his mental issues were never reported or put to record,had they been he would not have been able to buy those gun's and that is where the problem is, if his parents felt he had mental issues or even a teacher or a friend then there should be some way to have him..or anybody evaluated buy a doctor and from there he should have been banned from buying guns or anything related, a lot of people are on the anti gun kick but how many are willing to go as far as talk to police or a county offical abourt a family member or friend and recomend an evaluation ? we can't keep blaming the gun companys or the gun's if we arn't willing to take some sort of responisabilty ourselfs, it seems every time this happens there is a mental issue brought up after the shooting or killing and by then it is too late..why did these people and parents wait until the family member or friend or student cracked to say that this person had mental issues or displayed dangerous or threatining behavior ?
Godfather.
It was reported and he was able to buy the guns.
Nothing came of the family reaching out, and (legal?) parameters prevented him from being involuntarily put into a hospital or other type of mental health facility.
and not to be obnoxious on the gun thing, but honestly take a minute and read this GF. THIS is why people like me find at least partial blame in the gun lobby. This was a civil commitment bill, not a guns bill.
Maybe the answer is... 'Just another day in America. Business as usual.' Because that's what it is. We all know NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO CHANGE ANYTHING except the re-hashed rhetoric on cable television. Maybe, America just needs to accept the consequences for the choices she makes. As Americans, we apparently just need to accept unacceptable loss of life and the heartache left in its wake because we have cherish our free access to guns more than the lives of the lost. ... U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!!
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
As a Gaucho this tragedy hit really close to home. A few things you can't commit the atrocities he committed with just a knife so ABSOLUTELY this is at least partially a gun issue. If he some how purchased these guns legally with his mental state then we have problems.
If this was negligence on a the gun sellers part then the business needs to be shut down. California does have strict gun laws so maybe it's time to enforce the laws we have before adding new laws.
Mental health is the biggest issue here. It's time to stop fucking around and get these threats to society committed. We spend enough money on useless crap in our government we can make room for more spending on mental hospitals so these sick bastards are off our streets and not buying weapons.
his mental issues were never reported or put to record,had they been he would not have been able to buy those gun's and that is where the problem is, if his parents felt he had mental issues or even a teacher or a friend then there should be some way to have him..or anybody evaluated buy a doctor and from there he should have been banned from buying guns or anything related, a lot of people are on the anti gun kick but how many are willing to go as far as talk to police or a county offical abourt a family member or friend and recomend an evaluation ? we can't keep blaming the gun companys or the gun's if we arn't willing to take some sort of responisabilty ourselfs, it seems every time this happens there is a mental issue brought up after the shooting or killing and by then it is too late..why did these people and parents wait until the family member or friend or student cracked to say that this person had mental issues or displayed dangerous or threatining behavior ?
Godfather.
I'm guessing you haven't been there GF, because you have no idea how it works (doesn't work). If you think that family members can just call 911 and have the guys in white coats show up and take care of everything, I'm here to tell you it doesn't work that way. Mental facilities do not have beds. Back up plan - Hospital ERs - even with local family members there to physically get the person in, even when you call them from the other side of the country to tell them the background and the urgency, even when they assure you that they are equipped to handle a mental health emergency, they usually are not. They give the patient a shot of ativan to get them functional enough to walk out of there and release them with the recommendation they go for a full voluntary evaluation at a psych hospital. These people are able to "pass" repeated contact with police. Even if the system is working and you are able to get them involuntary commitment, it's usually 24 hours! If you are able to get them into psychiatrist's care, they can discontinue treatment without anyone in the family being notified (HIPPA). I went through months calling our family member's psychiatrist on the other side of the country who was not authorized to talk to me or anyone else in the family (patient-authorization required), but wanted input from the family. The entire process was unbelievable to me.
I'm not here to argue the guns thing with you (although my family member was able to get one EASILY during their psychosis without any of us knowing it). But to take what little is known now and blame the family is totally irresponsible. They saw this coming and I'm sure the outcome was their worst nightmare. The kid had been in therapy. If you knew how mental health emergencies are typically handled in the US (not in theory but in reality) I honestly don't think you would be blaming his family.
