.
You mention Compton - used to be a great, authentic deli there years ago (edit - used to be a great AREA years ago), and we'd drive from our safe little home to them for lunch every month or so with my dad (he loved speaking German with his fellow countryman who owned the place), and my sister and her husband.
When we started seeing more and more gang members along the way - not just driving in traffic with them, mind you - also getting the along-side-cruises from boys too young to be acting so tough, Dad figured it wasn't worth it.
elliot was one entitled little shit. pampered? oh hell no, not elliot. did ya see the video where he's wearing his high end shades & talking about his awesome bmw & how much a gentleman he is? who is flipping the bill for his schooling? oh that's right, the same ppl who gave him the bmw & $300+ sunglasses
dude is...... dude was a little weird fucker
true people can be mean but this dude must of had like zero game or something to have not one female ever even look at him.
spoiled little shit shoulda earned a few blisters, that right there makes women insane for even the goofiest neanderthal. man up, fucker!
I don't know, I'm not sure it was about game (though I don't know too much about that, never been much into that aspect of people).
When he dubbed himself "magnificent" in one of his videos, it kind of sealed the deal that the images of who he wanted to be, who he was, and who he was treated as were way off the mark.
Where does that come from?
Really fucking sad. I mean, we can all pontificate all we want but at the end of last Friday, the lives of some young people ended needlessly because of him.
elliot was one entitled little shit. pampered? oh hell no, not elliot. did ya see the video where he's wearing his high end shades & talking about his awesome bmw & how much a gentleman he is? who is flipping the bill for his schooling? oh that's right, the same ppl who gave him the bmw & $300+ sunglasses
dude is...... dude was a little weird fucker
true people can be mean but this dude must of had like zero game or something to have not one female ever even look at him.
spoiled little shit shoulda earned a few blisters, that right there makes women insane for even the goofiest neanderthal. man up, fucker!
Right? He should have seen the Jetta I drove back in the day. Talk about no game . . . . . . Still, I was god-damned happy to have the thing.
And I'll say this - if his odd vibe were as strong in person as it's been watching bits here and there online, no wonder women avoided him. Who would subject themselves to that?
Comments
you can enact every single type of gun legislation imaginable just short of total prohibition, and there will still be gun violence. that being said, if anyone can come up with a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals while not leaving me(the average shooter) with only bb guns and black powder long rifles to choose from, I am 100 percent for it.
I wish I had an answer... but, i'm the first to admit, i don't. It is a tough call, balancing Constitutional rights versus public safety.
One thing I do know... North Dakota is not like California. I don't care about gun laws in North Dakota... i just want North Dakota to stay out of California's gun law debates. We have places like Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco and Sacremento to deal with that are nothing like the cities in North Dakota. If North Dakota wants me to stay out of their gun laws... then, they should stay the fuck out of mine. If people in rural North Dakota want to own 100 AR-15s to fend off the government... fine. I just don't want that same free access given to those North Dakotans to apply to the Crips and Bloods in South Central Los Angeles.
From what I understand, Chicago has a very servere gang problem, right? They probably need to focus on that problem along with their gun legislation. The entire state of Illinois does not have gun violence problem, does it? Even the city of Chicago, i'll bet there are scary parts of the city and there are nice parts of the city. Concentrate on the scary parts, first. Find out what the problems are and see if they can be fixed.
They can start by coming down really hard on gun law violators... regardless of age, race or economic status. figure out where the illegal guns are coming from and hammer the sources... hard. At least... TRY to do something because doing nothing has proven to be a failure.
Hail, Hail!!!
and I can tell you what the problems are, or the main ones at least, poverty and drug prohibition.
I agree. Things we've done have been ineffective. Probably because there are too many loopholes in our solutions. For example, we require background checks be made by licensed gun dealers. But, do nothing about private party sales.
And that we need to focus on poverty.
Hail, Hail!!!
I think the problem isn't mental health... or guns. It is guns in the hands of the mentally unstable individuals in out midst.
If we can figure out how to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people... without violating our Constitution... that would help. But, that's the hard part because the constituition grants rights to all of us... including the crazy people.
Hail, Hail!!!
I would argue many clinically sane humans can't handle gun ownership. Proper storage, emotions etc.