I didn't mean to sound like I'm attacking mental hosiptals or patients,I was thinking if these things were put into the same info/database that police have filed on people then it would come up on a back ground check and stopping the sale of a gun to that person, I don't have all the answers but I have an idea to help and as common as the idea is I am suprised it has not been used but I'm sure that there are lots of loop holes and gray areas that would need to be gone over.
and not to be obnoxious on the gun thing, but honestly take a minute and read this GF. THIS is why people like me find at least partial blame in the gun lobby. This was a civil commitment bill, not a guns bill.
Maybe the answer is... 'Just another day in America. Business as usual.' Because that's what it is. We all know NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO CHANGE ANYTHING except the re-hashed rhetoric on cable television. Maybe, America just needs to accept the consequences for the choices she makes. As Americans, we apparently just need to accept unacceptable loss of life and the heartache left in its wake because we have cherish our free access to guns more than the lives of the lost. ... U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!!
Oh, I dunno. That sounds like a dangerous attitude. The USA has been known to confront problems and do things to help fix them. Sometimes it takes a long time for it to happen, but I don't think there is any reason to assume helpful changes will NEVER happen.... I mean, maybe not. But maybe! Hopefully. Of course they definitely won't if people just accept what is, accept things as they are, and stop fighting for progress and positive change.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
A psychotic who, because he couldn't find a girlfriend, goes on a premeditated murder spree, using knives, a car, and guns and it's the NRA's fault. Got it.
A psychotic who, because he couldn't find a girlfriend, goes on a premeditated murder spree, using knives, a car, and guns and it's the NRA's fault. Got it.
Is that what you're reading here???? 8-}
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It should be very difficult to incarcerate an individual for mental health issues.
Well it should be impossible to incarcerate anyone who hasn't broken the law.
I never said incarcerate anyone but if there is a police file on a persons mental issues then that should come up on a back ground check....but then again there are issues with that because people will complain about a shrink wrap in their jacket.
A psychotic who, because he couldn't find a girlfriend, goes on a premeditated murder spree, using knives, a car, and guns and it's the NRA's fault. Got it.
A psychotic who, because he couldn't find a girlfriend, goes on a premeditated murder spree, using knives, a car, and guns and it's the NRA's fault. Got it.
... It is the NRA's stance that the psychotic who couldn't find a girlfriend and blames it on the girls should be able to get whatever gun he wants in whatever quantity he can afford. To the NRA and gun advocates... Elliot Rodger was a law abiding gun owner until last Friday.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
A psychotic who, because he couldn't find a girlfriend, goes on a premeditated murder spree, using knives, a car, and guns and it's the NRA's fault. Got it.
... It is the NRA's stance that the psychotic who couldn't find a girlfriend and blames it on the girls should be able to get whatever gun he wants in whatever quantity he can afford. To the NRA and gun advocates... Elliot Rodger was a law abiding gun owner until last Friday.
+1. (Wanted to give you the clapping hands, but couldn't find from my phone)
Maybe the answer is... 'Just another day in America. Business as usual.' Because that's what it is. We all know NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO CHANGE ANYTHING except the re-hashed rhetoric on cable television. Maybe, America just needs to accept the consequences for the choices she makes. As Americans, we apparently just need to accept unacceptable loss of life and the heartache left in its wake because we have cherish our free access to guns more than the lives of the lost. ... U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!!
Oh, I dunno. That sounds like a dangerous attitude. The USA has been known to confront problems and do things to help fix them. Sometimes it takes a long time for it to happen, but I don't think there is any reason to assume helpful changes will NEVER happen.... I mean, maybe not. But maybe! Hopefully. Of course they definitely won't if people just accept what is, accept things as they are, and stop fighting for progress and positive change.
... It is an attitude that stems from the reality that nothing wil change. Us Americans... we love our guns. As long as we believe that... guns = Freedom... guns = Patriotism... guns = Liberty... the occasional deadly shooting rampages will always, simply be a side effect of Freedom, Patriotism and Liberty. Maybe it is time we embrace and accept the death of bystanders as a defining character trait of what is means to be an American.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
actually that's not entirely true cosmo, the NRA doesn't want anyone to have those new smart guns that are being invented with the bracelets or watch. they think those are a threat to the second amendment, but that's a different debate I think.
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
I know the links might be fucked up for the Denver Post May 2 article I posted above, sorry, but basically the NRA and the even more extreme Rocky Mountain Gun Owners inserted themselves into a non-gun issue. They lobbied against a bill which would have made the civil commitment process in a mental health crisis in CO a tiny bit easier. Why? Because it might have meant more people in a mental health crisis situation would have their access to guns restricted. So I feel like in a way, I can put a little blame with the NRA when I read a story like the Elliot Rodger's one.
Maybe the answer is... 'Just another day in America. Business as usual.' Because that's what it is. We all know NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO CHANGE ANYTHING except the re-hashed rhetoric on cable television. Maybe, America just needs to accept the consequences for the choices she makes. As Americans, we apparently just need to accept unacceptable loss of life and the heartache left in its wake because we have cherish our free access to guns more than the lives of the lost. ... U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!!
Oh, I dunno. That sounds like a dangerous attitude. The USA has been known to confront problems and do things to help fix them. Sometimes it takes a long time for it to happen, but I don't think there is any reason to assume helpful changes will NEVER happen.... I mean, maybe not. But maybe! Hopefully. Of course they definitely won't if people just accept what is, accept things as they are, and stop fighting for progress and positive change.
... It is an attitude that stems from the reality that nothing wil change. Us Americans... we love our guns. As long as we believe that... guns = Freedom... guns = Patriotism... guns = Liberty... the occasional deadly shooting rampages will always, simply be a side effect of Freedom, Patriotism and Liberty. Maybe it is time we embrace and accept the death of bystanders as a defining character trait of what is means to be an American.
A lot can change, though, as older generations die off and their more ridiculous and outdated viewpoints slowly fade away as the world changes. Not saying it won't take a while, but I think it is entirely possible that it will happen eventually, as long as there is help from vocal opposition. It's not going to happen all on its own spontaneously, which is why I think it's important that people keep at it and don't become complacent even when it seems futile at times.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Maybe the answer is... 'Just another day in America. Business as usual.' Because that's what it is. We all know NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO CHANGE ANYTHING except the re-hashed rhetoric on cable television. Maybe, America just needs to accept the consequences for the choices she makes. As Americans, we apparently just need to accept unacceptable loss of life and the heartache left in its wake because we have cherish our free access to guns more than the lives of the lost. ... U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!!
Oh, I dunno. That sounds like a dangerous attitude. The USA has been known to confront problems and do things to help fix them. Sometimes it takes a long time for it to happen, but I don't think there is any reason to assume helpful changes will NEVER happen.... I mean, maybe not. But maybe! Hopefully. Of course they definitely won't if people just accept what is, accept things as they are, and stop fighting for progress and positive change.
... It is an attitude that stems from the reality that nothing wil change. Us Americans... we love our guns. As long as we believe that... guns = Freedom... guns = Patriotism... guns = Liberty... the occasional deadly shooting rampages will always, simply be a side effect of Freedom, Patriotism and Liberty. Maybe it is time we embrace and accept the death of bystanders as a defining character trait of what is means to be an American.
A lot can change, though, as older generations die off and their more ridiculous and outdated viewpoints slowly fade away as the world changes. Not saying it won't take a while, but I think it is entirely possible that it will happen eventually, as long as there is help from vocal opposition. It's not going to happen all on its own spontaneously, which is why I think it's important that people keep at it and don't become complacent even when it seems futile at times.
... America is never going to have a shortage of people who truely believe that the U.N. White Helmets are going to come in and takeover after the population is exposed to mind altering chemicals from black helicopters and contrails of doom... and the initial step in this is the restriction of access to guns and the registration of firearms so the U.N. troops can read the secret codes on the backs of the freeway signs to know which houses to storm and take away all of the guns. Remember, these are the SAME people who believe that if the Jews living in the Berlin ghettos were armed... then, places like Auschwitz would have never come to pass... ignoring the fact that the Nazis had a uniformed, regulated army with tanks and airplanes and it took the united armies of the U.S., Great Britian, Russia, Canada and just about every other country in the wolrd to defeat them... and it took them 4 years to accomplish it. That belief will NEVER disappear.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Maybe the answer is... 'Just another day in America. Business as usual.' Because that's what it is. We all know NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO CHANGE ANYTHING except the re-hashed rhetoric on cable television. Maybe, America just needs to accept the consequences for the choices she makes. As Americans, we apparently just need to accept unacceptable loss of life and the heartache left in its wake because we have cherish our free access to guns more than the lives of the lost. ... U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!!