So until we stem the manufacture and distribution of guns,there is nothing that will change.
Word on the street? Ok.
Word on the street is they get the guns from the Mexican drug cartels who got the guns from the Obama administration through Fast and Furious.
Wow, we actually agree. Gun laws are states rights issues and the Feds should stay out of it.
Freedom was gained by blood shed. Freedom REQUIRES blood payments on a regular basis. Freedom is a motherfucker, aint it?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
This American Life did a great 2 part on going to high schools in one of those areas. Very worth a listen when anyone has the time.
part 1 http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/487/harper-high-school-part-one
part 2 http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/488/harper-high-school-part-two
Never heard of the Fast and Furious connection, but it doesn't surprise me that you can bring this back to being Obamas fault.
I totally understand that if you live out in the rural parts of our country, you need firearms for protection because there are not going to be police forces out there and there are other wild animals that will cross your paths on a daily basis.
We don't see too many wolf packs here in Long Beach, California. The gun laws should be different here, in large metropolitan cities than in towns with populations in the 3 digit range. If people out in the boondocks want to store up an arsenal... let them. But, i do not want my neighbor across the street to be able to stockpile mass quantities of weapons and ammo. If he wants to stockpile that shit... he is free to move to Idaho, where it is allowed.
...
The Feds would need to still oversee interstate gun traffic.
Hail, Hail!!!
Ever wonder... Why is it that when the movie, 'The Godfather' comes across the television... they edit out the part where Michael is in Italy on his honeymoon because his young bride is topless... but, it is okay to show his brother, Sonny getting machine gunned at the toll booth... in slow motion?
...
It's like... we love violence.. but hate tits.
...
Shouldn't it be the other way around? What the fuck is wrong with us?
Hail, Hail!!!
Possibly that fear turns into hate, which begets violence.
(doesn't apply only to tits, either)
i believe if i lived in a city i would be having a loaded shotgun nearby & this is how many millions of ppl think
"We don't see too many wolf packs here in Long Beach, California." - cosmo
maybe not actuall wolves but believe me, you have wolf packs many times more nasty than any timber wolves i've ever heard of
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
For the most part, I've been safe...have felt safe and though eyes everwide-open, have lived as such too.
No need to be armed, even with all those with fangs out and about.
(some of us city-folk are pretty peaceful
You're right. The more people, the greater the chance of something happening to you at the hands of another human.
But... I'll take that risk because i like living in the city. I just think there's more stuff tyhat I like going on over here. But, to each, their own.
...
My point is... rural vs. metropolitan regions have different requirements. That's why if Los Angeles County wants to try to curtail the number of guns out here... we don't need NRA types coming in from Utah, Montana and Idaho to put their two cents in how we are trying to solve our problems. We don't go over to their state to influence their laws... they need to quit coming over here, trying to influence ours.
Hail, Hail!!!
ever lived in or hung out in the slum areas?
does long beach even have a ghetto? how far is compton...25 miles or so?
i'm moving into compton
yep that's what im a gonna do any day now
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
To answer what I hope was a genuine question, no...I haven't lived in a slum but have spent a bit of time in areas some would deem to be.
Perception isn't always reality.
You mention Compton - used to be a great, authentic deli there years ago (edit - used to be a great AREA years ago), and we'd drive from our safe little home to them for lunch every month or so with my dad (he loved speaking German with his fellow countryman who owned the place), and my sister and her husband.
When we started seeing more and more gang members along the way - not just driving in traffic with them, mind you - also getting the along-side-cruises from boys too young to be acting so tough, Dad figured it wasn't worth it.
who is flipping the bill for his schooling? oh that's right, the same ppl who gave him the bmw & $300+ sunglasses
dude is...... dude was a little weird fucker
true people can be mean but this dude must of had like zero game or something to have not one female ever even look at him.
spoiled little shit shoulda earned a few blisters, that right there makes women insane for even the goofiest neanderthal. man up, fucker!
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
When he dubbed himself "magnificent" in one of his videos, it kind of sealed the deal that the images of who he wanted to be, who he was, and who he was treated as were way off the mark.
Where does that come from?
Really fucking sad. I mean, we can all pontificate all we want but at the end of last Friday, the lives of some young people ended needlessly because of him.