Oh, I dunno. That sounds like a dangerous attitude. The USA has been known to confront problems and do things to help fix them. Sometimes it takes a long time for it to happen, but I don't think there is any reason to assume helpful changes will NEVER happen.... I mean, maybe not. But maybe! Hopefully. Of course they definitely won't if people just accept what is, accept things as they are, and stop fighting for progress and positive change.
... It is an attitude that stems from the reality that nothing wil change. Us Americans... we love our guns. As long as we believe that... guns = Freedom... guns = Patriotism... guns = Liberty... the occasional deadly shooting rampages will always, simply be a side effect of Freedom, Patriotism and Liberty. Maybe it is time we embrace and accept the death of bystanders as a defining character trait of what is means to be an American.
A lot can change, though, as older generations die off and their more ridiculous and outdated viewpoints slowly fade away as the world changes. Not saying it won't take a while, but I think it is entirely possible that it will happen eventually, as long as there is help from vocal opposition. It's not going to happen all on its own spontaneously, which is why I think it's important that people keep at it and don't become complacent even when it seems futile at times.
... America is never going to have a shortage of people who truely believe that the U.N. White Helmets are going to come in and takeover after the population is exposed to mind altering chemicals from black helicopters and contrails of doom... and the initial step in this is the restriction of access to guns and the registration of firearms so the U.N. troops can read the secret codes on the backs of the freeway signs to know which houses to storm and take away all of the guns. Remember, these are the SAME people who believe that if the Jews living in the Berlin ghettos were armed... then, places like Auschwitz would have never come to pass... ignoring the fact that the Nazis had a uniformed, regulated army with tanks and airplanes and it took the united armies of the U.S., Great Britian, Russia, Canada and just about every other country in the wolrd to defeat them... and it took them 4 years to accomplish it. That belief will NEVER disappear.
A lot can happen.... I mean, the USA might not even exist in a few hundred years, who knows.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
there are those of us who just think guns are fun to shoot. shooting is a great hobby, it relieves stress, and it's a whole lot of fun. no government conspiracy from me, just like to shoot and should be allowed to.
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
I know the links might be fucked up for the Denver Post May 2 article I posted above, sorry, but basically the NRA and the even more extreme Rocky Mountain Gun Owners inserted themselves into a non-gun issue. They lobbied against a bill which would have made the civil commitment process in a mental health crisis in CO a tiny bit easier. Why? Because it might have meant more people in a mental health crisis situation would have their access to guns restricted. So I feel like in a way, I can put a little blame with the NRA when I read a story like the Elliot Rodger's one.
I agree that's messed up but I have a question, what else did the bill have in it ? I mean there is always another ...thing added to the package that the gun rights groups don't want like an increase in sales tax on a guns or amo or another restriction of some sort or something like that but if that's not the case I would be very disapointed in them.
actually that's not entirely true cosmo, the NRA doesn't want anyone to have those new smart guns that are being invented with the bracelets or watch. they think those are a threat to the second amendment, but that's a different debate I think.
oh i saw them on jon stewart last week. i thought what a brilliant idea.. if you must have guns have ones tha not just any random can pick up and shoot.. then i heard what the NRA thought of guns obviously smarter than them and i felt like punching myself in the head. idiots.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
@cate, hehe yeah I saw that as well. it's just amazing the NRA doesn't see the hypocrisy in being against the guns. like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum.NO!!!!!! THAT'S MY GLUE!!!!
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
@cate, hehe yeah I saw that as well. it's just amazing the NRA doesn't see the hypocrisy in being against the guns. like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum.NO!!!!!! THAT'S MY GLUE!!!!
well clearly theyre ok with the next person killed by a gun being their child. thats how i see any opposition for tighter gun laws... and just between you and me i think that is totally fucked up.... the price americans pay for the 2nd amendment is the loss of thousands and thousands of innocent lives. fuck that.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
there are those of us who just think guns are fun to shoot. shooting is a great hobby, it relieves stress, and it's a whole lot of fun. no government conspiracy from me, just like to shoot and should be allowed to.
.. And I agree with that and support gun ownership. I just think that you need to provide some sort of assurance that you are not a pycho that thinks it's all the women's fault for not throwing themselves at you so you can use that gun on all of them because they made you feel sorry for yourself. I think that we should at least TRY to keep the guns out of the hands of psychos that will shoot up the place because they feel slighted. And i think you may agree... just because everyone CAN own a gun... it doesn't mean everyone SHOULD own a gun, right? I don't mind guns being in the hands of the right people.. we should just attempt to keep them away from the wrong people.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Note: One of the questions that should be on the background check: Q: Do you have, or are you in the process of writing a manifesto? ... Anyone that has a manifesto... no gun for you!
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Note: One of the questions that should be on the background check: Q: Do you have, or in the process of writing a manifesto? ... Anyone that has a manifesto... no gun for you!
Lol. Yeah, manifestos are nothin' but trouble. :P
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Note: One of the questions that should be on the background check: Q: Do you have, or are you in the process of writing a manifesto? ... Anyone that has a manifesto... no gun for you!
there are those of us who just think guns are fun to shoot. shooting is a great hobby, it relieves stress, and it's a whole lot of fun. no government conspiracy from me, just like to shoot and should be allowed to.
.. And I agree with that and support gun ownership. I just think that you need to provide some sort of assurance that you are not a pycho that thinks it's all the women's fault for not throwing themselves at you so you can use that gun on all of them because they made you feel sorry for yourself. I think that we should at least TRY to keep the guns out of the hands of psychos that will shoot up the place because they feel slighted. And i think you may agree... just because everyone CAN own a gun... it doesn't mean everyone SHOULD own a gun, right? I don't mind guns being in the hands of the right people.. we should just attempt to keep them away from the wrong people.
Very Well Said Cosmo...There just needs to be More Regulation...not everyone Should be carrying a Gun...there Should be way Tougher Gun Laws so they don't fall in the Hands of the Wrong People...But having Said if they were to Ban them they would Need to ban them from everyone get rid of Guns all together maybe a Possibility.
Comments
Nothing came of the family reaching out, and (legal?) parameters prevented him from being involuntarily put into a hospital or other type of mental health facility.
http://www.conewsfeed.com/denver/nra-others-see-colorado-mental-health-bill-as-gun-grab/
Because that's what it is. We all know NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO CHANGE ANYTHING except the re-hashed rhetoric on cable television.
Maybe, America just needs to accept the consequences for the choices she makes. As Americans, we apparently just need to accept unacceptable loss of life and the heartache left in its wake because we have cherish our free access to guns more than the lives of the lost.
...
U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!! - U!!! S!!! A!!!
Hail, Hail!!!
Godfather.
Godfather.
Godfather.
It is the NRA's stance that the psychotic who couldn't find a girlfriend and blames it on the girls should be able to get whatever gun he wants in whatever quantity he can afford. To the NRA and gun advocates... Elliot Rodger was a law abiding gun owner until last Friday.
Hail, Hail!!!
It is an attitude that stems from the reality that nothing wil change. Us Americans... we love our guns. As long as we believe that... guns = Freedom... guns = Patriotism... guns = Liberty... the occasional deadly shooting rampages will always, simply be a side effect of Freedom, Patriotism and Liberty.
Maybe it is time we embrace and accept the death of bystanders as a defining character trait of what is means to be an American.
Hail, Hail!!!
America is never going to have a shortage of people who truely believe that the U.N. White Helmets are going to come in and takeover after the population is exposed to mind altering chemicals from black helicopters and contrails of doom... and the initial step in this is the restriction of access to guns and the registration of firearms so the U.N. troops can read the secret codes on the backs of the freeway signs to know which houses to storm and take away all of the guns.
Remember, these are the SAME people who believe that if the Jews living in the Berlin ghettos were armed... then, places like Auschwitz would have never come to pass... ignoring the fact that the Nazis had a uniformed, regulated army with tanks and airplanes and it took the united armies of the U.S., Great Britian, Russia, Canada and just about every other country in the wolrd to defeat them... and it took them 4 years to accomplish it.
That belief will NEVER disappear.
Hail, Hail!!!
Godfather.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
And I agree with that and support gun ownership.
I just think that you need to provide some sort of assurance that you are not a pycho that thinks it's all the women's fault for not throwing themselves at you so you can use that gun on all of them because they made you feel sorry for yourself.
I think that we should at least TRY to keep the guns out of the hands of psychos that will shoot up the place because they feel slighted. And i think you may agree... just because everyone CAN own a gun... it doesn't mean everyone SHOULD own a gun, right?
I don't mind guns being in the hands of the right people.. we should just attempt to keep them away from the wrong people.
Hail, Hail!!!
Q: Do you have, or are you in the process of writing a manifesto?
...
Anyone that has a manifesto... no gun for you!
Hail, Hail!!!